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QB Case Keenum, HOU (3 Viewers)

Alluro said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .

ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.

For me it isn't about how much slack anyone gets, it is about evaluating their play objectively. Keenum has played well enough the Texans should give him the chance to grow and see what he can do the rest of the year. To date, there is nothing he's done that suggests yet that he will or should be the starter next year though, let alone an actual franchise QB.

I'm not anti-Keenum at all. But I think there is a lack of objectivity about him. Particularly in the local fan base. Sports radio right now is tough to listen to.
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Are you basing this wholly on the outcomes of the games (3 losses) or on his play on the field? What about his play in particular leads you to believe he CAN'T be the guy long term?
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Hey Alluro, I think you are missreading me here.

I said he played well enough he should continue the rest of the season. I said he hasn't shown enough YET that he should be ordained as the starter for next year. I never said there is something about him that means he CAN'T be a long term starter.

And it has nothing to do with the outcomes of his games. He's done some things well and some things he's done poorly. That for 3 games he's been a refreshing change from Matt Schaub is not reason enough to hand him the starter's reins for the long term future. Yet.

He's played well enough that compared to the only options for this year (Schaub, Yates, guy from street who doesn't know offense) he should definitely continue starting and show us what he can do and if he can improve in the areas he needs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .

ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.

 
Loan Sharks said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, I thought Freeman had potential. Still do, but he isn't putting it together.

 
FUBAR said:
Loan Sharks said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, I thought Freeman had potential. Still do, but he isn't putting it together.
Click to expand...
Lots of people were on freeman's bandwagon after his first year as an up and coming star.

 
Tool said:
FUBAR said:
Loan Sharks said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, I thought Freeman had potential. Still do, but he isn't putting it together.
Click to expand...
Lots of people were on freeman's bandwagon after his first year as an up and coming star.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, I am not saying that Freeman and Sanchez they did not have potential or they weren't players without a shot at becoming good players. But there are players that after you see them that in your mind have the highest chance of success. If Keenum doesn't succeed I would be surprised.

There is a big difference between picking up a guy you hope will develop into a franchise player and picking up a guy you believe will develop into a franchise player.

 
Loan Sharks said:
Tool said:
FUBAR said:
Loan Sharks said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, I thought Freeman had potential. Still do, but he isn't putting it together.
Click to expand...
Lots of people were on freeman's bandwagon after his first year as an up and coming star.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, I am not saying that Freeman and Sanchez they did not have potential or they weren't players without a shot at becoming good players. But there are players that after you see them that in your mind have the highest chance of success. If Keenum doesn't succeed I would be surprised.

There is a big difference between picking up a guy you hope will develop into a franchise player and picking up a guy you believe will develop into a franchise player.
Click to expand...
I guess i don't see why Keenum should succeed. Don't get me wrong, i agree he's looked pretty good so far But he's got a long way to go. Things can change quickly in the NFL after defenses get time to prepare and pinpoint QB's weaknesses. It's not common for undrafted QB's to succeed and i know it's happened before but the odds are still stacked against him.

 
Seems like the schedule looks ok for Keenum the rest of the way, vs. Oak, Jac, NE, @Jac, @Ind, Den, @Tenn.

 
How do you guys think he matches up against the Raiders this week? Foles hit a lot of big plays two weeks ago I could see Case and Andre Johnson doing the same thing

 
Houston turmOiler said:
How do you guys think he matches up against the Raiders this week? Foles hit a lot of big plays two weeks ago I could see Case and Andre Johnson doing the same thing
Click to expand...
I've been starting Case+Andre in two leagues the last two weeks and been killin' it thus far. Will continue until the well runs dry.

 
Houston turmOiler said:
How do you guys think he matches up against the Raiders this week? Foles hit a lot of big plays two weeks ago I could see Case and Andre Johnson doing the same thing
Click to expand...
I'm tempted to start him over Stafford. 90% chance that I won't, but I expect Case to do well enough that it's a close (if risky) call.

