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flapgreen

***Chicago Bears Thread*** Coach of the year. AC of the Year. Pace robbed for GM of year

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26 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

3rd season into a rebuild and likely 3rd straight losing season and last in division.  Not acceptable under any circumstances in the NFL. Totally different in baseball. 

I know no one likes to blame a bad season on injuries but I don't care, they make a huge difference.  I'm a firm believer the Bears would have won at least 4 more games if they were close to full strength.  Even with a 3 win season I still see plenty of positives to get me excited for the next season.  I see a defense that is improving and has a great coordinator.  I see an OL that keeps improving.  I see a surprise stud RB.

Upgrade that secondary, keep adding a couple offensive weapons and get a QB.  The QB part is the hardest to fix and will be the key to the Bears success.  They need to draft a QB in the first or second round this year and pray that he can do well in the NFL.

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This season was bad. There were things to see within it and reasons to have some hope but it was a #### show. Any other reaction is just lying to yourself.

The running game showed promise. Howard was undeniably good and while we could use some offensive line reinforcement, I think we could be be competent with a stronger offense overall so the opposing defense isn't so fresh. Our own defense showed some good stuff too. Injuries kept them down but I liked what we could see of the front 7. Our depth is an issue overall though.

We need secondary help like no other, we need a qb and we probably will need additional o-line and wr help if we don't keep Jeffrey. I would personally love to see the Bears take a day 2 QB and lure themselves Tyrod Taylor or even Colin Kaepernick as a stop gap while we see if the draftee works out for us. 1st round Bears could probably just take best player available but secondary should be the priority. Flap keeps saying to try and get Berry, that would be great. If health permits, we have a shot to make a jump next year but we're on very shaky ground with our depth no matter what

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They came out with the all rookie team for the year and the Bears have three players on it.  I'd say that's a pretty successful draft class.

2016 PFWA ALL-ROOKIE TEAM



Offense

QB – Dak Prescott, Dallas Cowboys

RB – Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas Cowboys; Jordan Howard, Chicago Bears

WR – Sterling Shepard, New York Giants; Michael Thomas, New Orleans Saints

TE – Hunter Henry, San Diego Chargers

C – Cody Whitehair, Chicago Bears

G – Joe Thuney, New England Patriots; Laremy Tunsil, Miami Dolphins

T – Jack Conklin, Tennessee Titans; Taylor Decker, Detroit Lions



Defense

DL – Joey Bosa, San Diego Chargers; DeForest Buckner, San Francisco 49ers; Chris Jones, Kansas City Chiefs; Yannick Ngakoue, Jacksonville Jaguars

LB – Jatavis Brown, San Diego Chargers; Leonard Floyd, Chicago Bears; Deion Jones, Atlanta Falcons

CB – Vernon Hargreaves III, Tampa Bay Buccaneers; Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars

S – Karl Joseph, Oakland Raiders; Keanu Neal, Atlanta Falcons



Special Teams

PK – Wil Lutz, New Orleans Saints

P – Riley Dixon, Denver Broncos

KR – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs

PR – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs

ST – Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs

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7 hours ago, gabes1919 said:

This season was bad. There were things to see within it and reasons to have some hope but it was a #### show. Any other reaction is just lying to yourself.

The running game showed promise. Howard was undeniably good and while we could use some offensive line reinforcement, I think we could be be competent with a stronger offense overall so the opposing defense isn't so fresh. Our own defense showed some good stuff too. Injuries kept them down but I liked what we could see of the front 7. Our depth is an issue overall though.

We need secondary help like no other, we need a qb and we probably will need additional o-line and wr help if we don't keep Jeffrey. I would personally love to see the Bears take a day 2 QB and lure themselves Tyrod Taylor or even Colin Kaepernick as a stop gap while we see if the draftee works out for us. 1st round Bears could probably just take best player available but secondary should be the priority. Flap keeps saying to try and get Berry, that would be great. If health permits, we have a shot to make a jump next year but we're on very shaky ground with our depth no matter what

The majority of Bears fans are disgusted.  Some seem to think you should change teams if you're unhappy with the organization.  There wouldn't be many fans left if everyone did that. 

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21 hours ago, KCitons said:

Something I've learned in my line of work. The more people repeat themselves, the greater chance they are lying. They just haven't convinced themselves yet. 

Good thing this is a football message board and not your job. The majority of Bears fans are disgusted with this organization.  No one is lying about it.  Pay attention 

Edited by flapgreen

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No sense in checking into this thread anymore. It's just the same thing every day. 

I'll wait for the 2017 in season thread to start.

