The Commish
Footballguy
...that's all ya got...thanks for stopping by.
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Big Ten Basketball 2022/2023 - Return to Power (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Garrett
- Start date
Samuel L Bronkowitz
Footballguy
The first one I quoted is rather comical. This one is...well...usually true 
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
gotcha...thought you were going in a different direction there.....in fact since 1998, and except for last year (which IMO was the worst "team" in recent memory), it's always been the case.
122-59 over those 2 months
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Nice win for Buckeyes. 
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
Nice win for Buckeyes.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
MSU has had a a few down years since 99, so you might want to start hanging around smarter basketball people.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I wish Lenzelle Smith would look to score more. Right now, it's Sully, Thomas, Buford, and not much else. Buford has been horrible this year. I have no clue what is going on with him. The bricks don't bother me near as much as the turnovers, especially transition turnovers. Too many dumb passes, and he doesn't understand spacing on the break either. It's not for lack of effort, so I'm stumped. I hope he snaps out of it, soon.Shannon Scott has improved quite a bit since early in the season. He's had a few veteran guys pick on him at the defensive end, but I like the way he's developing. Very nice talent. I think Scott allows Craft to be a little more aggressive early in the game. Good to have 2 quality point guards.ETA: Scott played 8 minutes yesterday. He didn't score, but had 2 assists, 1 rebound, and 1 steal. He did nice job holding the fort down after Craft got in foul trouble.
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BigJohn
Footballguy
I'm not sure, either. In all honesty, he has not been the same since Kentucky in the tourney last year. That game was a disaster, and it hasn't really turned around since.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
I haven't watched Indiana nearly as much as you have, but based on what I've seen, they live and die by the 3 ball. Zeller is a good player, but he doesn't add much of a post presence. Not really his fault.... just needs to get bigger and stronger, which takes time.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Other than one half of ball against Kansas, I've not seen the same player we did last year. If the Kentucky game is still in his head, then he needs to get over it 3 months ago. Kentucky makes a lot of good players look bad. I will say that Buford is not getting as many open looks this year, but the difference hasn't been that drastic. I'm perfectly fine pounding Sullinger and letting DeShaun do what DeShaun does, but man, it would be nice to have a legit 3 point threat. I have to think that Buford will break out at some point; He's too good of a player not to.
And just because I haven't said it in a while, I
DeShaun Thomas.
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
This team just doesn't have anything going for it right now. They can't rebound, they can't hit shots from the outside. It's painful to watch.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Luke Appling
He retired 60 years ago and died 20 years ago. Yet somehow Verne Lundquist is still alive and calling games.
He retired 60 years ago and died 20 years ago. Yet somehow Verne Lundquist is still alive and calling games.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
oh and
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
oofLuke Appling
pot and kettle.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
back atcha big guy.pot and kettle.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Kinda disappointed in the Michigan effort today. They didn't seem focused and were very rattled early. Put themselves in a hole they couldn't climb out of. Not sure what was up with that early shot selection, but it wasn't pretty.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Yeah, they didn't really seem to play with the level of intensity you would want in a rivalry game. Which is fine by me, because MSU needed this one.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Agree, State really needed this one today. It was good to see Green was no worse for wear. (another double-double, is that his 13th this year?) Things didnt look so good after the last game.
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Thought they played a hell of a game. Buckeyes showed some weakness on the defensive end with all the high screens. Hard to stop Buford when he gets hot though.
MSU on Saturday. 
BigJohn
Footballguy
Welcome back, Willie.Other than one half of ball against Kansas, I've not seen the same player we did last year. If the Kentucky game is still in his head, then he needs to get over it 3 months ago. Kentucky makes a lot of good players look bad. I will say that Buford is not getting as many open looks this year, but the difference hasn't been that drastic. I'm perfectly fine pounding Sullinger and letting DeShaun do what DeShaun does, but man, it would be nice to have a legit 3 point threat. I have to think that Buford will break out at some point; He's too good of a player not to.
And just because I haven't said it in a while, I
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Welcome back, Willie.Other than one half of ball against Kansas, I've not seen the same player we did last year. If the Kentucky game is still in his head, then he needs to get over it 3 months ago. Kentucky makes a lot of good players look bad. I will say that Buford is not getting as many open looks this year, but the difference hasn't been that drastic. I'm perfectly fine pounding Sullinger and letting DeShaun do what DeShaun does, but man, it would be nice to have a legit 3 point threat. I have to think that Buford will break out at some point; He's too good of a player not to.
