I think it is a good educated risk to play Lewis this week. I think we all are uncertain of what Freeman has left because he didn't look great last season running the ball. If he's toast you might see Gallman on early downs.
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RB Devonta Freeman, BAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter zed2283
- Start date
ATB
Footballguy
Didn't he turn down an offer from Jacksonville after the release of Fournette? I know I heard that at the time.
Either way, the amount doesn't matter to me. Dude was clearly looking for a situation that would give him a platform to prove he's still a starter-caliber back in this league and position himself for a bigger payday next year.
He found it.
az_prof
Footballguy
No. My understanding is that Jacksonville worked him out and then didn't like him well enough to offer. I never read a quote from Freeman saying he was offered but didn't sign because they wouldn't make him a starter.
Seems more likely that he was starting to get desperate and finally took what was offered, 3 Million/1 year, because he wasn't going to get the 5 Million plus he thought he was worth.
No I don't think that's the case at all and it's why I've been steady rostering Freeman all over the place the last few weeks. Multiple reports I've read indicated he turned down a little more from SEA, turned down Philly and after Tampa reached out to him you heard Arians say he was to expensive which to me is a clear indication numbers were exchanged and Freeman passed. Finally after he visited Jacksonville what you read or heard was he was not able to agree to a contract, which most people seemed to take as a negative, but that's when my buying splurge started because the key takeaway was if you don't agree to a contract it means one was offered and refused. At this point it became clear to me that Freeman was going to wait for the right opening and while fantasy people feel all warm and secure when their player is actually on a team I felt pretty strongly waiting for a spot to open that gave him the pay and opportunity he wanted was the best fantasy outcome.Maybe the Eagles just weren’t interested after MSanders looked great & NYG was where Freeman could get a paycheck?
And then the final push I got to go pick him up in few leagues he was still hanging was last week when Josina Anderson said he had 4 teams interested in him and he was going to decide next week, was waiting to see were he felt he could get the most opportunity. He got it.
And while I agree that Dion should be main guy this week and maybe next I don't agree with the Giant beat writer who said Dion was the RB you'd want to own. Freeman and Dion are not winning awards for durability and as such neither is likely a bell cow, but give me Freeman after a week or two and it's not even close IMO.
Correct as I had just posted before seeing this and this is a classic example of how we all might have the same information but it's how you process it that matters. Most people just focused on he left Jacksonville unsigned which most people wrongly assumed meant no offer was made but after his visit it was reported they were "unable to agree to terms " which is pretty clear to me that an offer was made and refused. So those who assumed it mean no offer was made proceeded to cut him, while I was busy buying.
ATB
Footballguy
The way I took the reports a few weeks ago was that Jaguars worked him out and had interest but ultimately weren't willing to pay his asking price. Every report I saw made it seem that way but they were all very vague as well so who knows.
Either way, we know he turned down the same offer that Carlos Hyde got from the Seahawks.
He doesn't have to be a superior talent to any other starting RB in the league to be a valuable add off waivers for the mere fact that he is a starting RB in the NFL.
Same reason Mike Davis is valuable for however long CMC is out.
If he gives his owners flex-worthy output, he's worth a stash now.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I didn’t see a single report that even suggested Philly offered him anything. not one.
Only that he was going to visit with them.
Then it sounded like he put that off for a week. and went to NY & signed an incentive-laden contract. I’m not sure he ever even worked out for the Eagles.
I don’t agree with your assessment. He may well be the starter there eventually (~2 weeks when he gets the playbook down) but I don’t believe the narrative that he had his choice of locations. He took what he could get, and there’s no guarantee of a role.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to roster him -but I’d keep my hopes realistic if I did. He wasn’t great behind what was a better ATL OL, and with less of a RBBC.
IF he starts to command the lion’s share of touches in 2-3 weeks, he’s a flex at best.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All true, but there’s no guarantee he’s a starting RB at this point. Nor is there a guarantee he will be.
but he is worthy of a pickup and stash. No disagreement there.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ATB
Footballguy
We're not likely to know what promises have been made behind doors but I firmly believe Freeman wasn't taking any job whatsoever without upper management all but guaranteeing he would be the lead back with significant touches. He turned down 4+ million from Seahawks (who everyone believed would still lead the league in rushing attempts) because he wanted an opportunity to lead a backfield. Really simple.
For the most part I agree with all you are saying with exception of I don't think they guaranteed him any lead back role. Rather I think they guaranteed him an opportunity to compete for a significant role.
If you are interested here are some tweets from last week to give an idea of his mindset:
@JosinaAnderson
Sep 14
Just got off the phone with free agent RB Devonta Freeman. He tells me, "I'm ready for whatever team needs a vet." Freeman adds, he's currently choosing between 4 teams.
Sep 15
I just spoke to RB Devonta Freeman. He told me as of right now, he prefers to wait at least one more week to evaluate his options, because for him it's more important to have the opportunity to compete within his position group.
