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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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his whole life the soulfly's of the world have been telling him he is never wrong because he can catch a football, the dude believes it. He's not wrong the league is, the law is, everyone else is!!!

Considering marijuana is a misdemeanor and not a felony in almost any state anymore? And is actually legal in a couple states with more to come? Yeah... he isn't wrong, the league is wrong.

So I can partake in an alcoholic beverage during my lunch break? Screw my company for telling me otherwise.

A better analogy would be questioning whether you can partake in an alcoholic beverage during your vacation

only if we're back in Prohibition.

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Hey guys! Did I miss anything?

Gordon was pretty upbeat on his instagram account.

Ramsay or Jump?

Ramsay. Jump was still upset about all of those poor turkeys that plummeted to their death.

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Hey guys! Did I miss anything?

Gordon was pretty upbeat on his instagram account.

Ramsay or Jump?

Ramsay. Jump was still upset about all of those poor turkeys that plummeted to their death.

LOL

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

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The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.

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So the next screw up is a full lifetime ban, correct? Any chance of a conviction on the DUI charge (pushed to November) being that next screw up? Could have already have a lifetime suspension without any further infractions?

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that sucks, but it's what i expected.

bad news for my boy Hoyer.

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So I can partake in an alcoholic beverage during my lunch break? Screw my company for telling me otherwise.

A better analogy would be questioning whether you can partake in an alcoholic beverage during your vacation

Not it wouldn't be.

NFL policy states the players are subjected to drug testing and if they fail they face discipline.

My company's policy states that no alcohol consumption during working hours.

The point being that something being legal, doesn't mean that a private corporation/business can not make it against company policy.

If this helps, I deal with a lot of confidential information. If I tweeted some of it out to the twittersphere during my vacation, it would not sit well with my employers. But I am legally allowed to have a twitter account.

Well we could do dueling analogies all day but since you've opened up another one...Because the NFL does not indiscriminately test all players during the offseason at the same frequency your twitter example doesn't fly. It would be closer to something like this...your co-workers are allowed to tweet it up during their off hours however you've previously been labeled a big mouth by your company so you're not allowed to even have a twitter account.

I do get your point...he knew the rules and he's an idiot for breaking them but it still stands that the rules are waaay too stringent when compared to the consequences of the crime or any average workplace. Seriously how is the NFL hurt by players smoking up in the offseason? Do NFL fans actually hold players to a higher standard than rock stars, actors or any celebrity for that matter?

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Surprised more people aren't talking about the, IMO, inevitable court tie-up. I don't think this is over by a long shot which means this thread has a good chance of doubling in posts.

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So the next screw up is a full lifetime ban, correct? Any chance of a conviction on the DUI charge (pushed to November) being that next screw up? Could have already have a lifetime suspension without any further infractions?

I don't think there is anything in the substance abuse policy about a lifetime ban. It's just that once you're in stage 3, you stay there forever and any violation in stage 3 results in a MINIMUM 1 year ban. Its always at the sole discretion of the commission if/when the player is reinstated to the NFL.

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Hey guys! Did I miss anything?

Gordon was pretty upbeat on his instagram account.

Ramsay or Jump?

Ramsay. Jump was still upset about all of those poor turkeys that plummeted to their death.

I'm just glad he got out of the bicycle business.

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Can you convert that into Doritos consumed for we simpletons?

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off

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The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.

NFL doesn't REALLY care about its players...or their wives.

about as much as Caesar cared about his gladiators.

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So I can partake in an alcoholic beverage during my lunch break? Screw my company for telling me otherwise.

A better analogy would be questioning whether you can partake in an alcoholic beverage during your vacation

Not it wouldn't be.

NFL policy states the players are subjected to drug testing and if they fail they face discipline.

My company's policy states that no alcohol consumption during working hours.

The point being that something being legal, doesn't mean that a private corporation/business can not make it against company policy.

If this helps, I deal with a lot of confidential information. If I tweeted some of it out to the twittersphere during my vacation, it would not sit well with my employers. But I am legally allowed to have a twitter account.

