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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go?

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1 hour ago, Iceman03 said:

Tomlin allowed AB’s antics

Excuse after excuse after excuse... all because people want to coach worship (and, ya, go ahead and get in a tiff I suggested people are coach worshiping... they are!). There is direct correlation between the collapse and Tomlin this year in my mind. Grossly outcoached, underprepared, inept and now known coddler of players. 

Collapse is a 9-7 and one play from the playoffs?  A collapse is 5-11 and  never in contention for anything.

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1 hour ago, ZenoRazon said:

Collapse is a 9-7 and one play from the playoffs?  A collapse is 5-11 and  never in contention for anything.

I think youve made your opinion plenty clear man. 

Repeating the same thing ad nauseum doesn't make it any more correct. 

Edited by treat88
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8 minutes ago, treat88 said:

I think youve made your opinion plenty clear man. 

Repeating the same thing ad nauseum doesn't make it any more correct. 

I agree when talking to the same person. 

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I read the Fowler article the other day and don't agree with all the takes on here about it.

Tomlin just oversaw the greatest 6 year stretch by a WR in the history of the game. You can all say he allowed AB to get away with antics to each their own and I'm not going to debate you. You are welcome to your opinion(s), just going to put my opinion out that he deserves credit for working with AB and properly managing the player who I'm not seeing anyone describe as a locker room cancer or bad teammate.

As for some players getting preferential treatment. That's the way life works.  What I actually appreciate about Tomlin, and I think his players appreciate, is that he is honest about it the fact he puts up with more from some players and honest about fact when the performance does not dictate it he won't put up with them anymore.

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It is the same way in real life.  Your boss puts up with more from the superstar individual contributor than he/she does with less productive employees. It's tough when dealing with somebody who is irreplaceable and knows it. 

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16 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

Collapse is a 9-7 and one play from the playoffs?  A collapse is 5-11 and  never in contention for anything.

Biggest clown on this board and it’s not close. This COLLAPSE is the worst of the modern era with a healthy QB. They were 7-2-1, you dunce. I get you like coaches that choke in clutch games against the Raiders but save me on how this wasn’t a collapse of epic proportion.

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12 minutes ago, Iceman03 said:

Biggest clown on this board and it’s not close. This COLLAPSE is the worst of the modern era with a healthy QB. They were 7-2-1, you dunce. I get you like coaches that choke in clutch games against the Raiders but save me on how this wasn’t a collapse of epic proportion.

I believe ya clown, you have me convinced.

What in the hell are you talking about?  Who was 7-2-1?   And be cool with the name calling ....ok?

I like winning coaches my man, which Tomlin has always been with the Steelers. Missing the playoffs by one game is a collapse,  you can't be serious.

Edited by ZenoRazon

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1 hour ago, bucksoh said:

Dont feed the troll. 

2 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

I believe ya clown, you have me convinced.

What in the hell are you talking about?  Who was 7-2-1?   And be cool with the name calling ....ok?

I like winning coaches my man, which Tomlin has always been with the Steelers. Missing the playoffs by one game is a collapse,  you can't be serious.

At the risk of doing the first quoted, everyone can read what you write.  You arent having independent conversations. We all see you like Tomlin. Cool. No need to keep repeating it over and over. 

That said, its reasonably obvious that as an apparent Lions/Niners fan you dont follow the Steelers closely. They, the Steelers, were 7-2-1 and in the drivers seat for a 1-2 seed at that point.  Multiple brutal losses with the same tired tropes that are hallmarks of Tomlin teams left them watching rather than playing.  It was indeed an epic collapse for a team with this much talent. 

As much as you want to say his record points to a good coach, there are legitimate reasons fans that follow the team closely arent convinced hes the right guy. He will be their coach for at least another season, and likely a couple, so I really hope you are more correct than not, but the guy's record belies fundamental issues that many believe are serious enough that a SB ring isnt happening with him in charge.

 I just dont wanna see you post, but hes a winner, in response to discussion of those issues every single time. 

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2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

At the risk of doing the first quoted, everyone can read what you write.  You arent having independent conversations. We all see you like Tomlin. Cool. No need to keep repeating it over and over. 

