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Otis

When do we go in and wipe out ISIS?

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The guys don't the beheading probably had friends or family killed with one of our other actions out there. At some point unless you just stop the violence it will just be a never ending cycle.

Queue "We're all in the same gang" video.

I don't necessarily support large-scale military activities directed at ISIS, but how come people never make this same argument about law enforcement? Lots of people have been put in jail or even executed for various crimes, and you never hear about their family members attacking the government as a result. So I'm not sure why these nutjobs should get a pass when they go around beheading journalists and aid workers.

I think the better example for what you've described here is if Canada got fed up with all the violence in Detroit and decided to go in bombing neighborhoods. I'm sure they'd get a lot of criminals in the process, but would also kill hundreds of innocent people and there would be no due process for those taken out. As a country we obviously wouldn't stand for it.

You are right though that the answer to this problem is ultimately governance, it's just not governance we can provide.

Edited by Arsenal of Doom

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The guys don't the beheading probably had friends or family killed with one of our other actions out there. At some point unless you just stop the violence it will just be a never ending cycle.

Queue "We're all in the same gang" video.

I don't necessarily support large-scale military activities directed at ISIS, but how come people never make this same argument about law enforcement? Lots of people have been put in jail or even executed for various crimes, and you never hear about their family members attacking the government as a result. So I'm not sure why these nutjobs should get a pass when they go around beheading journalists and aid workers.

well it's not a pass, it goes more to your point in the other post. Muslims and the culture in the Middle East have long viewed Christian western cultures as the enemy, see Crusades. Also, these people have so little there is nothing for them to lose. Add to that you have many of them having friends or family likely killed by us troops whether through friendly fire or not and there is a continued hatred that is bred from generation to generation.

Best way to end the hatred is to completely isolate from the region. Not that they are going to slowly become friends, but I will settle for not complete seething hatred.

Bottom line us being in a pissing match with Isis is pretty much pointless unless we have information concerning an attack on us soil and then we strategically strike with or without that country's permission. Much of that will be CIA operatives versus army boots on the ground potentially with drone or air support depending on location.

But if Isis wants to roll around Iraq or Syria and the Saudis don't care, then f them they can figure out what to do when it's on their doorstep.

If the Iraqi army won't even fight Isis to protect Iraq then it is absurd for us to. The only time regime change even comes close to working is a populace that wants to change. That sentiment is not overwhelmingly evident in the Middle East.

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A good way, IMO, to think about it is this: ISIS is the Viet Cong. The government in Baghdad is Diem's government in Saigon.

That's an extremely simplistic and ideologically flawed comparison, IMO.

I agree that it's simplistic. Not sure what you mean by ideologically flawed.

The Viet Cong may not have been quite as evil as ISIS- but then again they might have been. They were certainly murderous bastards who, along with the North Vietnamese, proved themselves capable of genocide on several occasions.

As far as Baghdad being compared to Saigon, the comparison is even stronger, IMO. The same weak, corrupt authoritarian pretending to be democratic government, unsupported by a good chunk of the population, basically attempting to blackmail us into helping them by warning that they will collapse if we don't.

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All you have to do is look at Turkey. A NATO member, supposedly an ally, a one-time secular democracy. That place is falling back into the stone age. Also a major conduit for money and men to feed ISIS. And it's refused to shut its borders, commit troops to fight ISIS or allow us to use air bases there to launch air attacks. If we can't get them to shut ISIS down there's no hope any place else in the region.

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Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

Hmmmm. It's almost as if Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. have something in common that differentiates them from other countries and that is uniquely hostile to democracy and enlightenment values in general. Whatever could it be?

Falafel?

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Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

Hmmmm. It's almost as if Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. have something in common that differentiates them from other countries and that is uniquely hostile to democracy and enlightenment values in general. Whatever could it be?

Falafel?

Falafel is the national food of Egypt, the Palestine, and Israel. Many Palestinians are hopping mad that the Israelis appropriated "their dish".