Well we could do dueling analogies all day but since you've opened up another one...Because the NFL does not indiscriminately test all players during the offseason at the same frequency your twitter example doesn't fly. It would be closer to something like this...your co-workers are allowed to tweet it up during their off hours however you've previously been labeled a big mouth by your company so you're not allowed to even have a twitter account.

I do get your point...he knew the rules and he's an idiot for breaking them but it still stands that the rules are waaay too stringent when compared to the consequences of the crime or any average workplace. Seriously how is the NFL hurt by players smoking up in the offseason? Do NFL fans actually hold players to a higher standard than rock stars, actors or any celebrity for that matter?

Oh, I don't think the rule should be in place, my only point was in refuting the notion that something being legal doesn't mean that a private employer cant legislate against it.

Honestly the NFL creates its own black-eye by even drug testing and handing out suspensions for it. No one would even know Josh Gordon smoked some pot if otherwise.

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The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.

Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!

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So I can partake in an alcoholic beverage during my lunch break? Screw my company for telling me otherwise.

A better analogy would be questioning whether you can partake in an alcoholic beverage during your vacation

Not it wouldn't be.

NFL policy states the players are subjected to drug testing and if they fail they face discipline.

My company's policy states that no alcohol consumption during working hours.

The point being that something being legal, doesn't mean that a private corporation/business can not make it against company policy.

If this helps, I deal with a lot of confidential information. If I tweeted some of it out to the twittersphere during my vacation, it would not sit well with my employers. But I am legally allowed to have a twitter account.

Well we could do dueling analogies all day but since you've opened up another one...Because the NFL does not indiscriminately test all players during the offseason at the same frequency your twitter example doesn't fly. It would be closer to something like this...your co-workers are allowed to tweet it up during their off hours however you've previously been labeled a big mouth by your company so you're not allowed to even have a twitter account.

I do get your point...he knew the rules and he's an idiot for breaking them but it still stands that the rules are waaay too stringent when compared to the consequences of the crime or any average workplace. Seriously how is the NFL hurt by players smoking up in the offseason? Do NFL fans actually hold players to a higher standard than rock stars, actors or any celebrity for that matter?

remember about 10 yrs ago when it seemed there was an NFL incident just about every week during the off-season. That's why its so strict.

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Honestly the NFL creates its own black-eye by even drug testing and handing out suspensions for it. No one would even know Josh Gordon smoked some pot if otherwise.

:goodposting:

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off

Right, if it was .01 over that time, how many times was it .01 under and how long until it would have been a .05 or a .1 over.

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The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.

Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!

What if he was an got a second hand exposure?

I mean, he probably WASNT smoking weed.

Wrong place, wrong time, plainly but he barely failed a test and one was clean.

Policy for policy sake with a commissioner who has written the book on being discretionary is tough to take.

Gordon did his "crime" and will do his time, that's fine. It's a closed issue.

And if the responsibility quotient is what you feel, your thoughts on Irsay and Rice, who have no grey area in their offenses.

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I can't see him playing this year.

The only chance would be getting a court to grant a TRO, or settling for a lesser suspension by threatening to get a court to grant a TRO.

But his chances in court seem very bad, which means that the threat seems weak and provides no real leverage.

It can't be entirely ruled out, but I think the chance is small enough to be discounted completely for practical purposes.

I wonder if the NFL strategically made this a one season suspension vs. a one year suspension to lessen the strength of any potential lawsuit on Gordon's side. I think Gordon would have had a legitimate beef about the time it took to get this settled and the fact that if it were 1 calendar year he would miss next year's preseason too. But if they NFL says he's eligible for reinstatement at the end of the 2014 season, he really doesn't have much grounds for a lawsuit or obtaining a TRO IMHO.

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So the next screw up is a full lifetime ban, correct? Any chance of a conviction on the DUI charge (pushed to November) being that next screw up? Could have already have a lifetime suspension without any further infractions?

I don't think there is anything in the substance abuse policy about a lifetime ban. It's just that once you're in stage 3, you stay there forever and any violation in stage 3 results in a MINIMUM 1 year ban. Its always at the sole discretion of the commission if/when the player is reinstated to the NFL.