That said, its reasonably obvious that as an apparent Lions/Niners fan you dont follow the Steelers closely. They, the Steelers, were 7-2-1 and in the drivers seat for a 1-2 seed at that point.  Multiple brutal losses with the same tired tropes that are hallmarks of Tomlin teams left them watching rather than playing.  It was indeed an epic collapse for a team with this much talent. 

As much as you want to say his record points to a good coach, there are legitimate reasons fans that follow the team closely arent convinced hes the right guy. He will be their coach for at least another season, and likely a couple, so I really hope you are more correct than not, but the guy's record belies fundamental issues that many believe are serious enough that a SB ring isnt happening with him in charge.

 I just dont wanna see you post, but hes a winner, in response to discussion of those issues every single time. 

Why r u including me in with Zeno don't understand?

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1 minute ago, treat88 said:

At the risk of doing the first quoted, everyone can read what you write.  You arent having independent conversations. We all see you like Tomlin. Cool. No need to keep repeating it over and over. 

That said, its reasonably obvious that as an apparent Lions/Niners fan you dont follow the Steelers closely. They, the Steelers, were 7-2-1 and in the drivers seat for a 1-2 seed at that point.  Multiple brutal losses with the same tired tropes that are hallmarks of Tomlin teams left them watching rather than playing.  It was indeed an epic collapse for a team with this much talent. 

As much as you want to say his record points to a good coach, there are legitimate reasons fans that follow the team closely arent convinced hes the right guy. He will be their coach for at least another season, and likely a couple, so I really hope you are more correct than not, but the guy's record belies fundamental issues that many believe are serious enough that a SB ring isnt happening with him in charge.

 I just dont wanna see you post, but hes a winner, in response to discussion of those issues every single time. 

Trust me, zeno will come back & try to shoot down what you say. He is the classic troll. To have comments about how great tomlin is & telling everyone else they're wrong, and not know the Steelers were 7-2-1 is all you need to know. He didn't even know tomlin was the engineer of an epic season collapse...

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10 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

Why r u including me in with Zeno don't understand?

Your dont feed the troll post seemed applicable.

Plus the damn editor wouldnt delete it once I accidentally included it.

So I tried to make it work. Lol. 

Edited by treat88

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10 minutes ago, treat88 said:

At the risk of doing the first quoted, everyone can read what you write.  You arent having independent conversations. We all see you like Tomlin. Cool. No need to keep repeating it over and over. 

That said, its reasonably obvious that as an apparent Lions/Niners fan you dont follow the Steelers closely. They, the Steelers, were 7-2-1 and in the drivers seat for a 1-2 seed at that point.  Multiple brutal losses with the same tired tropes that are hallmarks of Tomlin teams left them watching rather than playing.  It was indeed an epic collapse for a team with this much talent. 

As much as you want to say his record points to a good coach, there are legitimate reasons fans that follow the team closely arent convinced hes the right guy. He will be their coach for at least another season, and likely a couple, so I really hope you are more correct than not, but the guy's record belies fundamental issues that many believe are serious enough that a SB ring isnt happening with him in charge.

 I just dont wanna see you post, but hes a winner, in response to discussion of those issues every single time. 

Actually been into the Steelers since the days of John Henry Johnson.

Wanna talk their first draft pick ever?

Talking the 7-2-1.

After 4 weeks....1-2-1, then they knock out 6 wins, lose AT Denver after a win AT Jax,. How many teams win back to back road games? Not unusual to lose that second one.

Losing to the Chargers?  A lot of teams lost to the Chargers. There is something weird with the Raiders????   Then they beat the Pats, lose...AT...NO which everybody else does, beat Cinncy.

They ended up with 4 road games in 6 weeks, that is hard on everyone.

Time to go with......see what happens in 2019.

 

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20 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Trust me, zeno will come back & try to shoot down what you say. He is the classic troll. To have comments about how great tomlin is & telling everyone else they're wrong, and not know the Steelers were 7-2-1 is all you need to know. He didn't even know tomlin was the engineer of an epic season collapse...

