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11 minutes ago, Milkman said:

They are all digging in. Damage control. 

I mean, they have nothing to lose this way. Criticizing Goodell is popular, potential domestic violence is not, and if anything else bad ever happens they can say they were on the right side of it. 

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9 minutes ago, Milkman said:

They are all digging in. Damage control. 

:shrug: I'm with him on this.  Doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of some other suspensions.  But, it really doesn't make much difference one way or the other I just hope Hill's son is out of danger whomever the culprit is.

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1 minute ago, Foosball God said:

:shrug: I'm with him on this.  Doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of some other suspensions.  But, it really doesn't make much difference one way or the other I just hope Hill's son is out of danger whomever the culprit is.

Do you know all the evidence Tyreek gave to the NFL?

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2 hours ago, dipandglide said:

lol at anyone who panic sold

Hill might gain some goodwill after this. This whole episode brings into doubt the situation in college. He needs to ditch his baby mama. 

Meh, I don't think you can really blame those people.  If someone gave up a 1st for him a month ago, they would have been ridiculed by 90% of the shark pool.  Things aren't always predictable and this certainly wasn't, so at the time those who traded him probably made the right move.  Sucks for them but that's fantasy football for you.

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6 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

:shrug: I'm with him on this.  Doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of some other suspensions.  But, it really doesn't make much difference one way or the other I just hope Hill's son is out of danger whomever the culprit is.

I would hope/think that there's a very watchful eye on his son now.  Would be shocked if whoever it was, did it again now.

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1 minute ago, Milkman said:

Do you know all the evidence Tyreek gave to the NFL?

Of course not.  I'm not looking to get into a debate about it because neither of us know anything.  I just think it is disingenuous to say that the opinion is simply people refusing to admit they were wrong.  There are far to many unknowns here for the NFL to be sure of anything.  So looking at this within the lens of some of their other personal conduct suspensions isn't just anti-Hill sentiment.

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2 hours ago, mozzy84 said:

I hear you. But compared to say Adams, Hopkins and a few others towards the top last year he could and should be considered inconsistent (none of them had 6 weeks of 13 or less points).   I like hill but I like 5-6 guys more going into this year.

He likely 'should' be taken in between the pumpers and the bashers.  I see him right around WR5 but it seems there's going to be the "told you so" people who gamble on him at wr2 or wr3.  He won't be a 'value' pick this year but I agree he is going to likely be drafted at his ceiling.  He does seemingly have a high season-long floor too though so it wouldn't be a league losing pick.

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3 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

Of course not.  I'm not looking to get into a debate about it because neither of us know anything.  I just think it is disingenuous to say that the opinion is simply people refusing to admit they were wrong.  There are far to many unknowns here for the NFL to be sure of anything.  So looking at this within the lens of some of their other personal conduct suspensions isn't just anti-Hill sentiment.

No you're doing the same thing all the other garbage reporters did when they convicted Hill before they knew anything. We don't know what he gave them. Rumor is it's definitive proof she set him up in 2014. I don't know if that's true but if it is it changes a lot. 

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Just now, Milkman said:

No you're doing the same thing all the other garbage reporters did when they convicted Hill before they knew anything. We don't know what he gave them. Rumor is it's definitive proof she set him up in 2014. I don't know if that's true but if it is it changes a lot. 

OK

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If they find anything on him in regards to this situation they will suspend him immediately. The case is closed but it can be opened at any point. If there is evidence floating around out there it will come to light eventually. 

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3 hours ago, Heisenberg23 said:

By the time late August redraft come both Mahomes and Tyreek will be drafted at their ceiling - no thanks 

ummm.....ok?

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7 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Meh, I don't think you can really blame those people.  If someone gave up a 1st for him a month ago, they would have been ridiculed by 90% of the shark pool.  Things aren't always predictable and this certainly wasn't, so at the time those who traded him probably made the right move.  Sucks for them but that's fantasy football for you.

Nah. Hill moves the needle in ways most can't. You sit, wait, and collect more info before you sell a player like Hill for peanuts. Is there risk doing that? Of course. He was worth that risk.

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1 minute ago, dipandglide said:

Nah. Hill moves the needle in ways most can't. You sit, wait, and collect more info before you sell a player like Hill for peanuts. Is there risk doing that? Of course. He was worth that risk.

If the result was what the majority believed would happen (lengthy suspension), than it would have been a good move.  So many people around here love to criticize people's choices only based on the result.  No one expected no suspension.

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Oh, and stop putting 100% stock into what you hear on the news. If there's one lesson here it's that you should think for yourself and wait for facts before drawing conclusions. 

