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Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)

humpback said:
Grahamburn said:
humpback said:
Grahamburn said:
Clearly I'm :confused: then.
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This is beyond ridiculous at this point, I've already explained how it can happen. They threw the ball approx. the same amount in 2011 as 2012 (9 more attempts in 2012), yet they ran the ball 61 more times in 2011 than 2012. As you can see, they ran 52 more plays in 2011, so if they have a similar season, Brees can throw the same amount, Thomas and Sproles can get the same amount (or even more), and Ingram can get more.

Before you respond, I'm not arguing that it's definitely going to happen that way, just saying that it's entirely possible. He doesn't have to take touches away from those guys in order to see an increase.
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Good start.
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:lmao:

Learn basic arithmetic yet?
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Laugh it up if it makes you feel better..

I get what you were trying to say as far as touches for Ingram, but it just isn't going to happen with these other two backs on the roster. They're simply more productive than he is.

 
Grahamburn said:
humpback said:
Grahamburn said:
humpback said:
Grahamburn said:
Clearly I'm :confused: then.
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This is beyond ridiculous at this point, I've already explained how it can happen. They threw the ball approx. the same amount in 2011 as 2012 (9 more attempts in 2012), yet they ran the ball 61 more times in 2011 than 2012. As you can see, they ran 52 more plays in 2011, so if they have a similar season, Brees can throw the same amount, Thomas and Sproles can get the same amount (or even more), and Ingram can get more.

Before you respond, I'm not arguing that it's definitely going to happen that way, just saying that it's entirely possible. He doesn't have to take touches away from those guys in order to see an increase.
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Good start.
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:lmao:

Learn basic arithmetic yet?
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Laugh it up if it makes you feel better..

I get what you were trying to say as far as touches for Ingram, but it just isn't going to happen with these other two backs on the roster. They're simply more productive than he is.
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That's fine, and I agree. I just pointed out that it was possible that he could get more touches without them getting less, which you didn't seem to understand. Nothing that happened last week changes that fact so I'm not sure why you bumped it, but if it makes you feel better....

 
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az_prof said:
Keith Lewis said:
Man of Zen said:
Keith Lewis said:
Man of Zen said:
KellysHeroes said:
most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.
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I've not heard this before. Recent examples?
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Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.
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So you don't know? I sure don't.Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:
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How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown
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How about Benson, Thomas Jones, CJ Spiller, Deangelo Williams,

I would guess that more often the guy fails--but guys with high pedigree usually get multiple chances to prove themself. In Benson and Jones' cases, it took going to a different team that used their skills differently. In Spiller's case, he needed to mature and earn more time from a good vet. And in Deangelo's case, he also didn't get enough reps and played for a coach who just doesn't like to start young players.
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add Ingram to the overhyped off-season, total disappointment in-season list

 
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I just traded Jermaine Gresham for him. He's sitting behind Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, and Knowshon Moreno in my Dynasty. Hopefully he puts something together, I've got him under contract for the next 3-years.

 
Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

Wonder if the Colts talked to the Saints about Ingram during their RB search. Coincidentally, he makes sense as a guy who could be traded.
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

Mark Ingram has a career 4.5 YPC vs. Nickel (35 att). He's at 3.9 vs. base (234 att). 1.3 vs. <4 DBs (20 att). #Saints
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

So Ingram has faced opposing base defenses on 79% (!!) of his career carries. It's a disadvantage. #Saints
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

67% of Trent Richardson's career carries are vs. base. His YPC is 3.7. Trent has a 3.6 YPC vs nickel on 73 att and 3.8 vs. Dime #Colts
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

Since he joined the Saints, only 33 (or 20%) of Darren Sproles' 163 carries have been vs. Base defense.
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

Adrian Peterson has a 4.6 YPC vs. Nickel since 2008. Ingram is at 4.5. Not saying Ingram is a stud, but something to be said there
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Mike Clay ‏@MikeClayNFL 4h

On 65 career runs behind/wide of the LT, Ingram has a 5.1 YPC. On 230 other carries, he's at 3.4 YPC. #Saints
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Having trouble with formatting, but the point is this... it's a system fit.