 
Yeah Im tempted to roll with him over RGIII....Houstons inability to pick up the blitz worries me but so does RGIIIs propensity to take big hits....sounds weird bc im not a Kubiak fan but i think having him back helps

 
PhantomJB said:
Squintz82 said:
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/11/12/qb-case-keenum-color-me-impressed/
Click to expand...
Nice piece and Mr. Waldman has certainly earned a lot of respect but he is a little late to the party. If you would have listened to Waldman in his Gut Check 283 after Keenum debuted against the Chiefs you would have left him on the waiver wire.

"If I'm the Texans' future opponents, I'm hoping Houston keeps Matt Schaub on the bench after what I watched from Keenum versus the Chiefs."
Click to expand...
Yeah, a lot of folks late to the party b/c they can't cover every team in the NFL. This was obvious in camp (Keenum the superior QB). I'm just glad I posted my thoughts last month here and helped a few of you guys out. I was getting a lot of chuckles when I drafted Case Who? in the last round of all keeper/dynasty leagues

 
FUBAR said:
Houston turmOiler said:
How do you guys think he matches up against the Raiders this week? Foles hit a lot of big plays two weeks ago I could see Case and Andre Johnson doing the same thing
Click to expand...
I'm tempted to start him over Stafford. 90% chance that I won't, but I expect Case to do well enough that it's a close (if risky) call.
Click to expand...
Ok, not doing this but I did drop kaep for Keenum to start on Romo's bye, maybe more.

 
Kaep was one of my keepers this year and luckily I didn't lose playing him over Keenum last week. Keenum is in my lineup unless he gets hurt or there is a paradigm shift in the offense in SF.

 
really thinking about playing him over Andrew Luck this week. Can anyone tell me why he starts out so fast and does nothing in the second half?

 
Just picked him up as my Rodgers replacement. Was debating about getting him last week, but went with Big Ben instead. Going to hope on the Keenum train for at least this week since Rodgers may return next week. So let's get it Case!

 
MattFancy said:
Just picked him up as my Rodgers replacement. Was debating about getting him last week, but went with Big Ben instead. Going to hope on the Keenum train for at least this week since Rodgers may return next week. So let's get it Case!
Click to expand...
I had him on my roster before Rodgers went down and have used him ever since and he seems like an excellent replacement. The price was right (free waiver pickup) and I much more enjoy watching him than messing around trying to acquire a Henne, Campbell/Weeden, etc. Heck, if I had Flacco right now, I wouldn't blink starting Keenum.

 
boilerdave said:
Deaddawg said:
Kaep was one of my keepers this year and luckily I didn't lose playing him over Keenum last week. Keenum is in my lineup unless he gets hurt or there is a paradigm shift in the offense in SF.
Click to expand...
Same here.
Click to expand...
Lucky indeed. As I posted in the Kaep thread I'm certainly not expecting every week play from him, and picked him as the last starter expecting to play matchups. Given that he was against the top defense against QB's in my league and Keenum was going up against #19--I had no reservations about starting Keenum even playing away. Didn't hurt that I'm a Panthers fan either. :cool:

 
Any dynasty trades for him lately? If so, what's his value? I offerred a 3rd round rookie pick for him, but got rejected.

 
Don Quixote said:
Any dynasty trades for him lately? If so, what's his value? I offerred a 3rd round rookie pick for him, but got rejected.
Click to expand...
I had traded him for a top 5 pick, 32 team league so QBs have higher value.

Different league, he was essentially traded for 2,3,4 round picks.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Don Quixote said:
Any dynasty trades for him lately? If so, what's his value? I offerred a 3rd round rookie pick for him, but got rejected.
Click to expand...
:oldunsure: I rejected a 3rd round rookie pick in a 16-team dynasty league...and, that was before the KC game.
Click to expand...
I bought him for two third round rookie picks (16 team, IDP) after the KC game in hopes that he might start going forward. Looks like a good deal right now but only really true if he is the starter going forward (not just this year).

 
I picked him up when Rodgers went down then also traded for rivers. I started rivers last week but planning on case this week...

