Official Sam Bradford - QB (6 Viewers)

Rotoworld:

The Rams "clearly" intend to be more "high octane" on offense in 2013.



This season is being classified as Sam Bradford's "make or break" year, and the Rams have surrounded him with legitimate, young weapons. As our own Evan Silva noted in his "Jared Cook: Seam Stretcher" piece earlier this month, we expect OC Brian Schottenheimer to make the four-wide package his base offensive look with Cook and first-rounder Tavon Austin manning the slots and second-year receivers Brian Quick and Chris Givens on the outside. Bradford has yet to throw for 4,000 yards in a season, but this is the year he could do it.

Source: stlouisrams.com

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Is this the only Sam Bradford thread?

As a former overall No. 1 pick, shouldn't this be getting better?

G: 42

GS: 42

Rec.: 15-26-1

Cmp%: 58.3

TD/INT: 45/34

TD%: 3.0

Int%: 2.3

Y/A: 6.3

Y/C: 10.7

YPG: 223.3

Rate: 77.3

Sacks: 105 (actually not as many as I had thought)

Sack%: 6.6

Game Winning Drives: 4

For all the criticism of guys like Gabbert and Ponder, I wonder if Bradford doesn't belong on the same watch list. Actually statistically Ponder (4.0 TD%) and Gabbert (3.0 TD%) seem to have some similarities?

The lack of WR/TE talent seems to have been a legit excuse the last few years but that seems to be rapidly changing. When I watch these three, I never have personally had the sense that Bradford was overwhelmed, or occasionally just "bad," like I have with Gabbert, and yet he is where he is.

The Shutdown Corner NFC West draft review podcast with Greg Cosell

By Doug Farrar

On how receiver Tavon Austin will change the Rams' offense: "As soon as they made that pick, and I was doing radio that night at the draft, I said that the Rams [will go with a more wide-open offense." Keep in mind what the Rams' personnel is. They have two tight ends who can move in Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks. They've got Tavon Austin. They've got Chris Givens, who a lot of people have forgotten about, but that kid can run. Everyone's talked about Chip Kelly and the speed offense, and taking nothing away from him, but in Sam Bradford's Heisman year, Oklahoma scored 60-plus points five or six weeks in a row, and I think they averaged 82 plays a game. Bradford's played in that, and they don't have what you'd call a feature back. So to me, everything about their skill positions signifies hurry-up, spread, tempo, speed to get guys in space."

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SaintsInDome2006 said:

Is this the only Sam Bradford thread?

As a former overall No. 1 pick, shouldn't this be getting better?

G: 42

GS: 42

Rec.: 15-26-1

Cmp%: 58.3

TD/INT: 45/34

TD%: 3.0

Int%: 2.3

Y/A: 6.3

Y/C: 10.7

YPG: 223.3

Rate: 77.3

Sacks: 105 (actually not as many as I had thought)

Sack%: 6.6

Game Winning Drives: 4

For all the criticism of guys like Gabbert and Ponder, I wonder if Bradford doesn't belong on the same watch list. Actually statistically Ponder (4.0 TD%) and Gabbert (3.0 TD%) seem to have some similarities?

The lack of WR/TE talent seems to have been a legit excuse the last few years but that seems to be rapidly changing. When I watch these three, I never have personally had the sense that Bradford was overwhelmed, or occasionally just "bad," like I have with Gabbert, and yet he is where he is.

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Those are his career stats. He's only been in the league 3 years, so even one horrible season (2011) will skew those numbers heavily.

Last season, he actually progressed fairly well. He had the highest YPA of his career (6.72). He threw over 20 TDs (21) and his TD/INT ration wasn't too bad (21/13).

He played better than he did in 2010 when he won ROY.

Jackson was a really good RB, but aside from him, the Rams haven't had a legitimate playmaker at a skill position on the team since Bradford has been there. Here are the Rams leading receivers in Braford's 3 seasons:

2010: Danny Amendola - 85/689/3

2011: Brandon Gibson - 36/431/1

2012: Chris Givens - 42/698/3

That is some sad sack receiving right there.

At the very least, they'll have a new look at the WR/TE position. I haven't seen enough or know enough to determine whether guys like Quick (2nd - 2012), Austin (1st - 2013), Cook (FA), Bailey (3rd - 2013), Pettis (3rd - 2011), Kendricks (2nd - 2011) and Givens (4th - 2012) are the answer, but the Rams sure have invested premium picks to get Bradford help.

I'll give him one more year, but if he doesn't progress this year, it might be time for the Rams to look at other options.

It really feels like a make or break year for Bradford, but he's not on Ponder's or Gabbert's level.

Faust said:

The Shutdown Corner NFC West draft review podcast with Greg Cosell

By Doug Farrar

On how receiver Tavon Austin will change the Rams' offense: "As soon as they made that pick, and I was doing radio that night at the draft, I said that the Rams [will go with a more wide-open offense." Keep in mind what the Rams' personnel is. They have two tight ends who can move in Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks. They've got Tavon Austin. They've got Chris Givens, who a lot of people have forgotten about, but that kid can run. Everyone's talked about Chip Kelly and the speed offense, and taking nothing away from him, but in Sam Bradford's Heisman year, Oklahoma scored 60-plus points five or six weeks in a row, and I think they averaged 82 plays a game. Bradford's played in that, and they don't have what you'd call a feature back. So to me, everything about their skill positions signifies hurry-up, spread, tempo, speed to get guys in space."

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Man I'm so torn on this. I really like Bradford, and all the moves are pointing to it. But then you see Jeff Fisher and Brian Shottenheimer on the sidelines.

RBM said:

Faust said:

The Shutdown Corner NFC West draft review podcast with Greg Cosell

By Doug Farrar

On how receiver Tavon Austin will change the Rams' offense: "As soon as they made that pick, and I was doing radio that night at the draft, I said that the Rams [will go with a more wide-open offense." Keep in mind what the Rams' personnel is. They have two tight ends who can move in Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks. They've got Tavon Austin. They've got Chris Givens, who a lot of people have forgotten about, but that kid can run. Everyone's talked about Chip Kelly and the speed offense, and taking nothing away from him, but in Sam Bradford's Heisman year, Oklahoma scored 60-plus points five or six weeks in a row, and I think they averaged 82 plays a game. Bradford's played in that, and they don't have what you'd call a feature back. So to me, everything about their skill positions signifies hurry-up, spread, tempo, speed to get guys in space."

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Man I'm so torn on this. I really like Bradford, and all the moves are pointing to it. But then you see Jeff Fisher and Brian Shottenheimer on the sidelines.

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Except both tend to lean on pounding the ball. Who's going to do that? TRich or Pead? Both under 200 pounds. 5th rounder Stacy? Terrance Gannaway?

I don't know how they keep from going to a vertical offense? There is no ground and pound available to them with that personnel. Time will tell, but Bradford seems like a lock for 4000 yards based on attempts alone...

TheFanatic said:

RBM said:

Faust said:

The Shutdown Corner NFC West draft review podcast with Greg Cosell

By Doug Farrar

On how receiver Tavon Austin will change the Rams' offense: "As soon as they made that pick, and I was doing radio that night at the draft, I said that the Rams [will go with a more wide-open offense." Keep in mind what the Rams' personnel is. They have two tight ends who can move in Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks. They've got Tavon Austin. They've got Chris Givens, who a lot of people have forgotten about, but that kid can run. Everyone's talked about Chip Kelly and the speed offense, and taking nothing away from him, but in Sam Bradford's Heisman year, Oklahoma scored 60-plus points five or six weeks in a row, and I think they averaged 82 plays a game. Bradford's played in that, and they don't have what you'd call a feature back. So to me, everything about their skill positions signifies hurry-up, spread, tempo, speed to get guys in space."

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Man I'm so torn on this. I really like Bradford, and all the moves are pointing to it. But then you see Jeff Fisher and Brian Shottenheimer on the sidelines.

