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flapgreen

***Chicago Bears Thread*** Perennial Failures.

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New Orleans not looking very "Saintly" with the Meredith offer.

I really like Meredith, but 2/10 with 5.4 guaranteed?  I knew we'd match Packers Fuller offer.  I'm not sure about this one.

 

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I'd be shocked if the Bears don't match.  WR core goes right back to shaky if it's just Robinson and Gabriel as your presumably competent receivers.

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On 3/14/2018 at 1:43 AM, ZWK said:

The Meredith decision seems most befuddling - why not spend a million more to give him a second round tender ($3M)? He is surely worth that much, and now in order to keep him they're probably going to have to pay him more than that to match his offer sheet.

 

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5 minutes ago, ZWK said:

 

This is what the Vikings did with Nick Easton, 2nd round tender. Perhaps overpaying him but at least they haven't been fighting off other teams with deep pockets.

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Don't think there is any way they match this if Pace has any idea what he's doing.  They didn't deem him to be worth 3M for one year a couple months back, if they pay him 10M for 2 now they look like a bunch of dumb asses.

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No brainer. Match easily. This is exactly why they put a low round tender on him. 

Edited by flapgreen
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6 hours ago, ZWK said:

 

Nope.  No one was making an offer to him with a 2nd round tender. By using an original round tender, now they pay him 3 million more this year to have him at 5 million for next year. If he has a big year as WR2 this year, he would've cost them 10 million next year and an even longer term contract if no one made him an offer.  Now they can get out after 2 years if it doesn't work out.  Pace put a late rounder tender on him hoping someone would sign him to an offer sheet so they could get him for a reasonable price for more than one year. Pace was probably hoping someone would offer him 3 years.   The Bears have plenty of cap space and this was exactly what Pace was hoping for.  Since Cam was coming off an injury, they got him for a very reasonable price. 

Edited by flapgreen

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7 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

I'd be shocked if the Bears don't match.  WR core goes right back to shaky if it's just Robinson and Gabriel as your presumably competent receivers.

Yep

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Not to get too far ahead but if they match the offer then we would expect Arob and Gabriel on the outside with Meredith in the slot, right? Generally?

With a competent ground game and if Burton can be what they brought him to be that could be a formidable offense. 

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10 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Nope.  No one was making an offer to him with a 2nd round tender. By using an original round tender, now they pay him 3 million more this year to have him at 5 million for next year. If he has a big year as WR2 this year, he would've cost them 10 million next year and an even longer term contract if no one made him an offer.  Now they can get out after 2 years if it doesn't work out.  Pace put a late rounder tender on him hoping someone would sign him to an offer sheet so they could get him for a reasonable price for more than one year. Pace was probably hoping someone would offer him 3 years.   The Bears have plenty of cap space and this was exactly what Pace was hoping for.  Since Cam was coming off an injury, they got him for a very reasonable price. 

Adding on, if Meredith is legit and proves it this year, the Bears have ample time to work out a reasonable long term deal, as opposed to being forced to overspend if he became a UFA after this year.

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Pace nailed this one too. Very reasonable contract for a LT who's getting better every year. Top half of the league now at LT, if not top 10.

Charles Leno Jr. has improved as a pass blocker in each of the past three seasons https://t.co/dMUtMi0LsP

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On 4/7/2018 at 10:24 AM, flapgreen said:

Pace nailed this one too. Very reasonable contract for a LT who's getting better every year. Top half of the league now at LT, if not top 10.

Charles Leno Jr. has improved as a pass blocker in each of the past three seasons https://t.co/dMUtMi0LsP

Boy, I remember when many Bear's fans hated him.  I'm pretty sure I've seen you call the OL trash numerous times the last two years.

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5 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Boy, I remember when many Bear's fans hated him.  I'm pretty sure I've seen you call the OL trash numerous times the last two years.

Oh I hammered Leno. Boy was I off on that one. He has really come along well. 

But I never thought the OL was trash. That's crazy. The guard and center play has been great.  Leno settled in last year. Massie blows. I wouldn't mind them getting Mcglinchey in the first. 

Edited by flapgreen
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Bear's are letting Meredith go to the Saints.  I'm kind of surprised by this but it looks like they were concerned about his injury last year.  Looks like WR is back to being a priority in the draft again.

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Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Bear's are letting Meredith go to the Saints.  I'm kind of surprised by this but it looks like they were concerned about his injury last year.  Looks like WR is back to being a priority in the draft again.

I personally think the Meredith love was a little overblown, he was a project with a good half season coming off a knee injury.  Great story, localish guy, and looked like he may have had some promise, all that being said I would have liked to see if he could have taken the next step.  I think Pace completed crapped the bed with how he handled this, for 1M more he was probably guaranteed to stay with us, or worse comes to worse we get a pick, now he's gone for nothing.  Love to see how some of the Pace fans here explain how this was expertly handled.

