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Why are Republicans trying to push this health care bill and repeal Obamacare?

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29 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

I'd like to believe this, but I keep hearing how nervous Republicans are, and then they just keep winning. 

IMO,, Gerrymandering ... With any luck it goes the way of the Dodo bird once the supreme court gets done with it and ALL politicians will start shaking in their boots. :popcorn:

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3 minutes ago, honky kong said:

I don't want to agree with this but I kinda do at this point.

At this point, we have to decide as a country if healthcare is a right or a privilege. Until that happens, our healthcare system is going to be completely f'ed up.

I think if you polled people, they would overwhelmingly say it is a right. It's the politicizing of the issue that confuses things. We are being held hostage by these two parties and we have a wicked case of Stockholm Syndrome. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 minute ago, honky kong said:

I don't want to agree with this but I kinda do at this point.

At this point, we have to decide as a country if healthcare is a right or a privilege. Until that happens, our healthcare system is going to be completely f'ed up.

I don't think of it in those either/or terms. Providing universally available health care in the most efficient manner is simply the smart thing to do for everyone in the country, whether they comprehend those benefits or not.

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19 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

There is a whole lot of spin going on from both sides here. All sorts of doctored numbers to show why one side is right and the other is wrong. I want to give some real world numbers. Mine. Before Obamacare, I paid a couple hundred a month for a family of four for good health insurance. Then Obamacare nullified my plan and I got onto the ACA and it was pretty good. I honestly had no complaints. Then my premiums went up at an alarming rate which was matched by how bad my insurance became. Four years later, and I was paying more than my house payment for health insurance that I could not use because it was nothing more than insurance in name alone. We were afraid to have to use the insurance in any way because of what little it covered. 

Some of you know that I have a grilling blog which makes me some good coin along with an Instagram feed that also pays me really well to showcase products for brands. This year I will match my salary from my day job with those to sources of income, if not more. I would love to quit my job and expand my side business, but I can't because I can't afford insurance for what is now a family of 6 if I don't have a job that provides health insurance. The current healthcare system is killing the entrepreneurial spirit in this county. 

I'm no expert but have heard similar stories. There is no great solution with health care costing what it costs. Things have to be limited but increasing military spending, and tax cuts for the super wealthy are the wrong direction IMO.

PM me the grilling blog info and congrats on that.

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

I'm no expert but have heard similar stories. There is no great solution with health care costing what it costs. Things have to be limited but increasing military spending, and tax cuts for the super wealthy are the wrong direction IMO.

PM me the grilling blog info and congrats on that.

Best solution is single payer and then making strong efforts to get America more healthy (it can be done, look at the success we have had with reducing smoking). 

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12 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I don't think of it in those either/or terms. Providing universally available health care in the most efficient manner is simply the smart thing to do for everyone in the country, whether they comprehend those benefits or not.

I agree with you 100% but you have to convince people of that.

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16 minutes ago, belljr said:

This one doesn't affect me now but it would have I think.

tl;dr version

Father in law had a mental disorder and poor health.  He didn't work because of his conditions.   When he was eligible at 65 he applied for Medicaid and received it.

We were able to find a home for him that would treat his mental conditions and physical ailments.  They fixed his eye sight, had heart surgery to save his life and even fixed his hip.

All paid for by medicaid.   Eventually succumbed to Alzheimer's.  Which they cared for him in the home until he passed.

 

There is no way we could have afforded to get him help and or have some one care for him 24/7 if not for medicaid.

Sad that people like him won't get to live "comfortable" in their final days.

 

Make no mistake, this was not some 4 star nursing home.  It was basically a crappy hospital that he had a roommate.   But he was able to live out his life under a roof with care and family visiting

Man that's rough, glad he got to have some treatment for at least some of his life.

There are millions of stories like this on both sides of this debate. The clowns making all the decisions now I don't trust to do it right. Probably always been this way but I only have this small window that I have been around for.

This country has so much and people should have some low base level care they can receive that doesn't bankrupt them. They may have to wait and it won't be the best but it should be out there. Way too simplistic but got to be some way to get there.

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Because F Obama and anything he did or wanted to do. 

It does seem to be pretty much Trump's agenda, how else do you explain the Cuba nonsense? Began when Obama made him look like a fool when he kept going on with his Birther nonsense.

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1 minute ago, The General said:

It does seem to be pretty much Trump's agenda, how else do you explain the Cuba nonsense? Began when Obama made him look like a fool when he kept going on with his Birther nonsense.

Bannon has a message on the white board in his office that says (paraphrasing) Repeal all Obama actions. It doesn't matter if they worked or helped the country. If Obama did it, it needs to go. That's clearly the Trump message.

