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Dynasty ppr top 20 for 2017 (1 Viewer)

fruity pebbles

Footballguy
I tend to value youth more than many and id rather trade a guy a year too early vs a year too late. I made this list based on trade value, ie in a vacuum id trade the guy at 12 for the guy at 13 etc.

1. Odell

2. Evans

3. Zeke

tier break

4. Cooper

5. DJ

6. Bell

tier break

7. Antonio

8. Julio

9. Hopkins

10. Arob

11. Gurley

tier break

12. Watkins

13. Cooks

14. Green

15. M Thomas

16. K Allen

17. TY

18. Dez

tier break

19. Melvin

20. Landry

I kept it to 20 to encourage others to post their list

 
According to you he is but I couldn't trade him this past season without getting robbed because he's such a diva. Arrow pointing down

 
He has come down even at #1. He was in a tier to himself, almost unaquirable. Now hes come back to the pack. I recently tried to purchase him and the price was Julio and the 1.05 rookie pick, which i passed on. Hes still worth a boatload in most leagues.

 
DJ not in first tier?  Arob still top 10?  Otherwise like your list a lot.
Yeah, i still have faith in Arob. Id still have a hard time taking anyone ranked below him in a deal. DJ i figured would be polarizing. Its an age thing for me. He came in as an old rookie. Unfortunately, that makes him 26 during next season. 

 
Small gap between the players above and below. Have Odell, Evans and Zeke very close for example. The fourth player Amari is a little ways below those three etc.
Ok. At what point would you consider the players to be a WR or RB 2 in fantasy?

Are all of the players you listed capable of being top 12 at their position in fantasy? Are some of them not?

 
Yeah, i still have faith in Arob. Id still have a hard time taking anyone ranked below him in a deal. DJ i figured would be polarizing. Its an age thing for me. He came in as an old rookie. Unfortunately, that makes him 26 during next season. 
I get it.  Got burned bad by Arob this year so he's way down on my list.  I know he's young and the physical tools but just can't get that bad taste out of my mouth.

 
Ok. At what point would you consider the players to be a WR or RB 2 in fantasy?

Are all of the players you listed capable of being top 12 at their position in fantasy? Are some of them not?
Id say the tier break at 18/19, specifically at WR. RB a little different since there are so few young good ones. Gordon is a #1 on most teams, i just dont like him long term as much as some. 

 
Id say the tier break at 18/19, specifically at WR. RB a little different since there are so few young good ones. Gordon is a #1 on most teams, i just dont like him long term as much as some. 
Yeah at RB if you are downgrading David Johnson for being age 26 now applied equally to all RB would cause most of them to not be considered a long term prospect as historical evidence shows some decline in RB career on average after age 25.

I do think you need to value the positions differently as even a top RB usually can only stay on top for 2 seasons of their career. There are few that do better than that.

I do think Johnson is one of those players and I wouldn't downgrade him at all due to age. He is especially valuable in a PPR format. He might not get 120 targets in a season again, but he is likely a lock for 100 targets, which is right up there with the WRs in terms of opportunity without even considering the rushing stats. When it comes to Johnson I think as a coach I would rather call a pass play to him than a run play, because the reward is consistently greater.

Based on this perspective, the tier break at Gordon and Landry is likely a bigger drop than the previous tiers. 

Personally I think top 12 players should be perhaps 30 to 40 deep overall as there are 24 spots available, not every player can or will make it year to year, but going into a season there are that many who could.

For the top 24 (or top 48) there should likely be 80 players or so who could do that.

For the top 35 (or top 72) there should be 140 or more players that would qualify for that

This is how I have been trying to define or quantify tiers. Everyone does something different with tiers through.

 
I don't see how you can look at their usage and targets this year and not have DJ and Bell at the top in a ppr league.  They were getting targets equal to a top 10 WR plus all the carries.   No Wr has their floor and upside, IMO.  Their floor was 15pts/g this year, and too many WRs, even the studs drop 5 and 6 pt games.  I am guessing a lot of championship teams had Bell, DJ. or Zeke on them. 

ETA:  Just saw that we are talking dynasty, but not sure that changes my answer a ton.  Would maybe bump down Bell a few spots, but I think people get way too focused on age in dynasty.  I usually look more at 3-4 year windows.  Rarely do we keep players for their whole careers. 

 
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I don't see how you can look at their usage and targets this year and not have DJ and Bell at the top in a ppr league.  They were getting targets equal to a top 10 WR plus all the carries.   No Wr has their floor and upside, IMO.  Their floor was 15pts/g this year, and too many WRs, even the studs drop 5 and 6 pt games.  I am guessing a lot of championship teams had Bell, DJ. or Zeke on them. 
I think the three above them have more longevity. Hard to project a RB past 27-28 years old. Sure some have gone past that but their trade value drops to near nothing. Even a number of great pass catching backs (Tomlinson, Faulk) had their last big season at 28 years of age. I dont project DJ much past 2-3 more years of top production. Think his trade values drops even before that. Bell has suspension and destination questions that make me more comfortable with the guys ahead of him. Its not like im ranking these guys out of the top 10. I still like them a lot, just like the guys ahead of them better long term.