So wrong it's comical.

What it is is you are one of those who freak out when disagreed with.

Trolling...hahaha~~   If I was....you got it,  yep, nailed it.....still trolling?

Belichick, Carroll....hmmm?....now it is who next?  Tomlin?

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38 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Trust me, zeno will come back & try to shoot down what you say. He is the classic troll. To have comments about how great tomlin is & telling everyone else they're wrong, and not know the Steelers were 7-2-1 is all you need to know. He didn't even know tomlin was the engineer of an epic season collapse...

Sadly, already  proven correct. 

Apologies for even bothering. 

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2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Sadly, already  proven correct. 

Apologies for even bothering. 

Bothering with what?  Do you get road vs home?

So unless it's....yes yes you are so right....sheesh~~~~

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39 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

So wrong it's comical.

What it is is you are one of those who freak out when disagreed with.

Trolling...hahaha~~   If I was....you got it,  yep, nailed it.....still trolling?

Belichick, Carroll....hmmm?....now it is who next?  Tomlin?

Get this back 100% on football on not on insulting each other. If you don't want to that, find a new board. 

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Get this back 100% on football on not on insulting each other. If you don't want to that, find a new board. 

I totally agree Joe.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

Get this back 100% on football on not on insulting each other. If you don't want to that, find a new board. 

Agree with message. Don't at all understand why you chose to direct the post about not insulting people to the guy who is actually getting insulted?

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The Steelers started 1-2-1 and needed a 6 game winning streak to get to 7-2-1.   I didn't hear too much about firing Tomlin then.   Then came the collapse, there is no way to sugar-coat losing 4 out of your last 6, but when I look at some of those losses it was a culmination of costly turnovers, an injury to Ben in one game, a terrible place kicker, some bad luck on calls and yes a couple of questionable calls/challenges by the head coach.    And as Zeno pointed out, 4 of those 6 games were on the road.

My position is this:  I think Tomlin is a good coach but needs to add more discipline and get someone to help on challenges.  I think the team isn't as talented (especially on defense) as many here think that it is.  They have serious needs at LB and CB and likely will need to get a WR to replace Brown which is going to be close to impossible.  They also need to bring in another kicker and get rid of Boswell if he has issues in camp and preseason.   

I am not sure how many of these issues they can address this offseason but I don't think getting rid of a successful coach after one non-playoff season makes sense.  Give him another season and if the team declines then get rid of him then.   

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To "restore discipline" you would have to bring in a new coach. Tomlin can not "put his foot down".
This is the problem when your a "nice guy" boss. Which veteran is going to tow the line from Tomlin?
Keep Tomlin and jettison Brown. No way you let Brown come to camp and get preferential treatment.

The Steelers have a history of replacing WR's-maybe the best at it. Your not going to plug in just one
guy to replace Brown. Draft a WR in the 2nd and plan on Washington getting better. MacDonald showed
flashes of being a playmaker. 

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1 hour ago, Godsbrother said:

My position is this:  I think Tomlin is a good coach but needs to add more discipline and get someone to help on challenges.  I think the team isn't as talented (especially on defense) as many here think that it is.  They have serious needs at LB and CB and likely will need to get a WR to replace Brown which is going to be close to impossible.  They also need to bring in another kicker and get rid of Boswell if he has issues in camp and preseason.   

I agree with this, but again that lends scrutiny to Tomlins role in the personnel process. There no two ways around the impact losing Shazier has had. Its been huge and obviously cant be laid at Tomlins feet. However, he's been pretty sketchy, especially for an ex DC that wants to rely on his D to win the "attrition" football style games his philosophy demands it to, at keeping this unit afloat.

Maybe its simply organizational, but they just havent been able to hit with any of their picks in the secondary for a while. 

Id also suggest Tomlins road woes generally were simply highlighted this season. Road games are tough, but SB teams beat the teams they are supposed to even when they travel. The week 1 CLE tie, and the DEN and OAK losses were bad losses and in the context of both Tomlins past season road performance and the specifics of how they lost those games, they were symbolic of Tomlins repeated flaws. 