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Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

Hmmmm. It's almost as if Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. have something in common that differentiates them from other countries and that is uniquely hostile to democracy and enlightenment values in general. Whatever could it be?

Falafel?

Falafel is the national food of Egypt, the Palestine, and Israel. Many Palestinians are hopping mad that the Israelis appropriated "their dish".

I've seen the same thing said about hummus.

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Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

Hmmmm. It's almost as if Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. have something in common that differentiates them from other countries and that is uniquely hostile to democracy and enlightenment values in general. Whatever could it be?

Falafel?

Falafel is the national food of Egypt, the Palestine, and Israel. Many Palestinians are hopping mad that the Israelis appropriated "their dish".

I've seen the same thing said about hummus.

What you've seen on Curb You Enthusiasm is true. Jews often risk their personsal safety to eat at Muslim restaurants.

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If we didn't do it with 1.7 trillion spent and 130,000+ troops on the ground for six years when they were known as 'Al Qaeda in Iraq' what makes you think we can do it now?

Are we supposed to put 500,000 troops in Iraq/Syria and leave them there forever?

We pretty much wiped out Al-Qaeda Iraq as an operational enemy. Then a new war broke out and they were back up again doing what they do. They are like pirate radio, only with throwing people off cliffs and such.

:goodposting: The US (or UN) is never going to be able to make the Middle East stable or peaceful.

You can argue if that was ever part of the goal. When someone said the war was to liberate Iraq, was it to free the Iraqi people from the brutality of their local regime, or was it to open up the oil fields for foreign companies?

Rumaila Field (17.7B barrels)

17.7B barrels at $2.00/barrel - 38% BP (UK), 37% CNPC (China), 25% SOC (Iraq)

West Qurna Field (total 43B barrels reserve)

Phase 1: 8.7B barrels at $1.90/barrel - 60% ExxonMobile (US), 15% Shell (Anglo-Dutch), 25% SOC (Iraq)

Phase 2: 13B barrels at $1.15/barrel - 75% Lukoil (Russia), 25% SOC (Iraq)

Majnoon Field (total 38B barrels reserve)

13B barrels at $1.39/barrel - 45% Shell (Anglo-Dutch), 30% Petronas (Malaysia), 25% SOC (Iraq)

Halfaya Field (4.1B barrels)

4.1B barrels at $1.4/barrel - 37.5% CNPC (China), 18.75% Total (France), 18.75% Petronas (Malaysia), 25% SOC (Iraq)

Edited by Rohn Jambo
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Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

The Iraqi people have lived in the same place for nine thousand years and they went through a lot. Their land was invaded by every "superpower" all the way through history. When you face the mother of all destruction repeatedly, it is hard to be anything but pessimistic, if not traumatized.

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All you have to do is look at Turkey. A NATO member, supposedly an ally, a one-time secular democracy. That place is falling back into the stone age. Also a major conduit for money and men to feed ISIS. And it's refused to shut its borders, commit troops to fight ISIS or allow us to use air bases there to launch air attacks. If we can't get them to shut ISIS down there's no hope any place else in the region.

ISIS makes many millions of dollars per day. Whoever supports them is already in on it. Why do you think ISIS recruited so many Jihadists in the UK and the US in such a short time? The opportunity to become multi-millionaires when the economy is not great for those young people at home. Obama had to do something or the oil fields that we fought 8 years to get to drill will be taken back. Maybe he'll get some help because the oil was divided with other countries.

Edited by Rohn Jambo

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Personally I'm pulling for Bashar Asaad. Let him win the civil war and give the militant Sunni's someone to fight against and occupy their time. I long for the days of Saddam Hussein who kept a lid on all that.

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Personally I'm pulling for Bashar Asaad. Let him win the civil war and give the militant Sunni's someone to fight against and occupy their time. I long for the days of Saddam Hussein who kept a lid on all that.

What ever happened to that guy anyway?

