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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
The Iguana
Footballguy
I'm a math geek so your mileage may vary... but I love the HR info for comparing run to run over time. Right now you are running the same loop over and over averaging about 12 minutes a mile. As you keep up with this, you will see 1 of 2 things happen (likely both early on) - 1) you will run the loop a faster than you currently are; and/or 2) your HR will be lower.
Both are great ways to measure progress and help motivate you as you go along. Strava has a very cool feature on the desktop version for when you run the same route you have previously - if you go into one of the runs you have done this week, you should see a link that says "matched runs". If you click that, it will bring up all the runs that are on the same route. It shows you your pace, HR, etc and you can monitor progress pretty well.
Otis
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
For serious? I kinda feel like an important NFL running back. Otis questionable for tomorrow with strained meniscus
Otis
Footballguy
Cool. Yes I was poking around on the Strava website today, and looking at that matched run feature. I kind of hate the course I run, but it's good enough for now, and I'll keep doing it so I can compare apples to apples. Eventually I want to find a better route in my town. But this is fine for now. And I'm running at 5am, it's not like there's any traffic getting in my way.
gianmarco
Footballguy
@Otis -- There's a list of gear you should really get to keep you safe running in the dark, to help with the cold weather, and other things related to your watch and shoes.
It's going to cost close to $5K for everything, but I can help gather it all up for you and save you the time if you want to send it to me instead.
It's going to cost close to $5K for everything, but I can help gather it all up for you and save you the time if you want to send it to me instead.
belljr
Footballguy
Inside of leg below knee cap, like near that little "divot".. yep mines been torn for 10 years.
Doc said as long as I can stand the pain no need for surgery..
That's my guess anyway
TripleThreat
Footballguy
I've thought about doing MAF for a while, but can't comprehend how slow I'd have to run to keep below 130. I've really struggled with this 130bpm.
When I had a coach for racing mountain bikes he set up my zones... 130bpm is 65% of my max (200) and the top of Zone 1 -my active recovery. My HR runs high, has always run high. Most notably for me during a 50 Mile MTB race I averaged 170bpm for 5.5 hours.
really trying to wrap my head around running sub 130bpm. talk to me people...
When I had a coach for racing mountain bikes he set up my zones... 130bpm is 65% of my max (200) and the top of Zone 1 -my active recovery. My HR runs high, has always run high. Most notably for me during a 50 Mile MTB race I averaged 170bpm for 5.5 hours.
really trying to wrap my head around running sub 130bpm. talk to me people...
ChiefD
Footballguy
My max HR is about 200, so when I run slow my range is in the mid-140's to the mid 150's.
The Maffetone 180 method just doesn't fit me. According to that I should be running my slow runs at 130. That's my heart rate when I walk.
belljr
Footballguy
whats your resting HR?My max HR is about 200, so when I run slow my range is in the mid-140's to the mid 150's.
The Maffetone 180 method just doesn't fit me. According to that I should be running my slow runs at 130. That's my heart rate when I walk.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Mine technically came out to 137. But for a couple more months, it would have been 142. So I split the difference and made it 140. I would say the formula worked pretty well for me. I can tell now when I get over 140. Anything up to that is completely non-labored. Once I hit 140, I can "feel" that I'm working harder, my breathing increases even by a little bit, and most importantly, I start to sweat more. If I keep my run at 140 and below, when I get home, I don't have a period where I need to cool off or stop sweating. Within a couple minutes, it's as if I walked to my mailbox even though I may have run 6 miles.
Even if I hit 145, it takes me at least 15 minutes to stop sweating and cool off despite my HR coming down quickly.
So, when I first started, it was amazing how slow I had to run. I had NEVER run anything that started with an 11. My slowest runs were in the 10's. Most of my runs were in the 9's. When I started with MAF, I was doing miles in the 12s. Here you go. Those laps all have HR 140. Fast forward 4 months and this is what I did at an even lower HR (that 1st mile wasn't accurate either).
Yeah, it's painful at first. But, it's so easy because it feels effortless. Then it becomes a game to not set the HR alert off. Then the times keep getting better. MAF isn't "slow running". It's slowing down so that you can run faster as you keep at it.
