wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
I don't like women's basketball. Sorry.
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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (4 Viewers)
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playin4beer
Footballguy
I hate Novak.. don't ask my why because I really don't know.. I think Burke is the bomb...Signed,MSU fan...
whoknew
Footballguy
I think that's an insult to Ohio. I mean, they did get destroyed by Michigan just a few days ago.
whoknew
Footballguy
Yea. Everyone does. Except M fans, of course.
The Commish
Footballguy
I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"
The 1-3-1 probably isn't the best defense to be playing when you have 4 guys that can shoot the three consistently.
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Keerock
Footballguy
Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"
whoknew
Footballguy
Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"
Keerock
Footballguy
Please elaborate...Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"
whoknew
Footballguy
There are two (and really 1.5) reasons M gets a lot of wide open 3 point attempts:1) They pick and roll more than the Stockton/Malone Utah Jazz - its the basis of the offense this year;'Keerock said:Please elaborate...'whoknew said:Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.'Keerock said:Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.'The Commish said:I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"'whoknew said:
2) Teams are selling out to stop Burke from driving to the hole.
Obviously #2 is related to #1 (hence the 1.5). Burke is very, very effective at driving to the hole and scoring. In addition, the pick and roll game creates opportunities for the picker and others (with the others more than likely being open 3 point shots).
I know its hard to believe - but this team is really, really good. They beat Ohio and went only 3-13 from 3 point land.
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The Commish
Footballguy
I think this is selling Burke's effect on the defense way short.ETA: WK beat me to it.'Keerock said:Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.'The Commish said:I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"'whoknew said:
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whoknew
Footballguy
Also - they are obviously very small and get outrebounded by almost everyone. But they make teams pay for the rebounding. If a team sells out on the offensive glass - because they can and they will be successful at it, M makes them pay with fast break points. If that team (like Ohio, for example) sells out and doesn't get the offensive rebound, M is going to push it up the floor quickly to catch them at the wrong end.After the first Ohio game, for example, Beilein said that - while Ohio got 18 second chance points, M had like 14 fast break points. He pointed out, therefore, that M was really only -4 because of their rebounding deficiencies. And he said this was a deliberate strategy.'Keerock said:Please elaborate...'whoknew said:Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.'Keerock said:Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.'The Commish said:I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"'whoknew said:
Keerock
Footballguy
Of course Beilein will spin it to look like his system is working... whatever.I'm obviously bias the other way. I can't substantiate with numbers, but I would bet UM is bottom half of the B1G in most offensive categories (and obviously rebounding). I'll bet they are close last in points-in-the-paint, regardless of Burke's pick and roll abilities (For the record, I think Burke is the best frosh UM has had since the ######-5). So, either nobody sells out to stop the three, or when they do, UM can't penetrate. They have no inside presence. Morgan is a lazy hack. They are winning with decent defense and the three. Stop the three and it's over.Also - they are obviously very small and get outrebounded by almost everyone. But they make teams pay for the rebounding. If a team sells out on the offensive glass - because they can and they will be successful at it, M makes them pay with fast break points. If that team (like Ohio, for example) sells out and doesn't get the offensive rebound, M is going to push it up the floor quickly to catch them at the wrong end.After the first Ohio game, for example, Beilein said that - while Ohio got 18 second chance points, M had like 14 fast break points. He pointed out, therefore, that M was really only -4 because of their rebounding deficiencies. And he said this was a deliberate strategy.'Keerock said:Please elaborate...'whoknew said:Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.'Keerock said:Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.'The Commish said:I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"'whoknew said:
FWIW, NW is the same way... which made yesterday's game not only intriguing, but unbelievable that they wouldn't sell out to stop the three.
