Ran a 10k - Official Thread

[ChiefD 17,281]

On 3/21/2019 at 7:10 AM, gruecd said:

MY POOP IS RED!!!

This is why I really can't do the beet juice. If I see red in there I'm pumping meds and making plans to see my GI doc. 

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

59 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

 

Made me aware that I will have to make sure I'm not trying to run some crazy pace to start if I want to make sure I hit my goals. 

Easiest way to make sure of that is to stick with a pace group to start.

[JAA 1,828]

2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

I've had countless runs where I'm thinking about that kind of stuff.  I'm struggling to keep a pace with a 7 in front of it and these guys are out for a stroll.  Truth be told, those thoughts occupy a lot of my runs (for good and bad).  I was just looking at my fartlek run yesterday and seeing my "bursts of incredible speed" that I can hold for maybe 30 seconds don't touch what they've run a 5 miler race.

But, someone wrote to me here early on:  "There's always someone faster and there's always someone slower".

And it's true.  A guy on my Strava that is a running coach here has run a HM faster than these guys can run a 5K.  And he's not even the fastest runner in this city.  At the same time, there are plenty of runners that can't hit our "easy" paces. 

But most importantly -- none of that matters.  Because that person that can barely hit a 10 or 11 min mile is at least out there running.  As are you and all of us.  Challenge yourself but there's no benefit to comparing yourself to others unless you're trying to improve by doing the things they do.  And THAT's the motivation these guys on here give. 

You know how I know they don't give a #### how slow I am?  Because there's a few of them traveling here to race WITH me despite knowing I don't give them any chance of winning anything.  And that's why I love this thread and this group. 

I know I'll never run at the paces these guys here run.  But I'll keep trying and put the work in as if I can. 

blah blah blah, what color is your poop?

[BassNBrew 9,692]

2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

From my year end report:

A)  Run every race as a negative split.  Reading @SteelCurtain's thoughts above just emphasized this even more.  Most of you, of course having done this for a while, are disciplined and do this the right way.  I need to get on board.  Don't get me wrong, I've had intentions of doing so but I now see how easy it is to go out the window.  And not just for me, apparently.  I think it's crazy that less than 15% of racers run negative splits when it's known to be a superior approach.  I'm going to join that 15% in 2019

How is it a known superior approach?

[The Iguana 2,914]

8 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

How is it a known superior approach?

[bushdocda 3,274]

4 hours ago, The Iguana said:

Made me aware that I will have to make sure I'm not trying to run some crazy pace to start if I want to make sure I hit my goals. 

Race strategy = neurostim and beet juice (skip the entire can of coke), PR. 

[tri-man 47 8,116]

6 hours ago, gianmarco said:

\Because there's a few of them traveling here to race WITH me despite knowing I don't give them any chance of winning anything.  

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Back up the truck.  What you say?     

[Zasada 3,073]

5 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

How is it a known superior approach?

Most/all elite PRs are set with a negative split.  I can't find the article but it was pretty emphatic.

[Zasada 3,073]

8 hours ago, The Iguana said:

"What problem?", you ask? Well, thanks for asking... That problem is making sure I don't go out too fast and that I follow the plan for the race that I have set out on. 

All three of my races I went out faster than plan.  It has been much harder to control than I ever imagined.

 

7 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Easiest way to make sure of that is to stick with a pace group to start.

First step to overcoming a problem is admitting you have one.

"Hi my name's Zasada, and I can't control my pace at the start of races".

Thus I'm running with a 4:00 pace group in my next marathon.  

[Zasada 3,073]

Rest day today from my Hanson's plan.  Great weather forecast (16C/60F) so I took the day off work and got out early to Prairie Mountain with some friends.  902m (2,959ft) in elevation and even though we took the long way back I loved every minute of it.  No runnning (one of my friend's knees don't permit that) but that's OK on a rest day!

With the warm temps and resultant thaw I could smell the forest for the first time this season.