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Our draft direction may come down to who we can get via free agency. Would we rather want Tyrod or Glennon and Allen at #3, or whoever the best FA DE is and either Watson or Kiser at #3.

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1 hour ago, 3nOut said:

Our draft direction may come down to who we can get via free agency. Would we rather want Tyrod or Glennon and Allen at #3, or whoever the best FA DE is and either Watson or Kiser at #3.

I really like Tyrod.  Has put up good numbers and is still young and should be a reasonable price.  Draft a qb if they see one they like.  If they don't,  stick with Tyrod and draft one next year.  So much to happen between now and draft.  I really have no idea.  If no qb at 3, then get the best defensive player available. 

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6 hours ago, 3nOut said:

Our draft direction may come down to who we can get via free agency. Would we rather want Tyrod or Glennon and Allen at #3, or whoever the best FA DE is and either Watson or Kiser at #3.

Tyrod and Allen. Or, if the Bears could trade down and get more picks to address their many needs...

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13 hours ago, KCitons said:

No sense in checking into this thread anymore. It's just the same thing every day. 

I'll wait for the 2017 in season thread to start.

What else do you talk about this time of year?  It's going to be a similar discussion again next year most likely.  The Bears will just have a draft pick around 15th instead.

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3 hours ago, RotoLibrarian said:

Tyrod and Allen. Or, if the Bears could trade down and get more picks to address their many needs...

I hope it's Tyrod.  He's the perfect guy right now.  Has put up good numbers.  Mobile guy.  Sat his first few years on bench with Baltimore.  Low miles and now has two good years behind him.  Would allow us to build the rest of the roster while not having to spend the third pick on a qb

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Just now, flapgreen said:

I hope it's Tyrod.  He's the perfect guy right now.  Has put up good numbers.  Mobile guy.  Sat his first few years on bench with Baltimore.  Low miles and now has two good years behind him.  Would allow us to build the rest of the roster while not having to spend the third pick on a qb

He's alright, pretty average.  I would only want him if he's at a good price and a short contract.

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30 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What else do you talk about this time of year?  It's going to be a similar discussion again next year most likely.  The Bears will just have a draft pick around 15th instead.

I think it's a Larry Mayer alias. 

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3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

He's alright, pretty average.  I would only want him if he's at a good price and a short contract.

What makes you say he's average?  

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5 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

I hope it's Tyrod.  He's the perfect guy right now.  Has put up good numbers.  Mobile guy.  Sat his first few years on bench with Baltimore.  Low miles and now has two good years behind him.  Would allow us to build the rest of the roster while not having to spend the third pick on a qb

Pretty much his entire body of work.  I don't see anything spectacular here.  I've also watched him play.  He's not bad but he's not all that good either.  He's just an average QB.

 

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
Career       43 29 14-14-0 530 851 62.3 6257 37 4.3 14 1.6 84 7.4 7.5 11.8 145.5 92.3   83 437 6.23 6.35 8.9 1 2 29
4 yrs BAL     14 0   19 35 54.3 199 0 0.0 2 5.7 25 5.7 3.1 10.5 14.2 47.2   5 33 4.15 1.90 12.5     1
2 yrs BUF     29 29 14-14-0 511 816 62.6 6058 37 4.5 12 1.5 84 7.4 7.7 11.9 208.9 94.2   78 404 6.32 6.55 8.7 2 3 28
2011 22 BAL   2 3 0   1 1 100.0 18 0 0.0 0 0.0 18 18.0 18.0 18.0 6.0 118.7 8.56 2 3 5.00 5.00 66.7     0
2012 23 BAL   2 7 0   17 29 58.6 179 0 0.0 1 3.4 25 6.2 4.6 10.5 25.6 62.3 68.8 3 30 4.66 3.25 9.4     1
2013 24 BAL   2 3 0   1 5 20.0 2 0 0.0 1 20.0 2 0.4 -8.6 2.0 0.7 0.0 56.02 0 0 0.40 -8.60 0.0     0
2014 25 BAL   2 1 0   0 0   0 0   0   0       0.0   1.74 0 0           0
2015* 26 BUF QB/wr 5 14 14 7-6-0 242 380 63.7 3035 20 5.3 6 1.6 63 8.0 8.3 12.5 216.8 99.4 67.84 36 212 6.79 7.10 8.7 1 2 13
2016 27 BUF QB 5 15 15 7-8-0 269 436 61.7 3023 17 3.9 6 1.4 84 6.9 7.1 11.2 201.5 89.7 68.2 42 192 5.92 6.07 8.8 1 1 15

 

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I also see that a lot of people are interested in the Bears getting Glennon.  There's another mediocre QB.  I don't see why people want to sign more blah QBs when the Bears already have their own.  Plus, Tyrod and Glennon are going to cost more than what Hoyer is costing them.