Play down on the road, get your team a second half lead and then go conservative and force your D to win a close game, and make bad situational mistakes that often times appear as not being prepared.

Its been few and far beteeen that Ive watched a game and thought Tomlins Xs and Os involvement was responsible for a W, while it has seemed that his Xs and Os is directly involved in many of the bad losses they endure. 

There may be a lot of correlation vs causation with my sentiments. I get that. I see Tomlin lose the same type of games in the same type of ways over and over and I hang a chunk of the blame on him. I dont see anything changing there to think it wont be repeat performances in upcoming seasons either. 

Edited by treat88

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1 minute ago, treat88 said:

I agree with this, but again that lends scrutiny to Tomlins role in the personnel process. There no two ways around the impact losing Shazier has had. Its been huge and obviously cant be laid at Tomlins feet. However, he's been pretty sketchy, especially for an ex DC that wants to rely on his D to win the "attrition" football style games his philosophy demands it to, at keeping this unit afloat.

Maybe its simply organizational, but they just havent been able to hit with any of their picks in the secondary for a while. 

Id also suggest Tomlins road woes generally were simply highlighted this season. Road games are tough, but SB teams beat the teams they are supposed to even when they travel. The week 1 CLE tie, and the DEN and OAK losses were bad losses and in the context of both Tomlins past season road performance and the specifics of how they lost those games, they were symbolic of Tomlins repeated flaws. 

Play down on the road, get your team a second half lead and then go conservative and force your D to win a close game, and make bad situational mistakes that often times appear as not being prepared. 

There may be a lot of correlation vs causation with my sentiments. I get that. I see Tomlin lose the same type of games in the same type of ways over and over and I hang a chunk of the blame on him. I dont see anything changing there to think it wont be repeat performances in upcoming seasons either. 

I don't think you can blame a game where your HoF QB has 5 turnovers, your RB fumbles inside your own 5 yard line late in the 4th quarter in a game that was all-but-won and then your place kicker misses a 42-yard game winning FG attempt in OT on the head coach.   That loss was totally on the players.

I think he has more culpability in the Denver game but there again some bad turnovers by players that should have known better cost them the game.  In Oakland he had to play his backup QB that threw 2 picks.  No excuse for his defense giving up two 4th quarter touchdowns to Oakland so that's on him but then you have Boswell miss TWO FGs that would have been the difference in the game.

I am not saying Tomlin doesn't deserve to take heat for some of these losses, he does, but it isn't all on him.   If any of these players don't cough up the ball once or your placekicker makes one kick you have another double-digit winning season and make the playoffs.  Now I know that is not good enough for some fans and I understand the goal is the Super Bowl but Tomlin is in the hunt every season -- there are teams that change head coaches like their underwear and never sniff the playoffs.   

All I am saying that I would rather give him another season to turn it around before I give up and start over.

 

 

 

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Is 6 TOs and 12 penalties at CLE really just on the players tho? Doesnt that speak to preparedness to a degree.

Arent the DEN TOs, that happened at critical points, when simply not turning the ball over gets you points not indicative of lack of awareness? 

Was Ben really too hurt to play in OAK?

Who keeps trotting out a Boswell that was obviously struggling from the get go to miss those critical later season kicks? 

Theres a chicken and egg here for sure when it comes to coach vs player responsibility. Its not the specific issues I hold Tomlin to blame for, its the season after season repetitive issues that I have begun pinning on him. 

Edited by treat88

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4 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Is 6 TOs and 12 penalties at CLE really just on the players tho? Doesnt that speak to preparedness to a degree.

You keep referring to this lack of preparedness against CLE but you continue to overlook the fact that they were winning the game 21 -7 midway through the 4th quarter.  Tomlin can be criticized for many things this season, but the CLE game is not one of them.

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2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Is 6 TOs and 12 penalties at CLE really just on the players tho? Doesnt that speak to preparedness to a degree.

Possibly but they really weren't the reason they lost the CLE game.  They turned the ball over 6 times!

2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Arent the DEN TOs, that happened at critical points, when simply not turning the ball over gets you points not indicative of lack of awareness? 