Got a great sunrise, and a fantastic (almost full) moon.  So awesome.

 

 

[-OZ- 7,629]

Have we mentioned how much we love daylight savings time? Still light out at 7 is awesome. 

It's March but I seems weird that it's literally freezing in the morning (30°, can't complain too much) but in the 60s in the afternoon. I'll ride in the 50s no problem, 40s is rather cold. So today I started a bit later than I'd like.

Towards the end of the ride a co worker called, apparently we had a conference with a judge today. Pretty sure we discussed her covering it as I'm on leave but there I was on the side of the road, straddling my bike talking to a judge about a complicated case (procedurally complicated, not so much on the merits), somewhat out of breath from doing intervals with a cross wind (note, riding in a stiff cross wind kinda sucks).  Of course the wind made the judge a little aggravated, had to tell me to mute my phone.

[JShare87 3,879]

Still taking it easy. Leg is feeling really good, but I still plan to give it a few more days. I had my brother film me on the treadmill this morning so I can see if there is an issue with my form that is putting more stress on a certain area. I’ll post the YouTube link here. I know everyone’s form is different, and I don’t plan to change completely. But, if anyone has some advice or comments, I would really appreciate it. Take care, fellas. https://youtu.be/tmibYcsPIBk

 

1st pace is around 9:00

2nd is 7:35

3rd is like 6:20

 

Also, the shoes have basically no drop (3mm). I usually run in VaporFly 4%(10-12mm), but I read that a higher drop has more of an impact on the issue I’m having.

Edited March 23, 2019 by JShare87

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

@JShare87  Looks fine to me.  Glad you're feeling better.

[gianmarco 25,583]

41 minutes ago, JShare87 said:

Still taking it easy. Leg is feeling really good, but I still plan to give it a few more days. I had my brother film me on the treadmill this morning so I can see if there is an issue with my form that is putting more stress on a certain area. I’ll post the YouTube link here. I know everyone’s form is different, and I don’t plan to change completely. But, if anyone has some advice or comments, I would really appreciate it. Take care, fellas. https://youtu.be/tmibYcsPIBk

 

1st pace is around 9:00

2nd is 7:35

3rd is like 6:20

 

Also, the shoes have basically no drop (3mm). I usually run in VaporFly 4%(10-12mm), but I read that a higher drop has more of an impact on the issue I’m having.

I certainly can't comment on form but I think you need to brush your teeth!

But seriously, looks pretty good and effortless to me. Glad to hear you're feeling better.

[gianmarco 25,583]

Decided to knock out my short tempo run by running to my girl's gymnastics class. Not an ideal route in hindsight for it because of all the hills, but that run felt good. First time in a long time I can remember getting down to a 7:30ish pace and not feel like I was working really hard. Last week's tempo run was a challenge for me. Today's was just a good workout but I felt like I could definitely hold that longer and felt refreshed when done.

14 days in a row, last 3 weeks of 22, 27, and will be 31 after my 7 mile run tomorrow. Finally with some consistency and it's starting to show. Imagine that....

[tri-man 47 8,116]

2 hours ago, JShare87 said:

Still taking it easy. Leg is feeling really good, but I still plan to give it a few more days. I had my brother film me on the treadmill this morning so I can see if there is an issue with my form that is putting more stress on a certain area. I’ll post the YouTube link here. I know everyone’s form is different, and I don’t plan to change completely. But, if anyone has some advice or comments, I would really appreciate it. Take care, fellas. https://youtu.be/tmibYcsPIBk

 

Two things to consider:  The first is minor, as you seem to be clenching your fists instead of letting the fingers 'float.'  The second thing I see is that you're heel striking and not making much use of your upper legs.  Part of that, then, is that you're quite erect and not getting a slight forward lean.  Stuff to think about!