Let him go in redraft (with eyes on him in case of a trade), but I think he's a solid hold in dynasty.

 
Rotoworld:

Beat writer Mike Triplett believes Mark Ingram has "missed his chance" to establish himself as the Saints primary runner.
Through two games, Ingram has rushed for 31 yards on 17 carries (1.82 YPC) while displaying zero burst or power. He failed to convert a huge goal-line chance in the narrow Week 2 win at Tampa. Triplett expects there to a be a "subtle flip-flop in the coming weeks, where [Pierre] Thomas becomes more of a 1A and Ingram a 1B, instead of vice versa." We've been suggesting the same thing. Ingram is an inferior back.

Related: Pierre Thomas

Source: ESPN.com
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I'm really curious how Lacy and Richardson work out long term, because there might be something to be said about Saban Bama backs, big holes, awesome lines, big results, fooling all on the pro level.

Naturally on a fan/football level I'm still pulling for Ingram, I could take the low ypc if he was like an old Brandon Jacobs lock to convert on 3rd/4th and short but so far he has been awful at that and they've lost faith in him on that score possibly.

 
Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports league sources believe Mark Ingram may soon ask the Saints for a trade.
Ingram's role in the Saints' backfield is "nebulous," and the Saints have five tailbacks on their current 53-man roster. They could move forward with impressive UDFA Khiry Robinson behind Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas. An Ingram trade could work to everyone's benefit. He could have more fantasy value in a different offense, and his departure from the Nola would help Thomas.

Source: CBS Sports

Sep 22 - 12:15 PM
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Rotoworld:

Coach Sean Payton called the Mark Ingram trade rumors "completely false."
Payton said the Jason La Canfora report from Sunday has "zero credibility." We wouldn't expect the head coach to do anything but stand behind his failed 2011 first-round pick, but that doesn't mean a trade isn't possible. Ingram's inability to play in the Saints scheme makes a change of scenery seem like a win-win for both sides. Undrafted rookie Khiry Robinson looks more than capable of handling third running back duties.

Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune
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His time in NO is over....clearly.

Now can he catch on with another team? Who knows.

I thought he could have been a really good one.....but it never materialized.

Huge disappointment to say the least.

 
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You didnt watch him play the Bears yesterday did you?

Pierre Thomas caught nine passes for 55 yards and two touchdowns and rushed for 36 yards on 19 carries in Sunday's Week 5 win over the Bears.

If Ingram ever put up a game with 91 combined yards and two TD's against a run defense like the Bears you wouldn't even be having this thread.

 
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think I posted my PT thoughts in his thread, but I guess they are germane here: he does everything well, but nothing really outstanding (maybe hands?). I think NO/Brees/Payton trust him more than the other RBs when they worry about pass protection, versatility on offense. Sproles did very little yesterday, and I'm guessing it was part of the game plan: CHI is pretty stout against the run, OK pass rush, on the road/grass.

PT provides some versatility, protection/comfort (Would love to see the snap total breakdowns). I equate PT to Moreno in that if it is a close game, they will see more snaps. In blowouts, they run the risk of losing out to other players in need of reps and become risky fantasy starts.

Back to the topic of the OP: Ingram needs a change of scenery, badly. NO starting 5-0 without Ingram contributing (or Moore). Cut your losses and trade him for future consideration/conditional pick. He's young enough to get a second chance and still do something with it.

 
Payton on Pierre:

Can you talk about Pierre Thomas’s good run on fourth down that he had?

... he is somebody that gets to the cavity of the defense the right away. He finds the crease. ...
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That 4th is supposed to be Ingram's bread and butter. And Ingram does the very opposite.

 
Breesisdaman said:
humpback said:
Breesisdaman said:
You didnt watch him play the Bears yesterday did you?
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You haven't read much of this thread, have you?
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Too much of it plus I live it. I am a Saints fan after all. Ingram is done. He has no vision, no power and no burst. Way over rated back from a powerhouse college program.
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Well, if you read the thread, then you saw where people were blasting Ingram for his low ypc. Just pointing out that it appears it wasn't all his fault since someone who "isn't done" also has a crappy ypc.

