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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

Mile High said:
So Drogon should have had no problem killing Jon.
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Why? For all it knows, it simply found Jon mourning Dany's death. It doesn't know what happened before it got there. And clearly it has more affection for Jon than other people. There was no motivation for it to kill him. Of course we're spitballing on the intelligence of a fantasy animal here. But given what we've seen on the show, there's no reason to think these dragons are homicide detectives. I think it's more likely the dragon found its mother dead, didn't really understand why, and threw a hissy fit.

 
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-arcK- said:
Why? For all it knows, it simply found Jon mourning Dany's death. It doesn't know what happened before it got there. And clearly it has more affection for Jon than other people. There was no motivation for it to kill him. Of course we're spitballing on the intelligence of a fantasy animal here. But given what we've seen on the show, there's no reason to think these dragons are homicide detectives. I think it's more likely the dragon found it's mother dead, didn't really understand why, and threw a hissy fit.
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Good point.  

 
Again, to each his own.  I have no true reason or desire to question if someone liked a variation of art.  So if you didn't like this, more power to you.

For me, I watched most of the last episode again last night.  I enjoyed it more.  Yes I would have liked more episodes and seasons.  And I'm really interested in the political stuff that is now existing in the 6 kingdoms with Tyrion running the show for Bran.  That could be a show unto itself for me - just small council meetings.

Actually - if HBO were smart or capable - some kind of "show" that is nothing but a collection of 10 minute small council meetings with that group basically used as a bumper between other shows on HBO would be hysterical.  Like a mini podcast.  The Small Council Pod.  I'm in.

I'm on a tangent.  I have no real complaints about the last season.  Wish there was more.  Gonna miss the show.  And when I finally do go back and watch from the beginning one more time (since Westworld isn't on for another year now) seeing Dany progress will take on such a whole new meaning.  And the sadness of the pain that honor causes to people like Jorah..... that is good story telling.  

 
-arcK- said:
Why? For all it knows, it simply found Jon mourning Dany's death. It doesn't know what happened before it got there. And clearly it has more affection for Jon than other people. There was no motivation for it to kill him. Of course we're spitballing on the intelligence of a fantasy animal here. But given what we've seen on the show, there's no reason to think these dragons are homicide detectives. I think it's more likely the dragon found it's mother dead, didn't really understand why, and threw a hissy fit.
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I think this describes what the showrunners intended to portray, with Drogon blasting the throne being symbolic but coincidental.

Also, I'm not sure if Drogon would kill Jon even if it knew Jon killed Dany, but the show demonstrated multiple times that Drogon likes Jon because he's a Targ. In the scene before Jon killed Dany, Drogon stirred from its slumber to say what up. 

 
-arcK- said:
Why? For all it knows, it simply found Jon mourning Dany's death. It doesn't know what happened before it got there. And clearly it has more affection for Jon than other people. There was no motivation for it to kill him. Of course we're spitballing on the intelligence of a fantasy animal here. But given what we've seen on the show, there's no reason to think these dragons are homicide detectives. I think it's more likely the dragon found its mother dead, didn't really understand why, and threw a hissy fit.
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I'll have to go back and look or someone can chime in but I'm almost positive very shortly after Dany died, Drogon cried out and then showed up. Dany and Drogon, hell Dany and all her children, were joined together by some magical bond. I firmly believe Drogon knew Dany died at the hands of Jon but I also think he deferred to Jon because of his lineage. And I also think Drogon absolutely knew what he was doing when he melted the Iron Throne. No question in my mind.

The pack survives

 
beer 30 said:
I'll have to go back and look or someone can chime in but I'm almost positive very shortly after Dany died, Drogon cried out and then showed up. Dany and Drogon, hell Dany and all her children, were joined together by some magical bond. I firmly believe Drogon knew Dany died at the hands of Jon but I also think he deferred to Jon because of his lineage. And I also think Drogon absolutely knew what he was doing when he melted the Iron Throne. No question in my mind.

