pantherclub
Footballguy
That is going to stink. I am not 100% sold on Allen. Sure he is getting better but what is his ceiling? He reminds me a Alex Smith lite. And we better get a 1 or couple of 2s for cam.
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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
stratocatter
Footballguy
I think we are in for some lean years but the bright side is all the Cam fans that aren't really Panthers fans will be off to wherever he is. The last two years have really sucked, and he really strung everyone along this year. Those two games really cost us. But Will Grier? Ugghh.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Same here. I cannot remember if it was him or another article that said an option was for the panthers to straight cut Cam. Now that take is straight up idiotic because it will never happen. We may trade him (though IMO it makes more sense to keep him) but there is no way they cut him. The article mentions freeing up money to pay cmac but he is under contract for 2 more years and there is no way they extend him in the off season. That would be dumb.
stratocatter
Footballguy
I tend to believe this will be Hurney's big test. Make a good deal Marty you might get to hang. Or Tepper brings in someone with this as their charge: handle the sale of Cam Newton.
Anyway this is the big interesting thing on the menu in our future. Interesting because we learn about Tepper. I think.
Anyway this is the big interesting thing on the menu in our future. Interesting because we learn about Tepper. I think.
Good call, both on Hurney and especially Tepper. Going to be the most interesting offseason in a while for the franchise.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Yeah I can't imagine them just dropping Cam. It's a dilemma because the team isn't in rebuilding mode. They have the players in place to win, just have uncertainty at QB. Allen has been great so far but I'm not buying (yet) that he is the answer for the future at QB. He may prove to be the guy, we'll see. How they treat CMC is interesting too. Would hate to see him wear down quickly if they end up in rebuilding mode. RB lifespans aren't that great. It's going to be an interesting off season.pantherclub said:
stratocatter
Footballguy
Thank you DAG. I was reminded of Chris Johnson, due to McCaffrey chasing his record. Well he may not be chasing it but it is being portrayed that way by the TV guys. Different player and physique altogether, but a worthwhile reminder of how tight that window is when a RB is ridden that hard.
I would certainly love for McCaffrey to do something historic. At the same time I really hope that isn't what we are left with for drama down the stretch but it looks like we are headed there.
I would certainly love for McCaffrey to do something historic. At the same time I really hope that isn't what we are left with for drama down the stretch but it looks like we are headed there.
simey
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
I don't see moving Cam just assuming the team won't get great return on him given the uncertainty around his health. If he doesn't or can't run as much then he becomes a mid-range NFL starter but less of a franchise QB, and I can't imagine he's going to be as dynamic with all the injuries and wear and tear. Do those same possibilities make him of limited value to the Panthers, though? The team has some win-now pieces in place, but some pretty significant problems remain. The offensive line is still a big issue (among the worst in the league in pass blocking according to one analysis); I realize injuries have to be taken into account there (as with the team this year generally) but it's still an area of annual concern. McCaffrey is an MVP caliber player but at a position without longevity (especially at the current rate of usage). I sound pessimistic, but I'm really not. I think the future is bright with what looks like good ownership and some important investments in the franchise. But I think the team is in a tough spot in terms of whether to start a rebuild now or hold and reassess after next season. I'm impatient by nature, but I wonder what holding on really gets you next year; if the team is likely to be say 9-7 in 2020 what good does that do?
Dizzy
Footballguy
Kyle Allen has sucked all year, it just wasn't showing up in the box score so much. The defense and McCaffrey were winning games, Allen was sometimes doing enough not to lose them. He'd been very lucky for weeks, making INT-worthy throws that his luck was always going to run out. I still want to see Will Grier get a shot this year, it should of probably happened weeks ago, and I'm very surprised it didn't happen yesterday, when Allen couldn't stop making embarrassing play after embarrassing play.
Now that the chances at making the playoffs are essentially zero, why not?
Now that the chances at making the playoffs are essentially zero, why not?
pantherclub
Footballguy
If I am reading this correctly then I think Tepper is saying bye bye Ron and Marty
https://twitter.com/josephperson/status/1196559377249001472
https://twitter.com/josephperson/status/1196559377249001472
Jayrok
Footballguy
Not sure if I would go as far as saying Ron and Marty are gone, yet, based just on that tweet.
"Can't make a decision on Cam until he's healthy." I agree. Like to see Cam back next season and then evaluate where he's at.
"Won't accept long-term mediocrity." Okay, great. I'm glad the owner isn't willing to let things go as is... but how long is "long-term" in his mind?
"Will let Wofford know about training camp in Feb." If new facilities ready then Wofford won't host? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with Ron and/or Marty.
That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Ron and/or Marty is fired.
"Can't make a decision on Cam until he's healthy." I agree. Like to see Cam back next season and then evaluate where he's at.