ATB
Footballguy
Yeah, agreed, that's why I said "all but guaranteed," like as close to a guarantee as you can get without explicitly stating it. You can't promise someone they will start regardless of performance or health. There are other factors in play but he's obviously not going to like being told that someone else is the team's lead back and he's being brought in for depth/change-of-pace/vet presence/what have you.
Perhaps you thought I meant on his visit last week. I have no idea what might or might not have been offered on that visit but per Jeff McClane back in May they made him an offer. So here is your one.
https://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/2020/05/philadelphia-eagles-reportedly-offered-contracts-to-carlos-hyde-devonta-freeman-lesean-mccoy-has-not-received-offer.html
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ATB
Footballguy
Pretty sure that was back in July. While I agree with your logic, I don't see how anyone could view this Giants situation as anything other than the perfect spot for someone looking to prove they are lead-back-worthy again.
Adrian Peterson is probably kicking himself for not waiting a few weeks.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Actually, this was probably the best season of all time to be in his position. With covid and all the injuries due to no preseason, he was in the driver's seat.
No one knows what conversations were had, but the most telling thing to me is the money. We haven't seen the specifics, but according to his salesman/agent Rosenhaus, it's for "up to" $3 mil. That really isn't a lot of money even if he hits all of the incentives, so it doesn't seem likely that he was "promised" anything other than an opportunity. Seems more likely that he thinks he can hold off the competition and at least get some touches in this backfield, but the odds of him being even flex worthy in fantasy aren't great IMO.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This. the argument by one in here that it wasn’t about money when Freeman went out and signed with Drew “show me the money” Rosenhaus is simply laughable.
Of course it’s about the money.
Manster
Footballguy
Dion Lewis is an old, 3rd down back who had one good season with the Pats....Gallman is a meh, career backup
Freeman is BY FAR the most accomplished of these guys.....and maybe he won't pan out at all, but he's easily the most intriguing fantasy option moving forward, imo.....I could see the argument for Lewis in ppr
Freeman is BY FAR the most accomplished of these guys.....and maybe he won't pan out at all, but he's easily the most intriguing fantasy option moving forward, imo.....I could see the argument for Lewis in ppr
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Banger
Footballguy
I definitely think Freeman would be the most productive back of the 3 but I think his ceiling is very low in this offense. Jones has looked terrible so far with Barkley in the backfield and teams having to respect his incredible talents. Without him what do the Giants have? No qb, fairly pedestrian wr's, overhyped TE and no running game to speak of. I see A LOT of 3 and outs and 14-44 kind of stat lines. The only thing you can really hope for is receptions in a PPR situation. I don't blame you for snagging him if you're in a bind but I see almost zero upside or ability to overachieve in this situation.
I guess this can spinned to fit anyone's POV.
Personally I don't think money was his prime motivation. I've not seen his contract yet but I'd bet my life the base is just like AP's and McCoy's which should be just a hair over a million. Vested vets who get this pay only count for around $630,000 against the cap which is why teams are signing the vet Rb's to that base and then offering a variety of incentives. It's highly unlikely Freeman reaches $3M.
Just listening to NFLN and they are saying he absolutely turned down more money from Seattle even if he maxed out his incentives which is unlikely since part of it is making the Pro Bowl. So if anyone wants to take an ant-Freeman stance you can say "this guy bet on himself and was wrong", "he got desperate and took what he could get", etc, etc.
For me since I don't think money was his prime motivation, reports suggest he was not taking just "any offer" just two weeks ago, or that when he turned down more from Seattle he later got desperate. I take this all as a positive that his prime motivation is not money but a chance to compete for a meaningful role. That he believes he found that situation means more to me then how much he got paid and what that implies.
And as for if he's good anymore or worth anything? We'll see, no one can know that for certain. But we are living in world were Jerrick McKinnon and Jordan Reed are actively helping teams right now and you don't have to jump into the way back time machine to a day when Freeman as a big asset to fantasy teams for at least a good stretch, like last year when he was the #7 PPR RB for most people's fantasy playoffs.
Personally I don't think money was his prime motivation. I've not seen his contract yet but I'd bet my life the base is just like AP's and McCoy's which should be just a hair over a million. Vested vets who get this pay only count for around $630,000 against the cap which is why teams are signing the vet Rb's to that base and then offering a variety of incentives. It's highly unlikely Freeman reaches $3M.
Just listening to NFLN and they are saying he absolutely turned down more money from Seattle even if he maxed out his incentives which is unlikely since part of it is making the Pro Bowl. So if anyone wants to take an ant-Freeman stance you can say "this guy bet on himself and was wrong", "he got desperate and took what he could get", etc, etc.
For me since I don't think money was his prime motivation, reports suggest he was not taking just "any offer" just two weeks ago, or that when he turned down more from Seattle he later got desperate. I take this all as a positive that his prime motivation is not money but a chance to compete for a meaningful role. That he believes he found that situation means more to me then how much he got paid and what that implies.
And as for if he's good anymore or worth anything? We'll see, no one can know that for certain. But we are living in world were Jerrick McKinnon and Jordan Reed are actively helping teams right now and you don't have to jump into the way back time machine to a day when Freeman as a big asset to fantasy teams for at least a good stretch, like last year when he was the #7 PPR RB for most people's fantasy playoffs.
