Concept Coop
Footballguy
Can teams put an original round tender on a player they didn’t draft and who cleared waivers? I didn’t think they could.
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RB Nick Chubb, CLE (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter EBF
- Start date
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No, the next step down is "original round" tender. A little cheaper, and if they don't match they get a pick of the same round the player was originally drafted in - so a 3rd for Hunt. It can be zero compensation for an undrafted guy like Tyrrell Williams was, but it won't be for Hunt.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Scout.com has Chubb pegged for 1127 yards, 215 carries, 9 TD 15 rec 111 yards, 1.8 rec TD for 2019. Espn predicts a massive leap in stats for Chubb in 2019. Fanduel has him as a RB 10.
even CBS thinks he's a stud RB in 2019. every single online publication ( fantasy) has him as RB #10-11. FantasyPros.com have him listed as a RB1, Matthew Berry says he's a fringe RB1.
Part of the late season slowdown in 2018 can be written off to the 'rookie wall'.
We're all considering Hunt's impact but we're not mentioning OBJs impact on the offense which could be HUGE ( I'm no OBJ fan but he'll make defenses think pass before they try to stop the run).
what am I missing here, it's a no-brainer what he'll bring to the table in weeks 1-8 make him worthy of a high draft pick.
even CBS thinks he's a stud RB in 2019. every single online publication ( fantasy) has him as RB #10-11. FantasyPros.com have him listed as a RB1, Matthew Berry says he's a fringe RB1.
Part of the late season slowdown in 2018 can be written off to the 'rookie wall'.
We're all considering Hunt's impact but we're not mentioning OBJs impact on the offense which could be HUGE ( I'm no OBJ fan but he'll make defenses think pass before they try to stop the run).
what am I missing here, it's a no-brainer what he'll bring to the table in weeks 1-8 make him worthy of a high draft pick.
Weird projection from Scout. That’s only 13.4 carries per game. At 5.2 a pop. And less than 1 catch a game. Are they projecting he’ll miss some games?
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
2017 Chiefs
Alex Smith: 341-505, 4042yds, 26 TD
Team offense: 6000 yards
Conclusion: Near perfect situation
2018 Browns
Baker Mayfield: 310-486, 3725yds, 27 TD
Team offense: 5900 yards
Conclusion: Far from ideal situation!!
Just kind of poking fun here but the 2018 Browns were better than you're giving them credit for.
Regardless, I think I fall kind of in between on this, more in the same territory as ZWK. I believe that both Chubb and Hunt are elite players, and have been very high on both since they each came into the league.
Chubb obviously has the advantage of explosiveness and as a size/speed freak. Pre-injury he was Saquon without the receiving chops and he looks basically back to pre-injury form now.
Hunt to me has elite vision and is a better receiver than Chubb. His best asset is one that Chubb also excels at, his (and Chubb's) ability to run through arm tackles without losing speed. Those that have heard my RB rants on here before will know that is probably my favorite asset in RBs so it is no surprise that these are two guys I am very high on as players. I did put my money where my mouth is and own lots of shares of these guys, including a relatively high stakes FFPC startup going on now where I drafted both.
I do agree that Hunt's signing is not indicative of any worry about Chubb or any plans to balance Chubb's workload. He was simply too good of a deal to pass up on. As much as I like Hunt I expect Chubb to mostly own this backfield so long as he stays healthy, but I am still a buyer on Hunt because I believe he will be a very valuable asset wherever he ends up next, and obviously it doesn't hurt that he's the best handcuff in the league in the meantime.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Absurd comparison
- 10 win division champ v 7 win also ran (hey look, we're competitive, who knew?)
- +76 v -33 point differential - think those game scripts /game flow might have been a touch difference
- 11 turnovers v 27 turnovers
- et al
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
if Chubb is leading the league in yards and TD's after week 8 do you really think they will start limiting his touches for Hunt?
I don't think Chubb will be in that position, but if he is they won't pull back and start limiting him.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think they would pull back a bit to keep him fresh for the playoffs if they are in e race. I am not saying Hunt takes over, but getting Hunt up to speed and keeping Chubb fresh for the run would be a wise move.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Hunt isn't even close to as talented as Chubb. Hunt is basically average, speaking in terms of athletic metrics. Chubb is elite. Both have really good contact balance.
Damien Williams is showing us that Hunt was more a product of the system than his own abilities.
