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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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The first handful of episodes of The Leftovers were not good. 

Everyone bailed and missed one of the greatest shows ever.  

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4 minutes ago, zoonation said:

Season 3 of the Leftovers is one of the greatest seasons of tv ever.   A total home run. 

It would leave you in disbelief how they were making it all work.  

The guy from Perfect Strangers.  I mean come on.

So original.  So underratted.

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1 hour ago, zoonation said:

Yeah, you’re explanation isn’t persuasive.  

It basically reduces to “history of mental illness in the family.”

I don’t think the turn to genocidal murderer of hundreds of thousands of innocents was earned.   You do.  Let’s just move on.  

The US did it to end the war with Japan.  Perhaps she just decided right then and there that she was ending the war forever.  

I think using the words “genocidal murderer” is putting a 2019 definition into a world where that didn’t exist.  In “real life history”, cities were sacked and people in the cities died. The face that she got to the point was definitely surprising to viewers (and Jon/Tyrion), and it certainly is out of character, as something people do for the first time usually is.  But it’s not unbelievable.  The turn makes sense. 

I don’t honestly know how they could have telegraphed it more. 

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Has anybody mentioned that Dany isn’t exactly a “normal” person?  Impervious to fire etc.

Should we expect her to fit onto some DSM checklist?

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3 hours ago, Aerial Assault said:

They did the same thing with Charlotte Hope (Myranda).  Not sure why this is so controversial.  

Omar from The Wire as well.

 

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I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

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I'd stay away from looking at any odds for who ends up on the Iron Throne if you want to avoid spoilers. Bovada has someone listed as a -500 favorite.

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6 hours ago, Mario Kart said:

You guys talk about how Varys was trying to poison Dany? Blew my mind when I figured that out.

When did they show/reference this? Must have missed it.

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25 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

When did they show/reference this? Must have missed it.

As far as I can tell, it never happened.  Someone suggested it, and others just latched onto it.

And I think that Varys sent the info to everyone he could.

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1 hour ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

I figure maybe that's how Dany gets taken out.  Bran wargs into the dragon and eats her or something.

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13 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I figure maybe that's how Dany gets taken out.  Bran wargs into the dragon and eats her or something.

It would be great to have Bran have an actual purpose in the show.  But still, given what we’ve been shown, I’d be surprised if anyone but Jon took her out.  That is, if she’s taken out at all.

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22 minutes ago, krista4 said:

It would be great to have Bran have an actual purpose in the show.  But still, given what we’ve been shown, I’d be surprised if anyone but Jon took her out.  That is, if she’s taken out at all.

True.  I'm not sure that people realize that he doesn't really see the future.  

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5 hours ago, Zow said:

I’d put it third behind The Wire and Sopranos and in the top tier of HBO shows.  

I say that having really like The Leftovers (I’m one of the few weirdos who actually liked season one the best) and Six Feet Under. Also currently enjoying Deadwood. These would be in the second tier along with Oz. 

That's fine.  

Imo if this was S1-4 of GOT it wouldnt be a discussion.  While it's still good TV, over the course of its run stuff like sand snakes, WW kidnappings, etc have decreased its epicness for me.  Plus I dont think they have stuck the landing on this show (we will fully see next week), which I would argue that Six Feet Under and Leftovers absolutely nailed - plus those shows stayed consistent throughout.  

Since Curb is on of my favorite comedies, I would throw that in the mix.  Just saying I don't think it's a crazy statement or trolling that it might not be a top 5 HBO show for someone. 

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2 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I figure maybe that's how Dany gets taken out.  Bran wargs into the dragon and eats her or something.

would love to see her on the opposite side of "DRACARYS!!!"  what a fitting end that would be, would be the most epic finale ever ... but HBO ain't gonna fry Clarke - still think it"s coming down to Jon to waste her, but would really dig having it be Sansa or Ser Brienne or Arya .