 
I started working on a list. Its not easy.

I think one of the trade offs is what a player can do for your team NOW compared to what the player can do for your team for their whole career.

While I can see having Cooper ahead of DJ and Bell based on the long term outlook of their careers, Cooper has not made as much of a difference for a team that has him as either of those RB have. I think a lot of people would take 2 seasons of what Bell and Johnson have been doing over 8 seasons of what Cooper has been doing.

At some point the long term value wins out, but the number one goal should still be to win this season. Because of this I shorten the outlook to the next 3 seasons when comparing RB to WR value. If it is WR to WR then I will look 5 years ahead. This makes for different rankings depending on what I am comparing each player to and kind of difficult to reflect that in one list.

 
I started working on a list. Its not easy.

I think one of the trade offs is what a player can do for your team NOW compared to what the player can do for your team for their whole career.

While I can see having Cooper ahead of DJ and Bell based on the long term outlook of their careers, Cooper has not made as much of a difference for a team that has him as either of those RB have. I think a lot of people would take 2 seasons of what Bell and Johnson have been doing over 8 seasons of what Cooper has been doing.

At some point the long term value wins out, but the number one goal should still be to win this season. Because of this I shorten the outlook to the next 3 seasons when comparing RB to WR value. If it is WR to WR then I will look 5 years ahead. This makes for different rankings depending on what I am comparing each player to and kind of difficult to reflect that in one list.
Cooper is tough because he got dinged and faded down the back half of the season, just like his rookie year.

But the first half of this year when he was healthy he WAS a difference maker.  In his first 8 games he had 130+ receiving yards and 20+ points in PPR in half of his games.  If people believe he can complete the 104rec for 1557yds pace he was on for the first half of the year then he should definitely be ranked up there.  If we think he's going to be more of a perennial 80-1100 type guy then yeah, 8 seasons of that isn't exactly ground breaking.

He's an interesting case.

 
Alright so here is a quick attempt at a longer list.

I was not able to stick completely to the way I want to tier the players as doing that would require 3 year projections which I haven't done yet and that always takes quite a bit of time.

The tiers I do have are tier one, which are the players who have proven they can repeat top 12 seasons aside from Elliot who only has one so far in his career. Tier two has players who have had at least one top 12 season but may be getting older, or have injury or other concerns that may prevent them from doing so again. So in a sense the top 2 tiers have top 12 upside, but tier one players are more likely to, or carry less baggage.

Tier 3 players are those that can and have had top 12 seasons before, but are old and might not do so again, I expect these players to be more RB/WR two (top 13 to 24) than I would expect them to be top 12 is the main difference between tier 3 and tier two.

Tier four are players who I don't really think have top 12 upside, but are still valuable and could produce multiple RB/WR two (13 to 24) or RB/WR seasons in the next few years.

Tier one

Odell Beckham
David Johnson
Ezekiel Elliot
Mike Evans
LeVeon Bell
Antonio Brown
Julio JonesAmari Cooper
AJ Green
TY Hilton
Brandin Cooks

Tier two

DeAndre Hopkins
Sammy Watkins
Dez Bryant
Javis Landry
Michael Thomas
Keenan Allen
DeMarius Thomas
Allen Robinson
Todd Gurley
Melvin Gordon
Devonta Freeman
Doug Baldwin
Lamar Miller
Jordan Howard
Jay Ajayi

Tier 3

Stefon Diggs
Julian Edelman
Jordy Nelson
LeSean McCoy
DeMarco Murray
Devantae Parker
Golden Tate
Mark Ingram
Michael Crabtree
Kelvin Benjamin
Devantae Adams
Corey Coleman
Alshon Jeffrey
John Brown
Randall Cobb
Jamison Crowder
Larry Fitzgerald
Jordan Matthews
Donte Moncrief
Josh Doctson
Sterling Shephard
Derrick Henry
Theo Riddick
Giovani Bernard

Tier four

Tyrell Williams
LeGarratte Blount
Allen Hurns
Mohammed Sanu
Emmanuel Sanders
Eric Decker
Marvin Jones
Willie Snead
Thomas Rawls
Tyler Lockett
Kevin White
Kenneth Dixon
Devontae Booker
Dion Lewis
Spencer Ware
Jeremy Maclin
Carlos Hyde
Bilial Powell
Isaiah Crowell
Tevin Coleman
Duke Johnson
CJ Anderson
CJ Prosise
Adam Thielen
Jacquizz Rodgers
TJ Yeldon
Tavon Austin
Terrelle Pryor
Devin Funchess
Tyler Boyd
Laquon Treadwell
Malcolm Mitchell
Breshard Perriman
Cole Beasley
Will Fuller
Paul Perkins
DeAndre Washington
Leonte Carroo
Jerrick McKinnon
James White
DeSean Jackson
Charles Sims
Jeremy Hill
Tajae Sharpe

I am sure I forgot about quite a few guys. Tell me who you think they are and where would you rank them?