 
PT has not been running that great either, he looks a bit slow but I will give him this, he doesn't go down after contact near as easy as Ingram. The only RB that has been doing well on a consistent basis for the Saints is Sproles. He looks like the man this year with a little PT here and there. The new kid has had some long runs but he hasn't had much playing time yet. I dont think its any secret that the Saints O line needs to gel better but I not using that as an excuse for the RB's anymore. There have been holes they just need to hit them faster.

 
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Rotoworld:

Beat writer Mike Triplett expects Mark Ingram to remain the Saints third option in the running game going forward.
Ingram finally broke out with 14 carries for a career-high 145 yards and a touchdown in Sunday night's 49-17 ravaging of the Cowboys. There's little reason to overreact. The Cowboys were playing without Sean Lee for much of the game and DeMarcus Ware was a shell of himself. Additionally, the Saints rode the run game in the second half far more than they normally will thanks to the lopsided score. Darren Sproles hasn't been a factor in the running game all season, so Ingram will continue to split early down work with Pierre Thomas going forward. In 29 career games before Sunday night, Ingram averaged 10.3 carries for 38.8 yards and scored 10 times. The Saints will face the 49ers, Seahawks and Panthers in three of the next four weeks.

Source: ESPN.com
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Ingram looked pretty good. I think he is firmly entrenched in a time-share, and is likely second fiddle to Pierre.....however, he isn't the 3rd option. Sproles is not getting carries, he will see targets in the pass game, but not carries.

I know the Cowboys D is a rusty sieve - however, Ingram looked to run with speed, power and vision. I can see him continuing to be used if/when the Saints are looking to milk the clock.....which should make him fantasy relevant.

 
No idea if his role will change going forward. But one thing I know for sure is that I hope not, because I really hate the way he freaks out after every play in which he gains a yard. Yeah, we see you there, Mark, relax. He even got the penalty the one time. And it didn't seem to be getting anyone on the team pumped up either. Brees and Payton looked as annoyed by it as I was.

 
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'll bite:

Anytime I see incredible talent falling for practically free, I jump at it. This is no different. Guy is a former Heisman winner and is a super talented runner. I get that DAL was depleted, but Ingram was running like a man possessed. Total beast. He struck me as a guy who has been waiting for so long, putting pressure on himself, and just dying to get out there and make things happen. Like he was bottled up and wanted to show what he can really do. He ran angry and explosive. If he continues to get opportunities, with that talent, in that offense, and he runs with that kind of passion -- all the goofy little mini freak outs to the side -- that's a guy who could do big things. He's got a chip on his shoulder and is looking to make the most of his shots. He obviously cares like hell. I'll take it. Blew a bunch of waiver bucks on him, and he's as good a gamble as anyone out there; maybe a much better gamble...

 
BeTheMatch said:
No idea if his role will change going forward. But one thing I know for sure is that I hope not, because I really hate the way he freaks out after every play in which he gains a yard. Yeah, we see you there, Mark, relax. He even got the penalty the one time. And it didn't seem to be getting anyone on the team pumped up either. Brees and Payton looked as annoyed by it as I was.
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I think that was just that last game. He seemed really pumped up to finally be back on the field. He wasn't just amped up when he gained yardage, he was very visually angry at himself when he dropped that first target. I think this fits with what Otis is saying.

This week vs. SF will be very interesting. Do the coaches feed him early to see if last week was a mirage? Does he bring the same intensity? Can the O-line open holes against a good defense? Lots of questions for a week 11 game...

 
As a Saints fan, I love than Ingram was fired up. He's taken a lot of heat from the fans -- even caught some loud boos when he dropped that first pass. I think he has a chance to be relevant, but he's not going to be a fantasy savior by any means. The Saints run the ball less than 30 times per game. In a game where they ran it 38 times and he absolutely went off, Ingram only got 14 carries. In a typical game, that's going to equate to about 10 carries. At a respectable 5 yards per carry, that's 50 yards. Not to mention the remaining schedule features the 49ers, Seattle, Tampa and Carolina twice. That's a pretty low ceiling.

 
Anyone with the cajones to throw him out there tonight with Sproles inactive?

I'm considering it over a banged up Nicks...

 
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