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US Men's National Team (15 Viewers)

He's been a very well respected coach and tactician... Good stuff for this role, imo. He's no beautician though, in spite of however much lipstick he tries to put on Zardoz and the rest of these players.
He wasn’t considered a good tactician by those in the know, just a guy who had one tactical formation down to a T.  Of course, that doesn’t work in international football.  

Maybe the federation will learn from the mistake and hire Marsh or be really outside the box and try to lure Torrent (they blew the hiring of Tata), but I somehow doubt it. 

 
He wasn’t considered a good tactician by those in the know, just a guy who had one tactical formation down to a T.  Of course, that doesn’t work in international football.  

Maybe the federation will learn from the mistake and hire Marsh or be really outside the box and try to lure Torrent (they blew the hiring of Tata), but I somehow doubt it. 
I don't remember that conversation prior to his hiring. Mostly that he he took a small market team and regularly had them punch past their weight due to strong team tactics.

And dont get me wrong- I can't say I'm a fan of his selections or that false RB thing being Adams only involvemt w the US so far.

My main point was... I don't see Tata, torrent, Wenger, TSO or anybody else turning this group of players (granted, key people constantly injured) into much more than they are under GGGGG.

 
I don't remember that conversation prior to his hiring. Mostly that he he took a small market team and regularly had them punch past their weight due to strong team tactics.

And dont get me wrong- I can't say I'm a fan of his selections or that false RB thing being Adams only involvemt w the US so far.

My main point was... I don't see Tata, torrent, Wenger, TSO or anybody else turning this group of players (granted, key people constantly injured) into much more than they are under GGGGG.
I do know we wouldn’t be seeing Trapp and Zardes under anyone else.  I’m frankly glad he’s too stubborn to bring in Parks (and Sands earlier in the year). 

Its just shocking to me that it’s still occurring.

 
Berhalter must have really nailed his USMNT interview to beat out Jesse Marsch. Because how could you not be impressed with Marsch and his credentials.  The only way I see Berhalter winning that battle is if they somehow just completely dropped the ball and didn't even interview Marsh, but that would be crazy, right?
Did Marsch want the job? I love Marsch, but I do wonder if you could teach that type of extreme gegenpressing style with the limited time you get with National Team players.

 
you have to admit, there has not been a lot to celebrate.

*Out of our 3 best players, 2 are hurt and 1 has been marginalized at his club.

*We have a coach who appears to insist on calling players we know plenty about that are not good enough, while leaving other prospects (ones that have prettier girls looking at them) out.

*Then we have our fearless federation which appears to be trying to break a record to find out how many different entities they can be sued by.

*And then just this week, we have a beloved former US International and US youth coach defect to Mexico to help poach US players.

Dark days indeed.  I thought the low point was wet and bumpy but it just won't quit.
:goodposting:

 
The latest statement from Dest (he says he turned down a call-up from the Netherlands too) seems like he is genuinely conflicted.  It's kind of refreshing to see a player take it this seriously.
I’d like to see his pro/con list. The only thing I can imagine being in our favor is an easier path to the first eleven. 

 
I’d like to see his pro/con list. The only thing I can imagine being in our favor is an easier path to the first eleven. 
He's said that the USSF believed in him while the KNVB was interested in other players they thought were better.  I also think that the the latest U20 group seemed to have a lot of real affection for one another and he has a chance to kind of lead those guys into the senior team picture.

But on the other hand, he's Dutch.  Ajax might not appreciate what they perceive as a lack of loyalty.  And it's a hell of a lot easier on a pro's body to travel across Europe for international commitments than to travel across the Atlantic.  So who knows?  He says he hopes to have decided by next month.

 
Thought this was a good post on r/ussoccer

https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/comments/dckema/a_chelsea_fan_weighing_in_on_christian_pulisic/

Hi r/ussoccer,

Chelsea fan here coming in peace. I saw this sub over in my own home of r/chelseafc and decided to weigh in with my two cents on why I believe that the plethora of circumstances surrounding the club in general have created a difficulty in opportunity for Christian Pulisic, but also hopefully providing an optimistic outlook on his future at the club. I hope i'm not breaking any rules by posting this - I would just like to open some genuine discourse on the matter.