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Maybe some mainstream news source will come out with an honest article on this instead of just harvesting clicks and outrage. 

 

1 hour ago, trader jake said:

 

1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

It doesn't seem to be getting the mainstream attention it should.

This was a very interesting read and definitely provides a good possible explanation for a lot of things.

I do find it hard to read just how many anonymous sources the author has though.  And it really seems like he is trying to make a big splash and a big name for himself.  Seems way too "look at how important I am and how good my research is" to take overly seriously.  I do agree he could be right, but the writing style is suspect.

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1 minute ago, Deamon said:

If the result was what the majority believed would happen (lengthy suspension), than it would have been a good move.  So many people around here love to criticize people's choices only based on the result.  No one expected no suspension.

Am I surprised there is no suspension? Yes. It looked bad at first glance. If I bought what was being portrayed by the media he would be out of the league for good. That is my point. Chill, let the facts roll in, let the sparkle of the news die down, and let common sense prevail. If you did that, and still wanted to sell, it would've been for more than what he was being sold for right after the news broke. The outlook on Hill's punishment continually improved throughout this entire ordeal. And funny enough, his previous incident in college might come across in a better light after all is said and done. Karma? Maybe. I'll wait for the facts. 

 

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Just now, dipandglide said:

Am I surprised there is no suspension? Yes. It looked bad at first glance. If I bought what was being portrayed by the media he would be out of the league for good. That is my point. Chill, let the facts roll in, let the sparkle of the news die down, and let common sense prevail. If you did that, and still wanted to sell, it would've been for more than what he was being sold for right after the news broke. The outlook on Hill's punishment continually improved throughout this entire ordeal. And funny enough, his previous incident in college might come across in a better light after all is said and done. Karma? Maybe. I'll wait for the facts. 

 

I get that.  But for every time waiting for the facts can increase a guy you're trying to sell's value, there's a situation where it can decrease it.  The odds were against him, people played the odds.  I can't really fault them for that.  The shark move is usually to try to make the right call about a players situation before it happens.  If a guy goes down and is scheduled for an MRI, and you get a sense that it is an ACL tear, then waiting for the facts might hurt you.  We're all here trying to 'make the move before the others' so I don't always agree on waiting it out.  In this case those who did prevailed though, yes.

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Just now, Deamon said:

I get that.  But for every time waiting for the facts can increase a guy you're trying to sell's value, there's a situation where it can decrease it.  The odds were against him, people played the odds.  I can't really fault them for that.  The shark move is usually to try to make the right call about a players situation before it happens.  If a guy goes down and is scheduled for an MRI, and you get a sense that it is an ACL tear, then waiting for the facts might hurt you.  We're all here trying to 'make the move before the others' so I don't always agree on waiting it out.  In this case those who did prevailed though, yes.

It looked terrible at first glance. There wasn't much upside to sell once news broke. The best deals I saw were equivalent to 1st round value (rookie pick). I'll pass unless it was 1.01 or 1.02 (in SFlex) and wait to hear more before selling for nothing. 

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21 minutes ago, Deamon said:

This was a very interesting read and definitely provides a good possible explanation for a lot of things.

I do find it hard to read just how many anonymous sources the author has though.  And it really seems like he is trying to make a big splash and a big name for himself.  Seems way too "look at how important I am and how good my research is" to take overly seriously.  I do agree he could be right, but the writing style is suspect.

 

The writing style really threw me off. It came across like a rage-filled fan blog even as it tried to make the case that it wasn't. Too emphatic, maybe.  

I'm not saying the sources are fake or that the argument it was making was not worth reading.

Just, the way it was written, it didn't come across like investigative journalism or even very professional. 

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

He likely 'should' be taken in between the pumpers and the bashers.  I see him right around WR5 but it seems there's going to be the "told you so" people who gamble on him at wr2 or wr3.  He won't be a 'value' pick this year but I agree he is going to likely be drafted at his ceiling.  He does seemingly have a high season-long floor too though so it wouldn't be a league losing pick.

To be fair most first round (and maybe even second round) picks are drafted at their ceiling.

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Just now, Mr. Peterson said:

I still can’t believe I got this guy in a dynasty for a couple of 5th round picks.  

Wow - see no matter how bad it looked for him that’s just stupid. 5th round picks are basically worthless. The worst trade I saw for him was for a third round pick which I also thought was stupid. Hold and hope if that’s all you can get. In three of my five leagues that’s what the owners did and it worked for them. 