[gianmarco 25,583]

9 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Part of that, then, is that you're quite erect

[gianmarco 25,583]

11 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Two things to consider:  The first is minor, as you seem to be clenching your fists instead of letting the fingers 'float.'  The second thing I see is that you're heel striking and not making much use of your upper legs.  Part of that, then, is that you're quite erect and not getting a slight forward lean.  Stuff to think about!

But yeah, looking at this, with more forward lean, this strike would be underneath him more and not cause as much jarring/braking with each step?

[JShare87 3,879]

2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

But yeah, looking at this, with more forward lean, this strike would be underneath him more and not cause as much jarring/braking with each step?

 

2 hours ago, tri-man 47 said:

Two things to consider:  The first is minor, as you seem to be clenching your fists instead of letting the fingers 'float.'  The second thing I see is that you're heel striking and not making much use of your upper legs.  Part of that, then, is that you're quite erect and not getting a slight forward lean.  Stuff to think about!

Thanks!

[ChiefD 17,281]

4 hours ago, JShare87 said:

Still taking it easy. Leg is feeling really good, but I still plan to give it a few more days. I had my brother film me on the treadmill this morning so I can see if there is an issue with my form that is putting more stress on a certain area. I’ll post the YouTube link here. I know everyone’s form is different, and I don’t plan to change completely. But, if anyone has some advice or comments, I would really appreciate it. Take care, fellas. https://youtu.be/tmibYcsPIBk

 

1st pace is around 9:00

2nd is 7:35

3rd is like 6:20

 

Also, the shoes have basically no drop (3mm). I usually run in VaporFly 4%(10-12mm), but I read that a higher drop has more of an impact on the issue I’m having.

You should post that on treadmillrunnersonly.com. Flowing hair, a little shake in your shimmy - booyah!

[JShare87 3,879]

8 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

You should post that on treadmillrunnersonly.com. Flowing hair, a little shake in your shimmy - booyah!

Screen name suggestion?

BMF69

[JShare87 3,879]

2 hours ago, tri-man 47 said:

Two things to consider:  The first is minor, as you seem to be clenching your fists instead of letting the fingers 'float.'  The second thing I see is that you're heel striking and not making much use of your upper legs.  Part of that, then, is that you're quite erect and not getting a slight forward lean.  Stuff to think about!

Maybe this is why I’m having lower leg issues. For the record, the Sciatica pain is on the right side. It feels and somewhat looks like there’s a bit of a hitch when that foot hits the ground. Almost feels like it gets stuck on the ground a bit longer than the left foot. 

[The Iguana 2,914]

I might be developing a problem... I went on a nice peaceful 7 mile run this morning with my dog and then took the dog and my youngest daughter downtown and walked about 5 or 6 miles along the canal. Sitting here watching a little basketball, I find myself wanting to go out and run a few more miles for no reason. This is going to be a long week of work waiting for next Saturday. 

[MAC_32 11,305]

5 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

I might be developing a problem... I went on a nice peaceful 7 mile run this morning with my dog and then took the dog and my youngest daughter downtown and walked about 5 or 6 miles along the canal. Sitting here watching a little basketball, I find myself wanting to go out and run a few more miles for no reason. This is going to be a long week of work waiting for next Saturday. 

It's called taper madness and it's perfectly normal. 

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

One week out and I feeling decent about things.

I ran my last run of any difficulty today.  12 with 6 at marathon pace.  I had decent energy and ran the first 6 a little faster than normal in the low 7s.  For the last 6, I averaged in the low 6:30s.  My HR was a few beats higher than I’d like and I sensed that pace is a little too fast.  It confirmed to me I should race averaging high 6:30s not low 6:30s.  I’m also pledging not to freak out if some miles exceed 6:40.

Hopefully a short “long” run this week will make a difference with nagging injuries.  After almost every long run over the last few months my groin and lower abs have been a mess.  It usually takes half the week before I’m feeling well again.  After today’s run it’s hardly noticeable.  I’m sure I’ll feel it near the end of the marathon but it’s more an “afterwards” and “pre-warmed up” injury than a “during” one.