And just because I haven't said it in a while, I
I think that big 3 he hit in Madison loosened him up a little. This could be huge if he's indeed back.GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Sullinger's bad at defending the pick and roll, so I'm surprised more teams haven't tried high ball screens against Ohio State. Sullinger was terrible against the high ball screen last night. OSU played horrible last night IMO, but William finally breaking out might be the most important development in Ohio State's season. I know opposing teams think Ohio State has been playing well, but the offense has been pretty one dimensional.Thought they played a hell of a game. Buckeyes showed some weakness on the defensive end with all the high screens. Hard to stop Buford when he gets hot though.
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
Just for fun I threw together my All Big Ten teams at this point in the season. I have watched every team play this year, some a lot more than others.
All Big Ten
First Team
G - Tim Frazier, Penn St.
G - Brandon Paul, Illinois
F - John Shurna, Northwestern
F - Draymond Green, Michigan St.
F - Jared Sullinger, Ohio St.
2nd Team
G - Jordan Taylor, Wisconsin
G - Aaron Craft, Ohio St.
F - William Buford, Ohio St.
F - Cody Zeller, Indiana
C - Meyers Leonard, Illinois
3rd Team
G - Trey Burke, Michigan
G - Drew Crawford, Northwestern
F - Christian Watford, Indiana
F - Robbie Hummel, Purdue
F - DeShaun Thomas, Ohio St./Tim Hardaway Jr., Michigan
Had a difficult time deciding on that last spot. Hardaway is fading fast so it would probably be Thomas if that keeps up.
All Freshman Team
G - Trey Burke, Michigan
G - Dave Sobolewski, Northwestern
F - Brendan Dawson, Michigan St.
F - Aaron White, Iowa
F - Cody Zeller, Indiana
Thoughts?
All Big Ten
First Team
G - Tim Frazier, Penn St.
G - Brandon Paul, Illinois
F - John Shurna, Northwestern
F - Draymond Green, Michigan St.
F - Jared Sullinger, Ohio St.
2nd Team
G - Jordan Taylor, Wisconsin
G - Aaron Craft, Ohio St.
F - William Buford, Ohio St.
F - Cody Zeller, Indiana
C - Meyers Leonard, Illinois
3rd Team
G - Trey Burke, Michigan
G - Drew Crawford, Northwestern
F - Christian Watford, Indiana
F - Robbie Hummel, Purdue
F - DeShaun Thomas, Ohio St./Tim Hardaway Jr., Michigan
Had a difficult time deciding on that last spot. Hardaway is fading fast so it would probably be Thomas if that keeps up.
All Freshman Team
G - Trey Burke, Michigan
G - Dave Sobolewski, Northwestern
F - Brendan Dawson, Michigan St.
F - Aaron White, Iowa
F - Cody Zeller, Indiana
Thoughts?
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Solid list...personally, I'd bump Burke into the next tier and drop Leonard down, and Hummel out completely (he's a shell of his former self).
Burke has been huge this year for Michigan. IMO, I think he bolts for the show after next year.
Burke has been huge this year for Michigan. IMO, I think he bolts for the show after next year.
Garrett
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with this. My first thought was bounce Leonard down a level. Other than that, pretty good list.
Garrett
Footballguy
Losing at home to Northwestern and then getting pounded in the first road game at Indiana is not the way to start this out. Illinois is done.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
What a first half for MSU. 
Especially encouraged by Adreian Payne. He's the one guy who can transform the Spartans from a good team to a national contender, and he's actually playing up to his potential for once.
Especially encouraged by Adreian Payne. He's the one guy who can transform the Spartans from a good team to a national contender, and he's actually playing up to his potential for once.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
ESPN's coverage was terrible, and why does Dan Dakich (Spelling) do every OSU game? The guy is horrible. Just an example: In the 2nd half, he said that Ohio State had been missing wide open shots the entire game; true, then 10 minutes later he was asked if it was Ohio State missing shots or if MSU playing good defense, of course, he changes his tune and says it's MSU playing good defense. If it wasn't for **** Vitale, I'd say that Dakich is the worst college basketball announcer going. Sorry... Dakich rant has been coming for some time.