Keep in mind, that first run I linked there in July was less than a month from our relay race that I had trained pretty well for. I was in decent shape. The biggest variable was that run in the heat, but the improvement is much bigger than the hot to cold would account for.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
What your age? Start with 180 - age and then adjust based on injury history or other stuff per guidance. Then I give it a little fudge by using a range of +/- 5 beats to get out of being fixated on a single #.
Sand
Footballguy
IT band connects right about there. That's a very common item to be sore.
So, Otis, after the next run go ahead and roll out your IT band. And film it so we can watch a grown man cry.
xulf
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
#twinning @ChiefDMy max HR is about 200, so when I run slow my range is in the mid-140's to the mid 150's.
The Maffetone 180 method just doesn't fit me. According to that I should be running my slow runs at 130. That's my heart rate when I walk.
50. which is my I can't wrap my head around 130.
51 today per my Apple Watch.
gruecd
Footballguy
Yep. I run exclusively in the Zante Pursuit and the Fuel Cell Rebel.
@Otis, what size do you wear? The Pursuits are on sale at Joe's New Balance Outlet (one of my favorite shopping sites) for $49-65 right now. Sadly they don't have any size 13 in 2E width.
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bushdocda
Footballguy
Depends how strict you want to be. I think some folks walk to stay in range if necessary. I’d probably go range of 130-140 and give it a month and see what happens. Or at least a couple runs. If you get over the initial period of ‘slower’ runs, it will probably come down rather quickly.
JShare87
Footballguy
Also, not to pile on, but I’ve had some IT Band issues as well. My research suggested that rolling the area was a bad idea. The video @gianmarco sent of the pretty lady strengthening the glute checks out as the proper way to fix this issue from my experience. I started doing the strengthening exercise idea in the video (minus the moaning), and my issue cleared up. Thanks again, Doc!
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SteelCurtain
Footballguy
xulf
Footballguy
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Otis
Footballguy
LolYep. I run exclusively in the Zante Pursuit and the Fuel Cell Rebel.
@Otis, what size do you wear? The Pursuits are on sale at Joe's New Balance Outlet (one of my favorite shopping sites) for $49-65 right now. Sadly they don't have any size 13 in 2E width.
Size 13 regular width!
PS my Fresh Foam Arishi are just fine for 40 bucks. The only ones that haven't broke me so far.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
Even more impressed with your speed now that I know you are running marathons while wearing skis!Yep. I run exclusively in the Zante Pursuit and the Fuel Cell Rebel.
@Otis, what size do you wear? The Pursuits are on sale at Joe's New Balance Outlet (one of my favorite shopping sites) for $49-65 right now. Sadly they don't have any size 13 in 2E width.
gruecd
Footballguy
Two reasons for this, by the way:
1. It gives the shoe's foam a chance to recover/decompress, allowing the shoe to last longer.
2. Every model of shoes works your muscles a little differently.
gruecd
Footballguy
I've decided that I'm going to race a 10K on Thanksgiving, so I'm officially pacing @gianmarco on Sunday morning.
I'm hereby guaranteeing a PR for him.
I'm hereby guaranteeing a PR for him.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Please note in your race report the number of times you had to say:I've decided that I'm going to race a 10K on Thanksgiving, so I'm officially pacing @gianmarco on Sunday morning.
I'm hereby guaranteeing a PR for him.
Run fast: Don’t be a pooooooooosay
Zasada
Footballguy
@Otis, it sounds like you have your diagnosis from the other #BMFs here. But if you want another n=1 testimonial, I'll add my bit.
About 8 years ago I tried running for about 2-3 weeks. I did everything wrong. Too fast, too much, etc. The reason it only lasted 2-3 weeks is because I got bursitis in my knee which gave me a visible limp, even when walking. Nothing fixed it until I went to the doctor, he diagnosed it as bursitis, and hit me up with a megadose of Naproxen (NSAID). The bursitis was gone after one pill and a night's sleep. But it still scared me off running for 5 years until I took up hiking and then eased into running from that.