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Looks pretty good to me.  2015 Pro Bowl and a 3/1 in td/int ratio in his first 2 years starting.  Hard to ever find anyone that good on the open market.  Hoyer is freaking horrible. Tyrod has a big arm,  makes smart decisions,  and is very mobile. 

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Hoyer

Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD
Average 8 7   179 284   2026 12   4                 14 102          
Per 16 Games 128 112   2864 4544   32416 192   64                 224 1632        
2015-2016 HTX,CHI 17 14 6-8-0 358 569 62.9 4051 25 4.4 7 1.2 64 7.1 7.4 11.3 238.3 93.7   29 203 6.43 6.74 4.8    

Tyrod

Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD
Average 14 14   256 408   3029 18   6                 39 202          
Per 16 Games 224 224   4096 6528   48464 288   96                 624 3232  
2015-2016 BUF 29 29 14-14-0 511 816 62.6 6058 37 4.5 12 1.5 84 7.4 7.7 11.9 208.9 94.2   78 404 6.32 6.55 8.7    

 

I honestly don't see a huge difference here other than Tyrod can run.

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Since I've seen a lot of people that like Glennon here are his career stats.

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
Career       21 18 5-13-0 374 630 59.4 4100 30 4.8 15 2.4 85 6.5 6.4 11.0 195.2 84.6   56 405 5.39 5.28 8.2 3 3 11
2013 24 TAM QB 8 13 13 4-9-0 247 416 59.4 2608 19 4.6 9 2.2 85 6.3 6.2 10.6 200.6 83.9 48.04 40 314 5.03 4.98 8.8 2 2 7
2014 25 TAM qb 8 6 5 1-4-0 117 203 57.6 1417 10 4.9 6 3.0 41 7.0 6.6 12.1 236.2 83.3 53.57 16 91 6.05 5.74 7.3 1 1 4
2016 27 TAM   8 2 0   10 11 90.9 75 1 9.1 0 0.0 13 6.8 8.6 7.5 37.5 125.4 96.7 0 0 6.82 8.64 0.0     0

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3 hours ago, flapgreen said:

I hope it's Tyrod.  He's the perfect guy right now.  Has put up good numbers.  Mobile guy.  Sat his first few years on bench with Baltimore.  Low miles and now has two good years behind him.  Would allow us to build the rest of the roster while not having to spend the third pick on a qb

Tyrod would be fine, but I agree he's just average, and not really much of an improvement over what we have. Just not a guy that's going to lift the team to the next step, but a fine place holder if that I the way they go.

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So you think Hoyer and Tyrod are similar qbs, Hawkeye? 

Edited by flapgreen

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39 minutes ago, msommer said:

If Tyrod was the answer to anything he would probably not be run out of BUF

That's a broad statement about one team that isn't always accurate. 

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25 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

So you think Hoyer and Tyrod are similar qbs, Hawkeye? 

No.  I think they are very different QBs that are both average to below average.  I do think Tyrod offers more but not for the price it's going to take.  Hoyer is a stop gap for cheap right now.  Tyrod would be offering the same thing but for more money.  What's the point in spending more money?  Maybe Tyrod helps the Bears win 8 games instead of 7?

The main goal for me right now is getting the next franchise QB on the team through the draft and just have an average guy start so the rookie doesn't have as much pressure.  This is going to take a year or two to find that young guy to start.

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

No.  I think they are very different QBs that are both average to below average.  I do think Tyrod offers more but not for the price it's going to take.  Hoyer is a stop gap for cheap right now.  Tyrod would be offering the same thing but for more money.  What's the point in spending more money?  Maybe Tyrod helps the Bears win 8 games instead of 7?

The main goal for me right now is getting the next franchise QB on the team through the draft and just have an average guy start so the rookie doesn't have as much pressure.  This is going to take a year or two to find that young guy to start.

It's relative.  Bears have a bunch of cap space.  That's not an issue.  If Tyrod gives them a better chance to won and a qb they like isn't available at 3,  you should sign Tyrod,  if you like him and he's a reasonable price.  Hoyer isn't winning 7 games. 

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1 minute ago, flapgreen said:

It's relative.  Bears have a bunch of cap space.  That's not an issue.  If Tyrod gives them a better chance to won and a qb they like isn't available at 3,  you should sign Tyrod,  if you like him and he's a reasonable price.  Hoyer isn't winning 7 games. 

