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WR Josh Gordon, KC (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
Unfortunately, no. Bloom has been all over twitter today talking about how this is pretty "standard" and "typical" for people in their 20s. Here is a guy who represents FBG and relies on data to support his arguments and, yet, the data in the US in no way supports anything he says about this being standard or typical rap sheets of 20 year olds.
Agree. And if this behavior was standard wouldn't most NFL players then be facing the same suspension Gordon is, or at least many of them? The fact that he is in the vast minority of NFL players who is in this boat seems to point to him being atypical.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
that's a good one too. i came up with Vick, but that was different because he was locked up away from any trouble.
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
Not are most kids or 20 year olds involved in this much trouble, either. Let's not forget that when we use terms like "typical" and "standard" to describe early-20 year old behavior.
squistion
Footballguy
Which isn't what he said, but don't let that stop your Straw Man argument that Bloom claims that most 20 year old have the same rap sheet as Gordon.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
PAGING MR.SOULFLY...PAGING MR.SOULFLY ...YOU ARE NEEDED AT THE JOSH GORDAN DEFENSE TEAM HEADQUARTERS ASAP
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
He said Gordon's behavior was standard and typical. How on earth is this a straw man?
squistion
Footballguy
You extrapolated that to say it was "this being standard or typical rap sheets of 20 year olds." He didn't say that.
amnesiac
beer is good
i think Bloom is one of the best resources FBGs has to offer. comparing rap sheets to mistakes doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me.
and Bloom is a bit off base here, imo.
but i do agree with the sentiment that condemnation is not constructive.
Gordon clearly needs help.
cstu
Footballguy
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
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amnesiac
beer is good
usually people's biggest mistakes end up on their rap sheet.seems like you might be splitting hairs here?
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
Behaviors, rap sheets, behaviors that result in rap sheets. No matter how you slice it, the recidivist nature of Gordon's choices is neither typical nor standard for people in their early-20s.
To your other post, Gordon may benefit from help, but taking accountability and personal responsibility is a prerequisite. And, that's on him.
So many are missing the obvious point here...
It's not about his 0.9 when 0.8 was the limit
It's not about the weed in the car not being his
It's about the fact that he continues to put himself in positions for this stuff to keep happening. He obviously cannot make good decisions on his own, nor does his circle seem to be a productive one. I said it in the thread about the suspension, I doubt Josh Gordon ever plays another down in the NFL. The suspension seems almost certain at this point, and looking at his history, I cannot imagine how anyone can confidently expect him to not only stay out of trouble and clean, but also stay focused on his skills and career. Josh Gordon with nothing but time on his hands strikes me as nothing short of a certain disaster.
It's a shame, but I think he's done. It sadly reminds me of Charles Rodgers. All the talent in the world, but self destructive as can be with nobody around him helping him change.
It's not about his 0.9 when 0.8 was the limit
It's not about the weed in the car not being his
It's about the fact that he continues to put himself in positions for this stuff to keep happening. He obviously cannot make good decisions on his own, nor does his circle seem to be a productive one. I said it in the thread about the suspension, I doubt Josh Gordon ever plays another down in the NFL. The suspension seems almost certain at this point, and looking at his history, I cannot imagine how anyone can confidently expect him to not only stay out of trouble and clean, but also stay focused on his skills and career. Josh Gordon with nothing but time on his hands strikes me as nothing short of a certain disaster.
It's a shame, but I think he's done. It sadly reminds me of Charles Rodgers. All the talent in the world, but self destructive as can be with nobody around him helping him change.
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
I don't see it as him sweeping it under the rug or excusing it but when u break it down it sucks for fantasy footballers but in the grand scheme of life Gordon is acting like a typical guy his age... He is stupid no doubtEdit to add... Should have said behavior typical of STUPID guys in their early 20s
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False Start
Footballguy
Has anyone seen Soulfly, he should be coming to get his apologies soon. LMFAO! Soulfly deserves all of the trash talk he gets, he defended this kid and acted like this stuff is a fluke with such certainty. However, he is nowhere to be found when every other time news came out he was quick to tell everyone how wrong they were.
squistion
Footballguy
Quite often, but that wasn't what Bloom actually said and to make the claim that he stated that most 23 year olds have the same rap sheet as Gordon when he was talking about maturity issues was a mischaracterization of his words/position and a Straw Man argument.