I could definitely see breaking up tier four some more, but this is how far I got so far.

 
DJ not in first tier?  Arob still top 10?  Otherwise like your list a lot.
+2. No way he should be in the top 10. Bit saying he can't rebound but this season needs to drop him out of all rankings.

Actually, I am also saying he can't rebound. I think two years ago was a fluke.

 
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Zeke

obj

dj

bell

brown

Evans

julio

nuk

cooper

adams

green

Watkins

gurley

thomas

gordon

dez

freeman

allen

baldwin

d Henry 

quick list

 
If your "dynasty ppr" rankings differs from your "dynasty ppr of the next 3 years" list then you are likely doing it wrong

 
If your "dynasty ppr" rankings differs from your "dynasty ppr of the next 3 years" list then you are likely doing it wrong
Explain.

I think everyone has a different way of doing this.

If you are going to claim that one method is wrong, at least tell us why.

The above list is not based on projections, and if it were there are likely to be some differences, in terms of the exact order the players would be ranked.

The original list is based on how FP would draft them, or what player he would trade for the players ahead of them. That is not the same thing as a projections based ranking at all.

I tried to follow FP method in putting together my list as well as I can, but often there isn't a clear answer or choice between players. It would depend on a lot of other factors which player I actually prefer. I consider players listed in the same tier to be somewhat interchangeable for similar value, but that isn't based on any projections of objective methodology.

I could make several different kinds of dynasty rankings based on different evaluations and methodology. None of these would be the same and none of them are "wrong" they are what they are based on.

 
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If your "dynasty ppr" rankings differs from your "dynasty ppr of the next 3 years" list then you are likely doing it wrong
This is hyperbole.  

Or do you have Drew Brees ranked ahead of Andrew Luck in dynasty?  Jordy Nelson ahead of Mike Evans?

 
Odell Beckham
Mike Evans
David Johnson
Ezekiel Elliott
Le'Veon Bell

Julio Jones
Amari Cooper
Sammy Watkins
DeAndre Hopkins
Antonio Brown
A.J. Green
Todd Gurley

T.Y. Hilton
Alshon Jeffery
Allen Robinson
Dez Bryant
Melvin Gordon
Keenan Allen
Michael Thomas
Brandin Cooks

I am surprised that Alshon Jeffery hasn't made anyone else's top 20. Even in a down year with QB troubles, he was still on pace for 1095 receiving yards.

 
I am surprised that Alshon Jeffery hasn't made anyone else's top 20. Even in a down year with QB troubles, he was still on pace for 1095 receiving yards.
I am not sure if Jeffrey is with the Bears next season or what his future outlook is. So that makes it kind of hard to rank him.

 
Gronkowski suspiciously missing from all lists. 
I didn't do any TE.

He would be tier one.or tier two depending on ones risk tolerance. He would be the first TE I would want although I could see Reed and Kelce in a similar tier I would have Gronk tier one with Reed and Kelce tier two. Maybe Graham should be tier two also, but he will be 31 next season Gronk and Kelce will be 28 and Reed 27 which is a pretty big difference.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
This is hyperbole.  

Or do you have Drew Brees ranked ahead of Andrew Luck in dynasty?  Jordy Nelson ahead of Mike Evans?
No, I don't think that was hyperbole on his part. Dynasty rankings IMO should never look less than a minimum 3+ year time frame (with the emphasis being on the next 3 years, not the + thereafter). And few who use those parameters would ever swap Brees for Luck or Nelson for Evans straight up.

 
I think you could be successful for awhile using redraft rankings. Those get updated every year. A reasonable person with a redraft ranking and a list of player ages should be able to avoid making huge mistakes with some basic understanding of player career arcs.

I would love to hear what the right way to do this might be, or what most people consider to be the right way to do it. I do not think there is a standard or proven best practice for creating rankings for dynasty. From my experience there are about as many different opinions about how to create rankings as there are owners.

 
I think you could be successful for awhile using redraft rankings. Those get updated every year. A reasonable person with a redraft ranking and a list of player ages should be able to avoid making huge mistakes with some basic understanding of player career arcs.

I would love to hear what the right way to do this might be, or what most people consider to be the right way to do it. I do not think there is a standard or proven best practice for creating rankings for dynasty. From my experience there are about as many different opinions about how to create rankings as there are owners.
In all fairness I have seen people do this and win the league championship, although that is the exception rather than the rule. And usually there was not a whole lot of attention paid to player ages. You can win with an Over-The-Hill-Gang roster, but at some point it crashes and burns and you have to do almost a complete rebuild.

 
No, I don't think that was hyperbole on his part. Dynasty rankings IMO should never look less than a minimum 3+ year time frame (with the emphasis being on the next 3 years, not the + thereafter). And few who use those parameters would ever swap Brees for Luck or Nelson for Evans straight up.
That was really confusingly worded. The guy's point was that anything beyond 3 years should be completely discarded. That is if you were doing rankings for a league that was only going to operate for 3 years your rankings would be the same as for a league that was going to continue indefinitely. I can't tell if you're agreeing with that or countering it. 