Why can't Hoyer win 7 games?  What makes you think Tyrod can win more with the Bears?  Unless some key players get added to the team and some current players really improve this is not going to be a playoff team next year.  

I'm not completely against getting Tyrod or Glennon or even Romo but it all depends on what it takes to get them.  I'm not willing to give up any draft picks and I'm not paying close to what they are playing Cutler.  If they are able to get one of them as a FA and sign them to a 2 year deal for around $12 million a year.  Right now Tyrod and Romo are averaging $18 million, no thank you.  Hoyer is getting $2 million.  I'd rather use all of the money they have to add to get positions and build depth.  Their franchise QB is not in the NFL yet.

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I'm saying I'd rather have Tyrod at 6 mil  per than Hoyer at 2. I think he's by far the superior qb.  Hoyer blows.  Puts up occasional good stats.  Plays scared and is not mobile.  Been in league for years.  We know who he is.  Keeping Hoyer would just be admitting we're fine with continuing to lose.   Hoyer didn't win #### last year and has been a below average qb since entering the league. 

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24 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

I'm saying I'd rather have Tyrod at 6 mil  per than Hoyer at 2. I think he's by far the superior qb.  Hoyer blows.  Puts up occasional good stats.  Plays scared and is not mobile.  Been in league for years.  We know who he is.  Keeping Hoyer would just be admitting we're fine with continuing to lose.   Hoyer didn't win #### last year and has been a below average qb since entering the league. 

Tyrod at $6 million?  Hell yeah I'd be on board with that.  Too bad he's getting $18 million a year now.  There are other teams interested in him too so he won't come cheap.

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8 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What else do you talk about this time of year?  It's going to be a similar discussion again next year most likely.  The Bears will just have a draft pick around 15th instead.

I think you misunderstood my statement. I can't take 6 months of Flapgreen #####ing and moaning every time someone posts. 

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3 hours ago, flapgreen said:

That's a broad statement about one team that isn't always accurate. 

Well they have two years of film + practices to inform their decision.

YMMV obviously

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57 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Tyrod at $6 million?  Hell yeah I'd be on board with that.  Too bad he's getting $18 million a year now.  There are other teams interested in him too so he won't come cheap.

Right.  That's where I think we we're misunderstanding each other.  15 mil or so. No way 

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23 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I think you misunderstood my statement. I can't take 6 months of Flapgreen #####ing and moaning every time someone posts. 

Join into the discussion bro.  We're here. 

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30 minutes ago, msommer said:

Well they have two years of film + practices to inform their decision.

YMMV obviously

Plenty of teams make mistakes.  Maybe they don't want to pay him 18 million 

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2 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Join into the discussion bro.  We're here. 

I made my suggestions a while back. I get that your unhappy with the team, the owners, etc. I think everyone knows that. Often times I pass by this thread even when there are new posts. 

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I personally don't think we could get Tyrod for anything less than 12 mil which I would personally be ok with. He has the potential to be a franchise player and the Bears could use 2 shots at that type of QB (one relatively cheap in FA and one in the draft). We'll also be able to be rid of Royal this year too right? I'd like to see them go out and snag someone like Kendall Wright cheap, another talented player who fell out with his team and has the potential to be a value. And they need to make some serious acquisitions at corner and safety. Lie, cheat, steal, do whatever you have to do to get someone who can perform. Pace has done an ok job in FA, Tevaithan, Freeman, and McPhee were all good by me if you ignore the injuries that were unpredictable. Miller, Royal, and Rolle were misses but I can take a few lumps with those good signings.

Oh and Hoyer is not a good QB. Serviceable back up and nothing else. The teams he played against this year were terrible on defense and that's why he looked like a star when he started. Being better than Cutler is a weak standard at this point. Cannot and will not forget his meltdown in the playoffs for the Texans.

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I don't think any team is getting Tyrod for less than $13 million a year.  If he truly is an above average QB that can lead a team then that's a great deal.  If he's just another QB that comes and goes in the NFL then it's just too much.

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I've been wrong plenty but I don't think Tyrod will get anything close to 12 or 13

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If Cutler,  Houston,  and Royal are released,  we'll have between 87 and 90 million in space. 

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59 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

If Cutler,  Houston,  and Royal are released,  we'll have between 87 and 90 million in space. 

They're going to need all of it too if they want to sign guys like Berry.  Plenty of teams are in need of a QB so I can't imagine Tyrod going for too cheap.  If guys like Fitz and Brock can get their deals Tyrod will get a decent amount as well.

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1 hour ago, 3nOut said:

Fantasy football-type trade: Cutler and #3 overall for #1 overall.