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mquinnjr
Footballguy
I mean, are we at the point where we can just go ahead and say, "They guy is done in this league, :IBTL: the thread/career?" Speculating on a supposed drug test failure while being monitored by the league, association with someone possessing marijuana while follow up pending on said drug test, and getting a DUI in the same time span while still waiting on said drug test follow up, seems like wasted key strokes at this point.
Absolute disappointment, but I'm done with this guy from a FF perspective. Anyone hanging on, still, seriously?
Absolute disappointment, but I'm done with this guy from a FF perspective. Anyone hanging on, still, seriously?
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Good grief....where do you people live where this is typical behavior. I guess if you're from the hood maybe. But believe it or not, the large majority don't live in the hood so "in the grand scheme of life" it is absolutely, without a doubt, not typical.
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amnesiac
beer is good
That's the thing though, NFL players are not typical 20 something's. Decisions like this destroy their prime earning years, which happen to be their 20's. Because of that, they have to hold themselves to a different standard.
A "typical" 20 something isn't risking near as much as an NFL player by smoking weed or getting a DUI.
You just can't compare NFL players to typical 20 something's. That is why the league provides so many resources for the players to be aware of the risks, and means to avoid the pitfalls.
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
He didn't say "maturity" any more times than he said "rap sheet." By maturity level, do you think Bloom meant the choices Gordon has made? Even in that case, Gordon is neither typical or standard.
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
Just curious... Did Gordon get to benefit from the rookie symposium when he came out?
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
I think we're splitting hairs. What's unfortunate to me is that Bloom seems to be lumping Gordon in with 20-year-olds and expressing indignation toward anyone who spoke ill of Gordon. And, to say Gordon's not a murderer?...Talk about a straw man.
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mquinnjr
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
not sure exactly when it started, but it's been around long enough that he should have gone through it.
squistion
Footballguy
Yes, it absolutely is about semantics . If people want to challenge what Bloom actually said, I got no issue with that. The problem is that it was taken a step further to include something I don't believe he ever intended by his comments (which was to imply that most guys Gordon's age also have a similar rap sheet). Talking about maturity issues is not the same as talking about an arrest record.
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amnesiac
beer is good
i guess i see what Bloom's saying to a point. Gordon doesn't seem to be a terrible human being, he's just very self destructive.
amnesiac
beer is good
maybe they go hand in hand?honestly sometimes i think good discussions around here go awry because of small discrepancies in how we communicate with each other.
have a good night.
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
No question the hyperbole escalated today. And, I don't know if Gordon is a terrible human being or not. But, there is a lot of real estate between (a) being a murderer (or a terrible human being) and (b) being highly irresponsible, not learning from past mistakes, and jeopardizing his future, let alone putting other people's lives in danger.
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
FWIW, I was using "rap sheet" as a euphemism, not in the literal sense. Rap sheet meaning his behaviors. Behaviors the result of his choices. His choices influenced by his lack of maturity, values, etc. As I said before, regardless of how you look at Gordon (his police record, his behaviors, his choices, his maturity level), there is nothing about Gordon that is standard or typical.
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squistion
Footballguy
mvereb
Footballguy
Oh brother.
Anyway, a lot of people in this thread are putting their 'PC Police' uniforms on tonight. Many act like they've never operated a vehicle after a few drinks with buddies at your favorite bar. I think a lot of us have been there before and I know some people that were pulled over and had to deal with the consequences. Ultimately, you deal with the consequences and then life goes on.
I think one of the major themes that gets lost in the shuffle is a lot of professional athletes come from rough backgrounds where they didn't have a lot of guidance and may confide in the 'wrong people'. It's not an excuse for their behavior, rather it's just a fact. Some athletes may feel a sense of loyalty to those with checkered backgrounds and may consider them to be close friends/family. To an outsider, we may not understand why they would associate with that person, but to that individual, they view them as someone they can trust. It doesn't make us right and them wrong...it's just a different way of life.
Outside of sports, we see countless young celebrities making stupid decisions. Whether it's with drugs, booze, or associates, we tend to shake our head and ridicule them for their mistakes. We hope they'll learn, but at the same time, we don't know what its like to be them.