 
That was really confusingly worded. The guy's point was that anything beyond 3 years should be completely discarded. That is if you were doing rankings for a league that was only going to operate for 3 years your rankings would be the same as for a league that was going to continue indefinitely. I can't tell if you're agreeing with that or countering it. 
That is not how I interpreted it. Perhaps the OP can clarify his post.

 
That is not how I interpreted it. Perhaps the OP can clarify his post.
The three year window qualifier is simply a question of statistical significance. Compare current rankings to those of 2014, or last year's to 2013, etc etc. The lists are completely different between comparison years, and to me are too random to base roster decisions on.

(this is even taking into account player value inertia, ie ranking someone high because he was ranked high in the past, and perhaps ignoring actual production expectations. This is a different topic though)

 
Cooper is tough because he got dinged and faded down the back half of the season, just like his rookie year.

But the first half of this year when he was healthy he WAS a difference maker.  In his first 8 games he had 130+ receiving yards and 20+ points in PPR in half of his games.  If people believe he can complete the 104rec for 1557yds pace he was on for the first half of the year then he should definitely be ranked up there.  If we think he's going to be more of a perennial 80-1100 type guy then yeah, 8 seasons of that isn't exactly ground breaking.

He's an interesting case.
I was pretty shocked to see him so high after being pretty even with Crabtree for the second year in a row, but I hadn't noticed those splits. However, if you look at it, it was the whole team. Carr and Crabtree both had similar dips in production in the 2nd half. Carr was on pace for 4642/34/6 when Cooper was on pace for 160/104/1557/4. During that span, Crabtree was on pace for 150/94/1138/12. Oakland was just on fire for the first half of the season... kind of a rising tide lifts all boats type of deal. 

 
gianmarco said:
Gronkowski suspiciously missing from all lists. 
I considered putting gronk on, ar15 as well, Rodgers as well. If I were on the clock in rd 2 I'm not sure I can pull the trigger on gronk. I would take some time to think about it for sure. 

I know Rodgers or any qb here may go against the grain, but for dyno I'll happily take a guy who should remain in the top 5 discussion for another 8 years. 

 
In all fairness I have seen people do this and win the league championship, although that is the exception rather than the rule. And usually there was not a whole lot of attention paid to player ages. You can win with an Over-The-Hill-Gang roster, but at some point it crashes and burns and you have to do almost a complete rebuild.
Yeah I don't consider it ideal. I do think there is more to this than just paying attention to career arc.

I am just playing devils advocate to say that you can use multiple different methods and be successful. I do not want to say any way of approaching this is wrong or worse than another, a lot of that just comes down to the owner. 

A good owner will be successful in their leagues even using a sub optimal evaluation method while a bad owner armed with all the tools in the world is still a bad owner unable to get the full benefit of the information available to them.

Now anyone playing dynasty for awhile will make observations and learn some things that they will apply to dynasty focused rankings as they do I think. even if that is just in their head.

A relatively hardcore player may have more of a short term perspective on player value similar to daily leagues and can keep up with all of the players well enough that I don't think they are at a distinct disadvantage compared to owners using long term valuation strategies. In some ways that owner has an advantage by focusing a lot more on the now than what their players at that time will be worth 3 or more years from now, which still has zero value in helping you win your league this season.

 
Back when I did my own rankings, I did something that I think everyone still misses the boat on and is a big part of the reason why it's difficult to rank after the first round or two - especially where to fit aging, but productive players.  Most people who do rankings build one list and rank order every player, giving weight to things like productivity, youth, situation, etc.  The problem with this approach (and therefore with all dynasty rankings) is that you're using a cookie-cutter weight for "youth" for example, that might not apply to all players. Different players are auditioning for different roles on your team, and should be evaluated based on their fit for that role, not against each other.  Let me explain:

Your dynasty team has maybe three types or "roles" at each position: your "starter(s)", your "backup(s), and the guys you hope will develop into one of those roles.

Your starters are the guys you expect to plug into your lineup week in and week out.  If you're lacking one, you're looking for one.  You're weighing current production and situation  with an eye toward long-term stability and scoring ceiling most heavily when evaluating these players.  If your whole roster could be filled with them, then you win fantasy football.  Unfortunately it can't, but you should rank players at each position for how well they meet this role.

Your backups are players who perhaps lack in one or more of those categories mentioned above for starters, particularly long-term stability or scoring ceiling.  Your number one priority with these players is expected production, should you have to start them due to injury or bye week.  You should rank all players based on meeting your criteria for this role - weighing current production far higher than any other criteria - including age.

The guys you hope will develop should have their own rankings with things like age, long-term potential, measureables, maybe the age or situation of players ahead of them in the depth chart being more highly weighted than current production or short-term situation.

