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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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A cop, as in the one who committed the act - no. What I'm saying is we shouldn't immediately convict all cops when a cop kills an unarmed civilian.

You don't need to be so defensive. No one is doing this.

I would not go that far. There is a large segment of the population who does.

Not trusting the police to properly account for their actions isnt convicting them. It is being skeptical of them. Which makes perfect sense.

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Sounds like the murderer enjoys using his taser.

That incident has nothing to do with this incident...calm down!

Edited by The Commish

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Yeah. Hilarious.

Agreed...not sure what's so funny :oldunsure:

The guy is a complete tool. I could not get past his headline. Much of the article turned out not to be his usual over-the-top stupidness, but the implication was ignorant. As I said early on in this thread, nothing that happened here has any bearing what happened in the Martin case or others.

How do you know what "much of the article" said if you couldn't get passed the headline :oldunsure:

The overall implication is that we shouldn't just believe the police officer right off the bat. I don't know why that's "ignorant". Seems pretty spot on actually.

I heard too much crap from that guy before. I read the article after I posted my initial comment. It was very toned down from his usual rhetoric and he actually was rationale in it. There is some overgeneralization, but if that is what he is limiting his point to, I am good with that.

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my point has nothing to do with the cop...i hope the cop gets whatever punishment fits that crime ...i wouldnt have an issue if he got the death penalty if convicted of premeditated murder.

there is somewhere around a 0% chance the cop is convicted of premeditated murder, let alone get the death penalty.

:goodposting:

Murder? Absolutely. Premeditated? Unless this cop knew him and was looking for him, no way. I don't see how the death penalty could even be in the picture.

George Zimmermans lawyer Mark O`mara said on CNN it was premeditated once the officer kept shooting

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Yeah. Hilarious.

Agreed...not sure what's so funny :oldunsure:

The guy is a complete tool. I could not get past his headline. Much of the article turned out not to be his usual over-the-top stupidness, but the implication was ignorant. As I said early on in this thread, nothing that happened here has any bearing what happened in the Martin case or others.

How do you know what "much of the article" said if you couldn't get passed the headline :oldunsure:

The overall implication is that we shouldn't just believe the police officer right off the bat. I don't know why that's "ignorant". Seems pretty spot on actually.

I heard too much crap from that guy before.

You really want to go there after you've held the exact same position in any thread or incident remotely like this one? Talk about..... :potkettle:

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my point has nothing to do with the cop...i hope the cop gets whatever punishment fits that crime ...i wouldnt have an issue if he got the death penalty if convicted of premeditated murder.

there is somewhere around a 0% chance the cop is convicted of premeditated murder, let alone get the death penalty.

:goodposting:

Murder? Absolutely. Premeditated? Unless this cop knew him and was looking for him, no way. I don't see how the death penalty could even be in the picture.

George Zimmermans lawyer Mark O`mara said on CNN it was premeditated once the officer kept shooting

I heard this as well. He said something about the short pause before the final shot was really important.

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Yeah. Hilarious.

Agreed...not sure what's so funny :oldunsure:

The guy is a complete tool. I could not get past his headline. Much of the article turned out not to be his usual over-the-top stupidness, but the implication was ignorant. As I said early on in this thread, nothing that happened here has any bearing what happened in the Martin case or others.

How do you know what "much of the article" said if you couldn't get passed the headline :oldunsure:

The overall implication is that we shouldn't just believe the police officer right off the bat. I don't know why that's "ignorant". Seems pretty spot on actually.

I heard too much crap from that guy before.

You really want to go there after you've held the exact same position in any thread or incident remotely like this one? Talk about..... :potkettle:

If someone posted an article from Limbaugh trying to make a point, you would roll your eyes.

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Guest General Tso

Doubt it helps the cop but the dude took off running from the car. WTF?

This isn't Usain Bolt we're talking about. The cop could have ran him down running backwards.

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Doubt it helps the cop but the dude took off running from the car. WTF?

