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***Official 2023 Pro Cycling Thread*** - The Vuelta will be a Primoz, Vigo, G, Remco mosh pit (3 Viewers)

I mean I assume Jonas attacks tomorrow. There’s also bonus seconds the first time up Lorenzo. I’m pretty surprised Jonas didn’t put in a dig in the end there as well.

I don’t see how Sepp stays in red tomorrow if Jonas really wants it.
 
Velogames Stage Winners
  1. Monte crappe / sammy3469
  2. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus
  3. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof
  4. Give us a Kuss / Sand
  5. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil
  6. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (2)
  7. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (2)
  8. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (3)
  9. Monte crappe / sammy3469 (2)
  10. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (4)
  11. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus (2)
  12. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (3)
  13. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (4)
  14. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne
  15. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (2)
  16. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (3)
  17. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (5)
 
next year at the base of the Queen’s stage Sepp should look over at Jonas & Primož, take off his sunglasses 😎 and say

“I think the strongest rider should win”

Then drop ‘em both
 
BobbyLayne said:
next year at the base of the Queen’s stage Sepp should look over at Jonas & Primož, take off his sunglasses 😎 and say

“I think the strongest rider should win”

Then drop ‘em both
Click to expand...
It’s definitely a weird dynamic. Jonas seems like he could have already take the jersey if he really wanted it (he didn’t push the end of the stage either today or yesterday and probably left 10-20 second on the table), but may not really want it given he needs Sepp for France; but he’s not willing to come in second to Primoz. Primoz seems to care a little bit less about the Sepp riding for him in the Giro angle, but isn’t as strong as Jonas.

Tomorrow will be interesting. All else being equal a breakaway should get up the road, but Bahrain will probably try to keep the break in check for Landa given today. I doubt the Jumbo guys flat out attack each other, but I can see Bahrain doing something similar and forcing Jumbo/Sepp to chase Landa.
 
Best outcome is let a big break form and don’t pace. The podium is locked up. Quit ****ing around with GC Kuss. Dude lost 13 seconds leading out the team leaders in an earlier stage.

Just want to Sepp rewarded for the five six Grand Tours he protected Roglič & Vingegaard. He’ll probably never win another GT and always be a Lieutenant, how about a little payback here?
 
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2020 Vuelta

This tweet
Angliru, Vuelta 2020

Sepp Kuss (who looked fantastic on this climb) sitting up, waiting, continually checking on and pacing his fully cracked teammate, Primoz, who was also in the red jersey 🔴

#GCKUSS #SeppKuss #Sepp #Angliru #vueltaaespana #LaVuelta2023 #LaVuelta23 #lavuelta

******************

Today made me 😞 and 😡

Those guys don’t win 5 6 Grand Tours without him

Too much to ask?

Kuss is so humble. Yesterday he told Jonas after the Stage “You had the legs today, you’re feeling good you should go.”

Today they dropped him, you see Sepp on the radio. Like 5 minutes later TJV social media manager is Tweeting:

Sepp in his communication: “GO GUYS!”

It’s Primoz and Jonas in front now.

ORLY

Is he in the car?
 
Last edited:
denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance

Sorry just trying to get to stage 5 before GC Kuss gets buried by his backstabbing Euromates in Stage 18.
 
here we go, finally found a Grand Tour in which the same team swept the podium

1966 Vuelta

9 teams, 10 riders per team, 55 finished

18 stages - though really it was 22, as 4 of them had two stages on the same day - and 18 days long. Yep, no rest days!

2,949.5 km / 1,833 mi

(2023 Vuelta is 3,153.8 km / 1,960 mi over 21 stages/23 days.

Staftlist Quality per PCS was 415; for reference, the startlist quality of the 2023 Tour de Pologne was 500.
 