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Except both tend to lean on pounding the ball. Who's going to do that? TRich or Pead? Both under 200 pounds. 5th rounder Stacy? Terrance Gannaway?

I don't know how they keep from going to a vertical offense? There is no ground and pound available to them with that personnel. Time will tell, but Bradford seems like a lock for 4000 yards based on attempts alone...

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But are they capable of drawing up and calling a successful spread offense? Neither has any experience in doing so.

Rotoworld:

Rams OC Brian Schottenheimer believes Sam Bradford is "a thousand years" ahead of where he was a year ago.
"The day Sam walked back into the building (this offseason) we started making adjustments," Schottenheimer said. 2013 marks the first time in Bradford's four-year career that he's had the same coordinator as the previous season. A lack of continuity has been just one of the reasons for Bradford's slow progression, but we believe he could eclipse 4,000 yards after coming up 298 yards short last season. Coming off a hot finish to 2012, the Rams have upgraded Bradford's line while surrounding him with more explosive weapons.


Source: ESPN.com

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Rotoworld:

After 2012 tape study, ESPN's Ron Jaworski cites Sam Bradford's "lack of efficiency in the red zone" and his "struggles with basic blitz concepts" as things holding him back.
"Too many interceptions," Jaworski continued. "And it's a red zone game. You can't be a high-level quarterback if you can't execute there." Over the course of his first three seasons, Bradford has completed just 46.4 percent of his red zone passes for 541 yards, 29 touchdowns, and eight interceptions. The eight interceptions is second-most in the league over that span, one behind Eli Manning. Jaws says "there's never been a question about Bradford's arm talent," and added that he has the "throwing skill set to be a top-ten passer in this league." The Rams hope that supplying him with better weapons helps correct most of the issues the offense has near the end zone.

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*** Edit - I think that the 29 TDs is a typo

Those are some significant issues for Bradford. If you can't identify blitzes with pre snap reads, you won't have success in this league.

Beerguzzler said:

Those are some significant issues for Bradford. If you can't identify blitzes with pre snap reads, you won't have success in this league.

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I completely agree with you. And while Jaws makes the leap that the interceptions are based on lack of ability to read the blitz schemes. Could it also be that he's throwing to the likes of Brandon Gibson and whatever other schlubs they could find off the street? Or in particular, everyone on Defense knows it's going to Amendola because nobody else can catch?

Bradford has not been given weapons to be succesful in his career. The list of weapons he has is very weak.

S. Jackson was best weapon as he could run the ball and take pressure off Bradford and could also catch ball out of backfield. His value was hurt by the OL not being very good with Bradford there.

Amedola was the best WR on the team but he has also been hurt a lot decreasing his time with Bradford. Quick and Givens might develop but they have a ways to go. Austin could be a big weapon in the slot but he is still a rookie and has a lot to do before we can all him a weapon.

Cook and Hendricks both have a ton of potential as they are great athletes but will they ever pull it together.

Rams have ton of upside is they players develop in the passing game, but right now there are too many questions for the burden of Ram failures tp be place all on Bradfors's shoulders.

Faust said:

Rotoworld:

After 2012 tape study, ESPN's Ron Jaworski cites Sam Bradford's "lack of efficiency in the red zone" and his "struggles with basic blitz concepts" as things holding him back.
"Too many interceptions," Jaworski continued. "And it's a red zone game. You can't be a high-level quarterback if you can't execute there." Over the course of his first three seasons, Bradford has completed just 46.4 percent of his red zone passes for 541 yards, 29 touchdowns, and eight interceptions. The eight interceptions is second-most in the league over that span, one behind Eli Manning. Jaws says "there's never been a question about Bradford's arm talent," and added that he has the "throwing skill set to be a top-ten passer in this league." The Rams hope that supplying him with better weapons helps correct most of the issues the offense has near the end zone.

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*** Edit - I think that the 29 TDs is a typo

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So Jaworski used a Superbowl caliber QB to negatively compare to Bradford....

Red zone stats for QBs have always shown WRs they have a good rapport with and if they don't they struggle some. I don't think that will ever change regardless who the QB is.

Rotoworld:

Sam Bradford's red zone passer rating was 101.8 over the Rams' final eight games last season.
That's after Bradford owned a 62.5 red zone QB rating going into the Rams' Week 9 bye. Bradford's red-zone efficiency has been a topic of discussion after ESPN's Ron Jaworski knocked it in his annual quarterback ranks. Per reporter Bernie Miklasz, Bradford's red zone TD:INT ratio spiked to 9:1 in the second half after it rested at 4:2 through Week 8. Bradford's play was noticeably improved down the stretch last season, and his increased competence near the goal line was a big reason why. We're optimistic about his QB2 prospects.


Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch

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2013 Jaws QB ranking: Bradford 22nd

By Mike Sando | ESPN.com

Listening

to St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford's conversation with KREF SportsTalk 1400 in his native Oklahoma reminded me to revisit Ron Jaworski's ongoing series ranking NFL starters.

A few words from Jaworski regarding the Rams' fourth-year starter:

"Bradford has always been a talented thrower. In 2012, he took some sure and steady steps forward as he rebounded from a poor 2011 season.

"There's never been a question about Bradford’s arm talent. He has a strong arm with the ability to make every single throw. He can drive the ball down the field and when he’s comfortable and confident in the pocket, he throws with consistent accuracy.

"Bradford has underrated movement. He can get out of the pocket and use his legs to find room to throw. And he's always been effective off boot action. The bottom line is that Bradford has the throwing skill set to be a top-10 passer in this league.

"What are the concerns when I study Bradford? A lack of efficiency in the red zone. Too many interceptions. And it’s a red zone game. You can’t be a high-level quarterback if you can’t execute there. Bradford at times still struggles with basic blitz concepts that a player with his experience level should understand. This interception against the Vikings was a great example.

"Bradford must eliminate the mistakes that diminish the impact of his ability. This season I would expect a little bit different Rams’ offense. With the talent they now have at the skill positions, don’t be surprised to see more spread with Bradford in the shotgun, a faster tempo, just like Bradford’s days at Oklahoma."

Arizona's Carson Palmer was 23rd in Jaworski's ratings. Jaworski has revealed the starters ranked 13th through 32nd without featuring the San Francisco 49ers' Colin Kaepernick or the Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson. The chart includes 2012 Total QBR figures for the quarterbacks Jaworksi has ranked to this point. Matt Flynn and Kevin Kolb did not have enough plays to qualify for inclusion in various rankings, but I have provided their QBR scores anyway.

We've covered Bradford quite a bit this offseason, including earlier Wednesday. A recent take from Bernie Miklasz included additional perspective regarding Bradford's play in the red zone. As Bernie notes, Bradford improved in that area later in the 2012 season, after coaches helped implement some adjustments.

Bradford posted an 86.2 Total QBR score in the red zone over the Rams' final eight games. That figure ranked 12th in the NFL and was above the 67.1 average for 32 qualifying quarterbacks. Wilson was first (98.8), Kaepernick was 23rd (39.1) and Palmer was 27th (18.3) in that category over the same span.

That 86.2 figure for Bradford was up from a 4.7 QBR score in the red zone over the Rams' first eight games. That number ranked 33rd out of 34 qualifying quarterbacks over that span. Alex Smith was seventh (78.7), Palmer was 12th (61.7), Kolb was 16th (56.3) and Wilson was 26th (15.7) over their teams' first eight games of the season.

Red zone sample sizes are somewhat limited when reduced to half a season. Qualifying players averaged 40 red zone action plays over their teams' first eight games and 38 over their teams' final eight games.

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Rotoworld:

Sam Bradford and 11 other teammates have gathered at the University of Oklahoma to work out together.
Bradford and Jared Cook are leading a group that includes Tavon Austin, Brian Quick, Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, and Isaiah Pead among others. The young core of Rams skill position players hope to have their timing down with Bradford prior to arriving to camp. It's a similar approach to what the division-rival Cardinals are doing to eliminate any wasted time once camp starts.