"Won't accept long-term mediocrity." Okay, great. I'm glad the owner isn't willing to let things go as is... but how long is "long-term" in his mind?
"Will let Wofford know about training camp in Feb." If new facilities ready then Wofford won't host? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with Ron and/or Marty.
That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Ron and/or Marty is fired.
Dizzy
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
I think you can definitely put both on the hot seat. Ron doesn't have control of the roster. The lack of a solid veteran qb backup falls squarely on Marty. However Ron took over the D and they haven't shown up twice this season and have been only ok against the run all season. You are implementing a new scheme but still too much talent on that D for this.
So does Tepper just look at this year? Or does he look at the overall mediocrity since the Superbowl? Does he give everyone one more chance with a for the moment healthy Cam or do they move on from Cam, save 19 million and clean house?
Jayrok
Footballguy
That's what I'd like to know. What does he consider the limits of mediocrity? As you said, they've been mediocre since the SB. The game Cam hurt his shoulder vs the Steelers began his big decline. That blowout game began what's been an ugly couple of years.
I believe he wants to see Cam next season and how he comes back from the injuries. But I don't see him extending Cam beyond that.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Having a QB play out their last year usually seems to lead to a lot of distraction. 19 million would go a long way toward keeping some people we'd like to keep. But we'll see.
stratocatter
Footballguy
It doesn't have to be his last year. And we are spending the 19 but at that we really are still saving over what a lot of teams are being charged for quarterback services. Sure, a franchise tag scenario would be ugly or could be, but tough ####. All the face cards belong to Tepper. Cam can huff and puff but if he wants to cash in 150 million or better from somebody he has to put the tape out that gets that interest. We might actually get a motivated QB next year which isn't bad in any way. One good solid year from him probably rehabs his value.
Best case or a very good case is a below league average contract on Cam for 2020 is great asset allocation if he produces. And a bonus if he is still a weapon next year is we could control him still with that tag and trade him still when the 2021 year starts with his value high for someone with cap and a pretty good team that wants to win now. And get ourselves something.
This has no chance at working if Cam just retires rather than have to prove himself but if he wants to and can play we could be good to go. So why not keep him then? Well I personally think the great HOF pocket QB Cam is a pipe dream, with huge risk because of his health stacked on top. Let someone else have that. But that is why the leaders in the NFL make all that money, to make those judgements.
And, you buy time to develop what you have, can only help Grier. Not a fan now, but in 2021, maybe.
Best case or a very good case is a below league average contract on Cam for 2020 is great asset allocation if he produces. And a bonus if he is still a weapon next year is we could control him still with that tag and trade him still when the 2021 year starts with his value high for someone with cap and a pretty good team that wants to win now. And get ourselves something.
This has no chance at working if Cam just retires rather than have to prove himself but if he wants to and can play we could be good to go. So why not keep him then? Well I personally think the great HOF pocket QB Cam is a pipe dream, with huge risk because of his health stacked on top. Let someone else have that. But that is why the leaders in the NFL make all that money, to make those judgements.
And, you buy time to develop what you have, can only help Grier. Not a fan now, but in 2021, maybe.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
stratocatter
Footballguy
All this is just to wait for Grier? It was more like I'd like to get something good out of Cam but don't believe that is a long term thing that WE should spend $140-160 million betting on. There are better options available to us. Well maybe not better, but more sensible.
edit: and having him play in 2020 absolutely allows an opportunity for achievements, like beating the good teams and going deep into the playoffs. : End edit
The roster we have? We need to squander a few of them. Luke, C Mac, come to mind otherwise I am struggling here to find irreplaceable people. Olsen looks gone. He can find seams but he is sort of rumbling stumbling looking this year.
edit: and having him play in 2020 absolutely allows an opportunity for achievements, like beating the good teams and going deep into the playoffs. : End edit
The roster we have? We need to squander a few of them. Luke, C Mac, come to mind otherwise I am struggling here to find irreplaceable people. Olsen looks gone. He can find seams but he is sort of rumbling stumbling looking this year.
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
Grier is most likely bad, based on some of the whispers.
stratocatter
Footballguy
I have seen where those whispers said he couldn't complete the route tree. Anything else?
I am strongly against playing him now without hearing anything just on eyeball test; the little I got to see and knowing what I know. I surely am not a fan as of this time. Things can change with an offseason and another season. Not that I have high hopes but I am only an observer way out on the periphery.
I am strongly against playing him now without hearing anything just on eyeball test; the little I got to see and knowing what I know. I surely am not a fan as of this time. Things can change with an offseason and another season. Not that I have high hopes but I am only an observer way out on the periphery.
Missing two kicks like that in a dome...ooof.