If you rate all players 1-10 based on say, production, age, measureables, offensive system, short-term potential, and long-term potential, you can identify the players that best fit your current team structure and need by simply applying different weights to each category's contribution to your final assessment.  Now, granted, all of the best players (starters) will rise to the top of pretty much every list no matter how you weight things - that's why they are studs.  It becomes very interesting when you realize you need one backup WR and a developmental WR you can then make very informed choices about who to go after and how much to pay.

So, I guess what I'm saying with all this rambling is that we should really consider three different rankings when talking about dynasty - otherwise we're comparing a lot of apples to oranges and it's of limited value.

 
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Judging by these rankings, Michael Thomas is going to be the most overhyped player in fantasy this offseason. If I owned him, I'd be looking to cash that chip in if this is how he's valued. 

 
J3RSD3V1L I think you make a good suggestion about different roles that players will fill on your roster and how player roles will change over time, from developmental guys, to back ups, to starters. A developmental player could move to the starter or back up category, depending on how well they do when they get opportunity. Some developmental players have more upside than others, while others may seem more likely to develop, but maybe only develop to being a back up or spot starter, but not really become a player in starter category. The back ups are a mix of veteran players who have already reached their ceilings (and so unlikely to move into the starter category) or younger players who haven't arrived yet.

Evert tear there would be a shift of players from these 3 categories. The only category a player wouldn't return to is the developmental group. Either they develop into a back up or starter or they don't pan out at all.

As far as rating the players on a 1 to 10 scale in specific categories, I think that could be a good way to do it. What I would like to do before trying that is to identify the categories that are important. For some players these things may be different. I am looking for different skills out of RB than I am WR for example, so there may be some separate categories to consider for the RB position that would not matter for a WR and the reverse of that.

Such rankings would be based on the cumulative ratings that are used for each player. It would tell us that, but it still would not necessarily be tied to projections, which is the main weakness I see with ranking by these methods. Not that projections are accurate, they often are not, but that seems to be the way to try to quantify things like how a player fits with a particular teams offensive system, and the supporting cast around that player, should lead to some type of projection for that player, the players upside projection and what an average projection for that player might be.

While it is a lot of guesswork on my part, I have been ranking rookie prospects based on 3 wide tier categories of players that have top 12 potential, players who are more RB/WR twos in fantasy (13-24) and then a third tier of players who upside would be a RB/WR two but most likely only a RB/WR three (ranked 25-36 at their position). While this is different than your starter, back up, developmental categories, there is some similarity. The only question is if you would consider a tier two player a starter or a back up. A lot of the time that isn't really clear. Some weeks they are just back ups, but the right match up or other situation (injuries to normal starter for example) that causes them to become starters for awhile, then perhaps moving back to the back up category after the situation shifts again (starter returns to the line up meaning reduced role for the back up)>

Another way I have been thinking about organizing the players and ranking them would be based on consistency. I have alluded to this somewhat, but it could be made more concrete, that players who have two successful seasons I consider to be more proven than players who only have one good season. I think there are some diminishing returns on this. A player having five good seasons doesn't make them much more consistent than a player who has had two or three good seasons, but having two is important as that eliminates the possibility of a fluke season, when a player has shown they can repeat good performance. The flip side of this of course is that players with many successful seasons are getting old by that point and those performances may be behind them, or they may decline from that soon.

A ranking based on this would not tell us what the players are projected to score in 2017 either, but since this would have a bit more of a NFL performance basis, I think this gets a bit closer to a projection and perhaps would be a more useful ranking than the subjective gun to the head process of I would take this player over this player, even though they are close.

 
Judging by these rankings, Michael Thomas is going to be the most overhyped player in fantasy this offseason. If I owned him, I'd be looking to cash that chip in if this is how he's valued. 
Yeah I touched on this a bit as I made the same observation.I will have to give that more thought as I think I did rank him too high. 

As I was mentioning in post above, it would make a big difference for me and I think a lot of folks to see Thomas do well in a second season. There is always the possibility he does not improve on his numbers from his rookie season. There could be other reasons why his production might fall short of what he did as a rookie.

As Thomas only has one good season so far, he would be in the same category as other players who only have one good season, except he would be ahead of players who have more than one season in the NFL but only one good season, because he hasn't had any down years yet.

A player who has two good seasons and is not old should likely be ranked ahead of Thomas at this point though.

I don't think what Thomas did was a fluke at all, but this would be the main reason to rank him lower, and behind players who have proven more but still young. This is why I would have Cooper ahead of Thomas for example.

 
there's potential for change in a lot situations..

A few QB situations up in the air, Several backfieds, including the Jets,Bills,Ravens, Possibly pittsburgh, Cleveland, Indy, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Dever, KC, Oak, SD, Philly, Giants, Washington, Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Saints, Tampa Bay, Carolina, San Fran, Seattle.

WR's retiring like Steve Smith. It's a mess right now heading into the new league year. My best advice is to have soft rankings right now but keep them fluid thru free agency. then tighten them up before the rookie draft  and again after the draft and keep an eye on a fe top undrafted free agents and where they sign, is the team fit right, is there opportunity to maybe make the53 man squad at some point. 