Yes which is why I said that Tomlin was more culpable in the Denver loss

2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Was Ben really too hurt to play in OAK?

Tomlin's not a doctor and I didn't see Ben chomping in Tomlin's ear begging to get back in the game.   The bottom line is that Ben DID get knocked out of the game and left the field for evaluation.   Beyond that  we don't know really know the details.   If you want to blame Tomlin for his time management or the collapse of his defense in the 4th quarter of the Oakland I would agree with you but blaming Tomlin on not getting Ben back in sooner is not fair when we don't know what the medical staff or Ben himself was saying.

 

2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Who keeps trotting out a Boswell that was obviously struggling from the get go to miss those critical later season kicks? 

Tomlin trotted him out there because he didn't have another kicker.   Is it Tomlin's fault for not signing a new kicker?  Maybe but  I have a feeling that Boswell's contract had something to do with that.  Tomlin isn't the GM so I think his hands were at least somewhat tied in the decision to stick with Boswell.

 

2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Theres a chicken and egg here for sure when it comes to coach vs player responsibility. Its not the specific issues I hold Tomlin to blame for, its the season after season repetitive issues that I have begun pinning on him. 

Fair enough and I understand where you are coming from.  I still think he is a good coach and deserves another shot to turn things around.

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8 minutes ago, Steeler said:

You keep referring to this lack of preparedness against CLE but you continue to overlook the fact that they were winning the game 21 -7 midway through the 4th quarter.  Tomlin can be criticized for many things this season, but the CLE game is not one of them.

I do.  I also know I'm coming off as a Tomlin hater far more than I actually am in here.

I just look at the sloppy, undisciplined effort they put out in CLE, coupled with giving up the lead late as the epitome of Tomlin road issues.

Exactly how badly did the team have to perform to have that game end in a tie and how is a chunk of that not on the HC who's teams have done this many times before on the road?

The specific game can be written off as players, but the performance pattern can't IMO.

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1 minute ago, treat88 said:

The specific game can be written off as players, but the performance pattern can't IMO.

I know exactly what you mean about the "Tomlin road woes" pattern of play, I just think this one game doesn't fit that pattern.  However, on second thought, it's not worth arguing about :thumbup:

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10 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Tomlin's not a doctor and I didn't see Ben chomping in Tomlin's ear begging to get back in the game.   The bottom line is that Ben DID get knocked out of the game and left the field for evaluation.   Beyond that  we don't know really know the details.   If you want to blame Tomlin for his time management or the collapse of his defense in the 4th quarter of the Oakland I would agree with you but blaming Tomlin on not getting Ben back in sooner is not fair when we don't know what the medical staff or Ben himself was saying.

The Oak loss was maybe Tomlins single worst performance as a HC.  That Dobbs INT was as bad a play call as it gets.

My only further input was post game, Ben himself seemed to indicate he was ready to go.

There was plenty of bad there on every level of the team to go around.

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Prediction:

By this time next season it will be......

Hard to believe there was ever any negative Mike Tomlin talk, what were we thinking, sheesh~~~~~~~

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35 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Prediction:

By this time next season it will be......

Hard to believe there was ever any negative Mike Tomlin talk, what were we thinking, sheesh~~~~~~~

Hopefully there’s no COLD.....okay?

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5 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

Prediction:

By this time next season it will be......

Hard to believe there was ever any negative Mike Tomlin talk, what were we thinking, sheesh~~~~~~~

Wrong I will always be calling for his head.  The only way is if he gets to the SB and I know that is not gonna happen.  Be lucky to go 8-8.

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9 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

The Steelers started 1-2-1 and needed a 6 game winning streak to get to 7-2-1.   I didn't hear too much about firing Tomlin then.   Then came the collapse, there is no way to sugar-coat losing 4 out of your last 6, but when I look at some of those losses it was a culmination of costly turnovers, an injury to Ben in one game, a terrible place kicker, some bad luck on calls and yes a couple of questionable calls/challenges by the head coach.    And as Zeno pointed out, 4 of those 6 games were on the road.

