Sabertooth
Footballguy
I guess so. But who the hell would want to go to Baltimore?
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Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Actually, I have said all I have to say on this. I have made my point that the looters are a bunch of dirtbags who deserve some form of intense punishment. I am just going to say a few prayers for the people who actually have to live in those sh*tty neighborhoods who will be looked at as looters just because they are black, for the cops who are looked at as racist pigs just because a few of them are terrible people, and also for the intellectually misguided who possess a stock instinct to reduce anyone who does not agree with their limited and nuanced perspective to a simple bigot.
In any case, I forgive you all. Not kidding about that. Sorry for reducing you to simple minded dipwads, I am sure you are better than that too.
Obama is still a twit, though.
In any case, I forgive you all. Not kidding about that. Sorry for reducing you to simple minded dipwads, I am sure you are better than that too.
Obama is still a twit, though.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I expect this thread will go well... o/u 50 pages
lod01
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I wonder if he's even licensed to practice law in MO.Why would they hire this guy?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Jordy Nelson would be uncomfortable in Baltimore. Because their QB has scary eyebrows and he's looks different.
This guy did such an incredibly ####ty job in the Trayvon Martin case.I wonder if he's even licensed to practice law in MO.Why would they hire this guy?
Speaking of that, when is Jojo going to join so that we can learn the victim was making PCP using skittles and tea?
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James Daulton
Footballguy
The recent North vs South thread had both sides recruiting us. It was really quite embarrassing.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
No.
For instance, I'm suggesting that naivete may place your hypothetical white liberal from Minnesota in a more dangerous situation because he doesn't know to avoid the bad sections that you mentioned or he's afraid that avoiding those bad sections may be construed as racist. In this hypothetical, I'm suggesting that the person who is more familiar with those bad sections (i.e. less naive about them) would have a greater tendency to avoid those bad sections. Many people today, however, would consider the white guy avoiding a bad section of a city as racist because that bad section, in the cities you mentioned, is disproportionately black.
So, no, under the expanding definition of what is considered racist naivete or ignorance is not necessarily the root cause.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
meatwad = jojoThis guy did such an incredibly ####ty job in the Trayvon Martin case.I wonder if he's even licensed to practice law in MO.Why would they hire this guy?
Speaking of that, when is Jojo going to join so that we can learn the victim was making PCP using skittles and tea?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Incredibly well-written and insightful column that will go over like a lead balloon around here. I didn't even bother to post it for that reason. Duck!
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I didn't imply they were "bad" sections, I was just talking about areas that might likely be mixed ethnically and class-wise in big cities.
One can walk a few blocks from a project or be downtown and see all kinds of faces and physical types around him and not think it a "bad" section. People freeze up or get scared when they think they are in a bad or dangerous situation and one trigger for racism is making that assumption based on who a person sees around him. (Personally I don't think that has anything to do with ideology or political POV, but really that's another thread).
If what they say about the cop here is true (if), it's not because the cop was scared of the victim. It was because the police force knows that it can get away with doing what it does. All kinds of corrupt practices can stem from this kind of thing by the way. And it relies not just on racism from the institution but from the city and populace itself which is aware of it and permits it to go on.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
Your hypothetical asked to consider walking in the area of "a project". Projects are almost always synonymous with higher crime sections.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok sorry, I did not mean to give the wrong impression. I feel ok walking a few blocks from at least couple projects around here. I go to church on the very edge of a project (really more low income public housing now). I live and work around downtown, it's very relatable to me so that was my point of reference.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I'm a firm believer that the military is exactly what we need to put a stop to the violence in South Chicago and such....Nothing else has ever worked.
What is great about it? Blacks have no place in America? What a ridiculous hyperbole. Then he goes on about the militarization of the police force which played zero role in this case. The cop appears to be a thug who unjustifiably murdered a black youth and should pay for it with life in prison. But this case is no where typical of what goes on in America.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I understand why you might think that's overdramatic. But on the other hand can you come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why we tolerate white people walking around Wal-Marts with assault weapons while a black man gets gunned down for picking up a toy gun that was actually for sale in the store? Do you honestly think that if two black guys walked into a Chipotle with assault weapons they would have been greeted the same way as the white guys pictured in that link? Those are the examples used to support the statement that you edited out of the cut and paste above.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
how about doing something to build a community and an environment where people don't keep growing up in the cycle of poverty creating a mindset that they've got nothing to lose when they commit crimes and do stupid ####?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yeah I saw that snippet as an example. And I think if you want a counter example I'd say try the ol' "Black Panthers stand menacingly outside voting booth in South Philly" meme.
http://kleinonline.wnd.com/files/2012/09/bp.jpg
Now take the Black Panthers walking into the suburban Ft. Worth voting booth or take the assault weapon carrying white 2nd Amendmenters and place them standing outside a south Philly urban restaurant and you'd probably get equal reactions.
I think we all know using a very pointed situation with great graphics used to generalize an extreme and unsupportable theme isn't reasonable.