Back to the game....
Like I said, Ohio State's offense is one dimensional. I was hoping, along with a million other Buckeye fans, that Buford had broken out of his funk, but I guess not. Buford gives effort, but at this point, Matta has to seriously consider reducing his minutes. Missed shots game after game are one thing, but hurried shots and turnovers are unacceptable from a Senior. He's just not as good as we thought.
Lenzelle Smith has to be more assertive. If he can't be more assertive, then either go with 2 bigs, Lavender and Sullinger, or replace Smith with Sibert. Ohio State's offense is stale and predictable. Sam Thompson is athletic as hell, but OSU needs another scorer in the worst way.
I love DeShaun Thomas, but maybe only do 3 lines of coke before big games. Also, get better on the defensive end.
Thad Matta, love you and wouldn't trade you for the world, but you have issues right now and sticking with the same guys might not solve the problem. Of course, Matta has proved me wrong 20 times over.
Rant over.
ETA: Props to Izzo and MSU. They outcoached and outplayed OSU tonight.
Back to the game....
Like I said, Ohio State's offense is one dimensional. I was hoping, along with a million other Buckeye fans, that Buford had broken out of his funk, but I guess not. Buford gives effort, but at this point, Matta has to seriously consider reducing his minutes. Missed shots game after game are one thing, but hurried shots and turnovers are unacceptable from a Senior. He's just not as good as we thought.
Lenzelle Smith has to be more assertive. If he can't be more assertive, then either go with 2 bigs, Lavender and Sullinger, or replace Smith with Sibert. Ohio State's offense is stale and predictable. Sam Thompson is athletic as hell, but OSU needs another scorer in the worst way.
I love DeShaun Thomas, but maybe only do 3 lines of coke before big games. Also, get better on the defensive end.
Thad Matta, love you and wouldn't trade you for the world, but you have issues right now and sticking with the same guys might not solve the problem. Of course, Matta has proved me wrong 20 times over.
Rant over.
ETA: Props to Izzo and MSU. They outcoached and outplayed OSU tonight.
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
MSU's best win in Big Ten play in a long time.
Granted OSU did not play well and missed a lot of open looks. But MSU made sure they limited the easy buckets and brought help on Sullinger when needed. Sometimes it wasn't needed because Payne was playing out of his mind.
I like the Nix/Payne rotation. Nix is fat and Payne is lazy, but they both seem to be able to play hard for 2-3 minutes at a time. Switching them up constantly seems to maximize their production.
Still hard to pick MSU to win the Big Ten with so many tough games left on the schedule. But if they can win in Columbus, they can win anywhere.
Granted OSU did not play well and missed a lot of open looks. But MSU made sure they limited the easy buckets and brought help on Sullinger when needed. Sometimes it wasn't needed because Payne was playing out of his mind.
I like the Nix/Payne rotation. Nix is fat and Payne is lazy, but they both seem to be able to play hard for 2-3 minutes at a time. Switching them up constantly seems to maximize their production.