The pack survives
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I agree with all of that, FWIW.

 
beer 30 said:
I'll have to go back and look or someone can chime in but I'm almost positive very shortly after Dany died, Drogon cried out and then showed up. Dany and Drogon, hell Dany and all her children, were joined together by some magical bond. I firmly believe Drogon knew Dany died at the hands of Jon but I also think he deferred to Jon because of his lineage. And I also think Drogon absolutely knew what he was doing when he melted the Iron Throne. No question in my mind.

The pack survives
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Is Sansa getting stoned?

Oh, I like the thoughts as well.

 
jamny said:
It's not like the finale is getting universal acclaim outside of this board. I think comments here reflect what a majority of viewers are saying about it. At least from what I've read. Most of the comments I saw on Facebook immediately following it where saying wtf was that?
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0 clue what thread I posted, so sorry for repeats, but it's also telling when the actors are coming out and saying they didn't know WTF was going on with their characters.  I know NCW said that he had to create plot in his head for his scenes so his character's motivations made sense to him - because, you know, it wasn't on the page and in the show.  

Some of the interviews I've seen with D&D and their answers were odd about the show and characters too.  

 
I gotta be honest.

All the opinions expressed here - on all sides - have really made me enjoy this whole long series even more.

After thinking a bit, I think the reason I was so capable of being satisfied by "anything" is because I actually entered this season knowing nothing. In fact, in my first preseason prediction, I wrote that Littlefinger would come down to playing a super important - yet surprising role.

Whiff!  :doh:

My connection to this whole thing has always been through the books, with a 1000 foot view of the TV series (where one can miss LF dying 🤔). So, at 1000 feet, I loved it. 

I am now trying to fly a little closer in and view it from a TV series perspective. I have not really finalized my opinion on that side yet. But, the best way I can describe it is like this:

1) The series began as a complex, gritty and detailed long running production - 

2) It began somewhere to feel more like a "movie" than a "series"

3) At the final point, it was not even a "movie" but more of a "stage production/allegorical tale" - like an Opera or Fairy Tale for children - that keeps the major tropes moving in an interesting and meaningful way, but drops all pretense of being a "reality reflecting" device in some of the other aspects.

:2cents:

 
KarmaPolice said:
0 clue what thread I posted, so sorry for repeats, but it's also telling when the actors are coming out and saying they didn't know WTF was going on with their characters.  I know NCW said that he had to create plot in his head for his scenes so his character's motivations made sense to him - because, you know, it wasn't on the page and in the show.  

Some of the interviews I've seen with D&D and their answers were odd about the show and characters too.  
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I can't remember a cast ever ####ting on the end of their own show this much.

 
KarmaPolice said:
0 clue what thread I posted, so sorry for repeats, but it's also telling when the actors are coming out and saying they didn't know WTF was going on with their characters.  I know NCW said that he had to create plot in his head for his scenes so his character's motivations made sense to him - because, you know, it wasn't on the page and in the show.  

Some of the interviews I've seen with D&D and their answers were odd about the show and characters too.  
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This is really interesting to me. I agree.

After watching those interviews, I kinda got the impression that D&D were always scrambling to explain things that even they did not know or understand. And, as they learned more from GRRM (even tho is was maybe just an outline) - they had to keep dancing in different directions to keep up appearances.

And, as you mention, when actors don't know the full arc yet, it can be difficult to keep up continuity of character.

In the big picture, right now, this leads me to believe that the "end" was G's and the "highway" was D&D's...and the 2 lost good communication somewhere along the way.

I'd love to hear more about this, if anyone has anything.

 
How many people did Arya even get to kill on her list?  

Sidebar:

Then she wants go out on this big mystery - "what's West of Westeros" - only to find a ship apparently headed there.

 
The Dude said:
How many people did Arya even get to kill on her list?  