Source: Aaron Wilson on Twitter

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Faust said:

Rotoworld:

Sam Bradford and 11 other teammates have gathered at the University of Oklahoma to work out together.
Bradford and Jared Cook are leading a group that includes Tavon Austin, Brian Quick, Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, and Isaiah Pead among others. The young core of Rams skill position players hope to have their timing down with Bradford prior to arriving to camp. It's a similar approach to what the division-rival Cardinals are doing to eliminate any wasted time once camp starts.

Source: Aaron Wilson on Twitter

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this is the second time they did this this offseason

crossroads season by bernie miklasz...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/it-s-a-key-crossroads-season-for-rams-qb-bradford/article_42bd75cf-ccbe-55f7-8c82-41f41f57118f.html

The other night, in a conversation with a friend, the topic turned to Rams quarterback Sam Bradford.

What kind of season will he have? Is he ready to make a leap to elite status among NFL quarterbacks?

Here’s what I truly believe: watch out.

In his first three NFL seasons Bradford was bloodied and bruised but he still is standing, and in 2013 he’ll be in a fair fight for the first time in his NFL career.

The hard knocks of the NFL couldn’t kill Bradford. He took a merciless beating after joining the worst NFL franchise as the NFL’s No. 1 draft pick in 2010. But it didn’t wreck his body or drain his morale.

From 2010 through 2012, Bradford was sacked 105 times, or more than all but four NFL quarterbacks.

According to Pro Football Focus, no NFL quarterback absorbed more hits while delivering a throw than

Bradford over the past three seasons, and only a few teams dropped more passes than the Rams.

Bradford has started 42 games for the Rams, and over that relatively brief time he’s played for two owners, two head coaches, two general managers and three offensive coordinators.

He’s thrown to 11 different starters at wide receiver, and seven starters at tight end. His pass protection suffered during a turnstile count that put six different starters at offensive tackle, six starters at guard and four at center.

Bradford is 15-26-1 as a starter. Somehow, that record was all Bradford’s fault — well, at least to his most impatient critics.

Bradford spent most of the past three seasons operating under the worst possible circumstances for an NFL quarterback. If you drew up a plot to ruin a career, this would have been it.

Bradford took all of the punches, took the unfair criticism, took the misdirected blame. He survived all of it.

And now he’s working in a stable program led by Jeff Fisher, a terrific head coach.

In my view the blows made Bradford stronger. You never know what people are made of unless they’re confronted by adversity. And Bradford was steam-rolled by it.

But as he prepares to enter his fourth season, things are changing for Bradford.

The NFL couldn’t break Bradford, and now he’s poised for a breakout year.

And now — finally — help is on the way.

Last year the Rams drafted two gifted wide receivers, Brian Quick and Chris Givens. This year they drafted two more playmakers, Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey.

The Rams signed Jake Long, a four-time Pro Bowl left offensive tackle. They signed tight end Jared Cook, an all-terrain vehicle capable of muscling defenders inside or running deep.

The Rams have two other promising young targets in third-year tight end Lance Kendricks and third-year slot receiver Austin Pettis. They began making plays in 2012, combining for nine touchdown catches

Sure, this fun bunch is inexperienced. At age 26, Cook will be the oldest wide receiver, running back or tight end on the likely regular-season roster.

And so what?

After what Bradford has been through, he’s thrilled to be surrounded by enhanced talent —even if none of the skill-position players have started more than 24 NFL games.

“I’ve been waiting for this, just wanting to see this offense succeed and maybe do some things we haven’t been able to in the past,” Bradford told USA Today last month.

In terms of knowledge, Rams offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer described Bradford as being “a thousand years” ahead of where he was a year ago in his first season of working with Schottenheimer.

The buildup puts more pressure on Bradford to emerge as more of a difference maker, and winner, in 2013.

Bradford made significant strides last year, a reality that escaped the notice of too many short-attention spans.

Bradford was one of the league’s best red-zone quarterbacks over the final eight games, throwing for nine touchdowns and one interception for a passer rating of 101.8.

Bradford’s QBR rating — the advanced ESPN model for assessing quarterback play —jumped 10 points over final eight games.

Bradford ranked 10th among starting quarterbacks in fourth-quarter passer rating, leading the Rams to four fourth-quarter comebacks and three game-winning drives. Only two NFL quarterbacks had more fourth-quarter comebacks, and only five had more game-winning drives.

According to Pro Football Focus, Bradford was among the most accurate passers on deep balls in 2012, and he graded well for his accuracy when under pass-rush pressure.

Bradford improved when his pass protection firmed up —hardly a coincidence in a team sport.

In the first eight games last season, Bradford endured the fifth-highest sack rate among NFL quarterbacks and had eight touchdowns and seven interceptions.

In the last eight games, Bradford benefited from the fifth-lowest sack rate and responded with 13 touchdowns and six interceptions. The Rams went 4-2 down the stretch, with Bradford commanding the offense to a pair of game-winning drives.

Bradford passed for more touchdowns than Detroit’s Matthew Stafford — and Stafford has the game’s best receiving weapon in Calvin Johnson.

Bradford passed for one fewer touchdown than Baltimore’s Joe Flacco, who ultimately led the Ravens to the Super Bowl title.

One national pundit recently compared Bradford’s 2012 regular-season stats to Flacco’s and was astounded to discover there wasn’t much difference.

Well, except for this: Flacco played for a much better team.

The old perceptions remain, however.

As retired NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb said last week on the NFL Network: “It’s time for you to flourish, before you get put in that Mark Sanchez category. Sam Bradford, it’s time for you to step up.”

Those of us who study NFL history have seen this career arc before. Many heralded quarterback prospects needed time to reach their potential.

Here are the names of 11 Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Jim Kelly, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, Bob Griese, Frank Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, Steve Young, Sonny Jurgensen and Bart Starr.

In their first three NFL seasons, they combined to win 116 of 336 games.

That’s a winning percentage of 34.5.

Bradford’s winning percentage in his first three seasons: 35.7.

Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, and Drew Brees aren’t Hall of Famers, but they won Super Bowls.

Here are their records in the first three seasons as NFL starters: Simms 14-20, Plunkett 14-28, Williams 19-22, and Brees 10-17.

Granted, for every Troy Aikman and Phil Simms there are a dozen David Carrs.

As Bradford enters 2013 he’s standing at an intersection. One road leads toward Aikman, and the other takes him down the path where careers have crashed.

Bradford already is headed in the right direction; it’s just that people haven’t noticed. But they will in 2013.

We discussed plenty in this thread, it's three pages. I still like Bradford.

Off the field type stuff, personality, just being a "gentleman"...At OU, the guy didn't just do everything right, there were always nice stories of him helping someone less fortunate. ALOT of stories like pro QBs where he visited this kid in the hospital or helped this cancer organization or whatever....he wasn't in the NFL yet and he only had a short time at OU as "the man." Then there was stories how he stayed late with DEs or a K and I was like huh? If you were a Sooner working out alone, he'd go do his best to workout with ya even if he didn't know the position so much; he'd "be there" for you. When he was supposed to meet boosters (those wealthy that donate to OU) he'd go to some charitable type thing without forewarning them so they were like stuck having to go. "He's gonna get me to donate to cancer today too isn't he" type sentiment from them. He knew reporters names because he wanted to be able to talk to them freely and thought this would help.

On the field, the stories weren't the traditional ones like he was a great leader, it was more like everyone loved him or he's their best friend and they did not want to let him down.

At the time, Tebow would lead Florida to a national championship and all the religious stuff was (IMO) the best intentioned good will toward others and ...I think Bradford's off the field stuff just became buried under the Tebow praise.

The reporters in OUs pressbox looked like they were talking about their son they were so proud of. They all had different stories and I was floored hearing them. After the game, I called a couple FBG staffers and they probably wished I'd shush, I couldn't stop talking about Bradford the person; telling those stories I heard.