Last edited:
Top 25 GC from the 1966 Vuelta a España:

Final General Classification
Rank Rider Team Time
1 Francisco Gabica (ESP) Kas–Kaskol 78h 53' 55"
2 Eusebio Vélez (ESP) Kas–Kaskol + 39"
3 Carlos Echeverría (ESP) Kas–Kaskol + 44"
4 Luis Otaño (ESP) Fagor + 2' 17"
5 José Antonio Momeñe (ESP) Kas–Kaskol + 2' 25"
6 Valentín Uriona (ESP) Kas–Kaskol + 2' 44"
7 Antonio Gómez del Moral (ESP) Kas–Kaskol + 3' 52"
8 Cees Haast (NED) Televizier + 3' 55"
9 Angelino Soler (ESP) Ferrys + 4' 37"
10 José María Errandonea (ESP) Fagor + 4' 40"
11 Sebastián Elorza (ESP) Kas–Kaskol
12 Domingo Perurena (ESP) Fagor
13 Gregorio San Miguel (ESP) Kas–Kaskol
14 Mariano Díaz (ESP) Fagor
15 José Manuel López (ESP) Fagor
16 Eduardo Castelló (ESP) Ferrys
17 Jos van der Vleuten (NED) Televizier
18 Aldo Moser (ITA) Vittadello
19 Ramon Sáez Marzo (ESP) Ferrys
20 Juan María Uribezubia (ESP) Kas–Kaskol
21 Gerben Karstens (NED) Televizier
22 Henk Nijdam (NED) Televizier
23 Luis Pedro Santamarina (ESP) Fagor
24 Rik Wouters (NED) Televizier
25 Dieter Puschel (FRG) Wiels-Groene Leeuw

Kas-Kaskol had 9 riders in the Top 20.

15 of the Top 16 were from Spain.
 
Not sure what to make of these events. I'd be more pro-Sepp if he'd won the jersey in a GC battle and not a break away.
 
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
 
Jonas on Danish TV before Stage 18:

Jonas Vingegaard: "I obviously think it would be greedy to go for the win. I can't see why I should go for the win, when he has done so much for me. [Full transcript of pre-race interview]

I: Jonas Vingegaard there's a lot of discussion about how you rode yesterday. How have you and the team evaluated that you and Roglic rode away from Sepp Kuss?

JV: *Yeah, we've obviously talked about it. As I also said yesterday I'd like to see Sepp win.*

I: Was it then a bit of a mistake to not stay with him?

JV: *Yes and no, I'd say. I was also very much in doubt about what to do in that situation. No-one told me what to do then, so I was also in doubt.*

I: Today is the last big mountain stage. If you have to back up your words about Sepp Kuss, will you than have to stay with him?

JV: *Yeah I think when I've said that I hope Sepp Kuss wins, then I think you you can deduct what my tactic is today.*

I: Richard Plugge told the team had a meeting yesterday where things where discussed. What did you say at the meeting?

JV: *Yeah well, as I've already said internally on the team before, that we shouldn't fight for it. I said the same yesterday.*

I: Could you maybe have the theory that you and Roglic are maybe fighting about being no. 1 in the team hierachy.

JV: *No, I don't think so. We'll see what happens today, I can't reveal too much about what's going to happen, but I hope Sepp will be in red after today too.*

I: There's a lot of discussion online. Between fans, but also between riders like Adam Blythe, David Millar who think it might have been wrong yesterday. Does it affect you that so many are criticizing you?

JV: *No, not really. I don't really care what other people say, it's more my own emotions I'll have to... what is it called... not control, because I have them under control... but feel good about what I am doing and I would feel good if Sepp won.*

I: Is it a hard situation for you as well? If you don't win as the best rider you're getting criticized, if you're giving gifts you're criticized, if you don't let Sepp win you're criticized. Is it easy?

JV: *No. It's obviously not an easy situation, but as I said, I don't really care if people critcize me. I'll have to do with I think is right for me and right for the team, and I'll do that today.*

I: So you're thinking that it's important for you personally and maybe the future for the team, that you let Sepp Kuss ride his chance today?