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Just now, The Tick said:

I personally think the Meredith love was a little overblown, he was a project with a good half season coming off a knee injury.  Great story, localish guy, and looked like he may have had some promise, all that being said I would have liked to see if he could have taken the next step.  I think Pace completed crapped the bed with how he handled this, for 1M more he was probably guaranteed to stay with us, or worse comes to worse we get a pick, now he's gone for nothing.  Love to see how some of the Pace fans here explain how this was expertly handled.

At first I thought Pace handled it fine and they would sign him after the Saints offer.  Now I'm not sure.

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I'm flabbergasted. Biggest mistake of Pace's career. Absolutely no reason to let him walk. 

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11 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

I'm flabbergasted. Biggest mistake of Pace's career. Absolutely no reason to let him walk. 

Maybe his early medicals aren't where they want the to be? Maybe Nagy didn't envision him as a major player in the offense? Those would be 2 good reasons right there.

Its also fair to ask if Meredith was anything special before the injury. He had a nice half season 1 coach and 3 QBs ago, add a major knee injury, and I'm not sure why the Saints were all that interested. Is Meredith better than Snead, who looked even better in 2016? 

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

I'm flabbergasted. Biggest mistake of Pace's career. Absolutely no reason to let him walk. 

Pace will have an amazing career if this is to be considered his biggest mistake.  I like Meredith.  He's a fan favorite but that doesn't make him anything extra special.  To be honest, no one really knows for sure how good he actually is.

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You could see this coming a mile away.  

The Bears simply underestimated Meredith's value. To me, the obvious thing to do with a guy like Meredith (who isn't proven, but has shown quite a bit of upside) is to play it safe & tag him with a 2nd round tender. Nobody is going to give up a 2nd for Meredith so you essentially get him for a bargain 1-year deal. If Meredith turns out to be a gem, you don't mind paying him in 2019.

Pace tried to play the system & got burned.

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48 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Maybe his early medicals aren't where they want the to be? Maybe Nagy didn't envision him as a major player in the offense? Those would be 2 good reasons right there.

Its also fair to ask if Meredith was anything special before the injury. He had a nice half season 1 coach and 3 QBs ago, add a major knee injury, and I'm not sure why the Saints were all that interested. Is Meredith better than Snead, who looked even better in 2016? 

First, two other teams with very conservative medical staffs wouldn't have sent him an offer if his medicals were bad.  Secondly, Meredith is a great fit for his offense moving around, especially when the wr core is very shallow.   They kept Sims at 6 million as the TE3 who absolutely sucks, but then let one of their homegrown WRs walk yet again when they had the money. Idiotic decision. The Jets and Saints made him an offer because they think highly of him.  Meredith was most definitely emerging as a good WR.  Even if he wasn't in their eyes, his price was very reasonable and they have the space and a very shallow wr core.  Pace ####ed this one up. No way around it.  I won't belabor it anymore. It's done now. 

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As I said, befuddling.

If they didn't want Meredith back then they could've at least done a sign-and-trade deal, at the $2.9M second round tender.

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3 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

You could see this coming a mile away.  

The Bears simply underestimated Meredith's value. To me, the obvious thing to do with a guy like Meredith (who isn't proven, but has shown quite a bit of upside) is to play it safe & tag him with a 2nd round tender. Nobody is going to give up a 2nd for Meredith so you essentially get him for a bargain 1-year deal. If Meredith turns out to be a gem, you don't mind paying him in 2019.

Pace tried to play the system & got burned.

He didn't get burned. Apparently, he just didn't want him very bad. Dumb

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10 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Pace will have an amazing career if this is to be considered his biggest mistake.  I like Meredith.  He's a fan favorite but that doesn't make him anything extra special.  To be honest, no one really knows for sure how good he actually is.

Pace isn't perfect. He's made plenty of mistakes. This is one of his biggest.  The rest of the offseason has been very good, except for keeping Sims. 

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1 minute ago, flapgreen said:

He didn't get burned. Apparently, he just didn't want him very bad. Dumb

Oh I think Pace valued Meredith, he just underestimated the rest of the league's interest in him.

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2 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Oh I think Pace valued Meredith, he just underestimated the rest of the league's interest in him.

Valued him but didn't want to pay him 5 million, which is less than his 3rd TE? That's hard to believe.  Now if Robinson goes down, we're right back where we started. 

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Pace said going into last year Cam was his #1 WR. The following year after an injury,, he doesn't want him. So full of #### 

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:lmao: Can't let Meredith block Kevin White's path. They declined to pay him what they paid that garbage Steeler WR (don't even remember the dude's name) last year.