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6 hours ago, tonydead said:

She let 1000s of civilians into the red keep from kings landing. Remember?  Hound and Arya just made it through, Jamie didn't.  

Then maybe I am thinking of this wrong (damn old age if that is case).   I thought in the previous episodes, Cersei let in the people outside the walls of KL into the heart of the city as a barrier the forces of good need to get through, and the Red Keep is the big ### castle that Cersei was in.  It's not like there were civilians in that when it was tumbling down, just a lot more inside the city walls than usual.   MAP HERE   

I took that as Cersei's Troops were shutting main gates that they would have to get through - the dragon was taking those out and the walls around the city when Cercei was watching the battle.  

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3 hours ago, Charlie Harper said:

When did they show/reference this? Must have missed it.

Is that what people took from the scene with Varys and the child - that he sent her to do his dirty work and she was updating him that she wasn't drinking or eating?  She seemed worried about the guards, but was that just normal spy/Master of Whispers stuff.  

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2 hours ago, krista4 said:

It would be great to have Bran have an actual purpose in the show.  But still, given what we’ve been shown, I’d be surprised if anyone but Jon took her out.  That is, if she’s taken out at all.

I expect him to babble some cryptic nonsense and melt into a tree outside of Winterfell.  

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I know the deaths of Jamie and Cersei have been debated - but one of the unintended (intended?) consequences of how and where they died is that it seems unlikely the bodies will be found any time soon.

I don't think Daenerys will have known about Jamie's escape - and Tyrion's assistance - until after the fires die down.  But, she will learn about it - and when Cersei and Jamie cannot be found, she will probably assume they escaped - which does not bode well for Tyrion.

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5 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

I'd stay away from looking at any odds for who ends up on the Iron Throne if you want to avoid spoilers. Bovada has someone listed as a -500 favorite.

Yea I unfollowed those accounts a few weeks ago due to this kind of stuff. 

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5 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

well, he did fly in e3, when he warged into the ravens and coaxed the NK out the clouds, effectively setting all the key plot machinations into motion.

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9 hours ago, Daywalker said:

Dany killing thousands of women and children just to make a point is about as believable as jon doing it.

Lol no way.

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Is the official lazy take of the week "I don't believe\like the way dany flipped?"

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13 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Is the official lazy take of the week "I don't believe\like the way dany flipped?"

No, that is the lazy reading of legitimate criticism that the flip was unearned.  That if you need to use the previews to remind the audience of her occasional darkness, cruelty toward her enemies, and familial mental illness, that maybe...just maybe you haven't properly laid the groundwork for her turn from flawed & entitled champion of the oppressed innocent to the greatest homicidal mass murderer of innocents in the 12,000 year history of the world. 

But don't let that stop you and others from building up and then tearing down straw men.

 

Carry on.

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1 hour ago, otb_lifer said:

would love to see her on the opposite side of "DRACARYS!!!"  what a fitting end that would be, would be the most epic finale ever ... but HBO ain't gonna fry Clarke - still think it"s coming down to Jon to waste her, but would really dig having it be Sansa or Ser Brienne or Arya .

Umm she can't be fried

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5 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Umm she can't be fried

:doh:

thanks, i'll see my way outta here now ...

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13 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

HUGE. I’ve never heard anyone say they liked that character.

Yeah I have not heard fans say it...Ive heard the other actors talking positively about him though.

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6 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

He worgs into birds in his free time.

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12 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

I'm OK with it as a storytelling choice. In fact, I think it's a better storytelling choice than her taking over as a benevolent ruler. My issue is that it just wasn't sold nearly well enough. The bit at the end of "Prevoiusly on Game of Thrones" where they show Dany hearing a multitude of voices was :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If she legitimately had the "crazy Targaryen" gene/whatever, we would've seen it before now. She's been through a lot of traumatizing #### pre-season 8, that seeing the Red Keep and being the literal hours away from victory being the trigger that makes her cross the line just doesn't hold up.


 

 

But we have seen it before...over and over she talked about burning the city down or destroying her enemies only to be talked back by her advisors.