Probably not your issue here, but worth a shot. Naproxen is the generic name for Aleve. It has been my go-to when I have random joint/ligament pain. Doesn't do as much for muscle pain though (including my current glute issue).
About 8 years ago I tried running for about 2-3 weeks. I did everything wrong. Too fast, too much, etc. The reason it only lasted 2-3 weeks is because I got bursitis in my knee which gave me a visible limp, even when walking. Nothing fixed it until I went to the doctor, he diagnosed it as bursitis, and hit me up with a megadose of Naproxen (NSAID). The bursitis was gone after one pill and a night's sleep. But it still scared me off running for 5 years until I took up hiking and then eased into running from that.
Probably not your issue here, but worth a shot. Naproxen is the generic name for Aleve. It has been my go-to when I have random joint/ligament pain. Doesn't do as much for muscle pain though (including my current glute issue).
Otis
Footballguy
Too funny. I just took an Aleve this morning. They worked great to treat the pain a couple weeks ago, so I’ll stick with it. Thanks.@Otis, it sounds like you have your diagnosis from the other #BMFs here. But if you want another n=1 testimonial, I'll add my bit.
About 8 years ago I tried running for about 2-3 weeks. I did everything wrong. Too fast, too much, etc. The reason it only lasted 2-3 weeks is because I got bursitis in my knee which gave me a visible limp, even when walking. Nothing fixed it until I went to the doctor, he diagnosed it as bursitis, and hit me up with a megadose of Naproxen (NSAID). The bursitis was gone after one pill and a night's sleep. But it still scared me off running for 5 years until I took up hiking and then eased into running from that.
Probably not your issue here, but worth a shot. Naproxen is the generic name for Aleve. It has been my go-to when I have random joint/ligament pain. Doesn't do as much for muscle pain though (including my current glute issue).
Otis
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
xulf
Footballguy
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MAC_32
Footballguy
It's a rite of passage. I ran myself into injuries trying to get out of my fat stage 12 years ago. It took me longer than a couple weeks because I was just 24, but my point is that derailment gets everyone. It's how you respond and learn from those lessons that separates the successes from the not's.
bushdocda
Footballguy
2 weeks out. Will stack 10-12 miles each day this weekend then cap the cycle with 3rd goal pace session for 10. Want to add a day or so to the Hanson taper so gonna pull that workout up to perhaps Tuesday. Feeling pretty good physically, need to keep working my mind. Cycle has been good, have been mod’ing some Tuesday workouts for time reasons and didn’t hit same peak weekly mileage as last years cycle. Came in with better base so that should mitigate some. Lots of affirming stuff going in through my eyes and ears.
Otis
Footballguy
I'm determined to keep at this. Even if I have to continue to have a "rest week" every few weeks to get the knee up to speed. But I'll get there. Hoping it's a shoe thing, and a change back to the NBs solves it. But either way, I'll keep at it.
xulf
Footballguy
Sounds like this is the time to ##### about injuries...so, I took 4 days off after the 15K and I still have some pain in my left IT band. I did a workout this morning that involved core and legs and the squat portions actually made the knee feel better. I am a bit frustrated with some of the knee and foot pain I have had and am trying to figure out a plan to correct these...and really looking for some advice. Here is what I know:
- My left knee pain started up in the last few weeks. This coincided with new shoes (going from Brooks Ghost 11 to Hoka Rincon) after the HM. The first few weeks seemed fine, but the knee pain also hit with an increase in mileage. I know that I supinate and have high arches and I am wondering if I need to look at some other shoes and/or insoles (custom or otherwise)
- Pics from the latter part of the 15K show that my form was total ####. Once fatigue started setting in, it all went down hill...and I know in general my running form is probably not good. My right foot was flaring open and out and did not appear to be landing straight (I hurt my right knee in HS, but I also don't know if that was happening to compensate for my current left knee issues). Also, my cadence is only ~162, so I want to work on getting that up to 170+ and see if that helps with the impact force/pain.