The Bears didn't just need a WR1. They needed a 2 and arguably a 3. Really don't understand the move. Even if it takes time in 2018, not like they'd be paying through the roof for 2019. (Not to mention low guarantee if it doesn't work out)

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1 hour ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

:lmao: Can't let Meredith block Kevin White's path. They declined to pay him what they paid that garbage Steeler WR (don't even remember the dude's name) last year.

The Bears didn't just need a WR1. They needed a 2 and arguably a 3. Really don't understand the move. Even if it takes time in 2018, not like they'd be paying through the roof for 2019. (Not to mention low guarantee if it doesn't work out)

While I'm not exactly counting on it, I wouldn't rule out Kevin White with an actual offensive coach. Health is obviously his biggest issue, but he showed some ability in 2016 before he got hurt. 

They really seem to be thinking Taylor Gabriel is a #2 WR it appears. I feel like Meredith was expendable, because Gabriel is going to play the slot, and there is zero evidence Meredith can play outside, so they didn't wanna pay 5 million for essentially a backup. That may not be how a lot of fans saw it, but I think that is how the team saw it.

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4 years $26 million seems like a lot for a WR like Gabriel.

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4 hours ago, flapgreen said:

I'm flabbergasted. Biggest mistake of Pace's career. Absolutely no reason to let him walk. 

umm, at this point I'm pretty sure glennon counts as the biggest mistake of pace's career...

eta: Meridith starts stacking pro bowls and I'm willing to revisit this stance.

Edited by The Tick
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No, no...  Hiring Fox was the biggest mistake of Pace’s career.

Don’t need Meredith.  Move on.

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4 hours ago, travdogg said:

While I'm not exactly counting on it, I wouldn't rule out Kevin White with an actual offensive coach. Health is obviously his biggest issue, but he showed some ability in 2016 before he got hurt. 

They really seem to be thinking Taylor Gabriel is a #2 WR it appears. I feel like Meredith was expendable, because Gabriel is going to play the slot, and there is zero evidence Meredith can play outside, so they didn't wanna pay 5 million for essentially a backup. That may not be how a lot of fans saw it, but I think that is how the team saw it.

Lol WAAAT? Meredith isn't a damn backup. He plays all over the field. Extremely versatile.  You would think Gabriel is a slot guy but he played very little slot in Atlanta. They just payed that goof Wheaton 6 million last year to catch like 1 pass. They kept Sims on the roster this year for 6 million as the 3rd freaking TE. But hey paying 5 million to your homegrown receiver is just not worth it according to Pace. Freaking idiot! 2nd straight WR the Bears drafted that he let walk FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  What a moron! 

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3 hours ago, The Tick said:

umm, at this point I'm pretty sure glennon counts as the biggest mistake of pace's career...

eta: Meridith starts stacking pro bowls and I'm willing to revisit this stance.

The Glennon signing didn't really affect the team in any way, except for the cap lost for one year.  They just let their #1 WR going into last year walk for nothing. Even if they draft a WR high, which wasn't necessary, they are one injury away from Bellamy playing 40 snaps a game again. This is just a bone headed freaking move by Pace when it was completely unnecessary. 

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3 hours ago, -X- said:

No, no...  Hiring Fox was the biggest mistake of Pace’s career.

Don’t need Meredith.  Move on.

Wrong. You have 2 WRs. One just coming off an ACL. Another who's largely unproven and has been with multiple teams. 

I don't country White or Bellamy because they're not really WRs. 

Edited by flapgreen
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4 hours ago, travdogg said:

While I'm not exactly counting on it, I wouldn't rule out Kevin White with an actual offensive coach. Health is obviously his biggest issue, but he showed some ability in 2016 before he got hurt. 

They really seem to be thinking Taylor Gabriel is a #2 WR it appears. I feel like Meredith was expendable, because Gabriel is going to play the slot, and there is zero evidence Meredith can play outside, so they didn't wanna pay 5 million for essentially a backup. That may not be how a lot of fans saw it, but I think that is how the team saw it.

White is a nobody now. 3 straight hurt years. No way he's as fast as he was coming out. He was already raw when he was drafted. Now he's pretty much just sat around for 3 years.  He turned into a pumpkin long ago. 

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Great job paying Wheaton and Sims more than you would Meredith, Pace. Brilliant freaking idea. I hope someone kicks his ### walking to his car tomorrow. 

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36 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Lol WAAAT? Meredith isn't a damn backup. He plays all over the field. Extremely versatile.  You would think Gabriel is a slot guy but he played very little slot in Atlanta. They just payed that goof Wheaton 6 million last year to catch like 1 pass. They kept Sims on the roster this year for 6 million as the 3rd freaking TE. But hey paying 5 million to your homegrown receiver is just not worth it according to Pace. Freaking idiot! 2nd straight WR the Bears drafted that he let walk FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  What a moron! 

Gabriel will be the slot guy. Atlanta had Sanu, who is almost an H-Back masquerading as a WR. Of course Sanu played in the slot. 