We saw the hopelessness of Tyrion trying to talk her out of it several times on the show...it worked until that last time.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

But we have seen it before...over and over she talked about burning the city down or destroying her enemies only to be talked back by her advisors.

We saw the hopelessness of Tyrion trying to talk her out of it several times on the show...it worked until that last time.

Tyrions fault his advice lately has sucked

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34 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Is the official lazy take of the week "I don't believe\like the way dany flipped?"

Why would be thinking about character motivations be a lazy take?

Lazy is the dude a few weeks ago that basically told everybody that it's not our show, so we need to stare at the TV and take whatever they give to us and like it.  

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When was the last time Tyrion had a great idea?  

Maybe his boozing and whoring got the brain going for him and he needs to return to the Imp days.  

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

That's fine.  

Imo if this was S1-4 of GOT it wouldnt be a discussion.  While it's still good TV, over the course of its run stuff like sand snakes, WW kidnappings, etc have decreased its epicness for me.  Plus I dont think they have stuck the landing on this show (we will fully see next week), which I would argue that Six Feet Under and Leftovers absolutely nailed - plus those shows stayed consistent throughout.  

Since Curb is on of my favorite comedies, I would throw that in the mix.  Just saying I don't think it's a crazy statement or trolling that it might not be a top 5 HBO show for someone. 

In fairness, I’m didn’t consider comedies (Curb and Veep then jump into the conversation) and I don’t know what to do with True Detective since that gave us the greatest single season of all time but doesn’t feel complete yet. 

So, yeah, I still think GOT should pretty easily rate in the top 5 hbo shows ever but I acknowledge there’s 7-8 other options that I couldn’t really criticize. 

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Man I looooooooooved the leftovers and it’s on my top-10 but I don’t think you can compare 3 seasons of that show to 8 of this. 

Although the final season of the leftovers may be the finest season of tv I’ve seen. So maybe! 

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6 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

When was the last time Tyrion had a great idea?  

Maybe his boozing and whoring got the brain going for him and he needs to return to the Imp days.  

the chain 😮

 

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7 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

Oh! I honestly hadn't even thought of that until now...Yeah, definitely possible.

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6 minutes ago, Morton Muffley said:

No, that is the lazy reading of legitimate criticism that the flip was unearned.  That if you need to use the previews to remind the audience of her occasional darkness, cruelty toward her enemies, and familial mental illness, that maybe...just maybe you haven't properly laid the groundwork for her turn from flawed & entitled champion of the oppressed innocent to the greatest homicidal mass murderer of innocents in the 12,000 year history of the world. 

But don't let that stop you and others from building up and then tearing down straw men.

 

Carry on.

Her mass murder didn't make any logical sense!

Was she supposed to ignore cersei's army which cersei had specifically said she had strategically intermingled with the townsfolk to slow dany down?

Would it help if she'd spent most of her life with ther dothraki, who lay waste to villages, and the one time she stopped them it ended with the loss of her husband, her son and her ability to ever bear children again?

Would it help if she were a targaryen, known for taking westeros by burning cities to the ground with their dragons? 

Would it help is king Robert had tried to kill her because the thought of a targaryen with a dragon and a dothraki hoarde coming to kings landing terrified him? 

Would it help if she'd met with her advisors in season 7 and tyrion had to advise her not to go destroy kings landing?

What about if she'd followed the advice, saying she didn't want to be queen of the ashes, but all of their alternative plans had failed miserably? 

Was she supposed to have her dragons burn people to send a message like she did in mereen with one of the masters?

Was she supposed to do it again to send a message like she did with the tarleys?

Was she supposed to act remorseless about killing people with her dragons like she did when she calmly told samwise that she'd killed his father and brother? 

Was she supposed to kill countless people like she did with the ships in slavers bay, the money train, the army of the dead, and the iron fleet?

Maybe if jorah had just died in her arms and then her dragon got shot down in front of her and then miss sandy got decapitated in front of her?