In the case of Justin Blackmon it was an indefinite suspension. But, yes, once you get in the program, it is very tough to get out.

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Can you convert that into Doritos consumed for we simpletons?

0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off

I hope you never get pulled over and blow a .080. I would assume there is some built in clinically accepted margin of error for the amount? If so, Gordon and his legal staff should have definitely challenged the result and possible suspension. I'm assuming they had expert toxicology testimony stating that Gordon's results were well within the accepted margin of error, and I'm surprised that didn't create enough doubt to carry the day.

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Is this policy in place to protect the players or appease the fans?

to weed out the idiots in the league, no matter their talent level.

I wouldn't object to this notion if there was some consistency to it.

Does it extend to management as well?

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Is this policy in place to protect the players or appease the fans?

to weed out the idiots in the league, no matter their talent level.

The Hall of Fame is full of "idiots" then.

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My buddy who is a Browns fan is babbling about Gordon suing the league because they are supposed to rule within 5 days of the appeal. My understanding is that the league no longer is the one making the ruling and that it is an independent arbitrator now so the 5 days thing is out the window under the new policy enacted last year.

Can anyone confirm one way or the other on that?

It's not the NFL that's supposed to rule; it's the arbitrator. And he's supposed to rule "within a reasonable time." I think 23 days is unreasonably long, myself, but ten days would have been reasonable. And the difference between the two isn't all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. If Gordon stays out of trouble between now and then, he'll probably be able to negotiate a reduction of the suspension by at least 13 days, I would think, without filing a lawsuit.

MT - Is there any shot in your opinion he plays this year, or can he be dropped in redraft?

Flush Gordon.

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Can you convert that into Doritos consumed for we simpletons?

0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off

I hope you never get pulled over and blow a .080. I would assume there is some built in clinically accepted margin of error for the amount? If so, Gordon and his legal staff should have definitely challenged the result and possible suspension. I'm assuming they had expert toxicology testimony stating that Gordon's results were well within the accepted margin of error, and I'm surprised that didn't create enough doubt to carry the day.

He could have avoided the whole thing through his own behavior. Just like a drunk driver can. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

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Is this policy in place to protect the players or appease the fans?

to weed out the idiots in the league, no matter their talent level.

The Hall of Fame is full of "idiots" then.

:lmao: we CELEBRATE lt and joe Namath partying the night before games but string up the Gordon's of the world

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Bingo Bango. Never a doubt here.

Yeah, sure....

See post 6984 from me yesterday.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=645846&page=140#entry17146988

And elsewhere upthread a month or more ago.

No, never a doubt here.

And honestly, I put it at about 80-90% he messes up again before ever getting reinstated.

The way this played out everyone had doubts. The timeframe, reports, legal speak, and questions about drug testing all combined to introduce some element of doubt for all. It just did.

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So what happens to his DWI case now? I thought they said this suspension didn't take that case into account. So if he is found guilty does he go into Triple-double secret probation with an indefinite suspension?

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So I can partake in an alcoholic beverage during my lunch break? Screw my company for telling me otherwise.

A better analogy would be questioning whether you can partake in an alcoholic beverage during your vacation

Not it wouldn't be.

NFL policy states the players are subjected to drug testing and if they fail they face discipline.

My company's policy states that no alcohol consumption during working hours.

The point being that something being legal, doesn't mean that a private corporation/business can not make it against company policy.

If this helps, I deal with a lot of confidential information. If I tweeted some of it out to the twittersphere during my vacation, it would not sit well with my employers. But I am legally allowed to have a twitter account.

Well we could do dueling analogies all day but since you've opened up another one...Because the NFL does not indiscriminately test all players during the offseason at the same frequency your twitter example doesn't fly. It would be closer to something like this...your co-workers are allowed to tweet it up during their off hours however you've previously been labeled a big mouth by your company so you're not allowed to even have a twitter account.

I do get your point...he knew the rules and he's an idiot for breaking them but it still stands that the rules are waaay too stringent when compared to the consequences of the crime or any average workplace. Seriously how is the NFL hurt by players smoking up in the offseason? Do NFL fans actually hold players to a higher standard than rock stars, actors or any celebrity for that matter?

remember about 10 yrs ago when it seemed there was an NFL incident just about every week during the off-season. That's why its so strict.