Immaterial.

I put myself forth as prospective defense attorney (untrained), if he wants to take the "I'm not a killer, I'm just lazy" defense.

"Look, I know that I should get my lazy ### of the couch and change the TV channel, but I got used to the remote. It was the end of the day. Guy starts running. My head tells me I should take off after him. But I got this gun, see..."

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Doubt it helps the cop but the dude took off running from the car. WTF?

Immaterial.

I put myself forth as prospective defense attorney (untrained), if he wants to take the "I'm not a killer, I'm just lazy" defense.

"Look, I know that I should get my lazy ### of the couch and change the TV channel, but I got used to the remote. It was the end of the day. Guy starts running. My head tells me I should take off after him. But I got this gun, see..."

This.

I mean the lazy bastard could've also jumped back in his car and chased him down in his vehicle.

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I'd also opt for the babysitter defense.

"Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, I'm going to ask a question and expect an answer, out loud, before 1 second. You can all blurt it out together. After three weeks of testimony, knowing everything you know, a gun is to your head and you need either the Deceased or the Perpetrator to babysit for the weekend... GO!"

Then after they blurt out and try to make mental sense of things, I make the mind blowing up gesture and sound and say, "Like a beautifully marbled steak, the Defense rests."

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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

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wow... they need to execute this cop.

Should it be done in public, like the execution of Walter Scott?

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wow... they need to execute this cop.

Should it be done in public, like the execution of Walter Scott?

Be sporting about it - give him a 10-step head start.

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wow... they need to execute this cop.

Should it be done in public, like the execution of Walter Scott?

Actually it would cool to put him in an empty building with 8 snipers looking down. Each sniper has one bullet. If he can run across the length of building, and get through the door on the other end, he lives.

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Dual forces:

In a world where people do stupid things, how do we prevent unnecessary use of force?

And in that same world, how do we impress on people to start seeing, valuing and communicating the abject need to stop doing stupid stuff?

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I say we feed each of his limbs to snakes and then tie the snakes in a knot. We then tie the four ends of the snakes to horses and quarter him.

Edited by Fennis
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Doubt it helps the cop but the dude took off running from the car. WTF?

Immaterial.

I put myself forth as prospective defense attorney (untrained), if he wants to take the "I'm not a killer, I'm just lazy" defense.

"Look, I know that I should get my lazy ### of the couch and change the TV channel, but I got used to the remote. It was the end of the day. Guy starts running. My head tells me I should take off after him. But I got this gun, see..."

This.

I mean the lazy bastard could've also jumped back in his car and chased him down in his vehicle.

i havent heard a word about who was in the car with Scott when he was pulled over

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Doubt it helps the cop but the dude took off running from the car. WTF?

This isn't Usain Bolt we're talking about. The cop could have ran him down running backwards.

I agree, the cop could have stood still, smoked a cigarette, then called it in and took off after him and still caught him before he got out of sight.

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Dual forces:

In a world where people do stupid things, how do we prevent unnecessary use of force?

And in that same world, how do we impress on people to start seeing, valuing and communicating the abject need to stop doing stupid stuff?

1. Cops need more training on using appropriate force. It's easy for a cop to get carried away during an arrest when they have adrenaline rushing through them. To control that requires training and experience.

2. Have cops go into schools and show these videos to kids. Explain how cops interpret certain actions, how it sets off alarm bells in their head, and how it can cause them to over-react.

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Does anybody else get uncomfortable when listening to the interviews with family and friends.

Edited by Ditka Butkus

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Does anybody else get uncomfortable when listening to the interviews with family and friends.

the mother had that white shmegma film on the corners of her mouth and that strand that goes up and down between her lips when she talked :X

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Only thing that could make this incident more compelling would be if it had a soundtrack played over it about having empathy for your fellow man, about walking in someone else's shoes. I don't know, like "What its Like" by Everlast.