Sidebar:

Then she wants go out on this big mystery - "what's West of Westeros" - only to find a ship apparently headed there.
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She killed: Walder Frey, Meryn Trant,  Polliver, and Rorge

Others were killed/died before she could do it (or changed her mind): Beric Dondarrion, The Hound, The Mountain, Joffrey, Tywin, Cersei, Milisandre, Thoros

============

The ship had a Stark direwolf symbol on it so I assume she put together the crew for the specific quest.

 
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Man of Constant Sorrow said:
This is really interesting to me. I agree.

After watching those interviews, I kinda got the impression that D&D were always scrambling to explain things that even they did not know or understand. And, as they learned more from GRRM (even tho is was maybe just an outline) - they had to keep dancing in different directions to keep up appearances.

And, as you mention, when actors don't know the full arc yet, it can be difficult to keep up continuity of character.

In the big picture, right now, this leads me to believe that the "end" was G's and the "highway" was D&D's...and the 2 lost good communication somewhere along the way.

I'd love to hear more about this, if anyone has anything.
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Visually and soundtrack wise they had alot of 10s. Bottom line is they just weren't good/experienced enough to finish with a strong ending storyline without Martin's source material.  They did what they could. They banged out 13 episodes in 3 years and called it good. 

 
The one thing that's really growing on me the further I get away from that last episode is the concept of stories uniting people. It's how people get to know each other and have shared experiences.  Take internet message boards for example, especially ones like the FFA.  It wasn't that long ago someone had started a thread about putting our collective resources to accomplish some positive goal.  We don't get to that point unless a sense of community had been built, and that community, by my estimation, was built through stories (Evil Grin and Wikkid among the greats at that here).  So, ultimately, they sort of bumbled to that point, but if that was GRRM's idea all along, I'm good with the fact that he was able to get that across to us.

 
Captain Cranks said:
Being in season 4 where you've got the black smoke rolling around and people seemingly coming back to life, and everyone somehow knowing each other in a previous life, and apparent flashbacks and flashforwards galore, it's good to know that none of this ends up being explained.  😂
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When you finish let me know if I was right 

 
So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 

Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell? Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 

Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 

Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell? Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 

Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  
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I don't know if he was or wasn't but bran is a giant butthole for sure

 
KarmaPolice said:
So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 

Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell? Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 

Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  
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I'm sure it was discussed in this thread before the season started, but there was a good amount of speculation that Bran and the Night King were the same person through his warging/time travel.

So yeah, revealing there to be some connection and Bran having some ulterior motives could have been an interesting way to approach it.

 
KarmaPolice said:
So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 

Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell? Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 

Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  
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And what was he doing the entire attack on Winterfell? 

 
beer 30 said:
I'll have to go back and look or someone can chime in but I'm almost positive very shortly after Dany died, Drogon cried out and then showed up. Dany and Drogon, hell Dany and all her children, were joined together by some magical bond. I firmly believe Drogon knew Dany died at the hands of Jon but I also think he deferred to Jon because of his lineage. And I also think Drogon absolutely knew what he was doing when he melted the Iron Throne. No question in my mind.

The pack survives
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Looks like he's even faking being paralyzed imo

 
KarmaPolice said:
So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 
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I think yes.

KarmaPolice said:
Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell?
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Are we sure this is a lie? How did he phrase this? Did he say that he could not rule Winterfell - or - rule as King - or rule anything?

I don't know the answer.

KarmaPolice said:
Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 
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How many would have died via other possible paths and outcomes?

Does anyone know? Other than Bran?

KarmaPolice said:
Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  
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Why is this necessarily "evil"? I'm not saying it is "good", but...what other alternatives potentially existed? I'm not talking about alternate story lines - rather alternate Show-realities?

 
KarmaPolice said:
0 clue what thread I posted, so sorry for repeats, but it's also telling when the actors are coming out and saying they didn't know WTF was going on with their characters.  I know NCW said that he had to create plot in his head for his scenes so his character's motivations made sense to him - because, you know, it wasn't on the page and in the show.  

Some of the interviews I've seen with D&D and their answers were odd about the show and characters too.  
Click to expand...
I imagine being in the dark about the plot plus acting in front of a green screen 90% of the time, it can get pretty confusing.

 
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