I want Bradford to do well in a big way. It's hard not to like a guy that has found a unique way to be super nice and thoughtful.

As a rookie, (prob mentioned earlier in the thread) I watched oh so many people here say that they didn't like him in preseason but when they got to see him actually play, OMG does he place the ball perfectly or throw a pretty bomb or ....something where when they got the chance to see him they were impressed.

The last couple years, I've been concerned. I do recall some awesome QB prospects turning into shell-shocked QBs that weren't worth much. Young people here mention Tim Couch or David Carr and weren't active football fans then to realize they were top prospects and they set way too many sack records. You couldn't watch a game without thinking "ouch." Bledsoe overcame and had a decent pro career that made him one of the best compilers. Rick Mirer ...I remember a friend saying "he looks like a scared girl"....would fumble at such an alarmingly high rate after taking a ton of sacks. Jim Kelly and Trent Dilfer, they put their shoulder down and gave a little something to their sacker. Kelly didn't take a lot of sacks for long, just saying. Akili Smith was one of the most athletic prospects ever at QB and he would use his speed to run away from one defender and OMG get destroyed by another. He had this sad knack for running right into so many enormous hits. I don't think we ever saw Akili not scared and playing football. His career was super short. Peyton not only got beat up with hits. Eli is still one of the worst rookie QBs I've ever seen.

When young Peyton had time to throw BB (or another DC) would have some new scheme to trick him into throwing an INT. The NFL created a monster testing Peyton every which way, by his 4th year he probably literally saw everything and had every scheme run against him in any variation possible. I'm not at all surprised Peyton became as great as he has. Eli totally shocked me and kudos to him for doing so well and overcoming.

We don't really have a way to prepare young QBs to get slammed by these LBs that have to look like wild beasts bearing down on them. There's no way to say, until your team gets a good OL, safeties are going to be excited to blitz and try to pop your head off with a hit like it was some video game.

I think Bradford is doing what it takes, even if we don't really have a way to say you should do this or that.

Bradford this offseason is still impressing me. Whatever you want to see a young QB do, he's done. In addition to all the time working out, taking linemen out to dinner, buying them presents, private workouts with WRs for bonding and timing, extra time in film room with coaches, staying late to work with new WRs....everything has been so perfect.

Recently I heard a story about Landry Jones and how Bradford is trying so hard to help him. Jones is a backup with the Steelers, but Bradford supposedly picked apart last year's OU tape correcting things and is telling him to be ready for this and that and...he's like being a big brother to Landry.

So what I've been told is that Landry tried to pay for some of these Rams hotel rooms, but Bradford wouldn't have it (nor would the folks at the hotel but...). Landry then offered to pay for this and that and Bradford would have none of it. So Bradford turns around and has someone at OU contact the Steelers and see if Landry can't get permission to come join in. Their reply was something like Landry was that it wouldn't be proper but he was planning to work out with the Steelers himself.

So Jones, who has really struggled just in minicamps thus far but was a pretty good college QB himself, was visited by some former Steelers. There to work with him, they about dragged him out of bed and had an impromptu workout. He is sure Bradford found a way to get that done, sent them there, somehow paid them...somehow Bradford was behind it. They wouldn't tell him what lead them there just that they had to workout. It could have been the Steelers, sure could, but I think every OU fan would swear that had to be Bradford's doing.

Thanks for reading my ramble if you've got this far. Bradford is a special person, a genuinely unique kindness to him. I think what happens is you get to know him the tiniest bit or read enough about him and you just want good things to happen for this guy. He's not normal and when you read things like Fisher wanted to be able to coach him so he chose the Rams or "I'm excited to play with Bradford" by some rook, maybe it's time to dig a little deeper and google a little more on Bradford. The press spent so much time on Tebow, so many missed stories of one of the nicest guys. There's enough sentiment in this thread or during the game threads last year when he didn't do so well where people are asking why there's so many sticking up for him as he throws his third INT or somesuch....this is why. Once you find out some about the guy, it's hard not to root for him.

Here's to hoping he's shaken off all those hits....I think he's two years away from playing at a top level and this year will just be an improvement...if his detractors are right though, I doubt he's cut or waived. They'll keep him as a backup and keep that personality around. I really though don't in anyway see the Rams giving up on him. Maybe the season will wear on and he'll struggle and it'll become apparent, but right now-no way no how. They're still under his spell wishing all the best for him. That would have to change for what you detractors want to happen, to actually happen.

Thanks for the insight Bri. I like Bradford. I also agree with the comparisons you've made, and that shell shocked is a good way to put it when it comes to Bradford's last couple of seasons. Can Bradford overcome it like the Mannings, or is he more like David Carr? Even somewhere in between is murky. This is a huge year for Bradford.

The guy he needs to mentoring under his wing is Tavon Austin. Those two need to become the new hot item for Bradford to take it to the next level.

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/7/12/4518520/sam-bradford-tavon-austin-st-louis-rams-2013-nfl-offseason-workouts

Here's a pic someone posted, lots of comments below.

Is he out of town yet?

I Forgot How Beautiful A Deep Pass Bradford Throws

partly because he was running for his life a lot, and didn't always have the kind of receiving weapons that could leverage this exceptional skill of bradford's... i remember after his pro day workout, scouts like DAL legend gil brandt who had been following things like this for decades and knew of what they spoke, were in awe, and said it was maybe the best or second best workout of its kind they had ever seen (not sure if other was somebody like elway?)... typically, few balls hit the ground during these highly scripted and contrived affairs... nonetheless, they noted the ridiculously pinpoint nature of his precision and accuracy was spooky, preternatural-like...

below is ostensibly a givens (a rare WR capable of leveraging bradford's elite, blue chip skill in this regard) rookie season cutup... check out the TD at the 1.45 mark... bradford lofts the 55 yards in the air effortlessly, and hits givens on the button... there is something about the arc trajectory and the air he gets on it, allowing givens to run underneath it and let it fall from the sky right in the bread basket, that can be appreciated on the level of heightened athletic artistry like a spectacular julius erving dunk...

highlight commentary archaeology dept. - you can hear mike mayock, not completely submerged under the beats and grooves of the rap (hey, that's not a bad idea - mayock could be a great rapper), audibly notes bradford's accuracy on the deep ball is as good as ANYBODY in football...

on the play that starts at the 2:40 mark, the ball again travels about 55 yards in the air... but bradford this time throws it with a flatter trajectory (though still enough loft to get it over two DBs in coverage) and got it to givens faster, as he otherwise would have run out of field... the window was smaller from when he broke free to when he needed to deliver it...

i didn't realize how fast givens is (frank coyle's scouting guide briefly in passing noted a generic "track background" reference, naturally prompting me to explore HOW fast... uncharacteristic of coyle, BTW, as he usually bludgeons you with a wealth of detail... i mean that in a good way )... i think he had a personal best 10.4 100 m, and was at one time the fourth fastest prep in state of texas (to me, states like texas, florida and california are inherently more impressive than states like wyoming, rhode island, etc., speaking to far larger numbers of competition needed to get through to reach the top)... he has torn ACL twice (not sure different knees ?)... givens has been characterized by some scouts as having some mike wallace in him (just as bailey has been called CAR steve smith-like for attacking and fighting for the ball in the air, taking it away from bigger defenders at times)...

not sure if austin will run a lot of these kind of routes, think more short/intermediate, welker-like... but givens will, and i can see cook and his freakish-for-a-TE, vernon davis-like 4.4 used in this capacity as well... looked like bailey was employed on a lot of deep routes at WV as well (good geno also throws a nice pass, if not as textbook as bradford), in his highlights...

needless to say, the addition of former #1 overall (like bradford) LT jake long, if healthy, will help keep bradford not only upright, but help him to step into passes like the one at the 1:45 mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtAkOblXq-o

Rotoworld:

Sam Bradford is in the second year of an offense for the first time in his NFL career.
In Bradford's first three seasons, he learned three different schemes. "It's amazing how much difference it makes when you're not having to learn an offense," he said. "I don't think the average fan realizes what it's like trying to learn something as opposed to fine tuning it." Thanks to continuity and the Rams' vastly improved weaponry, Bradford is an interesting QB2 prospect. He went 5-of-8 for 102 yards with a touchdown in the preseason opener.


Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch

Click to expand...

Bob Magaw said:

i didn't realize how fast givens is (frank coyle's scouting guide briefly in passing noted a generic "track background" reference, naturally prompting me to explore HOW fast... uncharacteristic of coyle, BTW, as he usually bludgeons you with a wealth of detail... i mean that in a good way

)... i think he had a personal best 10.4 100 m, and was at one time the fourth fastest prep in state of texas (to me, states like texas, florida and california are inherently more impressive than states like wyoming, rhode island, etc., speaking to far larger numbers of competition needed to get through to reach the top)... he has torn ACL twice (not sure different knees ?)... givens has been characterized by some scouts as having some mike wallace in him (just as bailey has been called CAR steve smith-like for attacking and fighting for the ball in the air, taking it away from bigger defenders at times)...

Click to expand...

Right - Jr year HS

Left - Sr year HS

I don't know if citing his 100m time in HS means much. It's been a long time since then; bodies change and there are probably many WRs that could run a 10.4 100m. That's close to running a 4.45 40...............................................................................

MoveToSkypager said:

Bob Magaw said:

i didn't realize how fast givens is (frank coyle's scouting guide briefly in passing noted a generic "track background" reference, naturally prompting me to explore HOW fast... uncharacteristic of coyle, BTW, as he usually bludgeons you with a wealth of detail... i mean that in a good way

)... i think he had a personal best 10.4 100 m, and was at one time the fourth fastest prep in state of texas (to me, states like texas, florida and california are inherently more impressive than states like wyoming, rhode island, etc., speaking to far larger numbers of competition needed to get through to reach the top)... he has torn ACL twice (not sure different knees ?)... givens has been characterized by some scouts as having some mike wallace in him (just as bailey has been called CAR steve smith-like for attacking and fighting for the ball in the air, taking it away from bigger defenders at times)...

Click to expand...

Right - Jr year HS

Left - Sr year HS

I don't know if citing his 100m time in HS means much. It's been a long time since then; bodies change and there are probably many WRs that could run a 10.4 100m. That's close to running a 4.45 40...............................................................................

Click to expand...

i think he was one of the fastest sprinters in state(TX) as prep*, that is pretty fast...

so i'm not sure there were a lot of WRs THEN capable of 10.4, by your rationale, their bodies would have changed, too... i don't think you are saying givens would have slowed down and other track stars would have retained their speed or sped up, not not sure what you mean?

not sure what you mean by many WRs, if you mean high school, he was one of fastest in his state, so how many could there have been?

you are right, there are a lot of fast people in NFL, and some of them were elite prep sprinters... i forget his name, but USC RB that was son of huggy bear on starsky and hutch was i think fastest prep in CA... i think reggie bush was in top 5... another USC all american and 1.7 pick by bears, WR curtis conway, was a track star at hawthorne high, and won state as senior with 10.4... perhaps my track knowledge is more regional, or maybe i just follow USC more closely than some other schools (or used to), than again, maybe over the years USC has been able to recruit a lot of elite athletes (further back, OJ simpson had borderline world class speed and was on record setting USC 4 X 100 relay team)...

in this class, tennessee teammates had track star speed... justin hunter, in addition to being world class (in age group) long jumper and elite high jumper, had personal best 10.5 (arguably more impressive than givens at 6'4")... patterson as JUCO ran variously reported and ranging from 10.3 (dubious?) to 10.5... unlike hunter, who has probably done track competitively since grade school, patterson didn't have extensive formal block or start technique training... it would be very interesting to see what he could have been capable of if he had high level track coaching and competed since prep days...

andre johnson is a freakish athlete and size/speed physical specimen... at 6'3" 230 (not sure if he was in college, maybe more like 220?) he won big east 100 m with 10.29...

former oregon star lamichael james (current SF RB) finished fifth in pac 10 with 10.5 100 m.

another WR from class of 2013, marcus wheaton, beat another oregon football/track star, deanthony thomas... wheaton has best of 10.58, thomas 10.3 (los angeles star won regional meets, best he did in state was around 6th?)

anyways, clocking in 10.4 100 meters is pretty fast, whether in curtis conway's time, or now... not sure i would say LOTS of WRs could do it, some of those cited above were pretty good, or are pretty good prospects... again, not sure what you mean by many, but do any pro WRs come immediately to mind that are a lot faster, or as fast?

imo, not just givens track but his football speed isn't very much in dispute... he has been compared by some scouts (frank coyle?) to mike wallace...

in catching a 50+ yard pass five weeks in a row, he broke a nearly 30 year old record (1983) set by another track star, willie gault... he was record setting SEC hurdler, won ncaa indoor 60 m hurdles and 60 m, was part of world record 4 X 100 relay team, and would have gone to the olympics if he didn't have misfortune of starring when US boycotted olympics (he was later an olympic bobsledder)... wiki page states best of 9.95 100 m., but didn't attempt to verify (not sure when US track converted from 100 yards to 100 meters... prep legend houston mctear ran a 9.0 100 yards around 1975 that would have been world record but not recognizd because hand timed...

* wake forest bio - notes fourth fastest sprinter in state...

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-track/mtt/givens_chris00.html

I've just got a good feeling about Bradford this year and will be targeting him as my QB2 in my auction league. He's finally going to keep the same offense from the previous year and it looks like the Rams are starting to build a nice cache of weapons surrounding him. He certainly looked the part last week vs the Browns.

Just to be clear I never said Givens wasn't fast. Clearly, he is. I just don't think citing his 100m score from 2007 is very useful when more recent scores that given the same eval are available. Don't you think some people's bodies change in that period of time? At 17, your balls havent' even finished dropping, some kids get faster, some get slower, some stay the same. 6 years at that age is a big difference to compare. If you want to talk about the 10.4 in particular, you can check out this link:http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Division/Event.aspx?DivID=1400&Gender=M&Event=1

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=352068#L0

You can see that didn't record a 10.4, but instead a 10.62. Now I don't know if Givens ran a 10.4 somewhere else, whether someone is extrapolating the 10.4 because the 10.62 was against the wind or what. I don't know what your source is. But it doesn't matter, because it was in 2007. We have more recent data on this guy now, like the NFL combine numbers.

At the combine he ran a 4.41. That's pretty fast. I searched NFL.com's easy to use combine database and looked at the top WR prospects from 2010 to 2013. Guess how many had track histories? (All of them) I didn't make it down to Givens. The list didn't go down that far, because there are plenty of WRs faster than him (at the 40, and were track runners). So yeah, I think there are lots of players that could run a 10.62 or 10.4 (or whatever Givens ran).

Whatever Givens ran, it's cool trivia but that seems to be it.

This link shows just how common a college football player/track runner cranks out a 10.6 or so. There's a bunch.

http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/rankings/alldiv/2013_NCAATF_Outdoor_FootballBests.pdf

Anyway, I know this was a minor point of yours and this is the last I'll say about it.........................................................................................................................

MoveToSkypager said:

Just to be clear I never said Givens wasn't fast. Clearly, he is. I just don't think citing his 100m score from 2007 is very useful when more recent scores that given the same eval are available. Don't you think some people's bodies change in that period of time? At 17, your balls havent' even finished dropping, some kids get faster, some get slower, some stay the same. 6 years at that age is a big difference to compare. If you want to talk about the 10.4 in particular, you can check out this link:http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Division/Event.aspx?DivID=1400&Gender=M&Event=1

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=352068#L0

You can see that didn't record a 10.4, but instead a 10.62. Now I don't know if Givens ran a 10.4 somewhere else, whether someone is extrapolating the 10.4 because the 10.62 was against the wind or what. I don't know what your source is. But it doesn't matter, because it was in 2007. We have more recent data on this guy now, like the NFL combine numbers.