Edited by Mr. Ham

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Only thing that could make this incident more compelling would be if it had a soundtrack played over it about having empathy for your fellow man, about walking in someone else's shoes. I don't know, like "What its Like" by Everlast.

Fortunately I don't know what it's like to have kids who I fail to pay child support long enough that there's a warrant out for my arrest.

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Only thing that could make this incident more compelling would be if it had a soundtrack played over it about having empathy for your fellow man, about walking in someone else's shoes. I don't know, like "What its Like" by Everlast.

Fortunately I don't know what it's like to have kids who I fail to pay child support long enough that there's a warrant out for my arrest.

If you lived in SC, like Walter Scott, it can be as little as 5 days before a civil contempt hearing is issued, which could result in a up to a year in jail.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-falling-behind-child-support-can-end-jail#

Under South Carolina law, if a family receives public benefits, it takes only five days of a non-custodial parent, usually a father, falling behind on a payment to trigger a civil contempt hearing that could mean ending up in jail for up to a year

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Guest General Tso

http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

People are more concerned about the (perceived)intent than the actual crime.

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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

Are you ####### kidding me with the Tamir Rice incident?

You have grown ### men walking around in public with AR-15’s in Texas yet they managed not to get shot to death.

Some crazy old dude in Michigan holding a gun and daring the police to shoot him yet he doesn’t get shot to death

But a 12 year old playing with a ####### toy gets gunned down and you blame him for being a ####### 12 year old kid.

You are a ####### ####### rhymes with ducking basswhole

Edited by Yenrub
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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

People are more concerned about the (perceived)intent than the actual crime.

According to the State, thought crimes are indeed actual crimes (hate crime laws).

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Guest General Tso

http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

People are more concerned about the (perceived)intent than the actual crime.

According to the State, thought crimes are indeed actual crimes (hate crime laws).

And I have no problem at all invoking hate crimes if and when they occur. But this incessant pulling of the race card has gotten so ridiculous that people automatically accept it as unchallenged fact that all these instances of police brutality are acts of racism. Sorry, but if racism was as persistent a problem as these people claim, it would be reflected in the broader crime statistics with high white-on-black crime rates. But it's not. In fact, the numbers are highly skewed the other way. But who needs facts when you have the media and race-baiting activists whipping everyone into a frenzy. Let's just believe the worst in people and make the dividing lines even wider. It's sickening.
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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

People are more concerned about the (perceived)intent than the actual crime.

According to the State, thought crimes are indeed actual crimes (hate crime laws).

And I have no problem at all invoking hate crimes if and when they occur. But this incessant pulling of the race card has gotten so ridiculous that people automatically accept it as unchallenged fact that all these instances of police brutality are acts of racism. Sorry, but if racism was as persistent a problem as these people claim, it would be reflected in the broader crime statistics with high white-on-black crime rates. But it's not. In fact, the numbers are highly skewed the other way. But who needs facts when you have the media and race-baiting activists whipping everyone into a frenzy. Let's just believe the worst in people and make the dividing lines even wider. It's sickening.

Racism comes in many forms. Doesnt necessarily have to be so overt. People arent instantly saying, this cop was racist. People are saying something is wrong with the system that seems to be leading to many of these incidents occurring, and needs to be looked at because there might be some institutional racism at play. its not always so cut and dry that the cop is a racist. :shrug:

Edited by PinkydaPimp

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The guy who shot the phone video said it looked to him like the deceased was just trying to get away, not struggling for the taser.

Maybe mentioned upthread, but he also contradicted the official police report that they they tried to administer CPR and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

At the least, any police that falsified reports should be fired immediately, especially with this being a very visible, high profile, flashpoint-type case. They already fired, charged, arrested and jailed the shooter (has bail been set?). Can criminal charges be filed against them as well? Obstruction of justice and an ongoing investigation? Aiding and abetting a murderer? Is it illegal to just stand around nonchalantly while a suspect bleeds out and dies?