I think the first port of call in this discussion has to start with our incredibly unfortunate injury record this season. We're currently missing our only competent left back in Emerson for the foreseeable future and I hold the personal belief that it's forcing Frank's hand in deploying a three back system to accommodate his replacement in Marcos Alonso. MA has excelled in the past whilst operating in a 'wing back' role, but the absolute polar opposite when asked to perform the duties of a traditional left back and it does make *logical sense*, especially given our disastrous defensive record this season, that Frank would opt for a 'safer system' in high stakes games. Whilst I still maintain that Pulisic has been hard done by in recent weeks, the usage of 'inverted wingers' in the 343 we're deploying does slightly put him out of favour in comparison to the likes of Willian and Pedro who have played the roles before, or Mason Mount who's responsible for leading our press and winning the ball back high.

I haven't seen anything in the three/four games we have used a 3ATB thus far to genuinely believe it has distinct potential when Frank has a healthy cohort of players to choose from after the international break. It gives us slightly more defensive rigidity but at total expense of midfield control and it renders us almost useless when creating in the attacking phase of play. Our xG when using 3ATB has been highly questionable and supportive of the theory that we're simply not creating enough - just 1.2 against Lille tonight, which speaks volumes in comparison to the 4.13 we conjured up against Brighton last week when Frank opted for our more comfortable 433. It's simply not a sustainable system and the fact that we've literally just spent an entire season mastering an intense, high-pressing 433 with Maurizio Sarri last year leaves me with optimism that we'll return to the familiar system when integral players like Emerson and Kante are back for it.

What does this mean for Pulisic? When we finally revert to a four back system, it will create a myriad of opportunities for two distinct reasons - not only the fact that Chelsea will likely be playing in at least three, possibly four competitions, but the fact that his player profile distinctly matches the winger role in both 4231/433 lineups. He *has* to get minutes when we're playing two matches every week - or otherwise our players would just burn out.

It's also important to give personnel a mention, and who Pulisic will be competing with when we have a fit cohort to choose from. Willian (31yrs) and Pedro (32yrs) obviously don't have age on their side and they have been two of the club's most notorious villains for inconsistency in recent seasons - and that's not an exaggeration. The goal that Willian scored vs Brighton over the weekend was the first in almost nine months and Pedro's last non-penalty goal for the club came in February. Not trying to suggest here that goals are the be and end all of a player's success but they're not regular nor consistent contributors to our attacking game and it's generally expected that at least one of them will leave in summer 2020. One of the more serious competitors is Callum Hudson-Odoi. He's absolutely adored by the fans and has incredible hype around him, whilst also providing two assists in two substitute cameos since returning from his ACL tear last season. Just signed a fresh five year deal and looks to be set on starting for the senior team regularly, and there's big expectation in and around the fanbase that he'll have a place nailed down by Christmas.

The point i'm trying to make here is that Willian and Pedro don't necessarily set the bar staggeringly high and I personally believe that it wouldn't take the world to shift one of them from a starting position. They do the basics well though, and Frank has publicly stated a preference for high pressing and tracking back/defensive contribution in the winger's role in a typical Chelsea XI. Pulisic has to master both of these characteristics and do them equally as well, but otherwise it's just a case of taking chances and proving himself when the right time arrives. It takes a strong mentality to play for a club like Chelsea and I firmly believe that this is the very test of what he's about - one that will bear incredible reward when/if he overcomes the challenges of adaptation.