Now at least those who sold for “only” 1st round picks got something potentially valuable at least, even though that now looks cheap - but at the time it may have made sense to those that are risk adverse.

I only had Hill in one league. When this story first broke and it looked very  bad for him, but still before it looked at its very worst (the release of the audiotape), I sold Gurley and Hill for Diggs, Aaron Jones, the 1.07 and Gus Edwards (owned Ingram). I came off back to back Championships - and Hill and Gurley were big parts of that of course - so I just figured shaking things up and not dealing with the headache of Hills “crime” and Gurley’s knee all offseason was worth selling at somewhat of a discount.

I’m still ok with that deal despite it now looking like a loss overall. I like the players I got back and still have one of the stronger teams in the league. I’m probably higher on Jones than most though.

There was no chance I would have given Hill away for a second, third or two fifth round picks though. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Deamon said:

 

 

This was a very interesting read and definitely provides a good possible explanation for a lot of things.

I do find it hard to read just how many anonymous sources the author has though.  And it really seems like he is trying to make a big splash and a big name for himself.  Seems way too "look at how important I am and how good my research is" to take overly seriously.  I do agree he could be right, but the writing style is suspect.

Agreed.  This medium article, combined with the complete lack of punishment or criminal charges from those who investigated (police, child services, NFL, AND doctors/nurses), is what makes me very suspicious of everything we've heard.  It's also highly suspicious that Tyreek denies the 2014 charges he plead guilty to on the full audio without any comment from Espinal.  It strikes me as very strange that Espinal would not dispute what Tyreek is saying about that whole thing being fabricated.  

It's easy to see why Hill would plead guilty to that even if he was innocent - especially since the plea meant no jail time... and if you know anything about trials and the frequency of plea deals in modern criminal justice, it's almost a foregone conclusion.  Would you want to risk having 12 PFT commenters on your jury, or take the guaranteed no jail time and the chance of saving your football career?  IANAL, but If he was guilty and they had pretty good evidence against him, the plea deal offered probably wouldn't have been that friendly.

When you add up everything here, it paints Hill in a different light than the media.  For me, it introduces enough doubt for me to feel terrible about drawing conclusions without having real facts.

 

Edited by kittenmittens
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1 hour ago, dipandglide said:

Oh, and stop putting 100% stock into what you hear on the news. If there's one lesson here it's that you should think for yourself and wait for facts before drawing conclusions. 

If you're making social commentaries, like reporters do, or like we might be doing when we all argue about this stuff on boards like this or elsewhere, yes. 

But when you're in the middle of a huge hand of poker, the rules of the game are literally that you can't possibly know the facts, but are required to act anyway. You may be right that holding was the best move here, but hindsight is the decider on that. Just like after folding a hand and realizing later you would have won if you'd stayed in, there are those of us that felt compelled to bail on Hill, based on the limited (but really powerful) information we had at the time. 

Speaking for myself, I got a lot more than peanuts for selling him, but no question it was at a now realized loss. I took the possibility into account that this would happen and decided I would be ok folding what could have been the winning hand. I feel the measured, marginal fold (of an admittedly really large pot) was better than shipping all my chips and losing. 

Hey @dipandglide I wasn't trying to direct this at you just decided your quote was a good jumping off place.

Otherwise yeah here is me eating crow. I was wrong I'll eat it.

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Any worry he might not be in 100% shape due to the clusterf of the offseason? I am having a hard time not ranking him as a top 10 player for redraft. Migjht just have to go with it. 

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11 hours ago, Fear The Turtle said:

Wonder how much the Chiefs regret their first pick in April?

They added another explosive piece to an explosive offense....I think they are sleeping very well tonight.

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11 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

That's right, they traded away their first round pick (and yes they could surely have used some help on defense) - and thanks.

They traded their first for one of the better pass rushers in the leage....so they did help their defense.

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12 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Any worry he might not be in 100% shape due to the clusterf of the offseason? I am having a hard time not ranking him as a top 10 player for redraft. Migjht just have to go with it. 

Twitter is your friend. He's been training hard all off season......

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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Twitter is your friend. He's been training hard all off season......

So did Josh Gordon and then he came in out of shape, tweaked a musle, etc. I am just running down every angle. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

So did Josh Gordon and then he came in out of shape, tweaked a musle, etc. I am just running down every angle. 

It's a contract year for him too. 

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6 hours ago, Foosball God said:

Of course not.  I'm not looking to get into a debate about it because neither of us know anything.  I just think it is disingenuous to say that the opinion is simply people refusing to admit they were wrong.  There are far to many unknowns here for the NFL to be sure of anything.  So looking at this within the lens of some of their other personal conduct suspensions isn't just anti-Hill sentiment.