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Riversco, on 14 Sept 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:snapback.png

Its a mystery to me why democracy takes root in some places but not others. We fought the Korean war, and democracy took root in South Korea. We lost the Vietnam War, and after it was over democracy and free market policies actually took root in Vietnam. The British Empire got democracy to take root in Hong Kong and India. But then Libya, Iran, and Iraq are a mess.

You need a populace with a similar identity for democracy to work.

India for example would not have become a successful democracy without splitting the country into India and Pakistan.

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A good way, IMO, to think about it is this: ISIS is the Viet Cong. The government in Baghdad is Diem's government in Saigon.

That's an extremely simplistic and ideologically flawed comparison, IMO.

I agree that it's simplistic. Not sure what you mean by ideologically flawed.

The Viet Cong may not have been quite as evil as ISIS- but then again they might have been. They were certainly murderous bastards who, along with the North Vietnamese, proved themselves capable of genocide on several occasions.

As far as Baghdad being compared to Saigon, the comparison is even stronger, IMO. The same weak, corrupt authoritarian pretending to be democratic government, unsupported by a good chunk of the population, basically attempting to blackmail us into helping them by warning that they will collapse if we don't.

:goodposting:

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Bump.

for?

Bump.

for?

I just felt like there's been some interesting developments that I'm too lazy to post and it's been awhile since this thread was bumped. :shrug:

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This thread has died down a bit because so many people here who wanted action against ISIS are overseas now fighting ISIS.

ISIS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OTIS

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key. Edited by boots11234

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.

Back in the good ol' days, when you beat a country in a war, you got to keep it. We should go back to doing that.

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.

At what cost?

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.

"But how are we going to pay for this? The deficit's out of control."

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.

"But how are we going to pay for this? The deficit's out of control."

We've already built nukes. They're just sitting there. Costs nothing to set a few off.

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.
your argument is flawed because Vietnam and Iraq went to hell long before we left, and couldn't have been fixed no matter how long we stayed.

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.
your argument is flawed because Vietnam and Iraq went to hell long before we left, and couldn't have been fixed no matter how long we stayed.

NONE of these "wars" can be "fixed"....that's the rub. When you have X amount of groups all vying for "their way", it will never be fixed. It can only be managed.

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The link below contains a quote to me that shows the main crux of the problem IMO....

Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene, al-Issawi said.

If the people aren't willing to fight ISIS themselves, we can never fully be rid of them. We could stay there 100 years, and on the first day of the 101st year they would come back. As long as the population in large either supports or tolerates ISIS, or whatever militant group comes next, we can't be rid of them.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html

####. What a bunch of...

This sounds so much like our buddies, the South Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War.

The fact is every nation we've stayed in after invasion is successful. Japan. Germany. South Korea . When we leave it goes to hell. Vietnam, Iraq. Long term commitment is the key.
your argument is flawed because Vietnam and Iraq went to hell long before we left, and couldn't have been fixed no matter how long we stayed.

NONE of these "wars" can be "fixed"....that's the rub. When you have X amount of groups all vying for "their way", it will never be fixed. It can only be managed.

It's definitely never ending over there.

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

Edited by Bucky86

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

I think they pretty much kill everyone who doesn't support them.

What I don't get is how they are able to roll tanks and artillery up to the city edge and start shelling. This is where air support should just come bomb the hell out of them. We should have planes, or at least drones, circling above the battlefields. See a tank? Blow it up real good.

Edited by MikeIke

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

I think they pretty much kill everyone who doesn't support them.

What I don't get is how they are able to roll tanks and artillery up to the city edge and start shelling. This is where air support should just come bomb the hell out of them. We should have planes, or at least drones, circling above the battlefields. See a tank? Blow it up real good.

They definitely kill anyone that looks threatening to them. Seems the old people get to stick around. The men are killed, the women and young are sold off. They seriously need wiped off the planet ASAP. No more catch and release programs, simply kill as them all as they have no value on this planet.

Edited by lod01

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

I think they pretty much kill everyone who doesn't support them.

What I don't get is how they are able to roll tanks and artillery up to the city edge and start shelling. This is where air support should just come bomb the hell out of them. We should have planes, or at least drones, circling above the battlefields. See a tank? Blow it up real good.