There was a case in Los Angeles where two bank robbers with full body armor and high powered assault rifles with armor piercing rounds (the kind that can cut through an engine block like a can of coke) started a firefight with police. The one that lasted the longest was brought down with a shot under a car into his foot or lower leg (good thinking). Reportedly they made no attempt to keep him from bleeding out and dying, and I don't remember any repercussions, but that was obviously a much different situation.

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The police officer murdered/killed the "suspect" in cold blood.

End of story, no?

It's more than obvious, IMO.

Edited by Leviathan

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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

We jumped awfully quickly to this being an act of racism didn't we? Do we have any evidence that the cop here was racist? Past testimony of friends, affiliation with white supremacist groups, use of racial epithets, questionnable emails or website usage? Anything? Or are we now automatically assuming that every time a white-on-black crime is committed it must be racism? Is it possible - just possible - that race had nothing to do with this?

I wish to God we had some intelligent leadership in this movement with the foresight to paint this not as an issue of racism but as an issue of police brutality. Framing the issue that way would get a lot more people on board and bring about the changes we need sooner rather than later.

People are more concerned about the (perceived)intent than the actual crime.

According to the State, thought crimes are indeed actual crimes (hate crime laws).

And I have no problem at all invoking hate crimes if and when they occur. But this incessant pulling of the race card has gotten so ridiculous that people automatically accept it as unchallenged fact that all these instances of police brutality are acts of racism. Sorry, but if racism was as persistent a problem as these people claim, it would be reflected in the broader crime statistics with high white-on-black crime rates. But it's not. In fact, the numbers are highly skewed the other way. But who needs facts when you have the media and race-baiting activists whipping everyone into a frenzy. Let's just believe the worst in people and make the dividing lines even wider. It's sickening.

I do have a problem with hate crime laws. The criminal should be prosecuted for his actions, not what he was thinking when he acted.

I've said I believe there are racist cops in the U.S. I've also said that framing these incidents in racial terms obscures the real issue.

And judging by my perusal of this thread (and others), plenty of people are all too happy to participate in the obfuscation.

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The police officer murdered/killed the "suspect" in cold blood.

End of story, no?

It's more than obvious, IMO.

I'm struggling to figure out what there have been 9 pages of posts about. And how there has been disagreement about anything.

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The police officer murdered/killed the "suspect" in cold blood.

End of story, no?

It's more than obvious, IMO.

I'm struggling to figure out what there have been 9 pages of posts about. And how there has been disagreement about anything.

i havent seen anyone disagreeing with each other about the guilt of the cop...more just discussing the nuances of the laws and what not

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http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Stop doing stupid things around cops!

Floyd Dent - WTH are you doing trying to open your door on a traffic stop?

Tamir Rice - don't play with toy guns in public and certainly don't reach for it when the cops arrive.

Antonio Zambrano-Montes - WTH are you throwing rocks when cops have their guns pointed at you?

Alesia Thomas - don't resist arrest - cops have no sense of appropriate force and treat every suspect like they're Marshawn Lynch. Also, don't abandon your kids at the police station.

Are you ####### kidding me with the Tamir Rice incident?

You have grown ### men walking around in public with AR-15’s in Texas yet they managed not to get shot to death.

Some crazy old dude in Michigan holding a gun and daring the police to shoot him yet he doesn’t get shot to death

But a 12 year old playing with a ####### toy gets gunned down and you blame him for being a ####### 12 year old kid.

You are a ####### ####### rhymes with ducking basswhole

I guess the city of Cleveland is a ducking basswhole, too:

In the court filing, which was a formal response from the city to a federal lawsuit by the Rice family, city attorneys declare that Tamir and his family “were directly and proximately caused by their own acts. . .,” and added that Tamir caused his own death “by the failure. . . to exercise due care to avoid injury.”

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The police officer murdered/killed the "suspect" in cold blood.

End of story, no?

It's more than obvious, IMO.

I'm struggling to figure out what there have been 9 pages of posts about. And how there has been disagreement about anything.