However, this goes beyond Trump. The Republicans' hatred of Obama is strong and (let's be honest) irrational. So anything that can be done to remove anything he did is a huge victory for them.

And if they can make the 1% even richer in the process that's when you bust out the keggers. 

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12 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Best solution is single payer and then making strong efforts to get America more healthy (it can be done, look at the success we have had with reducing smoking). 

The smoking example is a good one and could be applied in other places as well (like weed). 

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33 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I appreciate your personal story (also awesome job on the blog, DM me a link) and non-partisan approach. I am in total agreement that the ACA needs revision. Do you like the new Senate plan? Why? 

Honestly, I haven't looked at the new plan at all. And while I have no confidence in the current holders of power actually fixing it, I can't imagine it making the situation any worse. I can't imagine how paying an extra house payment a month for insurance I couldn't use is anything else but rock bottom. That being said, I'm not for making a change just to make a change because it can't get any worse. But something has to change. All the numbers about health care got cheaper, in my eyes are (and personal experience) are a bunch of spin. My burden was increased to an almost crushing state. 

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3 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Bannon has a message on the white board in his office that says (paraphrasing) Repeal all Obama actions. It doesn't matter if they worked or helped the country. If Obama did it, it needs to go. That's clearly the Trump message.

However, this goes beyond Trump. The Republicans' hatred of Obama is strong and (let's be honest) irrational. So anything that can be done to remove anything he did is a huge victory for them.

And if they can make the 1% even richer in the process that's when you bust out the keggers. 

Regarding sitting Republican's hating Obama, I'd guess they'd hate on anyone that charismatic from the other side (see Bill Clinton). He was a direct threat to their power. They did seem to get extra butthurt by Obama personally which was kind of funny. 

Trump though was just some TV reality doosh who went out of his way to spout off conspiracy stuff. It was really weird. 

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27 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I think if you polled people, they would overwhelmingly say it is a right. It's the politicizing of the issue that confuses things. We are being held hostage by these two parties and we have a wicked case of Stockholm Syndrome. 

This is so very poignant. Both sides of the aisle are so dishonest and underhanded. It's like only a dirtbag can hold the highest offices in this country. 

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Just now, TheFanatic said:

This is so very poignant. Both sides of the aisle are so dishonest and underhanded. It's like only a dirtbag can hold the highest offices in this country. 

I don't have faith that either party really wants to work with the other to create the best plan for America- one that balances coverage and cost in the best way possible. Both sides are more concerned with leveraging this for "W" in the eyes of their constituents. Although, as said before, this is the government we deserve. 

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28 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

This is so very poignant. Both sides of the aisle are so dishonest and underhanded. It's like only a dirtbag can hold the highest offices in this country. 

The ACA was a well intentioned effort to help poor people get insured and slow down the rate of growth for health care costs, largely by taxing the rich and those who could afford it.  As with any major legislation, there were kinks that needed to be ironed out and revised, but overall it was sustainable and working as planned. 

This GOP plan is essentially raiding health care for the poor in order to cut taxes for the rich.  There isn't any attempt to make the health care system better off.

Conflating the two and blaming both sides equally is bull#### and a large part of the political problem. Why should Republicans do anything worthwhile?  They can rob you blind right in front of your face like they're doing right now with this bill and you and others blame both sides equally.  

 

Edited by tommyGunZ
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Just now, Ilov80s said:

I don't have faith that either party really wants to work with the other to create the best plan for America- one that balances coverage and cost in the best way possible. Both sides are more concerned with leveraging this for "W" in the eyes of their constituents. Although, as said before, this is the government we deserve. 

This is complete bull####.  And yes, by equating good faith efforts to help the poor with Republicans throwing millions off of Medicaid in order to give the top 1% tax cuts, you're only helping further the problem. 

 

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3 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

The ACA was a well intentioned effort to help poor people get insured and slow down the rate of growth for health care costs, largely by taxing the rich and those who could afford it.  As with any major legislation, there were kinks that needed to be ironed out and revised, but overall it was sustainable and working as planned. 

This GOP plan is essentially raiding health care for the poor in order to cut taxes for the rich.  There isn't any attempt to make the health care system better off.

Conflation the two and blaming both sides equally is bull#### and a large part of the political problem. Why should Republicans do anything worthwhile?  They can rob you blind right in front of your face like they're doing right now with this bill and you and others blame both sides equally.  

 

/End thread

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3 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

The ACA was a well intentioned effort to help poor people get insured and slow down the rate of growth for health care costs, largely by taxing the rich and those who could afford it.  As with any major legislation, there were kinks that needed to be ironed out and revised, but overall it was sustainable and working as planned. 