Hunt is a good pass catcher and probably better at that than Chubb, but Chubb is so elite athletically that the Browns should do all they can to prioritize feeding Chubb as many touches as he can handle. He's just better... A lot better.
I think people are conflating Hunt's fantasy production with his talent level a bit in this thread.
Damien Williams is showing us that Hunt was more a product of the system than his own abilities.
Hunt is a good pass catcher and probably better at that than Chubb, but Chubb is so elite athletically that the Browns should do all they can to prioritize feeding Chubb as many touches as he can handle. He's just better... A lot better.
I think people are conflating Hunt's fantasy production with his talent level a bit in this thread.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Saying Hunt is going to get some carries once he is back is not a knock on Chubb, it is just smart football management. Shave some of Chubbs workload to keep him at his best all season (and hopefully postseason for Brown fans). Also gets Hunt up to football speed so he can be a full contributor if Chubb were to miss time. And with Hunts pass catching skills it provides more for defenses to plan for.
finfansteve
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Finally got my first dynasty share of him this morning. So stoked. I wasn't really targeting a trade for him but it materialized anyway. I was an idiot for talking myself out of drafting him last year in a couple rookie drafts and really regretted it.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Chubb is a steal at his current ADP...and don't spend a high draft pick on handcuffing him with Hunt...you won't need it or you'll be able to get Hunt off of waivers after 4 or 5 weeks when that owner needs the roster space.
Targeting Chubb in all formats at his current ADP and won't be surprised if he leads all RBs in scoring.
Targeting Chubb in all formats at his current ADP and won't be surprised if he leads all RBs in scoring.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hunt is scheduled to come back later in the season right about FF playoff time.
Kareem will have fresh legs, has receiving and top-end running back skills.
--------------------------------------------
Ian Hartitz @Ihartitz
RBs with at least 125 forced missed tackles over the last three seasons:
- Ezekiel Elliott (125)
- Kareem Hunt (130)
- LeSean McCoy (132)
- Todd Gurley (140)
- Melvin Gordon (163)
-------------------------------------------
No knock on Chubb to see that Kareem Hunt is going to get fed when he comes back from suspension.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The tweet was listed in reverse order without numbers. Just think of it as backward countdown from least to most but Hunt still ranks near the top of missed tackles in the league which is the point.
Interesting since Hunt hasn’t even been in the league 3 years and all of the guys on that list have missed time over the last 3 years.
The 2 of them can co-exist once hunt comes back. I think it will be chubb’s backfield but more like a 60/40 split with Hunt. Maybe hunt gets more of the receiving work and Chubb gets more of the GL work. Chubb might be better in standard and hunt better in PPR.
if that CLE offense is anywhere near the hype this season, there will be opportunity for the 2 of them to split 20+ Rb tds, 80 receptions and 2500+ total yards.
I can see Chubb with 1700 total yards, 30 receptions, 15 tds and hunt with 800 total yards, 50 receptions, and 5-8 tds once he gets back.
if that CLE offense is anywhere near the hype this season, there will be opportunity for the 2 of them to split 20+ Rb tds, 80 receptions and 2500+ total yards.
I can see Chubb with 1700 total yards, 30 receptions, 15 tds and hunt with 800 total yards, 50 receptions, and 5-8 tds once he gets back.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Browns actually ranked dead-center in terms of pass average per quarter last year.
Pic - Bar Chart - NFL play-calling by quarter during the 2018 regular season
Mike ClayVerified account @MikeClayNFL May 31
NFL play-calling by quarter during the 2018 regular season. "Expected P%" is based on the score/time remaining. Eg. The Chiefs were "expected" to run a lot in 4th quarter because they were ahead often (opposite for Cardinals). This better indicates pass/run heavy offenses.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ideal would mean if they fell behind that logic would show up statistically that the Browns would be passing more but the play calling was right at the NFL average, not above or below.
No one really knows why Duke wasn't used last year. It really did not make sense. He played very-well whenever he got a chance and was solid in the passing game especially pass-pro.
Are you honestly trying to argue that Chubb's situation in 2018 was really as good as Hunt's in 2017?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Wow. Have you ever had a reasonable discussion on these boards or ... Wow. Whatever you say. Just done............. Whew
I'm just trying to figure out what you're trying to get at. I'm not interested in getting on some random tangential topic.