I can't imagine why we would do this unless some QB gets super hyped in the senior bowl and combine. None of the QBs are projecting as early round 1 if they will be round 1 at all. Plus I can't imagine the Browns want Cutty. I would love if someone traded up to the 1 or 2 above us and took a QB, better talent falls to us then.

As for Taylor, I'm basing that 12 mil on Fitz last year. Obviously that was a mistake but the cost of a starting caliber and proven QB should be markedly higher than a guy like Glennon who is talented but largely a gamble. Plus the Browns will supposedly be bidding it up because it'll take a whole hell of a lot of money to make someone want to play there

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1 hour ago, 3nOut said:

Fantasy football-type trade: Cutler and #3 overall for #1 overall.

Wouldn't that be awesome.  Would take a second and a third or 2 4ths to move to 1

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9 minutes ago, gabes1919 said:

I can't imagine why we would do this unless some QB gets super hyped in the senior bowl and combine. None of the QBs are projecting as early round 1 if they will be round 1 at all. Plus I can't imagine the Browns want Cutty. I would love if someone traded up to the 1 or 2 above us and took a QB, better talent falls to us then.

As for Taylor, I'm basing that 12 mil on Fitz last year. Obviously that was a mistake but the cost of a starting caliber and proven QB should be markedly higher than a guy like Glennon who is talented but largely a gamble. Plus the Browns will supposedly be bidding it up because it'll take a whole hell of a lot of money to make someone want to play there

There will be multiple qbs doing in round 1. At least 3. Probably 4

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So now it comes out that the Bears blocked Fangio from going to San Francisco.  Now we know what the rift was between Fangio and Fox.  OLB coach jetted.  Fangio tried to leave.  That John Fox sure us respected by his staff.  Smh

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

So now it comes out that the Bears blocked Fangio from going to San Francisco.  Now we know what the rift was between Fangio and Fox.  OLB coach jetted.  Fangio tried to leave.  That John Fox sure us respected by his staff.  Smh

Are you insane??? You are trying hard as hell to make something out of NOTHING. Yes Clint Hurtt's contract was up and he decided to leave, he was never a Fox/Fangio guy in the first place and I'm not even sure it's that big of a loss, sure as hell couldn't teach our rookie olb to keep his damn head up when he's running through traffic. You are freaking out over a position coach.

Second, NO ####### way should the bears have allowed Fangio to interview with the 49'ers for a lateral move. What do you think any team in the league would say if we called and asked to interview their OC for the same position. They'd laugh in our face. 49'ers heard the same rumors of disagreement and decided to see how true they were and if we'd be willing to get rid of Fangio if we didn't have to pay him. Well we aren't.

on top of that, had we let him interview you'd be in here calling the bears a loser organization that just let our only good coach go to the 49'ers for nothing and you'd call Fox an idiot.

note, per league rules we couldn't have blocked him from interviewing for a hc position.

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1 hour ago, The Tick said:

Are you insane??? You are trying hard as hell to make something out of NOTHING. Yes Clint Hurtt's contract was up and he decided to leave, he was never a Fox/Fangio guy in the first place and I'm not even sure it's that big of a loss, sure as hell couldn't teach our rookie olb to keep his damn head up when he's running through traffic. You are freaking out over a position coach.

Second, NO ####### way should the bears have allowed Fangio to interview with the 49'ers for a lateral move. What do you think any team in the league would say if we called and asked to interview their OC for the same position. They'd laugh in our face. 49'ers heard the same rumors of disagreement and decided to see how true they were and if we'd be willing to get rid of Fangio if we didn't have to pay him. Well we aren't.

on top of that, had we let him interview you'd be in here calling the bears a loser organization that just let our only good coach go to the 49'ers for nothing and you'd call Fox an idiot.

note, per league rules we couldn't have blocked him from interviewing for a hc position.

I wouldn't call it insane.  I would call it realistic.  Vic wanted out.  Bears won't let him out.  Maybe open your eyes wider and take your head out of the sand.   Keeping a guy here who doesn't want to be here. 

You sound clueless on Hurtt.  Floyd made the all rookie team. Outstanding year and achieved far more than anyone expected. Bashing Hurtt for Floyd tackling wrong.  Smh.  You a coach or something? Hurtt was the reason Floyd flourished and you're harping on poor tackling form. Now you're saying he's not a Fox guy and probably not a big loss?   Are you even watching the same team?  You can't be that out of touch with what happened last year.  At least I don't think anyone could be... Get with me next year after the entire coaching staff is gone and give me another excuse or tell me to move on from what just happened.  That's what I expect to happen.  Save the post.  I'll answer for it if I'm wrong. 

Edited by flapgreen

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