As a football fan, I hope we get to see Josh Gordon on the field again soon. It's easy to pile on and predict doom and gloom like the rest of the media is. Rather, I'm going to let the legal process play out and see how the league rules at his appeal later this month.
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Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
You guys defending duis and saying .08 is bs are not only embarrassing yourselves but you may as well be carrying around an "I'm a moron sign"
Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.
Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending driving after drinking at any bac is too.
Try and tell us how your reaction time at .08 is just as fast as sober. Try and tell us how your ability to operative a vehicle at .08 is just as strong as your ability sober. Then go tell that to the countless number of husbands that lost wives to people driving at .08. Or all the parents that have lost children.
Bottom line is Gordon had the world in his fingertips and smoked, drank and drove it away. He's an immature idiot. And anyone defending driving after drinking at any bac is too.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
So aside from all the discussion about how bad or sick a guy he is....
....is it fair to say he is most likely out for the year, plus the suspension is now looming at "indefinite"? And then he has to stay clean into next year when he doesn't even seem to be able to handle himself now?
How long does CLE have him for under contract, through 2015?
is this Blackmon where he just goes away until we don't know when?
....is it fair to say he is most likely out for the year, plus the suspension is now looming at "indefinite"? And then he has to stay clean into next year when he doesn't even seem to be able to handle himself now?
How long does CLE have him for under contract, through 2015?
is this Blackmon where he just goes away until we don't know when?
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Run It Up
Footballguy
If you're looking for the next Josh Gordon, id recommend Dorial Green-Beckham.
If he can avoid being as dumb as Josh Gordon, kid might be the next Megatron.
If he can avoid being as dumb as Josh Gordon, kid might be the next Megatron.
I think hes done.
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It would seem this DUI won't have that big an impact on his current hearing, per Florio.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/06/gordons-dui-arrest-technically-irrelevant-to-pending-suspension/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/06/gordons-dui-arrest-technically-irrelevant-to-pending-suspension/
mvereb
Footballguy
He'll be a free agent after the 2015 season. His cap number is $1.4 million for 2014 and 2015. Cap hit is only $1.5 million if they cut him. Tough spot for the Browns. Cap hit is minimal if they cut him, but he still led the league in receiving yards last season and I don't think his DWI is franchise altering PR for the team. Plus the public is not privy to all of the details surrounding his appeal.
I think this story will lose steam once LeBron signs with the Cavs.
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Adam Harstad
Moderator
I'm not going to defend DUIs, but I will certainly say that DUIs are every bit as much of a societal failure as an individual failure. Restaurants make most of their money off of their liquor licenses, so every time anyone goes out to dinner, they get upsold on alcoholic beverages- everyone in the party, even when clearly one member must be the person responsible for driving. I have yet to hear of a restaurant that refused to serve anyone enough alcohol to get them over the legal limit. Movies glamorize situations like going out for drinks with friends that are almost certain to result in someone driving while over the legal limit. Often workplaces will have office happy hours, despite the fact that nearly every person who attends will be driving himself or herself. Avoiding these social events often carry negative repercussions to one's career prospects, and anyone who attends is the subject of peer pressure (much of it implicit) to consume alcohol.
Obviously no one forces anyone to drink and drive, but we certainly live in a society that glamorizes the processes that LEAD to a DUI, and where restaurants have a strong financial incentive to engage in behaviors that maximize the number of people driving while intoxicated. I even agree that, if everyone who ever drove while over the legal limit was caught and ticketed, we'd be looking at maybe 80% of the country with DUIs on their record. If we really want to clean up our DUI problem, we should probably spend less time worrying about where we're setting the legal limit and spend more time trying to discourage the situations that lead to people feeling like it's an acceptable idea to drink (any amount at all) and drive in the first place.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Yeah I'd buy for dirt cheap/sell for anything worth a ####. Dudes prolly done.
Oh well #teamsoulfly it was a good run.
Oh well #teamsoulfly it was a good run.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I can drink a lot of alcohol and still maintain a rational prescence on a message board that does not embarrass me, unlike some sober people with emotional tendencies.
Have you ever futzed around with your cell phone while driving?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
How is the weather up there on your high horse?
I'd say reaction time at .08 is fine...
mvereb
Footballguy
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