This GOP plan is essentially raiding health care for the poor in order to cut taxes for the rich.  There isn't any attempt to make the health care system better off.

Conflation the two and blaming both sides equally is bull#### and a large part of the political problem. Why should Republicans do anything worthwhile?  They can rob you blind right in front of your face like they're doing right now with this bill and you and others blame both sides equally.  

 

I tend to agree with you but how does the bolded work long term on slowing health care costs? 

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Just now, tommyGunZ said:

This is complete bull####.  And yes, by equating good faith efforts to help the poor with Republicans throwing millions off of Medicaid in order to give the top 1% tax cuts, you're only helping further the problem. 

 

I certainly admit I am a health care novice. Why are so many insurance companies pulling out of States? Was that coming no matter what as GOP have warned or is just a reaction to Trump and to add pressure to get the GOP plan through?

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I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

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22 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The smoking example is a good one and could be applied in other places as well (like weed). 

People quit smoking and got fat. Fat people cost a lot more money to keep alive. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

 

Dallas is run by dems it is a ####show. No idea how we arent south Chicago yet. 

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Just now, culdeus said:

People quit smoking and got fat. Fat people cost a lot more money to keep alive. 

Those aren't related and I expect trends towards obesity were already in place.

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1 minute ago, culdeus said:

People quit smoking and got fat. Fat people cost a lot more money to keep alive. 

Sorry, life isn't boiled down to simplistic conclusions like this one. 

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

This your guy?

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

We definitely have one party that is more interested in governing the country.

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1 hour ago, glvsav37 said:

If our politicians ever decide to put the country fist and put their partisan BS aside, we may actually make something workable...until then we are all ####ed.

This is a non-partisan view:

These politicians didn't simply appear in Washington.  

Until people vote crappy politicians out, nothing will happen.  Everyone votes their own state incumbents in, and thinks everyone else should vote their guys out.  

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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

Until 2010 I had always thought that the parties were just equally decent, intelligent people who simply saw the solutions to our problems in different ways. But something changed in the GOP with Obama's victory and then especially with the tea party-fueled midterm triumph in 2010. The party has rejected various basic principles that everyone had long agreed upon- the validity of scientific consensus (the US is the only country in the world where climate change is politicized, for example), civility (obvious), country over party (it's impossible to overstate the degree to which obstructionism as a political strategy has escalated since Obama's presidency began), and others.

I'm obviously not gonna argue that all Dems are good and all Republicans are bad. That's silly, there are tons of examples of the opposite.  And some of the stuff that seems obvious to me at a national level may be nonexistent or inperceptible at the local level (I don't know, we don't have bipartisan local politics in DC).  But at the national level there's definitely been a shift for the worse on one side, and a lot of intelligent, insightful, decent Republicans know it.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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Just now, culdeus said:

 

Dallas is run by dems it is a ####show. No idea how we arent south Chicago yet. 

Yeah, Wayne County/Detroit has had some crooked Democratic politicians to rival anywhere in the United States. I do believe Obama is a good person and was genuine in his desire to improve health care for the country, but it does seem like there are issues with some people like @TheFanatic getting totally squeezed. Obama being a good person with good intentions doesn't make the entire party good. 

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35 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

There is a whole lot of spin going on from both sides here. All sorts of doctored numbers to show why one side is right and the other is wrong. I want to give some real world numbers. Mine. Before Obamacare, I paid a couple hundred a month for a family of four for good health insurance. Then Obamacare nullified my plan and I got onto the ACA and it was pretty good. I honestly had no complaints. Then my premiums went up at an alarming rate which was matched by how bad my insurance became. Four years later, and I was paying more than my house payment for health insurance that I could not use because it was nothing more than insurance in name alone. We were afraid to have to use the insurance in any way because of what little it covered. 

Some of you know that I have a grilling blog which makes me some good coin along with an Instagram feed that also pays me really well to showcase products for brands. This year I will match my salary from my day job with those to sources of income, if not more. I would love to quit my job and expand my side business, but I can't because I can't afford insurance for what is now a family of 6 if I don't have a job that provides health insurance. The current healthcare system is killing the entrepreneurial spirit in this county. 

This is where I'm at as well. I'm tired of hearing the doctored numbers and sniping from both sides. All I know is that Obamacare was terrible for my personal situation and my friends and family that are self-employed. My premiums skyrocketed while the actual coverage value was reduced significantly. Is this bill an improvement? I honestly don't know. But ACA was one of the most unworkable pieces of legislation that I have seen in my lifetime. Great intentions but poorly implemented. 