I really like the lad, for the record. He says the right things and there's nothing to suggest that he isn't training as hard or working as hard as other players in the squad. I mean come on now, the lad cut his summer holiday short to come back early and impress for pre-season. It's *exactly* the attitude I want to see in a Chelsea player and I can't help but feel like he has been incredibly unfortunate because of the aforementioned factors such as the forced 3ATB system and moving to the most physical league in the planet. He hasn't performed as well as we'd hoped thus far but I was never expecting fireworks in the first month of competitive play - the culture shock alone of moving to the PL from overseas merits an adaptation period and he deserves to be given just that.

This has got pretty long-winded but the TLDR is as follows: He's absolutely going to get chances this season. We're playing in three/four competitions and will be likely reverting to a traditional winger four back system when our full personnel is back and fully fit to play. Lampard has proven that he chooses players on merit and Christian just has to work hard and take every opportunity that's handed to him. His competition in Willian and Pedro isn't a million miles away in regard to genuine ability and output on the field. The spot is his for the taking.

Thanks to anyone that's taken the time to read this. I have unwavering respect for our friends across the pond and hope this comes across well. Would love to hear some opinions to any of the points made above.

Cheers!

 
Fwiw, lamps running a 3-4-2-1, with Willian starting as one of the two and Pedro/Hudson ohboy on the bench. This non 18 for CP is a product of tactics today imo, as CP is clearly behind those two guys and no point dressing him in this setup. Kante and Giroud back on the squad too, so two less spots.

Of course, if this turns into a preferred system, this could be the beginning of the end unless CP either steps up or benefits from injuries ahead of him.

Eta..mount starting with willian


Thanks for that... Kinda mirrors what I thought yesterday- but much better thought out and articulated.

 
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Any chance Lampard is in totally over his head and has no clue what he’s doing?
Absolutely.

But in regards to CP...does anybody here think he deserves to be starting based on his play there so far? I don't like seeing him not dress, but he hasn't really shown his quality in games yet, while some of the other guys have...at least a bit more than him.

 
Absolutely.

But in regards to CP...does anybody here think he deserves to be starting based on his play there so far? I don't like seeing him not dress, but he hasn't really shown his quality in games yet, while some of the other guys have...at least a bit more than him.
I think he showed some quality and deserves to get a start here and there, cup games and some league games, which is exactly what he's getting.  He'll get more when the fixture list starts to get busy, injuries happen and he gets more comfortable with the team.  He's still got more league minutes than Pedro and is just behind Barkley and Willian. Its really much ado about nuttin.  I'm sure we can all name a dozen or so players who took a month or two to get used to a new team, new manager and new league, before flourishing.  He's on track for the reasonable expectations most had for him when he joined the club.  In other words, if you expected him to be starting every game by the end of September, you're disappointed right now because your expectations were unreasonable.  If you expected he'd be getting starts and minutes in big games by midseason, and be in line for a nailed-on starting position by the end of the year when the old guys move aside, I think he's still on track for that.  Of course it could all go to #### and be a disaster for him, but that will only happen if he's truly not up to it.  There are worse things that could happen.  Donovan had bad spells in Europe. Jozy failed miserably in the premier league.  We can even look at someone like Yedlin, who wasn't up to the task for Spurs, but found his place and is a starting premier league player.

 
Absolutely.

But in regards to CP...does anybody here think he deserves to be starting based on his play there so far? I don't like seeing him not dress, but he hasn't really shown his quality in games yet, while some of the other guys have...at least a bit more than him.
Yeah, I’m with you. He’s been ok at times and there was one PL match I watched (can’t even remember which one, we commented on it in here) where he was truly bad. I don’t necessarily blame Lampard - it just seems like a less than ideal situation for all involved 

 
I think he showed some quality and deserves to get a start here and there, cup games and some league games, which is exactly what he's getting.  He'll get more when the fixture list starts to get busy, injuries happen and he gets more comfortable with the team.  He's still got more league minutes than Pedro and is just behind Barkley and Willian. Its really much ado about nuttin.  I'm sure we can all name a dozen or so players who took a month or two to get used to a new team, new manager and new league, before flourishing.  He's on track for the reasonable expectations most had for him when he joined the club.  In other words, if you expected him to be starting every game by the end of September, you're disappointed right now because your expectations were unreasonable.  If you expected he'd be getting starts and minutes in big games by midseason, and be in line for a nailed-on starting position by the end of the year when the old guys move aside, I think he's still on track for that.  Of course it could all go to #### and be a disaster for him, but that will only happen if he's truly not up to it.  There are worse things that could happen.  Donovan had bad spells in Europe. Jozy failed miserably in the premier league.  We can even look at someone like Yedlin, who wasn't up to the task for Spurs, but found his place and is a starting premier league player.
Good stuff.