Banger
Footballguy
seems like he wants an opportunity to play vs taking most money which is great and he'll certainly get that opportunity in NY but it doesn't change the fact that the Giants are a dumpster fire.
Birdie048
Footballguy
While I agree with the bold/highlighted statement, the NYG OL is not likely to allow him to show much. If he was hoping to get a chance to show his skill has not diminished, I applaud his ambition. If his goal was a long term contract or just play for a contender, I think he missed his mark.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t disagree with this. It’ll likely take a week or 2 for Freeman to learn the playbook, and it’ll be interesting to see what he has left.
But I don’t see a “feature back” role, as Berkley had. I do see a split with Lewis & Gallman.
He should have flex—value, as I said above. Now, in PPR will he be a better flex than a WR3?
That’s TBD.
ETA: Lewis looked pretty good after Barkley went down. Think you’re being a little dismissive of his ability.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
this could also mean he thought he’d get more elsewhere. Which seems like the more realistic scenario.
Just because he turned down the Seahawks offer of more doesn’t necessarily mean he knew he’d be taking a lesser offer later.
talk about spinning...post hoc fallacy to claim money isn’t a motivator. Maybe he just blew it by not accepting the Seahawks offer.
Then he fired his agent and hired a guy who’s known for getting players the most $, which seems to support the idea that he should have taken the Seahawks offer.
Whatever. He’s a Giant now, with an incentive laden contract and an opportunity to be the lead dog. We’ll see how he performs. I’m hardly a Freeman hater. I didn’t think he was very good at the end of his Falcons tenure, but maybe this is his time to shine.
time will tell.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yep - they have the opportunity to prove me wrong but I think this team is poorly coached with a mediocre and volatile QB and even if it develops an OL that will cap at leaky. Volume matters, but I'll be surprised if there are any weeks I actually want to start him.
Manster
Footballguy
So how bad is the OL really? They looked bad in the first two, obviously. Can they get better? I have no clue about them other than they graded to middle/lower of the OL's and Solder opted out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
YoUnG GuNz
Footballguy
ATB
Footballguy
What's your point? Freeman is unlikely to play much if at all less than a week after signing.I’m guessing the O/U for the Niners/NYG game is like 6.5? So yeah. So with that what you will also.
lol
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ATB
Footballguy
Top-5 vs Bottom-10. I get your point but my point was not to say Freeman will do what he did last year in ATL. It's to say that he was a top-25 fantasy back while missing multiple games. He was far from a scrub and I believe he even won some weeks in the playoffs last year.
He's likely at 100% health which I don't think he ever was last year.
Despite this being a downgrade from an offensive talent perspective, it's an upgrade on his O-line and it's an upgrade on his health.
If he can give flex-worthy/low RB2 output, he'll be a welcomed addition to most fantasy rosters.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Most leagues start 2, so that’s flex-worthy.
maybe.
I say maybe because he was RB25 as a primary ball carrier. And to @humpback’s point, That’s on a Falcons offense that played competently & thus had lots of touches.
the giants don’t have lots of touches because they’re a bad offense (so far). That, & we do not yet know what Freeman’s role will be. If it’s a 3-headed time-share, I wouldn’t expect RB25 numbers. If the Giants offense doesn’t show the ability to sustain drives, (which generates more touches) he won’t be a top 25 RB.
I added Lewis & if he’s going to be the primary on Sunday I may emergency-start him at flex. But if say, Crowder starts, or Adams is out, imma play MVS or Crowder.
this is all a wait & see until say, week when Freeman’s had time to assimilate & we’ve had a chance to see how the Giants use him.
It remains to be seen if he’s going to be flex-worthy. If the offense is stuck in 2nd gear, I don’t see why anyone would be running out Freeman hoping for good things to happen.
The point is that the reason he was a top 25 fantasy back last year was because he was on one of the best offenses, not because he performed great (by any stretch). There is a reason he was cut and no one wanted to give him a starting job before this.
We have no idea how healthy he is nor what kind of shape he's in. There have been a rash of injuries due to the crazy offseason, and he's had even less practice time than they did.
Agreed that if he can give flex-worthy/low RB2 output he'll be a welcomed addition, I just think that's pretty unlikely. Too much has to go right IMO- he'll have to be the 3-down RB, stay healthy, and have the offense gel and play better. Could happen, but wouldn't bet on it.
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Tanner9919
Footballguy
there's little or no fantasy value in any Giants RB the remainder of the season. stacked boxes, make danny dimes beat you.
lousy line, poor play calling, general fecklessness. look elsewhere
lousy line, poor play calling, general fecklessness. look elsewhere
MAC_32
Footballguy
It was one thing when they were installing a 1st round rookie opposite Solder. Attempting to do so across from a journeyman in this particular offseason was never feasible. Yes, they can get better. I wouldn't expect it though.
Manster
Footballguy
I don't disagree with this sentiment, other than a lot can happen in the next few weeks......we are seeing a huge amount of guys injured, and it's not like the NFC East has good D's, other than maybe the skins.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