Beet Shots finally arrived this afternoon.  I’ve just been drinking juice instead.  I wanted to do two shots this morning to see how my stomach handled them.  I guess I’ll have to test them in a few days.  My whole digestive system hasn’t been as smooth as it should be over the last few weeks so I might skip taking them regardless. 

[mr. furley 11,989]

On 3/22/2019 at 9:18 AM, The Iguana said:

 That problem is making sure I don't go out too fast and that I follow the plan for the race that I have set out on. 

 

this was me this morning. set out at what felt like a great pace. cruising along around the mile 4 (of 9.3) point and hear a woman i just passed say to her friend "oh, we're doing great... we're around 9:20"

that's too fast for me over that distance. thought "well, i feel good let's see how long i can go" and forgot about the massive hills yet to come. 

made it to the end and faster than last year but holy #### did i feel just terrible at the end. thought about quitting a few times but put it on auto-pilot and just slogged to the finish. still feel ####ty.

 

[tri-man 47 8,116]

6 hours ago, gianmarco said:

But yeah, looking at this, with more forward lean, this strike would be underneath him more and not cause as much jarring/braking with each step?

True, but the back-of-the-foot landing contributes to the, um, erection?

Remind me, @JShare87, do you do hill work?  A wonderful thing about hills (just a modest slope is fine) is that it tends to force a forefoot landing and a natural lean.  That's a good way to develop the feel for that stride. 

[gianmarco 25,583]

6 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

True, but the back-of-the-foot landing contributes to the, um, erection?

Remind me, @JShare87, do you do hill work?  A wonderful thing about hills (just a modest slope is fine) is that it tends to force a forefoot landing and a natural lean.  That's a good way to develop the feel for that stride. 

Lol@hills in Florida.

[tri-man 47 8,116]

51 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Lol@hills in Florida.

 We don't have hills in Chicago, either.  But today, for example, I ran a couple miles to the expressway and did 18 repeats on a 130 yard incline.  I can also catch a larger/longer local road going high over a number of train tracks.  I also will use sometimes of the stairs in a nearby parking garage.  We make do!

Edited March 24, 2019 by tri-man 47

[tri-man 47 8,116]

5 hours ago, JShare87 said:

Maybe this is why I’m having lower leg issues. For the record, the Sciatica pain is on the right side. It feels and somewhat looks like there’s a bit of a hitch when that foot hits the ground. Almost feels like it gets stuck on the ground a bit longer than the left foot. 

Yeah, the left leg/foot rotation is different than the right, which forces a reaction from the other foot's landing.  As the left leg comes back, the toes swing inward - even blocking the view of the right calf/foot.  Then as the leg/foot start to move forward, the toes swing more to the middle or outside.  Along with this, the legs stay very tight together, almost like you're running along a line on the road.  The result seems to be that your right foot, then, lands on the outside of the foot.  The "hitch" could be your body's alignment recovering from the imbalance being created.  

It also seems that your hip is dropping as the leg moves back (note how your black shorts dip to each side).  I don't think your quads are active enough to keep you steady and to help drive you forward.  As you can see at the end of the clip, the upside down "V" formed by the angle of your legs isn't creating much of a gap.

This stride has a good look to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGStU5bcao 

[SFBayDuck 6,905]

1 hour ago, tri-man 47 said:

 We don't have hills in Chicago, either.  But today, for example, I ran a couple miles to the expressway and did 18 repeats on a 130 yard incline.  I can also catch a larger/longer local road going high over a number of train tracks.  I also will use sometimes of the stairs in a nearby parking garage.  We make do!