I thought people were discussing 2017 Hunt vs. 2018 Chubb, so I'm asking for clarification for what you're angling for with this.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well one of those wins for KC was week 17 backups vs backups where Hunt didn't even play. And two of those non-wins for Cleveland were the Tyrod Taylor led much worse Cleveland team where Chubb barely played.BobbyLayne said:
The real Chiefs team won 9 out of 15 games and the Baker led Browns won 7 out of 14, both teams with basically identical offensive stats (KC averaged about 1 more PPG and they averaged the same offensive yardage over those games).
I'm certainly not saying that the Cleveland situation was the same, I'm just saying it is being underrated here and we're a long ways off from "perfect situation vs. horrible situation" as is being advertised here.
Thanks for clarifying. Some people flip out when asked for clarification.
All I ever said was one was "ideal" and the other was "far from ideal." I never intended to imply the 2018 Browns were the 2017 or 2016 Browns. Those situations were truly horrible. I still think playing, with also zero competition for snaps, for a playoff caliber team with Andy Reid at the helm is much better than splitting time with Hyde/Duke on a losing team with Hue Jackson + an interim coach.
PFF projects the Baltimore Ravens to lead the NFL in rushing with 2150 total rushing yards. Not sure how Baker can go full Tommy Maddox and they still run for 2500 yards
the hype is real. ADPs pricing in upside. I’m fading the Browns. Whether Hunt dilutes Chubb into the home stretch/playoffs or OBJ pouts at the ball being spread around too much
edit I did catch ‘total yards’... fair enough on that possibility
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Video clip -  Baker to Chubb
Dan LabbeVerified account @dan_labbe
Baker to Chubb. He’s been very involved in the passing game all camp.
8:11 AM - 2 Aug 2019
Dan LabbeVerified account @dan_labbe
Baker to Chubb. He’s been very involved in the passing game all camp.
8:11 AM - 2 Aug 2019
kittenmittens
Footballguy
You'd have to be stupid not to use at least the threat of Chubb getting the ball in space as a component of your passing arsenal.
I don't think Monken and Kitchens are going to miss that opportunity.
I don't think Monken and Kitchens are going to miss that opportunity.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Dontrell Hilliard is the handcuff now?
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Not bashing, but why take Chubb ahead of Freeman, Fournette, Henry and Ingram? Looking for help to "talk me into" Chubb over less sexy picks which seem either safer or more favorable situations...
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
I guess I'm on the other end where I don't see how those guys listed seem more favorable or safer.SeniorVBDStudent said:
I think Chubb is relatively safe and favorable. Going to be the guy, I don't think Hunt comes in and take a significant chunk of his touches away, he's in what should be a high octane offense.
This is what I love about fantasy football! Differing opinions.
Freeman- more injury riskSeniorVBDStudent said:
Fournette- more injury risk, far worse offense
Henry- worse offense, less passing game usage
Ingram- worse offense, possible committee including a running qb, wasn’t all that effective last year, PED suspension.
Chubb is a young stud looking to be back to his pre injury form when he was headed to a top 10 (or better selection) in an offense most people project to be top 10. He feasted once he got the job last year and now the offense added Odell and gets another year of experience for their young stud qb. He won’t have anyone challenging him for PT until week 10.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Because those other names are all going in the 3rd. 4th for Ingram. So you don't have to choose between them. You can get Chubb *and* one of those. Maybe two if you get Ingram.SeniorVBDStudent said:
Devil_Dog
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
I can't believe the Browns look this good....it's kind of weird.
Lots of offensive weapons, and as much as I've wanted to dismiss Baker, I think hes just the guy to lead this team.....he's got the right amount of swagger and leadership ability.....Chubb is going to run wild now that OBJ is in town.
Lots of offensive weapons, and as much as I've wanted to dismiss Baker, I think hes just the guy to lead this team.....he's got the right amount of swagger and leadership ability.....Chubb is going to run wild now that OBJ is in town.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
So, for the sake of argument, we are saying that the Cleveland Browns have a better offense than the Atlanta Falcons?
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Maybe, maybe not but taking Chubb before Freeman doesn't mean someone likes the Browns offense better than the Falcons. Even if you think Freeman outscores Chubb you still take Chubb first (if you want him) because he is going in the 2nd. Freeman in the 3rd and even early 4th.
If you take Chubb the question is why him over guys like Evans, Cook, and whoever else slides to the mid 2nd.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
But more to the point I would say they have very comparable offenses in terms of potency. Better? Eh? Who knows. Cleveland's arrow is pointing up. Atlanta is solid but maybe plateaued? Wouldn't be surprised either way as to who finishes higher.