Still, where does this franchise go from here? I have seen a lot on Twitter recently about the debate over Cam. Doubt they move on, but I also am not sure it makes sense to go all in on him for next year either.
NCCommish
Footballguy
There are no moral victories in the NFL. With that said I saw a team that hasn't quit. They fought their way to a chance to win it at the end. So that's a positive. As to Cam there is no way they should give him a new contract unless he is the MVP next season. And given how his body is breaking down that seems unlikely.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Really impressed with Allen. He's a player.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Team played with a lot of heart yesterday. Allen was very good and they deserved to win. Christian is just amazing. And DJ is having a very good season.
Oh man, the kicker. Miss a FG... a PAT... okay. But that last FG was like one of the old extra point kicks. And from right in the middle of the field. Slye flat out choked.
But this game was sort of symbolic of how the season has gone.
Oh man, the kicker. Miss a FG... a PAT... okay. But that last FG was like one of the old extra point kicks. And from right in the middle of the field. Slye flat out choked.
But this game was sort of symbolic of how the season has gone.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I still would like them to see how Cam returns next season and not trade him in the off season, unless they can get a good haul.
No one is replaceable outside of Luke and CMC, maybe a couple of linemen on both sides of the ball (KK). Olsen will retire after this season, I believe. They can lose some of the money they've spent at DL, imo. Poe, McCoy, and guys like Eric Reid. Burns has shown to be a good pass rusher. Shaq Thompson has been good but he's no Thomas Davis. We always need help at corner and safety.
We've lost some close games this season that could have went our way. I don't see this team as a complete rebuild just yet. Not sure if Ron and Norv will survive, though.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Yup. And that really really matters. Look at how the Saints have built roster depth and starter quality by hitting on picks past rounds 1-2.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Yes. You should pull up their drafting history and take a gander at all the terrible picks from round 3 on over the years. Josh Norman was a 5th round pick that developed nicely but walked after his best season.
Harris Butker was a 7th rounder that would still be here, probably giving us a win last week in NO. He was ripped off the practice squad by KC. Still lamenting keeping Gano and his salary over him. SMH
pantherclub
Footballguy
Our prayers are going to be answered as I just cannot see any reason that Tepper would keep Hurney and probably RR as well. Total front office overall on the way. Not sure how I feel about Ron getting the axe.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I feel the same about Ron. Don't know who else is out there that would be better. McCarthy? I don't know. I'd be happy to see Hurney go for sure, but on the fence about Ron.
Think Tepper would try to get Tomlin? I don't want that either.
I'm also on the fence with Rivera. I prefer the idea of keeping him and canning Hurney. There are certainly valid concerns with Rivera, but the team plays hard/hasn't given up and seems to consistently compete under him. The bigger question to me is whether he can see the team through a transition from Cam, and whether Tepper would want to give him sufficient time to find out.
stratocatter
Footballguy
It is nice to read some reasoned, sane, non hysterical posts. Ron has been here a while and I am on his side but very close to putting a leg on that fence. He has a lot going for him, the players stick with him. He has weaknesses. Definitely I am one who considers upgrading easier said than done.
Now if you told me with 100% certainty that the next guy would take us all the way, see ya Ron.
Now if you told me with 100% certainty that the next guy would take us all the way, see ya Ron.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I hope you guys keep Rivera. There are A LOT of worse coaches out there and this league inexplicably has a way of resurrecting them all the time. I think you just need to stick your foot in the group d and make a decision on cam/Allen and go with it from the word to. No waffling. Then you really just need some so,I'd team building for depth. You don't need fancy moves to trade around and get a certain player early, you just need solid pick, solid pick, solid pick. This team doesn't jump out at you like some teams do but they are very close to being back on top and Brees is getting older and there's no threat from Atlanta or Tampa.
Jayrok
Footballguy
That is the problem (bolded). Hurney and Rivera are incapable of picking solid talent after the first couple of rounds.
Jayrok
Footballguy
May be the worse loss of the year. I don't know what happened after the first two drives but everyone shut down.
The offense made the WAS defense look like the 85 Bears. And nice job of Norv adjusting after half time. Just a poor effort all around.
Best play of the game was that onside kick. That was prefect. Allen tries to do too much... runs around and takes a huge sack. Run defense nonexistent.
Dominated by the redskins. The redskins? oh brother.
The offense made the WAS defense look like the 85 Bears. And nice job of Norv adjusting after half time. Just a poor effort all around.
Best play of the game was that onside kick. That was prefect. Allen tries to do too much... runs around and takes a huge sack. Run defense nonexistent.
Dominated by the redskins. The redskins? oh brother.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Losing to the skins a week after being put on notice is going to get you fired all day every day