 
J3RSD3V1L I think you make a good suggestion about different roles that players will fill on your roster and how player roles will change over time, from developmental guys, to back ups, to starters. A developmental player could move to the starter or back up category, depending on how well they do when they get opportunity. Some developmental players have more upside than others, while others may seem more likely to develop, but maybe only develop to being a back up or spot starter, but not really become a player in starter category. The back ups are a mix of veteran players who have already reached their ceilings (and so unlikely to move into the starter category) or younger players who haven't arrived yet.

....

A ranking based on this would not tell us what the players are projected to score in 2017 either, but since this would have a bit more of a NFL performance basis, I think this gets a bit closer to a projection and perhaps would be a more useful ranking than the subjective gun to the head process of I would take this player over this player, even though they are close.
Here's a link to my QB rankings from the last year I did them.  These are from just prior to the 2010 season I believe.  You can see the categories that I thought were important at the time.  What I would then do is sort based on what role I was evaluating.  My starter "rankings" came from top-sorting "Risk-Adjusted Base Value".  If I had a player ranked highly using this sort for each "starter role" (1QB, 2RB, etc.) then I could comfortably go after a backup that was high on an "upside only" sort.  If my starter was lower on the "Risk-Adjusted Base Value" I might have gone after more back-up(s) that rated highly on that sort before filling out my roster using the "upside sort".

For example, you'll see in these rankings that going into 2010 I really liked Michael Vick as a backup QB due to his upside, but didn't want to rely on him as my #1 starter due to the risk.

 
Interesting and thanks for sharing.

The way I read this is there are two categories you rank them by, opportunity and talent. You have 3 different categories for each of these two things which are listed as N, N+1, N+2 what are each of these supposed to represent? Is N the current season? Then N+1 would be the following season, and N+2 two seasons from N? Or does this represent something else? 

What determines the risk value?

It looks like you have a age based sliding scale that modifies player rating. The largest bonus I see a player getting for age is 5.02 while some players are subtracting as many as 10. I see more negative modifiers than positive ones. Generally it isn't a good thing to be a young QB as most of them don't start putting up good numbers until they have been playing awhile.

 
Interesting and thanks for sharing.

The way I read this is there are two categories you rank them by, opportunity and talent. You have 3 different categories for each of these two things which are listed as N, N+1, N+2 what are each of these supposed to represent? Is N the current season? Then N+1 would be the following season, and N+2 two seasons from N? Or does this represent something else? 

What determines the risk value?

It looks like you have a age based sliding scale that modifies player rating. The largest bonus I see a player getting for age is 5.02 while some players are subtracting as many as 10. I see more negative modifiers than positive ones. Generally it isn't a good thing to be a young QB as most of them don't start putting up good numbers until they have been playing awhile.
Yes, N is current season, N+ represent following seasons.  Risk value was a single number representing my own interpretation of their current situation, injury history, drugs.  Looking back, I think a better term would be confidence - or how confident I would be in their performance projections, accounting for external factors beyond talent.

The age rating was directly derived from their age and an age "cutoff" based on position.  In QB's case, it was 34.  Bear in mind the spreadsheet you're looking at updates this rating automatically, so it's showing Kerry Collins as he is today at 44 years old with a negative 10.  Tom Brady (now at 40) has roughly -5 whereas Matt Stafford (now at 29) is one of the youngest players on this list scoring a positive 5.  The spread from 22 years-old to 40 years old is essentially 12 points down to -5 or so.  I wasn't too concerned about articulating how "well" a QB performs at a young age because their performance metrics are baked in elsewhere.  If their performance was great AND they were 22 y.o. at the time, that would be worth more than a 25 y.o. or 27 y.o. with the same performance, due to the age difference.

 
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That would be amazing if Kerry Collins was still playing at 44.

A QB putting up big numbers at an early age does make them exceptional players. A lot of the time the situation has a lot to do with this as well. For the most part you would rather be starting QB when they are in their peak years though. Consider Ben Roethlisbergers early career compared to what he is doing now for example.

Thanks for the explanation of my other questions.

 
That would be amazing if Kerry Collins was still playing at 44.

A QB putting up big numbers at an early age does make them exceptional players. A lot of the time the situation has a lot to do with this as well. For the most part you would rather be starting QB when they are in their peak years though. Consider Ben Roethlisbergers early career compared to what he is doing now for example.

Thanks for the explanation of my other questions.
I think we could spend a ton of time debating the merits of my values or the baked in formulas here and find better ones.  I'd love to have the debate over whether a middle age QB with the a given level of performance is inherently more valuable than a younger QB putting up the same numbers, for example.

However, for the purpose of this discussion, my real point is that singular dynasty rankings, while fun, are flawed.  There needs to be a way to evaluate the players based on those roles of starter, backup, and developmental player.  I think a great example in favor of that argument is an examination of Michael Vick on that spreadsheet I shared.  While Michael was highly rated in most categories, he came with a very high risk factor - so much so that he was pretty far down the list when sorted for starters, but high on the list when sorted for backups.  That season he went on to be the #3 scoring QB for anyone who was willing to take a calculated risk.