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
Yea I am not sure how much Michigan basketball you have watched if you are referring to Morgan as a lazy hack. Guy makes his living with energy plays, like beating pretty much every center in the league down the court for easy buckets. He is not the most talented center in the league, but he provides energy and battles like few in the league do.Of course Beilein will spin it to look like his system is working... whatever.I'm obviously bias the other way. I can't substantiate with numbers, but I would bet UM is bottom half of the B1G in most offensive categories (and obviously rebounding). I'll bet they are close last in points-in-the-paint, regardless of Burke's pick and roll abilities (For the record, I think Burke is the best frosh UM has had since the ######-5). So, either nobody sells out to stop the three, or when they do, UM can't penetrate. They have no inside presence. Morgan is a lazy hack. They are winning with decent defense and the three. Stop the three and it's over.Also - they are obviously very small and get outrebounded by almost everyone. But they make teams pay for the rebounding. If a team sells out on the offensive glass - because they can and they will be successful at it, M makes them pay with fast break points. If that team (like Ohio, for example) sells out and doesn't get the offensive rebound, M is going to push it up the floor quickly to catch them at the wrong end.After the first Ohio game, for example, Beilein said that - while Ohio got 18 second chance points, M had like 14 fast break points. He pointed out, therefore, that M was really only -4 because of their rebounding deficiencies. And he said this was a deliberate strategy.'Keerock said:Please elaborate...'whoknew said:Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.'Keerock said:Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.'The Commish said:I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"'whoknew said:
FWIW, NW is the same way... which made yesterday's game not only intriguing, but unbelievable that they wouldn't sell out to stop the three.
Keerock
Footballguy
I will respectfully withdraw the "lazy" part.
Keerock
Footballguy
Valiant effort.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Ugly win by the Spartans tonight, but I'll take it.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Next time I'd prefer they show up to play for the first 32 minutes, but man they were intense for those last eight.
Purdue thanks you for securing their ncaa bid. Way to get up for that last home game!
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Hooray for Purdue!
Now MSU can get away with a loss at Indiana and still win it outright.
Now MSU can get away with a loss at Indiana and still win it outright.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
yep awesome
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Nice Purdue!
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Matt Painter is a ##### screwing with teams 20 feet from the basket. Damn bear beat the Buckeyes with ball-screens and pick and rolls, and tonight Purdue completely shut down Michigan's pick and roll and backdoor cuts.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Hoping OSU keeps their end of the bargain. What a great conference finale that would be.yep awesome
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
If only UM had a coach like Matt Painter. Who knows how good they could be.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Yeah, crazy.You done with this yet, Sweetheart?Since 07-08 when both have been in the B1G-Beilein - 87-74 overall, 41-46 B1G, 2-2 NCAAPainter - 126-43 overall, 63-25 B1G, 6-4 NCAA, B1G COY 08,10,11Toss-up, really.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I'm a Buckeye fan, so it pains me to say this....Beilein has some big time prospects coming in, so the overall records could change in a hurry. The Big 10 is a great basketball conference because they have a number of good coaches. Izzo is one of the best in the country, and Matta, Ryan, Beilein, Painter, and Crean are not exactly chopped liver. Even a guy like Tubby Smith, who certainly has his faults, has upgraded the talent pool at a school not exactly known for their basketball program. Tubby's had quite a few off the court issues, and a key injury to Mbwake this year, that have played a part in their mediocrity. I understand that Tubby is responsible as the head coach, so not excusing him... just pointing out that not everything is black and white. I'm not sure Minnesota could do much better... no offense Gopher fans. I mean, you could have Bruce Weber.
Unless you're talking about Izzo, I think it's kind of silly to claim that one of the 2nd tier coaches are that much better than the others.GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
If only UM had a coach like Matt Painter. Who knows how good they could be.
Yeah, I was being a bit facetious with my praise.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
oh I know, wasn't meant for you....If only UM had a coach like Matt Painter. Who knows how good they could be.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Aaron Craft isn't nearly as good as he's sometimes he's portrayed. He over rotates on defense and his offense is terrible. His passing is ok but he doesn't really help the rest of the offense create, and he's atrocious as a shooter. He's almost no threat to the defense and they let him drive to the hoop at will because he is incapable of finishing at the basket.
Keerock
Footballguy
Believe me yet? 9-32 from 3pt... If they can't hit the three... Theyre in trouble.There are two (and really 1.5) reasons M gets a lot of wide open 3 point attempts:1) They pick and roll more than the Stockton/Malone Utah Jazz - its the basis of the offense this year;Please elaborate...Obviously I'm biased, but I disagree with this statement.Unbelievable how the NW coaches wouldn't (couldn't?) adjust to defend that. UM has been/will be tough to beat unless their opponent successfully defends the three... not much else to be afraid of in that offense, so you have to go all out to defend it.I end up watching a lot of Duke basketball here in SC and watching that game left me thinking "Duke's shooting of the 3 has NOTHING on Michigan"
2) Teams are selling out to stop Burke from driving to the hole.