My position is this:  I think Tomlin is a good coach but needs to add more discipline and get someone to help on challenges.  I think the team isn't as talented (especially on defense) as many here think that it is.  They have serious needs at LB and CB and likely will need to get a WR to replace Brown which is going to be close to impossible.  They also need to bring in another kicker and get rid of Boswell if he has issues in camp and preseason.   

I am not sure how many of these issues they can address this offseason but I don't think getting rid of a successful coach after one non-playoff season makes sense.  Give him another season and if the team declines then get rid of him then.   

There is plenty of talent on Defense said this all year.  We finished 9th.  So we can't be as bad as you keep posting.  If we had a better D.C. We would be closer to number 1, than you keep saying we need more talent to be better.  Tomlin could have a pro-bowler at every position and he would still come up with new ways to lose.

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5 hours ago, bucksoh said:

Wrong I will always be calling for his head.  The only way is if he gets to the SB and I know that is not gonna happen.  Be lucky to go 8-8.

1 million bucks says the Steelers are better than 8-8 in 2019, we got a bet?

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Just now, ZenoRazon said:

1 million bucks says the Steelers are better than 8-8 in 2019, we got a bet?

How bout a case of beer or twenty bucks money bags!

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2 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

How bout a case of beer or twenty bucks money bags!

Are you telling me you don't have a million bucks, yep, me either...ha~~~

They can go...5-1 in the division. You really thinking this out?

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I wish this thread would just die until next year.  Same characters posting the same thing over and over and obviously nobody is budging.

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1 hour ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I wish this thread would just die until next year.  Same characters posting the same thing over and over and obviously nobody is budging.

Guilty as charged and I am done with it for now.

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How many times has anyone actually read this on the internet......

Roy....Tomlin sucks long and hard.

Joe.....I like him, think he'd great.

Roy.....hell no, they need to dump him.

Joe.....dude, he's never had a losing season.

Roy....really?

Joe...really.

Roy.....you like him, right?

Joe....yep, he's great.

Roy...hmmm?  Ok Joe, you're right and I;m wrong.

 

.....try, never.

 

Edited by ZenoRazon

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26 minutes ago, Elevencents said:

Just stop. 

DAMN!  I did again, sorry.  I keep forgetting to run everything by you for that approval, it won't happen again ...sorry.

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3 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

DAMN!  I did again, sorry.  I keep forgetting to run everything by you for that approval, it won't happen again ...sorry.

Sorry. Out of patience. Take some time off and if you can post where you're not constantly irritating everyone, maybe we can try again. 

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On 1/26/2019 at 5:14 PM, fred_1_15301 said:

This is a really bad look if true.  You just can’t be giving preferential treatment as a coach.  Easiest way to lose respect from the rest of the team.

Really? More talented players get longer leashes than less talented players. I though this was obvious to everyone.

I recall hearing Michael Irvin talk about how he and one of his less talented teammates showed up late to a meeting. Jimmy Johnson said nothing to Irvin but cut the other guy.

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On 1/30/2019 at 1:03 PM, Yenrub said:

Really? More talented players get longer leashes than less talented players. I though this was obvious to everyone.

This is true to a degree.  But AB not having to be in the dorms with the rest of the team at training camp is mind-boggling to me.  I thought training camp, in part, was to form team chemistry - how can that happen if AB is treated so differently from every other person at training camp?

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1 hour ago, GROOT said:

It's time.

A two game losing streak against the defending champs and a perennial powerhouse?  Man, you guys are like Kentucky wildcats fans when they don't make the final 4 every year. They have been great for years and they had massive star power loss.  It happens to every team.  Tomlin is still more competent than a LOT of coaches out there.  You could do worse and likely would if you changed.  Who you gonna upgrade with?

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14 minutes ago, Shutout said:

A two game losing streak against the defending champs and a perennial powerhouse?  Man, you guys are like Kentucky wildcats fans when they don't make the final 4 every year. They have been great for years and they had massive star power loss.  It happens to every team.  Tomlin is still more competent than a LOT of coaches out there.  You could do worse and likely would if you changed.  Who you gonna upgrade with?

2-6 in their last eight games that matter.  

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