Still hard to pick MSU to win the Big Ten with so many tough games left on the schedule. But if they can win in Columbus, they can win anywhere.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Agree with pretty much all this.Buford's on and they're a legit FF team and NC contender. If he's off...bounced in the Sweet 16 again. <_<ESPN's coverage was terrible, and why does Dan Dakich (Spelling) do every OSU game? The guy is horrible. Just an example: In the 2nd half, he said that Ohio State had been missing wide open shots the entire game; true, then 10 minutes later he was asked if it was Ohio State missing shots or if MSU playing good defense, of course, he changes his tune and says it's MSU playing good defense. If it wasn't for **** Vitale, I'd say that Dakich is the worst college basketball announcer going. Sorry... Dakich rant has been coming for some time.Back to the game....Like I said, Ohio State's offense is one dimensional. I was hoping, along with a million other Buckeye fans, that Buford had broken out of his funk, but I guess not. Buford gives effort, but at this point, Matta has to seriously consider reducing his minutes. Missed shots game after game are one thing, but hurried shots and turnovers are unacceptable from a Senior. He's just not as good as we thought. Lenzelle Smith has to be more assertive. If he can't be more assertive, then either go with 2 bigs, Lavender and Sullinger, or replace Smith with Sibert. Ohio State's offense is stale and predictable. Sam Thompson is athletic as hell, but OSU needs another scorer in the worst way. I love DeShaun Thomas, but maybe only do 3 lines of coke before big games. Also, get better on the defensive end.Thad Matta, love you and wouldn't trade you for the world, but you have issues right now and sticking with the same guys might not solve the problem. Of course, Matta has proved me wrong 20 times over.Rant over.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Keerock
Footballguy
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
OSU has a tougher schedule the rest of the way than MSU. Ohio State plays 4 or their next 6 on the road. Michigan State plays 3 of their next 6 on the road.Both play home games against Wisconsin and away games against Minnesota. Playing @ Michigan and @ MSU is tougher than playing @ Indiana and @ Purdue.Other than that, MSU has a home game with Nebraska and the final game against OSU. Ohio State has a home game against Illinois and a road game against Northwestern.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Would tend to agree that on paper, tOSU has the tougher remaining way to go, but winning on the road anywhere in the BIG10 is so tough. Minny, Indiana and Purdue on the road will be no cake walk for the Spartans. Likewise for tOSU, even though the Illini have been faltering lately, its always a tough win in Champaign. 4 of the last 6 on the road is going to be a tough hurdle. Makes that MSU win on Sat. night that much bigger for the Spartans.Anything can happen....
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Garrett
Footballguy
Potential tournament seeds at this point?
(1) Michigan State
(2) Ohio State
(4) Indiana
(4) Michigan
(6) Wisconsin
(11) Minnesota
(12) Purdue
(13) Illinois
I could easily see Northwestern alternating with either Purdue or Illinois for those 12/13 seeds.
I do think the Big Ten gets 8 teams in easily.
(1) Michigan State
(2) Ohio State
(4) Indiana
(4) Michigan
(6) Wisconsin
(11) Minnesota
(12) Purdue
(13) Illinois
I could easily see Northwestern alternating with either Purdue or Illinois for those 12/13 seeds.
I do think the Big Ten gets 8 teams in easily.
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BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
as of yesterday, Lunardi had it:2) MSU2) tOSU4) Michigan4) Indiana4) Wisconsin10) Purdue12) Illinois13) Minnesota (play in)Minny listed first in the "Last 4 In" column, NW listed in the "First 4 Out" column. I think Minny gets in and makes it 8 for sure.
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Buckeyes needed that win last night badly.
@ TTUN on Saturday night
@ TTUN on Saturday night
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
If Michigan is able to pull off the upset against Ohio St., they would have a really good shot at a share of the conference championship or better. Their remaining schedule after that game is pretty weak, all games against the bottom half of the Big Ten (though mostly on the road), while MSU and Ohio St. still have tough schedules.
Unfortunately I think their perfect home record goes out the window on Saturday though.
Unfortunately I think their perfect home record goes out the window on Saturday though.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
I think Michigan has a real good shot at a win against tOSU. The Bucks seem a bit vulnerable and road wins in the B1G are really tough this year.'The Real Hipster Doofus said:
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GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Purdue has impressed me this year. I didn't think they would be a tourney team, but they've improved steadily and should be in.
Weber is gone.
I'm worried about the Michigan game. Too much #####ing and moaning coming from the Buckeyes lately.
Jared Sullinger, you can shoot your mouth off to the press and then backtrack and/or apologize the next day once, but not twice. Quit whining to the refs. Stop airing laundry to the press. Shut your ####### mouth. Your act is growing old. Just play ball.
LaQuinton Ross, keep your mouth shut.
Matta is no nonsense coach, so we'll see if the Minnesota game was a sign of things to come.
Weber is gone.
I'm worried about the Michigan game. Too much #####ing and moaning coming from the Buckeyes lately.
Jared Sullinger, you can shoot your mouth off to the press and then backtrack and/or apologize the next day once, but not twice. Quit whining to the refs. Stop airing laundry to the press. Shut your ####### mouth. Your act is growing old. Just play ball.
LaQuinton Ross, keep your mouth shut.
Matta is no nonsense coach, so we'll see if the Minnesota game was a sign of things to come.