Boy, I say boy, there's this thing called reading instead of declaring. And boy, I say boy, you ought try it.

Edited by rockaction

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On NPR yesterday they had a professor on who did a study of people choosing to use deadly force when confronted with black or white threats. The "threats" either were either legitimate (holding a gun), or harmless (holding a wallet or cell phone). On average the participants fired more often and in a shorter amount of time at the black threats rather than the white ones. This included participants who were themselves African-American (I can't remember if the participants were police officers or just regular citizens).

To me this illustrates how this is a thornier issue than mere racism. While the idea of profiling may be distasteful, unethical and possibly even illegal, it appears to be an integral part of how we, as humans, process the world around us. For whatever reason black men are perceived as more threatening, even to other blacks.

I am in no way defending what this officer did, he may be a simple redneck racist for all I know. I'm just pointing out that the issue of race in these shootings may be more complicated than white cops being racist or not. They may just be human. Solving this problem might be much more difficult than simply weeding out the "bad apples".

As an aside, they also had a black officer on who was involved in some of the sensitivity (or whatever it's called) training that always seems to follow in the wake of these shootings. He said it was a waste of time. It seems to serve more as a means to placate the community outrage than anything.

I'm trying to find a link to this but it's proving more challenging than I imagined. It was certainly thought provoking.

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On NPR yesterday they had a professor on who did a study of people choosing to use deadly force when confronted with black or white threats. The "threats" either were either legitimate (holding a gun), or harmless (holding a wallet or cell phone). On average the participants fired more often and in a shorter amount of time at the black threats rather than the white ones. This included participants who were themselves African-American (I can't remember if the participants were police officers or just regular citizens).

To me this illustrates how this is a thornier issue than mere racism. While the idea of profiling may be distasteful, unethical and possibly even illegal, it appears to be an integral part of how we, as humans, process the world around us. For whatever reason black men are perceived as more threatening, even to other blacks.

I am in no way defending what this officer did, he may be a simple redneck racist for all I know. I'm just pointing out that the issue of race in these shootings may be more complicated than white cops being racist or not. They may just be human. Solving this problem might be much more difficult than simply weeding out the "bad apples".

As an aside, they also had a black officer on who was involved in some of the sensitivity (or whatever it's called) training that always seems to follow in the wake of these shootings. He said it was a waste of time. It seems to serve more as a means to placate the community outrage than anything.

I'm trying to find a link to this but it's proving more challenging than I imagined. It was certainly thought provoking.

I don't really see how what you wrote there doesn't equal racism.

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On NPR yesterday they had a professor on who did a study of people choosing to use deadly force when confronted with black or white threats. The "threats" either were either legitimate (holding a gun), or harmless (holding a wallet or cell phone). On average the participants fired more often and in a shorter amount of time at the black threats rather than the white ones. This included participants who were themselves African-American (I can't remember if the participants were police officers or just regular citizens).

To me this illustrates how this is a thornier issue than mere racism. While the idea of profiling may be distasteful, unethical and possibly even illegal, it appears to be an integral part of how we, as humans, process the world around us. For whatever reason black men are perceived as more threatening, even to other blacks.

I am in no way defending what this officer did, he may be a simple redneck racist for all I know. I'm just pointing out that the issue of race in these shootings may be more complicated than white cops being racist or not. They may just be human. Solving this problem might be much more difficult than simply weeding out the "bad apples".

As an aside, they also had a black officer on who was involved in some of the sensitivity (or whatever it's called) training that always seems to follow in the wake of these shootings. He said it was a waste of time. It seems to serve more as a means to placate the community outrage than anything.

I'm trying to find a link to this but it's proving more challenging than I imagined. It was certainly thought provoking.

I don't really see how what you wrote there doesn't equal racism.

Unconscious racism, perhaps. But if everyone is unconsciously racist it ceases to have any meaning, at least in the traditional sense. Can one be racist against one's own race?

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