:lmao:

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6 hours ago, Deamon said:

If the result was what the majority believed would happen (lengthy suspension), than it would have been a good move.  So many people around here love to criticize people's choices only based on the result.  No one expected no suspension.

This isn’t true....some in here were criticized for their choice before the result because they were making that choice with no details and self righteously convicting him. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Foosball God said:

Of course not.  I'm not looking to get into a debate about it because neither of us know anything.  I just think it is disingenuous to say that the opinion is simply people refusing to admit they were wrong.  There are far to many unknowns here for the NFL to be sure of anything.  So looking at this within the lens of some of their other personal conduct suspensions isn't just anti-Hill sentiment.

You gotta be ####ting me.

90% of you were wrong. End of story.

Edited by matuski
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Some people just can’t admit they were wrong. I also love it when people pretend like this is somehow not good for Tyreek Hill and his draft position / value or ability to produce this year and in the future.....like he just laid around for the last couple of months and ate donuts.  It’s almost like they were dumb enough to trade him away at pennies on the dollar and think talking trash about him on some random internet chat board means anything in terms of actual NFL value and productivity. Just sad and stupid....

Congrats to anyone who held or bought low on Hill. You will be handsomely rewarded. 

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I have a hard time finding any knock on him other than he is a TE.

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god bless aaron copland , hes the embodient of America 

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Did I miss all of apologies to Tyreek from the social justice warriors and keyboard commandos? No? I didn't think so. 

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8 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

If you're making social commentaries, like reporters do, or like we might be doing when we all argue about this stuff on boards like this or elsewhere, yes. 

But when you're in the middle of a huge hand of poker, the rules of the game are literally that you can't possibly know the facts, but are required to act anyway. You may be right that holding was the best move here, but hindsight is the decider on that. Just like after folding a hand and realizing later you would have won if you'd stayed in, there are those of us that felt compelled to bail on Hill, based on the limited (but really powerful) information we had at the time. 

Speaking for myself, I got a lot more than peanuts for selling him, but no question it was at a now realized loss. I took the possibility into account that this would happen and decided I would be ok folding what could have been the winning hand. I feel the measured, marginal fold (of an admittedly really large pot) was better than shipping all my chips and losing. 

Hey @dipandglide I wasn't trying to direct this at you just decided your quote was a good jumping off place.

Otherwise yeah here is me eating crow. I was wrong I'll eat it.

Well said.  I personally don't play dynasty so wasn't affected at all by this, but I really can't fault or throw people under the bus who sold him and are at a loss because of it.  The poker analogy is right, and it sucks that human nature is to obsess over being 'right' to the point of judging a decision based on how something unexpected played out. 

Obviously those who sold for 2 5th rounders shouldn't have done it, I'm not saying give him away for nothing.  But if someone like yourself or Octopus made an assumption based on the news, and a calculated risk by gaining some assets for them, then I applaud those moves even if it didn't work out.

Again, everyone takes risks in fantasy by over drafting a guy, taking a risk on an injured player, starting a guy you have a good feeling about, etc.  Even many of the good decisions at the time, don't work out.  This result was a surprise to the majority.

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In my couple leagues the owners who had hill who are the kinda lazy, don’t do much owners just kept him and didn’t take any offers.   The other two leagues with the active owners sold him for 1st and 2nd round picks.   

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One somewhat hidden winner in this might be Damien Williams.  With Hill as a threat this should keep the defense more spread out...

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Posted (edited)

Has anyone come across a well documented timeline of the events and evidence?

edit- The above link is what I was looking for. Thanks

Edited by dipandglide

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Looks like inactive dynasty owners are the winners here while those who were swayed by posters (here and other forums, FBG rankings, Twitter, etc.) speculating long suspensions or worse and sold cheap are the real losers here. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here.

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5 minutes ago, TDCommish said:

Looks like inactive dynasty owners are the winners here while those who were swayed by posters (here and other forums, FBG rankings, Twitter, etc.) speculating long suspensions or worse and sold cheap are the real losers here. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here.

It works both ways though. If he was suspended indefinitely than those teams would be the losers. There are examples where reading the writing on the wall would have helped active owners (Gordon, Bryant, and maybe Gurley for examples). There’s probably an equal number of examples on both sides.

I don’t think it pays to be inactive but it can pay to be patient. Here it would have. Now we just look forward to the season, and see what happens.

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