 
Sinn Fein said:
Don Quixote said:
Any dynasty trades for him lately? If so, what's his value? I offerred a 3rd round rookie pick for him, but got rejected.
Click to expand...
:oldunsure: I rejected a 3rd round rookie pick in a 16-team dynasty league...and, that was before the KC game.
Click to expand...
My offer was in a 12-teamer, so maybe a bit more value to the rookie pick there. Thought he'd be a guy that I could cheaply acquire to replace Rodgers, but his value is looking higher than I thought.

 
Don Quixote said:
Sinn Fein said:
Don Quixote said:
Any dynasty trades for him lately? If so, what's his value? I offerred a 3rd round rookie pick for him, but got rejected.
Click to expand...
:oldunsure: I rejected a 3rd round rookie pick in a 16-team dynasty league...and, that was before the KC game.
Click to expand...
My offer was in a 12-teamer, so maybe a bit more value to the rookie pick there. Thought he'd be a guy that I could cheaply acquire to replace Rodgers, but his value is looking higher than I thought.
Click to expand...
Combination of less value in the rookie pick, and more value in a starting QB in a 16-team league.

 
need2know said:
really thinking about playing him over Andrew Luck this week. Can anyone tell me why he starts out so fast and does nothing in the second half?
Click to expand...
Just read that it's because the OLine gets tired. Also because they haven't been shifting their plays up for the second half, whereas the defense comes out, primed with how to handle what's happened for the first half of the game.

 
Squintz82 said:
Faust said:
Gary Kubiak won't commit to Case Keenum as QB
Click to expand...
That HAS to be coachspeak.... right?

When listening to him in the video, I'm starting to think this is just a ploy to keep pressure on Keenum to play well and win. At least I hope so.
Click to expand...
Eagles doing the same thing. There's really not a lot of upside in naming anyone the starter for the remainder of the season. If Belichek was asked if Brady was the starter for the rest of the season he'd probably say no.

 
If Kubiak put Schaub back in without Keenum getting hurt this city would have a meltdown....I love how this organization picks and chooses its spots to hold guys accountable, yet still....

trots out a terrible fat kicker

plays a swinging gate Fat Predator at RT

Only replaces a record setting pick six machine because of injury

...just to name a few. Keenum sure isnt perfect and has a lot to learn, but he is head and shoulders above Schaub. Gotta think he just wants to keep challenging the kid. Or hope....

 
Rotoworld:

Case Keenum hasn't thrown an interception in 102 pass attempts this season.

The franchise record is 110 consecutive attempts without an interception, set ironically by this year's pick-six king Matt Schaub. The stat proves that Keenum is capable of playing an aggressive, schoolyard kind of style while still protecting the football. He has seven touchdowns, zero picks and a 105.1 passer rating through games this season and will be a solid QB2 against the Raiders Sunday.


Source: Houston Chronicle
Click to expand...
 
Loan Sharks said:
Greg Russell said:
Shutout said:
Loan Sharks said:
I had no idea who this guy was until a month and half ago, I may be dazzled by the kool aid, but I love this guy. It has been a long time since I have been "wowed" by a young quarterbacks play. I think hes got it.
Click to expand...
It really does look like it .ANd just to remind ourselves of what a fine line perception of "franchise QBS" is, think about this for a second:

Had they pulled off the upset in KC and held on to beat Indy and won yesterday (I know, big IF but they were in all three games and really had a lead in the Indy game), can you imagine what the chatter would be about Keenum right now.

Everyone would be talking about how he just has that "it" and he's a winner. In general, he would Russell Wilson from last year. Not the biggest of stats or stature but just gets it done.
Click to expand...
He could also be Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, or Matt Cassel after their first year of starting where the same kind of optimism existed.
Click to expand...
Oh I know, but as a guy who has been playing fantasy football for a long time you have to trust your own eyeball test. I am wrong sure , but I am right more often than I am wrong.

The difference between Sanchez, Freeman and Cassel is when I put my eyeballs on them I NEVER thought Sanchez or Freeman were franchise quarterbacks, and it took Cassels good year in KC before I thought he could be a decent starter.