- Lower body and core have been neglected the last few months, so I need to get back to working those which the lack of strength I am sure is contributing to other pain points.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I would not recommend getting your mind fixated on a particular cadence number. We're all different. I remember @gianmarco being wide-eyed how low mine was when I first activated it earlier this year. As sample sizes increased it was evident it's just mine. I have been able to increase it via improved fitness, but there was nothing deliberate about it. Earlier this year my recovery run cadence numbers were in the high 150's and my priority workouts were in the low 160's. In much better shape now the number in priority workouts is now in the mid-upper 160's, but I haven't really changed anything.
That said, there's probably some truth to your 'poor form' assessment. So I'd just focus on that.Improve strength as you mentioned in point 3 and really focus on keeping your feet square and under your hips, especially once fatigued. It's easy to tell your mind to focus on form early in a run, but that's not typically when problems arise. They develop once you're tired. That's when you really need to be aware of your form, as you noted in your race pictures.
HTH
ChiefD
Footballguy
I have no advice. All I know is when I run, my left leg feels like it's landing straight and true, and my right leg feels like it's acting like a jimmy-leg trying to go to sleep at night. All over the place. I never feel like it lands straight and true like my left leg.
I've just chalked it up to that's just how I run.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Earlier on, I had worked on increasing my cadence. I saw this guy one day run by me who looked like the road runner and was running effortlessly as he blew by me on the other side of the street. My natural cadence when I first started was 168-170ish. At that point, I had been in the lower 160's for most runs. I consciously worked on it and got it to 180 pretty easily. It felt very different at first, like I was sprinting but taking little steps. It felt stupid. And the first minute or so of doing it felt like I was working harder. But sure enough, things felt much easier and I was going faster than ever before with easier effort.
Then I started doing MAF training and it was impossible to keep that cadence at the slower speeds. Plus, when I tried, it would raise my HR by a few beats which was enough to pass my threshold. Thus, I let it go. Now, I'm running back at my natural cadence at 168-170 but it feels economical to me. Later on I may try to go back to the higher cadence but right now I'm not trying to change too much.
xulf
Footballguy
Thanks for the reply
-- you always provide sound information. On the cadence, I am not necessarily looking for the magic 180 number or anything like that...I get that we are all different and I am 6'3 which has to play some part into it. I think that part of increasing it will force me to get my foot down under my hips (like you mentioned) by reducing my stride length. If there are other ways to do that, I am open to anything.
belljr
Footballguy
Tried a run with just watch and headphones with songs on the watch. My time got jacked up because I couldn't figure out how to keep the songs playing while strava was tracking. I finally figure it out but without reading glasses I'm not sure if I paused created split time or what
gianmarco
Footballguy
My 1st post on thisThanks for the reply
On the cadence, I am not necessarily looking for the magic 180 number or anything like that...I get that we are all different and I am 6'3 which has to play some part into it. I think that part of increasing it will force me to get my foot down under my hips (like you mentioned) by reducing my stride length. If there are other ways to do that, I am open to anything.
Subsequent post
ETA -- Keep reading into the next page for more on it, especially @SteelCurtain's input. He's our resident road runner when it comes to high cadence.
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xulf
Footballguy
Thanks - I will give these a read.
Love that this group has the experience/knowledge of these things I'm going through
gianmarco
Footballguy
Not only that, but the veterans here are always glad to help despite answering the same thing over and over each time someone new pops in to get advice. And believe me, I think I've hit every topic they've ever thought of discussing.Thanks - I will give these a read.
Love that this group has the experience/knowledge of these things I'm going through
At least now I try and do my share and regurgitate the stuff I've learned from them. And erotistim runs.
ChiefD
Footballguy
No kidding. When that happens it's like a new hottie started coming to the local bar we all hang out in.
belljr
Footballguy
I'm not 100% I have it all figured out ... Lol.Tried a run with just watch and headphones with songs on the watch. My time got jacked up because I couldn't figure out how to keep the songs playing while strava was tracking. I finally figure it out but without reading glasses I'm not sure if I paused created split time or what
Just tried sitting here and it keeps pausing lol.
belljr
Footballguy
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