I'm not defending Sims or Wheaton, neither of those guys ever looked like more than depth players, and were very questionable signings at the time, especially Sims because at least Wheaton had the argument he was behind good players. I would also agree that letting Jeffery go for nothing was a terrible move. That said, non of those moves should have any bearing on Meredith. No team should make a move because they think its less bad than something else. 

I don't see Meredith as anything special. He had a decent year in 2016, but that's all it was. Just decent. The guy had 4 games over 75 yards, all coming in games where the Bears got off script, for whatever reasons, and threw 40+ times. He also had 5 games under 30 yards. On top of that, he is coming off a major injury, and needs to learn a new offense, with a new QB. This isn't letting an elite player like Jeffery go, this is letting a role player go for a price they didn't deem him to be worth, and I can totally see where they are coming from, though I may have tendered him at the 2nd round level. I doubt I'd have matched the Saints offer that's for sure. 

Honestly, I think Meredith falls into a similar boat as Kendall Wright. I'd have liked to keep him, but don't really care that he's gone. I'm a lot more upset about dumping a Pro Bowl G in Josh Sitton(and yes, keeping Sims) than I am about any other moves.

30 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

White is a nobody now. 3 straight hurt years. No way he's as fast as he was coming out. He was already raw when he was drafted. Now he's pretty much just sat around for 3 years.  He turned into a pumpkin long ago. 

That is your opinion, and you may be correct. I wasn't saying White is going to all of a sudden play like a top-10 overall pick. What I said was, perhaps with an offensive minded coach, he can become a contributor, and that Nagy might think he can salvage a recent top-10 overall pick, and that plus, price, and other WR additions, may have led them to view Meredith as expendable.

That said, I'm expecting a day 2 pick at WR, maybe Pace/Nagy have a prospect they really like in that area, and wanted to open a spot for them, who knows?

ETA: I hope you are feeling more positive tomorrow or whenever, you've kinda been the optimist of this thread.

Edited by travdogg
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18 hours ago, flapgreen said:

Lol WAAAT? Meredith isn't a damn backup. He plays all over the field. Extremely versatile.  You would think Gabriel is a slot guy but he played very little slot in Atlanta. They just payed that goof Wheaton 6 million last year to catch like 1 pass. They kept Sims on the roster this year for 6 million as the 3rd freaking TE. But hey paying 5 million to your homegrown receiver is just not worth it according to Pace. Freaking idiot! 2nd straight WR the Bears drafted that he let walk FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  What a moron! 

Meredith was an undrafted free agent that cost the Bears next to nothing.  They are not out much.  The Wheaton deal was bad but he's gone so it doesn't matter now.

I'm curious if they were more concerned about his knee than NO was.

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22 hours ago, Dez said:

4 years $26 million seems like a lot for a WR like Gabriel.

I don't think it's too bad when you look at the contracts of all the other WRs.  There are 30 WRs getting paid more than him right now.

I was hoping the Bears would keep Inman.  I thought he played well for the Bears.

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16 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't think it's too bad when you look at the contracts of all the other WRs.

Its brutal, imho. Especially compared to Cam.

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On 4/11/2018 at 11:04 PM, flapgreen said:

Wrong. You have 2 WRs. One just coming off an ACL. Another who's largely unproven and has been with multiple teams. 

I don't country White or Bellamy because they're not really WRs. 

Meredith also coming off of a blown ACL, as you well know.  Would you rather have Robinson or Meredith?  You don’t even need to answer that.

Don’t need him.  They’ll draft a WR or two, so settle down, Beavis.

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On 4/11/2018 at 11:10 PM, flapgreen said:

YOU SUCK, PACE! 

:lmao:  Dude, you need to go play some Madden, draft and run your own version of the Bears as you see fit.  Bears will never do everything any of us plebs want.  Ever.

Edited by -X-
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10 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Meredith was an undrafted free agent that cost the Bears next to nothing.  They are not out much.  The Wheaton deal was bad but he's gone so it doesn't matter now.

I'm curious if they were more concerned about his knee than NO was.

Exactly.  Meredith was more or less a bum, who unexpectedly had a good 4-5 games at the end of 2016.  So he’s gone now.  Big f’n deal.

Jeffery was good until BMarsh left, then he fell off substantially with all the BS injuries.  Glad he got a ring with Philly, but he was garbage the last two seasons before he left.

Edited by -X-

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38 minutes ago, -X- said:

Here you go, flapper:

http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/nfl-draft-wide-receivers-chicago-bears-anthony-miller-christian-kirk-james-washington-cedrick-wilson-dj-moore

I like Kirk’s game vids.  Haven’t seen the others, but Miller and Wilson are being touted as semi-sleeper picks on NFLN.

Miller could be less durable than white....

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