Maybe if varys openly betrayed her, and from her perspective tyrion appeared to have betrayed her as well?

Maybe if jon's claim to the throne was being made public hours before she finally completed her life long goal of taking kings landing? 

Maybe if jon rejected her and the only path left to the throne was to rule by fear? 

If that's not enough buildup, what would it take to make mass murder seem logical to you?  

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7 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

lol GRRM blog

There's my boi! Tell em George! #### you readers of books!

7 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I was thinking back to when the former 3 eyed Raven said to Bran "you will never walk, but you will fly".  Could this hint at Bran flying the last dragon?

While cool I guess that's not Bran's MO anymore. He observes but tries not to get involved. No reason for him to do this unless he wants to change history which isn't his charge. It would be way out of character for him to do this IMO. If the dragon has to be involved in this I'd rather see it bow to Jon over Dany, that would be a cool twist. I don't think either happen because it's outside of the obvious and this show has telegraphed everything that has taken place this season since episode 1. I don't look for them to break from that mold now.

35 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Umm she can't be fried

Not by normal fire...was it stated she could withstand super magic infused dragon fire?

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2 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Tell Not by normal fire...was it stated she could withstand super magic infused dragon fire?

That would be the worst ending they could possibly do. 

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Posted (edited)

There's nothing wrong with not liking the show. And i genuinely respect some of the issues people have had with the writing and decisions the show runners have made 

I feel like it's worth defending these things because all the negativity out there started to impact my enjoyment of the show, and i realized I still really liked it. 

The first posts after the episode said things like omg, best episode in years, this is vintage GoT.  Then a bunch of internet dorks who were already mad the show had outpaced the books took over the conversation.

This is the show only thread.  I bet if we had stuck with that there would have been a lot fewer complaints because it seems like the book people are complaining way louder. 

Please try to enjoy the one episode that you will ever have to see this show again. Just try. It shouldn't be a big thing to ask.

Edited by bostonfred
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On 5/12/2019 at 9:32 PM, Morton Muffley said:

So Grey Worm is a bad dude now too, right?

 

So Arya grabs Grey Worms face offscreen.  And the sidles up next to Dany  onscreen and....see ya Mad Queen

I could see that happening, but that would mean Grey Worm would need to die first. I guess I could see Jon taking GW out. 

 

2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Is that what people took from the scene with Varys and the child - that he sent her to do his dirty work and she was updating him that she wasn't drinking or eating?  She seemed worried about the guards, but was that just normal spy/Master of Whispers stuff.  

I didn't at first, I thought she was just a little bird. But considering that he specifically told her to get back to the kitchen before she was missed, it makes sense. 

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5 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

T

 

Not by normal fire...was it stated she could withstand super magic infused dragon fire?

She's the Mother of Dragons. What do you think?

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Well, I'm assuming the reviews reflect how most feel in here as well. Right? I know some people enjoyed the episode, but most didn't. I'm pretty ambivalent on it. I understand that they had to wrap up multiple character developments and story-lines, but this whole season was soooo rushed. These last 5 episodes should've taken an entire 10-episode season, if not longer. They took 6-7 seasons of intricate development on key characters, especially the females, to have it all go down like this? I guess...

1. Arya's fleeing was disappointing, but in the end Sandor protected her, which is respectable. I'm on board with the thinking that Bran sent the horse for her.

2. Cersei deserved worse. The "nothing else matters" embrace with Jamie was fitting, but I would've loved to see Dany torch them both while they were in that moment.

3. The Clegane fight was the best part of the episode. A+ on that. Epic. Perfect.

4. Dany's flip wasn't all that surprising, but I think they could've cut down on some of the "here's Drogon flying and burning the city" scenes. Could've squeezed in some more dramatic character engagements.

5. If I had to take a guess at who's on the Iron Throne in the end: 1. Sansa 2. Jon 3. Daenarys. Wouldn't be surprised if both Jon and Dany die in the final episode, leaving it to Sansa.