At the combine he ran a 4.41. That's pretty fast. I searched NFL.com's easy to use combine database and looked at the top WR prospects from 2010 to 2013. Guess how many had track histories? (All of them) I didn't make it down to Givens. The list didn't go down that far, because there are plenty of WRs faster than him (at the 40, and were track runners). So yeah, I think there are lots of players that could run a 10.62 or 10.4 (or whatever Givens ran).

Whatever Givens ran, it's cool trivia but that seems to be it.

This link shows just how common a college football player/track runner cranks out a 10.6 or so. There's a bunch.

http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/rankings/alldiv/2013_NCAATF_Outdoor_FootballBests.pdf

Anyway, I know this was a minor point of yours and this is the last I'll say about it.........................................................................................................................

Click to expand...

Watch him play....he tends to run faster than most of the people trying to keep him out of the endzone.

MoveToSkypager said:

Just to be clear I never said Givens wasn't fast. Clearly, he is. I just don't think citing his 100m score from 2007 is very useful when more recent scores that given the same eval are available. Don't you think some people's bodies change in that period of time? At 17, your balls havent' even finished dropping, some kids get faster, some get slower, some stay the same. 6 years at that age is a big difference to compare. If you want to talk about the 10.4 in particular, you can check out this link:http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Division/Event.aspx?DivID=1400&Gender=M&Event=1

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=352068#L0

You can see that didn't record a 10.4, but instead a 10.62. Now I don't know if Givens ran a 10.4 somewhere else, whether someone is extrapolating the 10.4 because the 10.62 was against the wind or what. I don't know what your source is. But it doesn't matter, because it was in 2007. We have more recent data on this guy now, like the NFL combine numbers.

At the combine he ran a 4.41. That's pretty fast. I searched NFL.com's easy to use combine database and looked at the top WR prospects from 2010 to 2013. Guess how many had track histories? (All of them) I didn't make it down to Givens. The list didn't go down that far, because there are plenty of WRs faster than him (at the 40, and were track runners). So yeah, I think there are lots of players that could run a 10.62 or 10.4 (or whatever Givens ran).

Whatever Givens ran, it's cool trivia but that seems to be it.

This link shows just how common a college football player/track runner cranks out a 10.6 or so. There's a bunch.

http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/rankings/alldiv/2013_NCAATF_Outdoor_FootballBests.pdf

Anyway, I know this was a minor point of yours and this is the last I'll say about it.........................................................................................................................

Click to expand...

below is a more comprehensive link for the 2007 jesuit-sheaner relays showing he ran in the 10.4s... that would have been good for third in your first link, so no, actually there weren't lots faster... the confusion may have been that he ran the 100 in the 10.4s in a preliminary, and the 10.6 in a final...the fastest time is your capability, not the time you happened to record in a final... http://www.jsrelays.org/Results/2007/2007.htm

i was trying to understand what you meant by lots of WRs are as fast, and the third link has a lot of college WRs, i have no idea how many are going to become top flight NFL WRs, or even ever make the NFL for that matter (ironic you would take exception to usefulness of above information)... there may be a lot UPS drivers that used to run a 10.4, and that may be as relevant to how givens stacks up against other STARTING NFL WRs (with starting being the operative word)...

below is a list of the top 30 WRs in non-PPR scoring in 2012... are there really a lot that are clearly faster than givens?

calvin is very fast, demaryius thomas, andre johnson already noted, julio jones, not sure about cruz, steve smith and shorts, torrey smith and mike wallace have sprinter speed, not sure about hilton and maclin...

1. Calvin Johnson

2. Brandon Marshall

3. Dez Bryant

4. A.J. Green

5. Demaryius Thomas

6. Vincent Jackson

7. Eric Decker

8. Andre Johnson

9. Julio Jones

10. Roddy White

11. Marques Colston

12. Wes Welker

13. Victor Cruz

14. Michael Crabtree

15. Reggie Wayne

16. James Jones

17. Randall Cobb

18. Mike Williams

19. Steve Smith

20. Steve Johnson

21. Lance Moore

22. Cecil Shorts

23. Torrey Smith

24. Mike Wallace

25. T.Y. Hilton

26. Miles Austin

27. Jeremy Maclin

28. Justin Blackmon

29. Sidney Rice

30. Golden Tate

you repeatedly questioned why go back to prep days when a player would presumably have lost some speed with added muscle... but you didn't address why other propects of same age wouldn't also have the same thing happen (why would others retain speed or speed up while givens slows down?)... logically, if he was faster than many as prep, after subtracting some fractional amount of speed for added bulk, he would remain faster (other STARTING NFL WRS that were slower than 10.4 as prep, who ALSO would presumably have lost some fractional amount of speed after putting on muscle in college and NFL, which wasn't really addressed)...

you also repeatedly wanted to shift the conversation to the 40 m, i was citing his 100 m time... why is that relevant? QBs are allowed to throw the ball more than 40 m downfield... obviously the shorter the distance (10, 20, 30 meters), will be an equalizer, and it will be harder to gain separation... the 100 meters time is more reflective of whether in fact he has elite DEEP speed (among his peers, starting NFL WRs)...

this is why i cited that he broke a nearly 30 year old record with 50+ yard reception, clearly evidence of elite deep speed (i mean, unless you think he got lucky? you completely failed to address this point)... so, yeah, there have have been many fast NFL WRs that have come down the pike, but if his speed was not elite as you seemed to be suggesting (there are LOTS of fast WRs, including the list you furnished with a bunch of college WRs that will never sniff the NFL, let alone a starting gig, very useful info on your part unlike mine which addressed a player before his balls dropped, to use your description), the many OTHER, FASTER WRs you seem to suggest are out there, would have broken this record a long time ago, probably several times...

the fact this didn't happen i could interpret a few ways... maybe he is faster than you are giving credit for... maybe bradford throws a better deep ball than some of the other hypothetical QB battery partners over the years... also, there must be skills other than raw sprinter speed that come into play (tracking the ball downfield, in-flight adjustments, hands, etc.)... since this is clearly the case, having those attributes also reflects well on givens...

on a couple of the plays i linked highlights to above, bradford threw the ball effortlessly 55 yards in the air... THAT is why deep speed beyond the 40 m (that you seemed to keep wanting to shift back to) is relevant...

and they don't run the 100 m. at the combine... so yes, i don't see any way around going back to prep resume to extract this information (exception is WRs that ran track in college, like already cited andre johnson... i didn't look that hard, givens wake forest track bio linked above showed a 60 m, but not a 100 m time)... even if, alas, this was before his balls dropped...

* if you took all 64 (or maybe closer to 70-75 if a lot of teams run a base three WR offense) STARTING NFL WRs, and ran a 100 meters, some would no doubt beat givens, but i'm not certain a lot would, you haven't made that case... you focused on the 40, and when you did address the 100 meters, included a bunch of names we have no idea will ever make the NFL, let alone start...

** maybe this is putting too fine a point on things, but knowing that markus wheaton, who is a football player that happens to have elite speed, not a track star trying to play football like renaldo nehemiah, defeated oregon star deanthony thomas in a 100 meter race, raised him in my estimation... before hearing that, i didn't know he was THAT fast, or had that kind of deep speed... given the constellation of other WR traits he already has, coupling that kind of speed imo bodes well for his pro prospects... as opposed, lets say, to if he was slow, or just had ordinary speed that lots of NFL WRs have (it also probably bodes well that the team that drafted mike wallace, who has among best deep speed of all active NFL STARTING WRs, wants to slot him into that role)...

to me, that is useful and relevant information... if it isn't to you, we can agree to disagree...

I guess I'm incapable of understanding your original point. Wish me better luck next time.