I think once he gets time and converts some of his darting run/dribbles into goals and assists- it'll help him turn the corner and gain more minutes. But I think his play needs time for teammates to understand what he'll be doing better, plus he needs time to figure out his defensive responsibilities.

And fwiw, That Salah fella didn't set the Epl on fire at first either.

 
you have to admit, there has not been a lot to celebrate.

*Out of our 3 best players, 2 are hurt and 1 has been marginalized at his club.

*We have a coach who appears to insist on calling players we know plenty about that are not good enough, while leaving other prospects (ones that have prettier girls looking at them) out.

*Then we have our fearless federation which appears to be trying to break a record to find out how many different entities they can be sued by.

*And then just this week, we have a beloved former US International and US youth coach defect to Mexico to help poach US players.

Dark days indeed.  I thought the low point was wet and bumpy but it just won't quit.
totally agree, wasn’t complaining about anyone in here, it’s just the reality of the situation. It’s not us - it’s them 

 
Good stuff.

I think once he gets time and converts some of his darting run/dribbles into goals and assists- it'll help him turn the corner and gain more minutes. But I think his play needs time for teammates to understand what he'll be doing better, plus he needs time to figure out his defensive responsibilities.

And fwiw, That Salah fella didn't set the Epl on fire at first either.
Hazard hasn't exactly been a superstar for RM yet.

 
Hazard hasn't exactly been a superstar for RM yet.
I'm trying to remember if he started well at Chelsea.

Feel like there a lot of players like Salah who come in to the league young, stumble at first, and find their legs eventually.

As clete's been reminding us, it's still very early in CPs Chelsea season and career

 
Yeah, I’m with you. He’s been ok at times and there was one PL match I watched (can’t even remember which one, we commented on it in here) where he was truly bad. I don’t necessarily blame Lampard - it just seems like a less than ideal situation for all involved 
Feels like we're all in the same place as US fans.

That's said, this kind of competition can improve CP, and he seems to have the temperament to want to overcome (as opposed to an LD) this tough patch to find minutes.

 
Feels like we're all in the same place as US fans.

That's said, this kind of competition can improve CP, and he seems to have the temperament to want to overcome (as opposed to an LD) this tough patch to find minutes.
This is the part that keeps me grounded when thinking about CP/Chelsea.  He'll be better for it in the long run, IMO.

He can barely buy a beer legally...  Lets give him some space to find his way at one of the biggest clubs in the world.  

 
FWIW

=================================

@RGonzalezCBS

From an Ajax teammate of Dest that isn't Dutch, I am told right now that he is favoring the USMNT over the Dutch national team with his main concern being playing time.

 
Dest:

Cons:

*He is Dutch born and likely feels a strong pull to play for Holland

Pros:

*If he hits as a US player his sponsorship dollars from NIKE etc are going to be higher than playing for Holland, IMO

*He is far more likely to be a regular US player than a regular Dutch player

*He will have a high paying gig likely in MLS when he turns 30 if he wants it as a US player.  That won't likely be there if he plays for Holland

 
Dest:

Cons:

*He is Dutch born and likely feels a strong pull to play for Holland

Pros:

*If he hits as a US player his sponsorship dollars from NIKE etc are going to be higher than playing for Holland, IMO

*He is far more likely to be a regular US player than a regular Dutch player

*He will have a high paying gig likely in MLS when he turns 30 if he wants it as a US player.  That won't likely be there if he plays for Holland
Cons - he’ll play on a good team if he goes Dutch and won’t be playing on wet and bumpy fields. Home games will have more people cheering for the home team. Won’t be called a punta. Better coach

pros - will get to play with Zardes 

 
With Pulisic being listed as a midfielder, do you think we have any hopes to finally see a 4-2-3-1?