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5 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Until 2010 I had always thought that the parties were just equally decent, intelligent people who simply saw the solutions to our problems in different ways. But something changed in the GOP with Obama's victory and then especially with the tea party-fueled midterm triumph in 2010. The party has rejected various basic principles that everyone had long agreed upon- the validity of scientific consensus (the US is the only country in the world where climate change is politicized, for example), civility (obvious), country over party (it's impossible to overstate the degree to which obstructionism as a political strategy has escalated since Obama's presidency began), and others.

I'm obviously not gonna argue that all Dems are good and all Republicans are bad. That's silly, there are tons of examples of the opposite.  And some of the stuff that seems obvious to me at a national level may be nonexistent or inperceptible at the local level (I don't know, we don't have bipartisan local politics in DC).  But at the national level there's definitely been a shift for the worse on one side, and a lot of intelligent, insightful, decent Republicans know it.

It's why someone like Kasich is such an oddity within the party. He is a Republican clearly trying to work with everyone and help everyone. It's a shock when someone like that emerges from the party right now. It's also why he has no chance to be a powerful voice. His views are not popular or loud enough to make a difference within the party. 

I also don't believe it's as simple as saying Dems good and Republicans bad. But as you said there has been a noticeable shift in the Republican party that began during the Clinton years and escalated to hysteria levels during Obama's tenure that have me strongly questioning whether the Republicans truly care about our country or if winning, promoting their agenda and gleefully stomping on Democrats whenever they can is all they truly care about. 

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Until 2010 I had always thought that the parties were just equally decent, intelligent people who simply saw the solutions to our problems in different ways. But something changed in the GOP with the tea party midterms in 2010. The party has rejected various basic principles that everyone had long agreed upon- the validity of scientific consensus (the US is the only country in the world where climate change is politicized, for example), civility (obvious), country over party (it's impossible to overstate the degree to which obstructionism as a political strategy has escalated since Obama's presidency began), and others.

I'm obviously not gonna argue that all Dems are good and all Republicans are bad. That's silly, there are tons of examples of the opposite.  And some of the stuff that seems obvious to me at a national level may be nonexistent or inperceptible at the local level (I don't know, we don't have bipartisan local politics in DC).  But at the national level there's definitely been a shift for the worse on one side, and a lot of intelligent, insightful, decent Republicans know it.

I agree with a lot of this post. The GOP has changed a lot. Hell, Nixon is the one that signed into law the Clean Air Act. The Tea Party swing and the rise of the  Evangelicals in the 80s really has shifted the party. Mitch McConnell is especially vile IMO. Guys like Romney, Jeb and Kasich should be the leaders of the GOP, but they have totally been marginalized. However, I've been to some Town Halls and Democratic rallies (my wife is a big Democrat, even though she knows almost nothing about history and only minimal about politics) and the Democratic supporters there were just as disgusting as any Tea Party movement. No room for discourse or disagreement, No civility. Just booing and hissing and screaming. It was embarrassing to witness. 

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3 hours ago, Quez said:

I agree with Rand Paul on this.  You have to take out the pre-existing.  It will never work when people wait until they are sick / unhealthy to get it.

 

This isn't the only way to have a pre-existing condition.  I had a brain tumor 20 years that caused acromegaly.  I will have that for life and it requires very expensive medication.  Fortunately I have coverage through work, but what if I lose my job?  

My wife was hit by a car last fall and will need future operations and therapy.  I would guess most pre-existing conditions aren't from people who wait until they get sick.

Edited by Amused to Death
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Article on cnbc talking about how bad this is for women...especially pregnant women and new mothers. The article mentioned that the bill was written by 13 men. Is this correct? 

Edited by eoMMan

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1 hour ago, Jeremy said:

Everyone who voted in November knew Republicans prioritize the wealthy

Unfortunately I don't think this is at all the case.

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1 hour ago, TheFanatic said:

There is a whole lot of spin going on from both sides here. All sorts of doctored numbers to show why one side is right and the other is wrong. I want to give some real world numbers. Mine. Before Obamacare, I paid a couple hundred a month for a family of four for good health insurance. Then Obamacare nullified my plan and I got onto the ACA and it was pretty good. I honestly had no complaints. Then my premiums went up at an alarming rate which was matched by how bad my insurance became. Four years later, and I was paying more than my house payment for health insurance that I could not use because it was nothing more than insurance in name alone. We were afraid to have to use the insurance in any way because of what little it covered. 