Obviously #2 is related to #1 (hence the 1.5). Burke is very, very effective at driving to the hole and scoring. In addition, the pick and roll game creates opportunities for the picker and others (with the others more than likely being open 3 point shots).
I know its hard to believe - but this team is really, really good. They beat Ohio and went only 3-13 from 3 point land.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Go Bucky
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
This feels so weird. Bucky generally screws up MSU's Big Ten title bids rather than helping them.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
I know, I generally can't stand Bucky...but I'll take it.YES !!!!At least a share of B1G Championship
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Read back a bit to my comments concerning Craft. Shannon Scott is a Matta point guard, but he's simply not ready on the defensive end. Neither point guard has shown the ability to shoot from the perimeter.
Eviloutsider
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see how the Big Ten fares this year. I could see a number of teams making it to the sweet 16 but noone stands out for me to make a final four run.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I may be biased, but one team stands out to me.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Go Green baby
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Extremely poor showing from the Buckeyes, but if they simply would have made their free throws, then the game would have been over.
Sullinger is a liability against teams whose 5 plays away from the basket on the offensive end. Sullinger is simply terrible playing defense away from the basket. If OSU can't find a guy to hit an outside shot, the Sullinger himself is a liability period. All it takes is one guy to bang some outside shots down and Sullinger is a 20+ game scorer who dominates. At least he didn't cry to the officials tonight.
DeShaun Thomas is about as gifted of a player I've seen in a long time around the basket. He's 6'7" and doesn't have a "big" frame, but he's long and can bang. Thomas doesn't bring the ball down very often, and he has the best touch from 5 feet in that I've ever seen. For whatever reasons, he goes to the block and has major success, and then backs out and decides that chucking 3's and off balance shots are his game. It baffles me. He also falls asleep on defense entirely way too much.
Lenzelle Smith seems like a nice guy, plays good D, but has no balls whatsoever on the offensive end. He officially has the biggest bagina in college basketball IMO.
Craft is fine, and not the problem as he was not supposed to be a scorer. That said, things change and OSU is desperate for a consistent scorer from the perimeter.
I have no clue what to think about this team. I guess they're simply not as good as we thought they would be.
Sullinger is a liability against teams whose 5 plays away from the basket on the offensive end. Sullinger is simply terrible playing defense away from the basket. If OSU can't find a guy to hit an outside shot, the Sullinger himself is a liability period. All it takes is one guy to bang some outside shots down and Sullinger is a 20+ game scorer who dominates. At least he didn't cry to the officials tonight.
DeShaun Thomas is about as gifted of a player I've seen in a long time around the basket. He's 6'7" and doesn't have a "big" frame, but he's long and can bang. Thomas doesn't bring the ball down very often, and he has the best touch from 5 feet in that I've ever seen. For whatever reasons, he goes to the block and has major success, and then backs out and decides that chucking 3's and off balance shots are his game. It baffles me. He also falls asleep on defense entirely way too much.
Lenzelle Smith seems like a nice guy, plays good D, but has no balls whatsoever on the offensive end. He officially has the biggest bagina in college basketball IMO.
Craft is fine, and not the problem as he was not supposed to be a scorer. That said, things change and OSU is desperate for a consistent scorer from the perimeter.
I have no clue what to think about this team. I guess they're simply not as good as we thought they would be.
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Are you talking about the team that has lost to NW, IL, and Scum since early january? And already proved they couldnt beat duke or unc. I agree they are the best shot that the big 10 has at advancing but I don't think they are good enough to be called elite. I still think UK and UNC are the best teams in the country and will walk over any Big 10 team in their way.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Also, it's sad that Buford's last game in Columbus was a loss. I've been critical of the guy lately, but only for his performance, and not his effort. He's been a great Buckeye.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
You must not watch very much college basketball. Every year there are numerous teams who look lost early that improve by leaps and bounds.ETA: Not to mention this is Tom Izzo. I'm pretty sure his plan for years has to been throw his team to the wolves early and then fix things as the season progresses. The guy schedules one of the toughest, if not the toughest schedule in the country every year.
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He will be a better pro than a college player. His game is not built for college where you are working to get the best shot possible. He will be good in situations where he can spot up or just go in an isolation set.
I watch a ton of college bball and great teams dont lose to northwestern, good teams do.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Well, I stand corrected! This isn't 1983, Northwestern is a decent team.
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