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matttyl
Footballguy
The white guys pictured in the link where met with "anxiety and discomfort", and then with a new no-gun policy for the restaurant.When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.
So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
So your counterexample is that in some situations white people and black people would be perceived the same way? That's not much of a counterexample. The argument is that in many situations black people would be perceived as a threat, while white people doing the exact same thing would not. Saying that's not true in every situation is meaningless; nobody said that it was.
Also, that's the most strongly worded passage in the whole long article that is otherwise IMO very worthwhile and well done. You can dismiss the whole thing because you don't like a sentence if you want, but that seems like a waste to me.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.
When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.
So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tobias the perception is exactly what it's all about and more. - I live in a city where people are gunned down regularly, not one by one but in multiples, in public, even up to a score in some instances. By blacks. If black people were perceived as a "threat", if they were "feared", then there would be a very, real serious problem around here. Black people are not feared as described - "as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest." And America is not "not for black people."
It is as strong or ridiculous as hyperbole as that word can get, in the classic Greek rhetorical sense, as a device meant to purposefully lead people to false conclusions. It is a leap off a step, off a flight of stairs, off a hill, off a canyon up to the moon. It is the worst kind of demagoguery. Not speaking of you, I'm speaking of the writer.
matttyl
Footballguy
One was in Beavercreek, Ohio at a Wal-Mart. The other was in Texas, at a restaurant. These weren't at the same place with the same people at all. And I also wouldn't call the folks at the restaurant barricading themselves in the freezer and calling the cops for fear of being robbed "not being perceived as a threat" as you said two posts up.I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.
When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.
So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?
Edit to add - Also, I wouldn't call a BB gun a "toy". Personally, when I hear "toy gun" I think of a plastic multicolored or even a water gun type toy. A BB gun is a bit more serious. Also, witnesses in 911 calls claim they thought he was in the process of "loading the gun". That case, which I knew nothing about until about 10 minutes ago, isn't nearly as cut and dry as the above linked article would like for it to be.
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George Jefferson Airplane
Footballguy
This is how Somalia went bad.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The points about the militarization of our police forces is a good one and worrisome.
Yenrub
Footballguy
2nd amendment do's and don'ts from the Daily Show
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The problems highlighted by the article are people being gunned down by law enforcement. Black people being killed by other black people in large numbers is totally irrelevant to the point that the article attempts to make. Do you honestly think law enforcement doesn't have a problem with its perception of the black community? There's three examples of black people who by all accounts presented no danger to the police (Brown, John Crawford, Eric Garner) being killed at the hands of police in the last month. Three deaths of unarmed black men presenting no threat at the hands of law enforcement in a single month. Do you honestly think any of them would be dead if they were white? If you honestly think so, we'll have to just agree to (strongly) disagree. But assuming you don't, isn't that a problem worth highlighting?
I agree that there's a small amount of needless hyperbole in the sentence you lifted, but I don't think it defeats the premise or detracts much from the overall effectiveness of the article.
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These incidents happen far more often than comes to the news media's "attention" too. If not for the looting, a thread about this probably doesn't make a page.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I was contrasting the Wal-Mart example with the recent open carry demonstrations at Wal-Marts, not the Chipotle example.One was in Beavercreek, Ohio at a Wal-Mart. The other was in Texas, at a restaurant. These weren't at the same place with the same people at all. And I also wouldn't call the folks at the restaurant barricading themselves in the freezer and calling the cops for fear of being robbed "not being perceived as a threat" as you said two posts up.I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.
When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.
So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?
Edit to add - Also, I wouldn't call a BB gun a "toy". Personally, when I hear "toy gun" I think of a plastic multicolored or even a water gun type toy. A BB gun is a bit more serious. Also, witnesses in 911 calls claim they thought he was in the process of "loading the gun". That case, which I knew nothing about until about 10 minutes ago, isn't nearly as cut and dry as the above linked article would like for it to be.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I agree let's get past it, I raised it to Tim because frankly I think the statements as conclusions of the incidents raised were outrageous.
However I do indeed see the incidents raised. I can tell you here during Katrina we had a mentally handicapped black teen crossing a bridge with his family, he was shot, killed, he and his dad were walking across the bridge to his father's dentist office to get provisions.
Also during Katrina a black man seeking help was killed by police apparently for no one knows what reason, his body was burned in his car behind a levee. Again a coverup.
Tobias, let me tell you something: local politics is UGLY in some places. The death, the corruption. In a small town like that? What do people do about it? When do they stand up in their own home town? Do they run for office? Do they demand transparency? Look in your own backyard. Do something damnit. These are real issues, but people love to talk and write about them, but it is freaking scarey, mean, bad work confronting it. It is not always about race, it is often about corruption and money.
If what they say is true in Ferguson, they ought to go digging, at the bottom of that dark, nasty woodpile there is probably money. Racism just helps keep the lights out.
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Your points are well taken here. However, much of the recent militarization has been driven by federal agencies such as the DHS. Not local governments.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok I agree - but that's a different point entirely. This sht with police corruption and intimidation of the poor and minorities goes back to the age of the billy club.
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