Vick would have been WAY down the list of any dynasty QB rankings that season (I presume, I can't remember and haven't looked for a 7 year old dynasty ranking list), so anyone referencing that list wouldn't have acted on him.  But anyone using a list sorted this way would have been all over Vick, once they'd secured a starter.

 
Timing the market is hard and any probability model is going to introduce some flaws along with some insight or trends. The game involves a lot of luck so paying attention to trends can be a way of improving your odds, recognizing that there will always be an exception to what usually happens. I think you look at each player separately as well. How do you see that player fitting into a career productivity curve? Knowing when most players at a position will peak can help inform decisions such as when to trade for or trade a player away. Who to draft and in what order (the rankings).

Instead of just throwing darts blindfolded though, we can look at things such as the teams recent performance to form some sense of a projection for a player in that offense, with that supporting cast. The opportunity and situation are a big part of this, so I see your opportunity category taking into consideration things like team stats and what a players role with their team is, or is projected to be. 

You are using a 1 to 10 rating of this (perhaps some other things, not sure what all goes into that for you) where I would prefer to use a 3 year average as the basis for a team projection, then player projections from that. Your method is a lot easier to complete than mine which is a process that for me is always in flux and I never really consider done. Projections will often be very wrong, but the process of making them helps me dig deeper into each team and hopefully gain some better understanding of which players are starters, which are back ups, which are prospects. The outcome helps me quantify the value of players which at least helps me identify players that are of similar value to each other, if my projections are not really off anyways.

On that point I usually like to project an upside and downside for players, which would fit into the upside only category you have, where I may draft a player based on their ceiling instead of the more conservative median range projection.

The talent category could be based on things like their draft position, college performance, combine data. What data would you use to measure talent for veteran players however? When these things perhaps become meaningless to how the player has developed and performed in the NFL since being drafted, or do we just carry those data points forward for the players career? How are you measuring talent?

There is one philosophy that the creme rises to the top, so a completely talent based ranking should be quite a bit different than a opportunity or situation based ranking. The perspective of the talent based ranking does sort out starters from back ups in the sense that if you had player A and player B on the same team, which of those players is the most talented of the two? Which player will earn more playing time than the other, just based on the relative talent level. Some times this is very clear, often times it is not, as players competing for playing time may be of similar talent or ability. Some players have holes in their skill set and only suited for specific roles or for specific types of offenses.

For rookie players I am often focused on the talent based rankings over situation, at least until those players have been in the league a few seasons (like 3) when I am mostly only focused on what they have done in the NFL so far.

An exception to this for me would be Sammy Watkins, who I am still very high on based on pre NFL draft evaluation and what I have seen from him at times in the NFL. He hasn't produced as well as expected. Part of that is because of injuries, which can happen to anyone, part of it is because of the situation with Rex Ryan conservative run based offense. Watkins has shown me enough to think he will reach his potential, but in retrospect I likely should have downgraded him more than I did based on opportunity or his situation in Buffalo. It has been 3 seasons, maybe I should let the early evaluation go. However Watkins is only 24 years old. Rex is gone some hope of an offense that might be friendlier to Watkins, and if he stays healthy I could still see him performing at a WR 1 level in 2017 and make everyone forget about the missed games. This is more of a gut call on my part based on the talent of Sammy Watkins, rather than sticking to a methodology which I know will tell me to downgrade Watkins based on what he has done so far compared to his peers.

 
Timing the market is hard and any probability model is going to introduce some flaws along with some insight or trends. The game involves a lot of luck so paying attention to trends can be a way of improving your odds, recognizing that there will always be an exception to what usually happens. I think you look at each player separately as well. How do you see that player fitting into a career productivity curve? Knowing when most players at a position will peak can help inform decisions such as when to trade for or trade a player away. Who to draft and in what order (the rankings).

Instead of just throwing darts blindfolded though, we can look at things such as the teams recent performance to form some sense of a projection for a player in that offense, with that supporting cast. The opportunity and situation are a big part of this, so I see your opportunity category taking into consideration things like team stats and what a players role with their team is, or is projected to be. 
I'm sure there are a thousand ways of improving my individual ratings.  I think there is a ton of merit to what you are saying about looking at the team output and using those outcomes to drive a portion of an "opportunity" or "situation" metric for an individual.  What is the 3 year average for WR1 on the Colts?  What about WR2?  I think a person can make some very informed adjustments to their ratings (whatever they are) using data driven partially by these numbers in conjuction with evaluations of the individual's overall talent.  This would be particularly useful in evaluating players who are moving (either team-to-team or up the depth chart).

You are using a 1 to 10 rating of this (perhaps some other things, not sure what all goes into that for you) where I would prefer to use a 3 year average as the basis for a team projection, then player projections from that. Your method is a lot easier to complete than mine which is a process that for me is always in flux and I never really consider done. Projections will often be very wrong, but the process of making them helps me dig deeper into each team and hopefully gain some better understanding of which players are starters, which are back ups, which are prospects. The outcome helps me quantify the value of players which at least helps me identify players that are of similar value to each other, if my projections are not really off anyways.