I have watched Keenum 3 straight games and he looks to me to have "it" something Sanchez never had.
Click to expand...
He reminded me of when Farve first came on when "The Magic Man" was knocked out in Green Bay ending his career. Not necessarily how Keenum plays, but his willingness to say eff it, sling the ball and just have fun. He may throw some bad balls and make some bad decisions but he'll come back and Chuck it down field with abandon.

 
Phenix said:
iamkoza said:
i can't believe it but i'm having a serious debate between case and cam... didnt see that coming
Click to expand...
He is just as likely to score as many TDs as Cam.

NAMES DO NOT WIN GAMES, POINTS DO!
Click to expand...
They do in my league, but then again I play in a $4,000 entry, Super-WCOFF, triple-reverse, double down, mirror league with a modified PPFDR base 8 scoring system along with CSTU & Philo.

 
Wreckincrew said:
Phenix said:
iamkoza said:
i can't believe it but i'm having a serious debate between case and cam... didnt see that coming
Click to expand...
He is just as likely to score as many TDs as Cam.

NAMES DO NOT WIN GAMES, POINTS DO!
Click to expand...
They do in my league, but then again I play in a $4,000 entry, Super-WCOFF, triple-reverse, double down, mirror league with a modified PPFDR base 8 scoring system along with CSTU & Philo.
Click to expand...
My car has a 350 - 30 over with a Muncie Rock Crusher (for those that still like to shift) and a 12 bolt with a blonde with double d's in the front seat. 10 5's at 5280.

 
Bump.

Where are dynasty owners at with Keenum? He's obviously worth more than the boring, proven QB2's just due to upside.

I haven't seen much of him. Is he looking poised and making tons of great throws/decisions? Or is he living off of Andre Johnson right now, and can that continue? No idea how to value this guy.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Bump.

Where are dynasty owners at with Keenum? He's obviously worth more than the boring, proven QB2's just due to upside.

I haven't seen much of him. Is he looking poised and making tons of great throws/decisions? Or is he living off of Andre Johnson right now, and can that continue? No idea how to value this guy.
Click to expand...
I'm a buyer but I really am not sure what to assume his future will be. I would be interested to see what he is being traded for today vs a few weeks ago. His value certainly continues to rise, but I am not sure by how much.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Bump.

Where are dynasty owners at with Keenum? He's obviously worth more than the boring, proven QB2's just due to upside.

I haven't seen much of him. Is he looking poised and making tons of great throws/decisions? Or is he living off of Andre Johnson right now, and can that continue? No idea how to value this guy.
Click to expand...
I think he is only worth more than those other QB-2's because he is "unknown" still kind of.

I don't see anything special when watching him, and now with a few games of tape I think defenses will attack his weaknesses.

In leagues like FFPC dynasty leagues, I wouldn't even roster him unless I had major issues at QB (which I do, picked him up since Rodgers got hurt)

 
ghostguy123 said:
I don't see anything special when watching him, and now with a few games of tape I think defenses will attack his weaknesses.

In leagues like FFPC dynasty leagues, I wouldn't even roster him unless I had major issues at QB (which I do, picked him up since Rodgers got hurt)
Click to expand...
To each his own but this take surprises me. I took a chance on him in my dynasty league after the Indianapolis game. I saw a lot of the intangibles you rarely see from young QBs, as far as pocket presence, accuracy on deep passes, not making dumb/hurried mistakes. I don't know how an off the street guy who throws for 350/3TDs.could leave anyone unimpressed, or at a minimum raise eyebrows. Maybe he ultimately proves to be fools gold, but I don't think many dynasty teams have the luxury to wait for a guy to be a proven stud before rostering.

 
Kubiak has lost it....hopefully he got himself fired today. At the end of the game Andre Johnson was visibily upset with Schaub...they exchanged words and Andre walked off the field before the game was over. Keenums big problem was the blitz and pass protection....the Texans are awful at dealing with it right now

 
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