........................Steffen

Cannon......Long.......Ream........Lima

..................Weston.....Bradley

Nips...............Pulisic..............Morris

..................Jozy

I fear GGG is going to put Ream at LB again.

I think Cannon needs to start against Canada to match up speed with Davies (assuming Yedlin is not yet fit for 90 minutes).

 
For those that have not seen it, take three minutes out of your day and listen to Jesse Marsch's half time speech in Half German, Half English.   it is awesome.  I am not a GGG basher (yet) but I don't know if he has this in him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc1wFH_2YnI
Now I want to go out there a ####### kick ####### ###.  

(And I only understood half of what he said.)

 
El Floppo said:
I'm trying to remember if he started well at Chelsea.

Feel like there a lot of players like Salah who come in to the league young, stumble at first, and find their legs eventually.

As clete's been reminding us, it's still very early in CPs Chelsea season and career
This dude

But one thing he and Salah have in common is going elsewhere to hone their skills.

 
Ned said:
This is the part that keeps me grounded when thinking about CP/Chelsea.  He'll be better for it in the long run, IMO.

He can barely buy a beer legally...  Lets give him some space to find his way at one of the biggest clubs in the world.  
He's been able to buy beer for several years where's he's been living.

 
We have talked on and off about our lost generation of players.  I was looking through the U20 WC squads to see if I could find a good example.

Our 2009 and 2011 U20 teams really stand out for how bad the players were in terms of effecting the National Team.  The 2011 team did not qualify for the WC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup_squads#_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_CONCACAF_U-20_Championship_squads#United_States

Out of all those players we have currently only have Lletget and Johnson.  That's it.  A couple of other players have had some cups of coffee but it is mostly barren.

The most famous guy on those teams is kicking in the NFL right now :(

 
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El Floppo said:
I'm trying to remember if he started well at Chelsea.

Feel like there a lot of players like Salah who come in to the league young, stumble at first, and find their legs eventually.

As clete's been reminding us, it's still very early in CPs Chelsea season and career
Fabinho was a bit older, but I don’t think he played much at all the first couple months for LFC last year and now he’s a regular. Gabriel Jesus has been at City 2+ years and still can’t get minutes, but no one doubts his quality. Same with Foden. They paid 60m for Cancelo and he has 37 league minutes so far. It’s probably harder to come up with a list of 21 year olds new to the league who contributed immediately. Hazard might be one, but he came in as a 2x PoY in France.  It really is a complete non story. 

 
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Fabinho was a bit older, but I don’t think he played much at all the first couple months for LFC last year and now he’s a regular. Gabriel Jesus has been at City 2+ years and still can’t get minutes, but no one doubts his quality. Same with Foden. They paid 60m for Cancelo and he has 37 league minutes so far. It’s probably harder to come up with a list of 21 year olds new to the league who contributed immediately. Hazard might be one, but he came in as a 2x PoY in France.  It really is a complete non story. 
It took Bernardo Silva most of his first season at City to really settle.  He probably should have been on the Ballon D'Or shortlist this year.

 
It took Bernardo Silva most of his first season at City to really settle.  He probably should have been on the Ballon D'Or shortlist this year.
Are we seriously comparing Silva going into that loaded Citeh squad (essentially the same one he hasn't been an auto-start in this year) with Pulisic not even dressing with the bunch of rejects, nobodies, and also-rans that Chelsea is throwing out there this year?