Using the link you provided, Chris Given's 7.12 60m would be about a 10.8 100m.

I have been known to be guilty of long posts - TL/DR

i'll try to boil it down...

while 40 time may be appropriate measure of functional speed in some contexts...

though slow time notoriously caused teams to undervalue terrell suggs... DEs don't generally run 40 yards...

WRs do sometimes run more than 40 yards... givens broke a nearly three decade record by catching 50+ yard pass five games in a row being a case in point... maybe 100 m distance has some validity as measure for exceptional deep speed you seem to be discounting...

they don't run 100 at combine, necessitating going back to prep days... point taken that givens may not be as fast as he was when he was in high school and presumably lighter... but that could be said about everybody... if he had exceptional speed as prep, and was faster than many of his peers as NFL starting WRs AT COMPARABLE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT, and we don't assume he lost more speed on average than them (on what basis would we assume that?), he should remain faster than most...

the 10.4 didn't show up on your list because it was a prelim and not a final...

you clarified your position on what you meant that 10.4 isn't unusual... you than furnished a list of fast college WRs, many of which I have no idea if they will ever make NFL, let alone start... if we want to restrict ourselves to relevant and useful, imo, it makes more sense and seems more reasonable to compare his speed to peers (ie - starting NFL WRs)...

givens has been compared to wallace by some scouts because he has rare deep speed, again, among starting WRs...

admittedly that is a linchpin and cornerstone of this part of my position... if you don't agree that Wallace has among best deep speed among starting NFL WRs, I dunno?

if you lined up all starting WRs in the NFL and ran a 100 m, some no doubt would be faster than givens, but I don't think a lot... In a 40, because of shorter distance, I'd expect more would be faster... but since you are allowed to run routes longer than 40 m, having exceptional deep, long speed might be a handy attribute...

i don' think any of thes points individually are inherently complex or hard to understand? maybe it was how they were strung together?

I do think part of the disconnect was related to the fact that you thought it was meaningful to describe given's speed as not exceptional by using as reference points many prep and collegiate WRs who never made it to NFL, or never will... maybe it would help if you could explain the thought process in assuming that would be more useful and relevant than confining and restricting our search space for speed comps to, you know, WRs that actually play in the NFL, and start?

I don't know what more I can say. It was my fault I got attracted to a point of yours that I didn't think was meaningful. Let's not derail this any further. You are a staff member and I'm wrong.

i could be wrong, i'm kind of dense in thinking sometimes lack of mutual understanding entails failure to communicate on my part, when it could be other things (disinterest beyond certain point?)... if i did clarify my position from original, or you did, and there was anything of merit worth highlighting, maybe others can benefit from process and exchange...

i don't mind having muddled thinking being pointed out, that could lead to better thinking... i have learned a lot on these boards over the years... maybe i wasn't prompted to revise my position in this instance, but it is always a possibility...

the main thing is to conduct the process and exchange in a civil and respectful manner... sorry if i was less than that... absolutely no worries about staff, though i didn't quite get basis of your critique, i respect your right to level it, you and anybody else on board have carte blanche in future... it may be an ideal, and sound corny even, but that is how individual and collective thinking can be sharpened... like the blade and whetstone... or why you wouldn't try and get better in hoops by playing third graders...

at its best, the shark pool is a 1,000-eyed monster, facilitating collaborative, augmented football intelligence... a response to a debate sparks off an entirely new line of thought not originally conceived...

and so on.

Starting to think Bradford is going to push top 12. So far so good this preseason. The new weapons are just going to keep improving chemistry with him and his talent has never been a question.

I'm all in.

RBM said:

Starting to think Bradford is going to push top 12. So far so good this preseason. The new weapons are just going to keep improving chemistry with him and his talent has never been a question.

I'm all in.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he looks great. With the exception of one bad overthrow to Tavon at the GL, Bradford has been great.

pretty sure he is well over 100 QB rating in preseason...

not that rating is fantasy stat...

but it is at least proxy for good QB play, and encouraging that it could translate to boosted fantasy stats that many expect with all the additional receiving weapons...

bulger2holt said:

RBM said:

Starting to think Bradford is going to push top 12. So far so good this preseason. The new weapons are just going to keep improving chemistry with him and his talent has never been a question.

I'm all in.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he looks great. With the exception of one bad overthrow to Tavon at the GL, Bradford has been great.

Click to expand...

To be fair, Austin is pretty short...

Magaw: Are your projections a final product? I thought I read somewhere that you have Cook down for 80 receptions, but projections say otherwise. Or were you just considering that and may/may not change your projections? If your projections might be revised, are you seriously considering revising any others on the Rams? thx

MoveToSkypager said:

Magaw: Are your projections a final product? I thought I read somewhere that you have Cook down for 80 receptions, but projections say otherwise. Or were you just considering that and may/may not change your projections? If your projections might be revised, are you seriously considering revising any others on the Rams? thx

Click to expand...

skypager:

in jared cook thread linked below, in post #24 i stated he could get 80 receptions (the operative word there being could, as opposed to will , just to qualify projection)... there is more detail as to rationale for optimism in post #37...

i tend to express things as a range... i'll be somewhat disappointed if he only gets in the neighborhood of 65 receptions... i won't be surprised if he gets 80... i'm expecting between about 72-80 receptions...

i went with his historic average of 13+ yard per reception, as i saw no need to deviate from it... the vernon davis-like measurables, if finally and fully unleashed, should translate to a lot of explosive RAC plays... his one reception in GB game went for 37 yards...

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=681697

a few staffers do league-wide projections for site (dodds and bob henry, wood, maybe few others), you could double check them... i did mention in cook thread it was outlier call, i may well be highest on him?

i do NFC west write ups for DEFENSE... we have to be generalists, even those of us that specialize in IDP, as in my case, but i don't do offense write ups for those teams, if that is what you are referring to (they aren't identified with our names attached to team reports, just in case that was causing confusion)?

not sure if i have noted specific projections for austin and givens, so not sure what i would revise.

i think cook and austin will be focal points...

expect austin to lead team in receptions, givens in yards and TDs (edit/add - wouldn't surprise me if cook or austin lead in receiving TDs, either, they could all do fairly well and distribution could be pretty close in the end - i could see all three with 6-8+ TDs)...

cook could have top 3-5 TE upside...

i see givens in top 20-25 WR range, though he could have upside if things break right...

austin i am hopeful cracks top 30, say range of top 25-30 WR, he also could have upside... i admittedly am more confident in his long range projection for dynasty purposes... rams have a lot of new, moving parts, are maybe youngest team in the league, still have some lingering OL questions (especially about ability to stay healthy), a lot of observers think they are still a year away...

the other starting WR currently listed as pettis... very possible he is supplanted by quick, less likely as rookie but possible as he was advertised as one of most pro ready and polished route runners in draft, bailey... i sort of expect all three of these guys to see time throughout the year, almost like WR3BC or rotation, as they bring different things to the table... pettis is given least credit, but reportedly had great preseason, and in 6 attempted passes into end zone last year, i think he had converted 4 TDs? if that is right, think i saw that stat in fantasy index?), he has most experience... quick has TO like body and size/speed combo, needs to be more consistent and play bigger... i saw at times as rookie where he would just be spectator on 50/50 ball, instead of fighting for reception or at least battling to make sure it wasn't picked off... that kind of passivity speaks to needed growth in his understanding of how to play the game... imo it is likely he is still year away from true breakout, and maybe he never lives up to promise of his athleticism and pedigree... i am very high on bailey (see that thread for details), he is far more talented than pettis, and far more refined and developed than quick, so at some point, and it may be 2014, imo he will offer best combo of talent and development of the three potential WRs currently on roster...

due to the possible kaleidoscopic rotation of these three in 2013, i don't expect any will challenge cook, austin or givens for preeminence in the receiving hierarchy...

reverse engineering and working backwards from bradford, if you prefer...