6. I really, really, really hope Tyrion survives.

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1 minute ago, bostonfred said:

There's nothing wrong with not liking the show. And i genuinely respect some of the issues people have had with the writing and decisions the show runners have made 

I feel like it's worth defending these things because all the negativity out there started to impact my enjoyment of the show, and i realized I still really liked it. 

The first posts after the episode said things like omg, best episode in years, this is vintage GoT.  Then a bunch of internet dorks who were already mad the show had outpaced the books took over the conversation.

This is the show only thread.  I bet if we had stuck with that there would have been a lot fewer complaints because it seems like the book people are complaining way louder. 

Please try to enjoy the one episode that you will ever have to see this show again. Just try. It shouldn't be a big thing to ask.

The snark is everywhere man. There is some guy on Twitter I genuinely enjoy reading saying Cersei got killed by rocks and the night king a butter knife and laughing about how dumb it is. I had to unfollow because I cannot allow that kind of just inherent stupidity into my brain. It’s like some of these trolls have a lobotomy 5 minutes after the show ends. 

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1 minute ago, BlueDredSo said:

Well, I'm assuming the reviews reflect how most feel in here as well. Right? I know some people enjoyed the episode, but most didn't. I'm pretty ambivalent on it. I understand that they had to wrap up multiple character developments and story-lines, but this whole season was soooo rushed. These last 5 episodes should've taken an entire 10-episode season, if not longer. They took 6-7 seasons of intricate development on key characters, especially the females, to have it all go down like this? I guess...

1. Arya's fleeing was disappointing, but in the end Sandor protected her, which is respectable. I'm on board with the thinking that Bran sent the horse for her.

2. Cersei deserved worse. The "nothing else matters" embrace with Jamie was fitting, but I would've loved to see Dany torch them both while they were in that moment.

3. The Clegane fight was the best part of the episode. A+ on that. Epic. Perfect.

4. Dany's flip wasn't all that surprising, but I think they could've cut down on some of the "here's Drogon flying and burning the city" scenes. Could've squeezed in some more dramatic character engagements.

5. If I had to take a guess at who's on the Iron Throne in the end: 1. Sansa 2. Jon 3. Daenarys. Wouldn't be surprised if both Jon and Dany die in the final episode, leaving it to Sansa.

6. I really, really, really hope Tyrion survives.

I can definitely get on board with #4. I loved that episode but at some point I got a little bored with all the destruction. The Wars/fights in general have always been my least favorite part of the show. 

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So talking thrones thinks he got legit spoilers and has quit doing videos?  What a bummer.  Following youtube comments to figure out what is going on with that is worse than getting people's lazy takes here.

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51 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Yeah I have not heard fans say it...Ive heard the other actors talking positively about him though.

Sure but what is Lena Headey going to say? "Oh yeah he sucks and the character is a bore. I hope they kill him off and get rid of the actor." 

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The reviews are awful but according to my dry erase board it makes sense and you should like it.

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so like didn't Martin layout his "thoughts" on th direction this should go?

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1 hour ago, Morton Muffley said:

No, that is the lazy reading of legitimate criticism that the flip was unearned.  That if you need to use the previews to remind the audience of her occasional darkness, cruelty toward her enemies, and familial mental illness, that maybe...just maybe you haven't properly laid the groundwork for her turn from flawed & entitled champion of the oppressed innocent to the greatest homicidal mass murderer of innocents in the 12,000 year history of the world. 

But don't let that stop you and others from building up and then tearing down straw men.

 

Carry on.

They have been getting her character wrong since the scene when she first bedded Daario, putting her in control, and not making her out to be the flighty young girl the character actually was/is. The problem wasn't failing to see the turn coming. The problem was watching them build up the character over the seasons knowing this turn was coming. Just like Martin with his cliffhanger endings to chapters throughout the book, the sudden twists grow old. Turning Mhysa into a murderer of innocents should've taken more than it did.

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