 
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Are we seriously comparing Silva going into that loaded Citeh squad (essentially the same one he hasn't been an auto-start in this year) with Pulisic not even dressing with the bunch of rejects, nobodies, and also-rans that Chelsea is throwing out there this year?
This comment would make sense if someone had said, "Pulisic is in the exact same place as Bernardo Silva and these other players were."  But that's not the point.  The point is that it is normal for young players who come to England to have a period of settling in. No one knows what the future holds for Pulisic, but there's really no reason for concern that he's not a regular starter in the first couple months of his first season in the Premier League.  Pulisic is battling for minutes with two experienced players - a Spaniard and a Brazilian - each of whom have a closet full of trophies. There's no reason to think this kid is going to put those guys on the bench in his first few weeks with the club.

 
This comment would make sense if someone had said, "Pulisic is in the exact same place as Bernardo Silva and these other players were."  But that's not the point.  The point is that it is normal for young players who come to England to have a period of settling in. No one knows what the future holds for Pulisic, but there's really no reason for concern that he's not a regular starter in the first couple months of his first season in the Premier League.  Pulisic is battling for minutes with two experienced players - a Spaniard and a Brazilian - each of whom have a closet full of trophies. There's no reason to think this kid is going to put those guys on the bench in his first few weeks with the club.
I think the issue is that Lampard has said... and shown that this is a building year for Chelsea.  He's preferred Mount to English international Ross Barkley.  He's preferred Tammy to both Batshuayi and Giroud despite both of them having tons of experience.  He played Reece James in a very important CL game despite him being 18 with zero CL experience.

It seems the only young guy not getting preferred placement over the old guard is Pulisic.  Now, we don't see practice and maybe he's been awful in training, but given what he's done in his career and the skills he's shown to this point, it's odd that Lampard prefers two 31+ year old guys instead of the 21 year old kid with tons of potential when he's preferred the younger guys at every other position.

I'd see it if Willian and Pedro were playing incredible right now, but Pedro's been awful in the games I've watched and Willian has been marginally better than Pulisic at best, so it's just confusing to me.  I agree that it's still very early and he'll get his chances, but this isn't the same situation that other big signings are dealing with.  There are 4 new starters in the preferred 11 for Chelsea this year and all of them are youth players..... yet their youth $70M signing can't even make the bench.  

 
I think the issue is that Lampard has said... and shown that this is a building year for Chelsea.  He's preferred Mount to English international Ross Barkley.  He's preferred Tammy to both Batshuayi and Giroud despite both of them having tons of experience.  He played Reece James in a very important CL game despite him being 18 with zero CL experience.

It seems the only young guy not getting preferred placement over the old guard is Pulisic.  Now, we don't see practice and maybe he's been awful in training, but given what he's done in his career and the skills he's shown to this point, it's odd that Lampard prefers two 31+ year old guys instead of the 21 year old kid with tons of potential when he's preferred the younger guys at every other position.

I'd see it if Willian and Pedro were playing incredible right now, but Pedro's been awful in the games I've watched and Willian has been marginally better than Pulisic at best, so it's just confusing to me.  I agree that it's still very early and he'll get his chances, but this isn't the same situation that other big signings are dealing with.  There are 4 new starters in the preferred 11 for Chelsea this year and all of them are youth players..... yet their youth $70M signing can't even make the bench.  
I haven’t watched enough Chelsea to know, but the responsibilities of wingers are different in different tactical setups (Mourinho has a masterclass in one of his spots talking about arsenal earlier this year).  It may be entirely possible, Lampard views CP is an outside wing vs an inside wing.  

 
This comment would make sense if someone had said, "Pulisic is in the exact same place as Bernardo Silva and these other players were."  But that's not the point.  The point is that it is normal for young players who come to England to have a period of settling in. No one knows what the future holds for Pulisic, but there's really no reason for concern that he's not a regular starter in the first couple months of his first season in the Premier League.  Pulisic is battling for minutes with two experienced players - a Spaniard and a Brazilian - each of whom have a closet full of trophies. There's no reason to think this kid is going to put those guys on the bench in his first few weeks with the club.
You guys made the comparisons, not me.

 

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