I remember ten years ago very well...What I dont recall is an inordinate number of 'NFL incidents' during baseball season, however I do remember some great football games in the fall.

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So what happens to his DWI case now? I thought they said this suspension didn't take that case into account. So if he is found guilty does he go into Triple-double secret probation with an indefinite suspension?

Technically he already has an indefinite suspension. IIRC, he has to stay clean, abide by the rules of the NFL drug policy, and must apply for reinstatement. So at a minimum he misses all games from this season, but he could miss more.

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Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.

Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.

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So the next screw up is a full lifetime ban, correct? Any chance of a conviction on the DUI charge (pushed to November) being that next screw up? Could have already have a lifetime suspension without any further infractions?

I don't think there is anything in the substance abuse policy about a lifetime ban. It's just that once you're in stage 3, you stay there forever and any violation in stage 3 results in a MINIMUM 1 year ban. Its always at the sole discretion of the commission if/when the player is reinstated to the NFL.

Lifetime bans come after a second indefinite suspension. I think Blackmon is closer to that fate than Gordon at this point, but I'm not sure.

Also, on the DUI, that probably falls under the personal conduct policy, not the substance abuse policy (he wasn't caught drunk/high by the NFL), so that might just land him a 2 game suspension for a first offence same as Rice.

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0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Can you convert that into Doritos consumed for we simpletons?

0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.

Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off

I hope you never get pulled over and blow a .080. I would assume there is some built in clinically accepted margin of error for the amount? If so, Gordon and his legal staff should have definitely challenged the result and possible suspension. I'm assuming they had expert toxicology testimony stating that Gordon's results were well within the accepted margin of error, and I'm surprised that didn't create enough doubt to carry the day.

Where I work I have a company vehicle. If I get a DUI, I am fired, done, kicked to the curve, no appeal. Margin of error doesn't matter, I know the company policy. You know how I handle this, I have a designed driver when I go out and have a few drinks. It's really not that hard to play by the rules. The NFL drug policy is the same for every player, doesn't matter if it was second hand smoke etc,. when you know the rules you don't get yourself into those situations or hang out where drugs are being used. It's not that hard.

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Is this policy in place to protect the players or appease the fans?

to weed out the idiots in the league, no matter their talent level.

The Hall of Fame is full of "idiots" then.

:lmao: we CELEBRATE lt and joe Namath partying the night before games but string up the Gordon's of the world

Namath wasn't subject to any policy back then around this. The NFLPA agreed to the current substance abuse policy. Like the rules, don't like the rules, it doesn't really matter what your position is on marijuana. The league and the players association felt that repeated violations of the drug policy they constructed should result in a year suspension. Not sure why there's so much angst around this.

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Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.

Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.

If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.

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I wonder if the NFL strategically made this a one season suspension vs. a one year suspension ...

The written decision hasn't been made available yet, but I suspect that this point is being misreported.

I suspect that the initial suspension handed down in May was for one calendar year.

I also suspect that the arbitrator's ruling was simply to uphold that suspension based on his conclusion that Gordon really did fail the drug test.

The length of the suspension, I suspect, was not something that the arbitrator was given to rule on, so he would not have taken it upon himself to do so, except just to uphold the original suspension.

I believe, therefore, that talk of less than a full calendar year is coming not from the arbitrator's decision, but rather from a league source discussing the league's intention to allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement early (perhaps in return for Gordon's promise not to sue in court).

I could be proven wrong about all of that whenever the arbitrator's written decision is released, but that's my guess.

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Is this policy in place to protect the players or appease the fans?

to weed out the idiots in the league, no matter their talent level.

The Hall of Fame is full of "idiots" then.

:lmao: we CELEBRATE lt and joe Namath partying the night before games but string up the Gordon's of the world

That was then and this now, sorry but that's just the way it is.

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The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.

NFL doesn't REALLY care about its players...or their wives.

about as much as Caesar cared about his gladiators.

This offends me. I am sensing some sarcasm here.

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