On that point I usually like to project an upside and downside for players, which would fit into the upside only category you have, where I may draft a player based on their ceiling instead of the more conservative median range projection
Back when I was doing this, I was only playing in one league, so adding complexity resulted in diminishing returns.  The work I was putting in was so far beyond what others in my league were doing (and the results pronounced) that I didn't need to take it much further.  All of my 1-10 ratings were from my own gut and not drawn from any further analysis.  I'm sure the outcomes would be improved the more real world numbers were used to derive any of the ratings.  One nice thing about this particular system is that I didn't use "projections" at all when rating these players, though I'll admit that some form of projecting was taking place when evaluating talent and opportunity, the goal wasn't to determine who would score the most points in season N or N+1.  FWIW, I think that ultimately strengthened the outcomes here in this particular methodology.

The talent category could be based on things like their draft position, college performance, combine data. What data would you use to measure talent for veteran players however? When these things perhaps become meaningless to how the player has developed and performed in the NFL since being drafted, or do we just carry those data points forward for the players career? How are you measuring talent?

There is one philosophy that the creme rises to the top, so a completely talent based ranking should be quite a bit different than a opportunity or situation based ranking. The perspective of the talent based ranking does sort out starters from back ups in the sense that if you had player A and player B on the same team, which of those players is the most talented of the two? Which player will earn more playing time than the other, just based on the relative talent level. Some times this is very clear, often times it is not, as players competing for playing time may be of similar talent or ability. Some players have holes in their skill set and only suited for specific roles or for specific types of offenses.

For rookie players I am often focused on the talent based rankings over situation, at least until those players have been in the league a few seasons (like 3) when I am mostly only focused on what they have done in the NFL so far.
At the time, I was measuring talent with my eyes on most everything you've mentioned above.  Data for veteran players would take into everything previously mentioned, plus a small adjustment based on production to date or what I'd seen with my eyes against NFL level talent.  This piece was done in my head, but the one rule that I always kept in mind was that talent doesn't "go away".  Opportunity changes, but talent doesn't change much without injury or something else substantial.  So I generally tried not to adjust the talent ratings by much, regardless of performance.  If someone wasn't living up to their potential it was likely their surroundings or something besides talent holding them back, so opportunity was far more likely to get adjusted before talent.

You are 100% correct about a talent ranking being different than an opportunity-based ranking.  The trick would be to have a way of weighting them so that they make sense - then we'd have the ability to pre-emptively select a Tyreek Hill over a Chris Conley (but don't sleep on Conley now!) because maybe if we have talent and opportunity balanced just right, one of them would have popped out differently during the offseason.  No system is ever going to be 100% accurate, of course, but all we really need is something that is more effective than what our opponents are doing.  I pretty much agree that after some time in the NFL it may be effective to focus on "what have you done" more so than any original talent evaluation, though I would argue that if you're doing a good job maintaining your opportunity side of things, the player will drop without much adjustment to talent since the NFL isn't going to give too many opportunities to someone who's done nothing in 3-4 years.  In fact, letting the opportunity rating drive this more so than dropping your talent rating, might allow you to better identify late bloomers through a position change or team change, whereas if you're dropping their talent along with opportunity, they might get lost in the crowd of mediocrity.

In any case, I think if you're managing your team along these three roles (starter, backup, and developmental players) you're going to outperform your opponents long term, simply due to more effective roster management - even if the methodology when rating those players within those roles is imperfect.

An exception to this for me would be Sammy Watkins, who I am still very high on based on pre NFL draft evaluation and what I have seen from him at times in the NFL. He hasn't produced as well as expected. Part of that is because of injuries, which can happen to anyone, part of it is because of the situation with Rex Ryan conservative run based offense. Watkins has shown me enough to think he will reach his potential, but in retrospect I likely should have downgraded him more than I did based on opportunity or his situation in Buffalo. It has been 3 seasons, maybe I should let the early evaluation go. However Watkins is only 24 years old. Rex is gone some hope of an offense that might be friendlier to Watkins, and if he stays healthy I could still see him performing at a WR 1 level in 2017 and make everyone forget about the missed games. This is more of a gut call on my part based on the talent of Sammy Watkins, rather than sticking to a methodology which I know will tell me to downgrade Watkins based on what he has done so far compared to his peers.
I love this and he's a perfect example of why I think that any talent rating should remain more static than any opportunity rating.  Remember when Moss went to the Raiders?  His talent didn't go anywhere, his opportunity tanked due to surrounding cast and attitude.  Opportunity went back up as the #1 WR for the Pats and if we kept talent at appropriate levels, Moss would have jumped up pretty high as a backup in my ratings.  In fact, I think I had him as my #1 rated backup that first season.  Imagine if Watkins went to the Packers.

 

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