4,000-4,500 yards and 28-32 TDs (though, again, won't be surprised if he exceeds this, i'd be far more surprised if he disappoints on the other side of the spectrum with something like 25 TDs)...

hope that clears up my take on the rams passing offense...

Rams' Bradford embracing leadership role

By Nick Wagoner | ESPN.com

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Entering his fourth season in the league, St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford feels like the wise old man of the offense.

When Bradford stops and looks around the locker room or huddle he sees a group of youngsters, particularly in the wide receivers and running backs, only a year or two removed from being in college.

Not that Bradford minds being considered a veteran on a young team.

“It makes me feel old, No. 1,” Bradford said. “But, I think it’s great. I think those young guys bring a certain energy to our locker room. They’ve got a lot of energy. They’ve got more than some of the vets and it’s great. I think it gives us a spark.”

Although Bradford does have some help in the leadership department from a veteran offensive line that includes tackle Jake Long, guard Harvey Dahl and center Scott Wells, a big part of his responsibility moving forward is embracing a leadership role to ensure the young players surrounding him reach their potential sooner than later.

Upon the departure of running back Steven Jackson, Bradford quickly realized a leadership void beyond just the opening at running back had been created. He’s embraced that role in this camp as he can regularly be found offering pointers to his receivers during practice or working extra with them afterward.

“It’s fun for me because I get to take more of a leadership role and try to help mold some of those young players and teach them the game and teach them through experiences that I’ve had,” Bradford said. “I think it’s great that we have a lot of young guys. I think it gives us an opportunity to take a lot of steps forward.”

The reality is that Bradford probably wasn’t as equipped to take the reins as the primary voice of the offense until this season. Not only was Jackson the more established veteran but Bradford continued to find himself in a position where he never had the chance to learn all the ins and outs of the offense.

Changing offensive coordinators three times in his first three years left Bradford trying to play catch up. It’s made it difficult for him to offer advice to his receivers and backs because he’s been working to learn it himself.

Now in his second year in coordinator Brian Schottenheimer’s offense, Bradford seems more at ease with his role. The timing of that couldn’t be better given how young his wideouts and backs are.

Projecting a receiver and running back corps with an average age of 23 might be fun in terms of the locker room but it also means the Rams and Bradford have high expectations for young players at a position where youth doesn’t always quickly translate to success.

Rookie and young running backs have a long history of producing right away. Just last year, two of the league’s top five rushers (Washington’s Alfred Morris and Tampa Bay’s Doug Martin) were rookies. That could bode well for second-year back Daryl Richardson and his young cohorts.

The receiver spot is a bit more difficult to make an early impact save for a select few. Among the top 20 in receiving yards in 2012, only three were in their second year but none were rookies.

Austin Pettis is the elder statesman of the receiver group entering his third season in the league. Chris Givens and Brian Quick are heading into Year 2 and Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey are rookies.

Tight end Jared Cook should ease some of the pressure on those young receivers a bit, but it still might be asking a lot for such a young group to contribute in a major way so early in their careers at a position where that’s generally been difficult.

Bradford is aware of that, but he’s also made it clear he doesn’t plan to wait around for them to develop.

“I think there’s obviously a certain level of patience that you have to have,” Bradford said. “Obviously, we’re going to go through growing pains, but at the same time those guys have to understand what they’re expected to come in and do -- and that’s play at a high level. I think that we’ve tried to make that clear to a lot of the rookies, especially on the offensive side of the ball. They might be rookies, but they have to grow up fast because we are depending on them for our offense to be successful. So, we can’t afford them to have a season of learning. They’ve got to be able to come in and help us immediately.”

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Countdown to staying in town?

Rotoworld:

According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, the Rams are "willing to re-do Sam Bradford's contract now," and still view him as their franchise quarterback.
Per Rapoport, however, Bradford is in "no rush" to re-do his deal, which is set to pay him nearly $30 million through the end of the 2015 season. Bradford's 2014-15 salaries are not guaranteed, but the Rams are not in position to ask him to take a pay-cut. Bradford's progress has been slow since being the No. 1 overall pick of the 2010 draft, but undeniably steady. Considering the skyrocketing rate of franchise-QB deals, the Rams would be wise to try to lock Bradford up now, but it's unlikely when he owns most of the leverage. Both sides can afford to wait.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

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4,000-4,500 yards and 28-32 TDs (though, again, won't be surprised if he exceeds this, i'd be far more surprised if he disappoints on the other side of the spectrum with something like 25 TDs)...

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This is pretty spot on but I do see him on the lower end of the TD's unless something changes in STL.

RBM said:

Faust said:

The Shutdown Corner NFC West draft review podcast with Greg Cosell

By Doug Farrar

On how receiver Tavon Austin will change the Rams' offense: "As soon as they made that pick, and I was doing radio that night at the draft, I said that the Rams [will go with a more wide-open offense." Keep in mind what the Rams' personnel is. They have two tight ends who can move in Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks. They've got Tavon Austin. They've got Chris Givens, who a lot of people have forgotten about, but that kid can run. Everyone's talked about Chip Kelly and the speed offense, and taking nothing away from him, but in Sam Bradford's Heisman year, Oklahoma scored 60-plus points five or six weeks in a row, and I think they averaged 82 plays a game. Bradford's played in that, and they don't have what you'd call a feature back. So to me, everything about their skill positions signifies hurry-up, spread, tempo, speed to get guys in space."

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Man I'm so torn on this. I really like Bradford, and all the moves are pointing to it. But then you see Jeff Fisher and Brian Shottenheimer on the sidelines.

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Exactly what I feared. Shotty is awful....no creativity whatsoever.

I'm starting to come around on this. I was all geeked for the guy to finally have some stability at OC and HC, but the play calling is atrocious. So if you send the OC packing, then he has to learn a new system again. If you keep the OC, then we'll continue to see crap where Austin is used on hook routes (taking his speed out of the equation), and Givens being used on short routes (when he should be stretching the field), and Cook disappearing entirely. Oh, and not drafting a RB was stupid. Where would they be right now if they took Christine Michael?

I think Bradford is talented but I think we won't truly see what he can be unless he's sent out of town.

Can't they get someone who runs a similar offense but with more creativity? Schotty sucks, & always has. I am confused as to how people keep hiring him. Does he interview well? Who gives a ####? Look at the product on the field from every place he has ever been. Same with Bill Callahan, Mike Tice, Marty Morningwhig (sp?) How do these people keep getting hired?

plymkr said:

Can't they get someone who runs a similar offense but with more creativity? Schotty sucks, & always has. I am confused as to how people keep hiring him. Does he interview well? Who gives a ####? Look at the product on the field from every place he has ever been. Same with Bill Callahan, Mike Tice, Marty Morningwhig (sp?) How do these people keep getting hired?

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I think there's a lot of evidence that when a coach or coordinator who hasn't been successful on one team goes somewhere new one they can get things on track. I wasn't as good at my job the first few years as I have been the last decade, and I'm sure it's similar in the NFL. A couple examples off the top of my head of coaches I thought had proven they couldn't be successful and then turned it around would be Pete Carroll and Bill Belicheck.

Now, that said, it's probably the minority who make those adjustments and are able to become something significantly better than they were originally, but it happens enough that teams keep taking chances and recycling guys. I mean, how long before Norv gets another head coaching gig right?

I know a bad OC can certainly hurt a QB but are there any comparable examples of other young QB's that struggled for years because of inept coaching, later to light it up when they got the right coordinator?

Because I can remember for years people defending Jason Campbell in Washington about how rough he's had because he has to learn a new offense every year. You know, sometimes there's a reason for that...bad quarterbacking will get coaches fired. Good quarterbacking will get coordinators head coaching jobs but the QB's usually stay good.

I can't recall a QB who has had so many excuses made for him for so long and I see this today I still see people making excuses for him. It's not the coaching, it's not the OL and it's not the WR's. Time to realize it's him.