😍

[JShare87 3,879]

47 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Yeah, the left leg/foot rotation is different than the right, which forces a reaction from the other foot's landing.  As the left leg comes back, the toes swing inward - even blocking the view of the right calf/foot.  Then as the leg/foot start to move forward, the toes swing more to the middle or outside.  Along with this, the legs stay very tight together, almost like you're running along a line on the road.  The result seems to be that your right foot, then, lands on the outside of the foot.  The "hitch" could be your body's alignment recovering from the imbalance being created.  

It also seems that your hip is dropping as the leg moves back (note how your black shorts dip to each side).  I don't think your quads are active enough to keep you steady and to help drive you forward.  As you can see at the end of the clip, the upside down "V" formed by the angle of your legs isn't creating much of a gap.

This stride has a good look to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGStU5bcao 

Agreed. I actually love running on the white lines in the road. I have always wondered how my feet seem to land on the same spot on the line. Any suggestions on how to correct this?  When working out, my right quad is noticeably stronger than my left. My left hamstring is noticeably stronger than my right. I do a lot of single leg strength excercises so it is noticeable. Also, @gianmarco is right. I am not farmiliar with the term hill. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by JShare87

[gianmarco 25,583]

1 hour ago, tri-man 47 said:

 We don't have hills in Chicago, either.  But today, for example, I ran a couple miles to the expressway and did 18 repeats on a 130 yard incline.  I can also catch a larger/longer local road going high over a number of train tracks.  I also will use sometimes of the stairs in a nearby parking garage.  We make do!

I've been to Chicago. But I lived in Florida.

There. Are. No. Hills. In. Florida.

The only exception is central Florida near the Clermont area and maybe some areas up north. Otherwise, that's it. There are no basements in Florida and 2 story homes are rare. Doing work on a treadmill with incline is about it.  Otherwise elevation is non-existent-- natural or man-made.

Edited March 24, 2019 by gianmarco

[gianmarco 25,583]

25 minutes ago, JShare87 said:

Agreed. I actually love running on the white lines in the road. I have always wondered how my feet seem to land on the same spot on the line. Any suggestions on how to correct this?  When working out, my right quad is noticeably stronger than my left. My left hamstring is noticeably stronger than my right. I do a lot of single leg strength excercises so it is noticeable. Also, @gianmarco is right. I am not farmiliar with the term hill. 

That kind of asymmetry is definitely a red flag. 

Perhaps a running coach can help you with these "issues"? 

[BassNBrew 9,692]

9 miles on the mountain roads today. Back and hip are back to barking. 3 miles up, 4 miles down, and then 2 flat miles to finish. Goal was to give the quads and knees and good pounding. Lots of wild turkeys out this spring

[-OZ- 7,629]

8 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Lol@hills in Florida.

600' over 40 miles is good right? 

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

8 hours ago, gianmarco said:

I've been to Chicago. But I lived in Florida.

There. Are. No. Hills. In. Florida.

The only exception is central Florida near the Clermont area and maybe some areas up north. Otherwise, that's it. There are no basements in Florida and 2 story homes are rare. Doing work on a treadmill with incline is about it.  Otherwise elevation is non-existent-- natural or man-made.

Maybe he could find a good sinkhole to run in and out of.

[Zasada 3,073]

Heard birds chirping this morning on my run for the first time this year.  They were probably mocking my running posture but I'll just ignore that and treat it as the welcome sign of spring that it is.

Just finished Week 6 of my plan.  82.8km (51mi).  Most weekly mileage since pre-Houston training and 4th-most ever.  

11 weeks to go!

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Zasada

[-OZ- 7,629]

11 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

9 miles on the mountain roads today. Back and hip are back to barking. 3 miles up, 4 miles down, and then 2 flat miles to finish. Goal was to give the quads and knees and good pounding. Lots of wild turkeys out this spring

Lots of Jack too. 

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

4 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Lots of Jack too. 

Jack?

[Zasada 3,073]

1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

Jack?