JV: *Yeah, I obviously think it would be greedy to go for the win. I can't see why I should go for the win, when he has done so much for me.*

I: Can a situation arise where Kuss has so poor legs that you have to leave him behind. Have you talked about how much you can help him?

JV: *Obviously if the three of us are losing the podium, then at some point we have to make sure we're still winning the race.*
Click to expand...
 
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
Unless he signs with Ineos and they go all in on him!
 
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
 
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
206 is an awesome rank... more hauls from Groves incoming too ;)
 
Jaysus said:
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
206 is an awesome rank... more hauls from Groves incoming too ;)
Click to expand...
Check out the rooster on the guy who is in first place. Damn.

SOQ.png
Evenepoel
2039 pts		TJV.png
Roglič
1726 pts		TJV.png
Kuss
1710 pts
TBV.png
Landa
873 pts		ADC.png
Groves
1250 pts		IGD.png
Ganna
555 pts
SOQ.png
Serry
81 pts		SOQ.png
Vervaeke
106 pts		TBV.png
Poels
678 pts
 
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...

That’s awesome, WTG GB
 
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
Pulling away from me. I’m at 675. Not too bad if I say so myself.
 
cheeseypoof said:
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
Pulling away from me. I’m at 675. Not too bad if I say so myself.
Click to expand...

Heck yeah brother! Two best world rankings our league has ever seen, outstanding!

675 of 18885
97th percentile
206 of 18885
99th percentile
 
BobbyLayne said:
cheeseypoof said:
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
Pulling away from me. I’m at 675. Not too bad if I say so myself.
Click to expand...

Heck yeah brother! Two best world rankings our league has ever seen, outstanding!

675 of 18885
97th percentile
206 of 18885
99th percentile
Click to expand...
That’s awesome. i win the tdf once and I think I was in the top 2000
 
Jaysus said:
Nick Vermeil said:
BobbyLayne said:
Kuss has had an amazing year. Nothing cheap or fluky IMO.

Sepp was THE key teammate that allowed the two TJV leaders win Giro, 2 Tours and 3 Vuelta’s + 3 more Grand Tour podiums.

This is probably a complete one off and he never wins another? Either way, chapeau Kuss!
Click to expand...
He's had such a great season. I'm glad Jonas let him win!

Looks like I'll get to stay atop the FBG podium. Sitting at 206 overall at the moment!
Click to expand...
206 is an awesome rank... more hauls from Groves incoming too ;)
Click to expand...
oops... sorry about that jinx :bag:
 
Dianese has 6 WT wins, three of them have been a Grand Tour Stage:
  • 2022 Giro
  • 2023 Giro
  • 2023 Vuelta
Nice to see but pretty underwhelming Vuelta; taking him over Groves was a big mistake. I got a little too enamored by his performance in the Arctic Tour of Norway last month.

He’s going to a Pro Team for the next 2 years so I won’t be able to repeat the error lol.
 
BobbyLayne said:
Velogames Stage Winners
  1. Monte crappe / sammy3469
  2. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus
  3. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof
  4. Give us a Kuss / Sand
  5. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil
  6. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (2)
  7. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (2)
  8. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (3)
  9. Monte crappe / sammy3469 (2)
  10. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (4)
  11. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus (2)
  12. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (3)
  13. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (4)
  14. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne
  15. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (2)
  16. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (3)
  17. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (5)
Click to expand...

18. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (6)
19. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (4)

Stage 19 results
 
Velogames Stage Winners
  1. Monte crappe / sammy3469
  2. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus
  3. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof
  4. Give us a Kuss / Sand
  5. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil
  6. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (2)
  7. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (2)
  8. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (3)
  9. Monte crappe / sammy3469 (2)
  10. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (4)
  11. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus (2)
  12. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (3)
  13. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (4)
  14. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne
  15. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (2)
  16. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (3)
  17. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (5)
  18. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (6)
  19. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (4)
  20. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (5)
 
Velogames Stage Winners
  1. Monte crappe / sammy3469
  2. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus
  3. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof
  4. Give us a Kuss / Sand
  5. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil
  6. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (2)
  7. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (2)
  8. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (3)
  9. Monte crappe / sammy3469 (2)
  10. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (4)
  11. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus (2)
  12. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (3)
  13. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (4)
  14. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne
  15. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (2)
  16. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (3)
  17. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (5)
  18. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (6)
  19. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (4)
  20. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (5)
  21. Give us a Kuss / Sand (2)
 
Jaysus said:
I took a screenshot of the first draft of my team - I usually do a quick one when setting up the league, then tinker with it endlessly. I always think that my OG team would do better; I am going to have the receipt to check this time - lol
Click to expand...
I lost 655 points by tinkering with my first draft, the biggest contributions were from Groves, Landa, and Cian - including Almedia made up for the last two though. Jonas, Remco, and Juan P Lopez were the only 3 that stayed in my squad.
 
BobbyLayne said:
Velogames Stage Winners
  1. Monte crappe / sammy3469
  2. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus
  3. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof
  4. Give us a Kuss / Sand
  5. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil
  6. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (2)
  7. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (2)
  8. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (3)
  9. Monte crappe / sammy3469 (2)
  10. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (4)
  11. RB Brownwings WGUAFC / Jaysus (2)
  12. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (3)
  13. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (4)
  14. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne
  15. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (2)
  16. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (3)
  17. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (5)
  18. Spokes `n Tokes / Nick Vermeil (6)
  19. Boerum Hill Big Ringing / BobbyLayne (4)
  20. Squeaky Wheels / Cheeseypoof (5)
  21. Give us a Kuss / Sand (2)
Click to expand...
If you add up the points from all three GTs I'm easily, way, way ahead in last place. Huzzah.

---------

I'm definitely in awe of what Kuss did this year. Rode all three Grand tours and delivered three wins, the last his own. Good God what a beast.

Anyhoo, great article today from, of all places, Ars Technica. This writer knows cycling. Probably the best quote I've seen on Kuss' win: "What's so remarkable about Kuss winning is that he has devoted his career to helping other cyclists win these grand tours. His Vuelta win is a little bit like Kansas City Chiefs starting center Creed Humphrey winning the National Football League Most Valuable Player trophy instead of his quarterback, Patrick Mahomes."
arstechnica.com

A water carrier just won the hardest cycling race on the planet

The cycling drama came to a head on top of the most demanding mountain in Europe.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
Last edited:
Riders who've completed all three tours with a higher avg. than Sepp Kuss in 2023.
  • 1955 Raphaël Géminiani (FRA)
  • 1957 Gastone Nencini (ITA)
  • 2016 Alejandro Valverde (ESP)
That's it. That's the list.

Year - Rider - Tour - Giro - Vuelta - Average

1955 Raphaël Géminiani (FRA) | 6th 4th 3rd | 4.33
1957 Gastone Nencini (ITA) | 6th 1st 9th | 5.33
2016 Alejandro Valverde (ESP) | 6th 3rd 12th | 7.00
2023 Sepp Kuss (USA) | 14th 12th 1st | 9.00
 
BobbyLayne said:
Riders who've completed all three tours with a higher avg. than Sepp Kuss in 2023.

2016 Alejandro Valverde (ESP) | 6th 3rd 12th | 7.00
2023 Sepp Kuss (USA) | 14th 12th 1st | 9.00
Click to expand...
The 50s was a different era. I don't remember if Alejandro (another beast of a rider - he could easily still be racing) was the team leader here or not. I suspect he was. Sepp didn't get support/help until stage 17 of the last one.
 
Pogačar wins his third straight Il Lombardia and his 5th Monument. Today's race was the third strongest starting field behind only the Tour de France and the World Championships Road Race.

17 wins on the year - 5th straight season with more wins than the previous season - and 63 for his career. He is now tied for 16th for most Monuments won.
 
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