Right, it's fear.

It's classic extremist methodology. A dedicated band of Bolsheviks took over all of Russia for instance.

I will add that the opposition, even with the Sunni, is extremely divided.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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Wipe out Isis? You mean the same way we wiped out Al Qaeda?? No terrorist group will ever be wiped out. They are spread out all over the world, including the US.

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Wipe out Isis? You mean the same way we wiped out Al Qaeda?? No terrorist group will ever be wiped out. They are spread out all over the world, including the US.

Of course, that's true. But it would certainly help if we blew up all their tanks, rocket launchers, vehicles, etc that are surrounding the cities they're attacking. It just seems to me that they would be sitting ducks for our planes so why aren't we doing it? We can't kill them all from the air but we could certainly degrade their ability to wage war.

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Wipe out Isis? You mean the same way we wiped out Al Qaeda?? No terrorist group will ever be wiped out. They are spread out all over the world, including the US.

Of course, that's true. But it would certainly help if we blew up all their tanks, rocket launchers, vehicles, etc that are surrounding the cities they're attacking. It just seems to me that they would be sitting ducks for our planes so why aren't we doing it? We can't kill them all from the air but we could certainly degrade their ability to wage war.

I would think part of the let's just blow em up problem is you have innocent citizens mixed in. Same with the Israel/Gaza war which is still raging, even though there is no more news on it since it's the same ole back and forth now and Isis and Ebola have taken over the headlines.

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Wipe out Isis? You mean the same way we wiped out Al Qaeda?? No terrorist group will ever be wiped out. They are spread out all over the world, including the US.

Of course, that's true. But it would certainly help if we blew up all their tanks, rocket launchers, vehicles, etc that are surrounding the cities they're attacking. It just seems to me that they would be sitting ducks for our planes so why aren't we doing it? We can't kill them all from the air but we could certainly degrade their ability to wage war.

You have got to cut off the head. That's the dude holed up in Syria I believe. Then the worker rats wander off because they can't think for themselves and have no one to tell them how to think.

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

I think they pretty much kill everyone who doesn't support them.

What I don't get is how they are able to roll tanks and artillery up to the city edge and start shelling. This is where air support should just come bomb the hell out of them. We should have planes, or at least drones, circling above the battlefields. See a tank? Blow it up real good.

I don't quite get this either. It seems our air attacks are from high above, and we're not confident of dropping bombs without info on the ground that helps us to hit the right targets. I read that when the forces got close to the Baghdad airport, we unleashed Apache helicopters. They apparently took care of matters quite nicely ...but that carries more risk of them being shot down. But they probably do what we're used to seeing in so many action movies - just strafe all the bad guy positions and chew the hell out of 'em - bullets, not bombs. I suspect the problem is that ISIS keeps rolling in fresh 'troops' like a relentless line of ants.

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What I don't get is how ISIS is able to take these towns and then continue controlling them? I mean look at us during Iraq. We'd take a town and then unless we left a heavy military presence there, it would be immediately lost once we withdrew. Let's say Kobani falls...how does ISIS have enough troops and support to maintain control of this town?

Because many of the people in the Sunni areas prefer ISIS to the Iraqi army.

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Wipe out Isis? You mean the same way we wiped out Al Qaeda?? No terrorist group will ever be wiped out. They are spread out all over the world, including the US.

Of course, that's true. But it would certainly help if we blew up all their tanks, rocket launchers, vehicles, etc that are surrounding the cities they're attacking. It just seems to me that they would be sitting ducks for our planes so why aren't we doing it? We can't kill them all from the air but we could certainly degrade their ability to wage war.

When we degrade one group's ability to wage war, that increases the ability of opposing groups to wage war. Then your scenario has to be repeated again when those groups go "too far" to suit those sucking up the news articles on the latest "menace to world peace and national security". Over and over.

It's like Lucy setting up the football for Charlie Brown for the 50th time. He's sure kicking it will work this time.

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