Wild Turkeys

Jack

 

[JAA 1,828]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:05 PM, JShare87 said:

Still taking it easy. Leg is feeling really good, but I still plan to give it a few more days. I had my brother film me on the treadmill this morning so I can see if there is an issue with my form that is putting more stress on a certain area. I’ll post the YouTube link here. I know everyone’s form is different, and I don’t plan to change completely. But, if anyone has some advice or comments, I would really appreciate it. Take care, fellas. https://youtu.be/tmibYcsPIBk

 

1st pace is around 9:00

2nd is 7:35

3rd is like 6:20

 

Also, the shoes have basically no drop (3mm). I usually run in VaporFly 4%(10-12mm), but I read that a higher drop has more of an impact on the issue I’m having.

So, I feel a little creepy having watched the entire video, but I’m a BMF in training so I’m pretty sure I get to keep my man card. 

I noticed alexactly what you said at the end of your post. You looked to be heel striking. It looked painful to your right hip. 

I would guess you would be more comfy in pushing your heel up more with additional cushion.  Have you tried Hoka running kicks before?

Edited March 24, 2019 by JAA

[gianmarco 25,583]

Along these lines, how does the pain line up timewise from when you started using those Nikes?

Edited March 24, 2019 by gianmarco

[gianmarco 25,583]

I may have had a breakthrough today.

I haven't looked at my Strava run and data yet, but will be looking at it closely.  But,.....

I think @SteelCurtain was running in front of me at one point. To explain, right after I hit the 4 mile mark, this guy turns onto the same road I was on but on the opposite side. And this guy is taking these little ### steps but his legs are just churning away effortlessly like the roadrunner. And he's just pulling away from me like it's nothing. Now, granted, I wasn't running hard, but I was still on a downhill and going around 9:00 pace and I'm probably working harder than he is.

After a little bit of this, I figure I need to just see what that feels like. Now I've tried doing a faster cadence before, but I usually gave up after a little because it felt like more work. So, I completely change my running form and start these quick little steps. Mind you, this guy looked like he was barely getting his feet up. So I'm doing it and it almost feels like a sprint with how fast I'm turning over but because they are small steps it felt so weird. At first, I thought there was no way I could keep it up but after a little bit I realize I'm not tiring at all.

Then I look down and I'm running a good bit faster than I was before. What!!?! 

I finished my 7 miles with last 2 miles fastest by running that way the whole time and didn't tire at all. In fact, a couple times I tried to go back to my normal way and it felt so much harder for some reason.

I'm going to have to chew on this a bit and try things out, but there may be something here. I haven't looked yet, but I would guess that cadence was at least 180-185 when I'm normally at 165ish.

[tri-man 47 8,116]

15 hours ago, JShare87 said:

Agreed. I actually love running on the white lines in the road. I have always wondered how my feet seem to land on the same spot on the line. Any suggestions on how to correct this?  When working out, my right quad is noticeably stronger than my left. My left hamstring is noticeably stronger than my right. I do a lot of single leg strength excercises so it is noticeable. Also, @gianmarco is right. I am not farmiliar with the term hill. 

Could you try running one foot on and one foot off the line?  You might also try some lateral movements, such as shown in this training video.  And hopefully you can find a good stairway (or stadium bleachers) to run up in order to get that feel.

[ChiefD 17,281]

Thunderstorms for Carmel on Saturday morning. Bummer.

[MAC_32 11,305]

3 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

Thunderstorms for Carmel on Saturday morning. Bummer.

They don't know yet - models aren't agreeing on what the jet stream's doing late in the week.  That route will provide clarity on what happens after, but it may be mid-week before the line settles.

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

They'll cancel if there are thunderstorms, right?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Juxtatarot

[ChiefD 17,281]

1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

They'll cancel if there are thunderstorms, right?

No idea. Move it to Sunday? 

Either scenario sucks balls. 

[Juxtatarot 10,813]

Just now, ChiefD said:

No idea. Move it to Sunday? 

Either scenario sucks balls. 

Marathons are hard to move due to all the logistics of street closings and stuff.