Some of you know that I have a grilling blog which makes me some good coin along with an Instagram feed that also pays me really well to showcase products for brands. This year I will match my salary from my day job with those to sources of income, if not more. I would love to quit my job and expand my side business, but I can't because I can't afford insurance for what is now a family of 6 if I don't have a job that provides health insurance. The current healthcare system is killing the entrepreneurial spirit in this county. 

I noticed this post got no reaction. 

Seeing all the Obama love in this forum, this is not a surprise to me.

Too bad people feel the need to politicize healthcare.

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1 minute ago, Mr.Pack said:

I noticed this post got no reaction. 

Seeing all the Obama love in this forum, this is not a surprise to me.

Too bad people feel the need to politicize healthcare.

It had multiple quotes and reactions.

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Just now, Mr.Pack said:

I noticed this post got no reaction. 

Seeing all the Obama love in this forum, this is not a surprise to me.

Too bad people feel the need to politicize healthcare.

There were several responses to it, including one from me. And I don't see where the Fanatic or the respondents were particularly politicizing healthcare. Could you be a little more specific?

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45 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I have a very hard time believing we have 1 good party and 1 evil party, 1 party that just wants to help everyone and 1 party that wants to steal from the poor. The local Democratic politicians I have seen in my lifetime were often as crooked as it gets. 

Who said anything about evil? 

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23 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I agree with a lot of this post. The GOP has changed a lot. Hell, Nixon is the one that signed into law the Clean Air Act. The Tea Party swing and the rise of the  Evangelicals in the 80s really has shifted the party. Mitch McConnell is especially vile IMO. Guys like Romney, Jeb and Kasich should be the leaders of the GOP, but they have totally been marginalized. However, I've been to some Town Halls and Democratic rallies (my wife is a big Democrat, even though she knows almost nothing about history and only minimal about politics) and the Democratic supporters there were just as disgusting as any Tea Party movement. No room for discourse or disagreement, No civility. Just booing and hissing and screaming. It was embarrassing to witness. 

That sucks. This was one of my many, many fears with Trump. He's so divisive and obnoxious that many people have a visceral reaction to him being president, plus of course he personally lowered the bar for what is acceptable in politics down to the floor.

Not that this excuses their behavior, of course. There's no excuse for acting like that at rallies or in the presence of a member of Congress who is trying to communicate with constituents, something we should encourage.  But it's worth noting.  In fact many of his supporters voted for him precisely because they wanted to evoke these sorts of reactions.  Even around here where our discussions are way better than most other places IMO, how many posters listed "he makes liberals mad" as one of their reasons for supporting him?

Edited by TobiasFunke

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

I think if you polled people, they would overwhelmingly say it is a right. It's the politicizing of the issue that confuses things. We are being held hostage by these two parties and we have a wicked case of Stockholm Syndrome. 

Spot on and it's disgusting

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35 minutes ago, massraider said:

This is a non-partisan view:

These politicians didn't simply appear in Washington.  

Until people vote crappy politicians out, nothing will happen.  Everyone votes their own state incumbents in, and thinks everyone else should vote their guys out.  

not really...but in theory you are right. The problem is that Washington is a bigger machine then my local representative. You can put a 'good one' in but he will get overrun with the career politicians that have shaped the laws and regulations to benefit the old guard. 

IMO, party leadership on both sides don't want rouge, fiery people in their party who will shake things up b/c it will impact them. And there are a lot more of therm then not, so they band together and refuse to work with those 'good guys' 

IKD, I guess I don't have any faith in our current political system to actually change itself for the good of the country. Everyday you hear about another "Secret this" or "colored that" and when the doors finally open its nothing good. 

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18 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

That sucks. This was one of my many, many fears with Trump. He's so divisive and obnoxious that many people have a visceral reaction to him being president, plus of course he personally lowered the bar for what is acceptable in politics down to the floor.

Not that this excuses their behavior, of course. There's no excuse for acting like that at rallies or in the presence of a member of Congress who is trying to communicate with constituents, something we should encourage.  But it's worth noting.  In fact many of his supporters voted for him precisely because they wanted to evoke these sorts of reactions.  Even around here where our discussions are way better than most other places IMO, how many posters listed "he makes liberals mad" as one of their reasons for supporting him?

So you blame Trump for the actions of Democrats at town hall meetings and rallies? 

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2 minutes ago, Steve said:

So you blame Trump for the actions of Democrats at town hall meetings and rallies? 

Cut and pasted from my post:

"Not that this excuses their behavior, of course. There's no excuse for acting like that at rallies or in the presence of a member of Congress who is trying to communicate with constituents, something we should encourage."

:shrug:

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34 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

 The article mentioned that the bill was written by 13 men. Is this correct? 

I heard it was completed at their last supper.

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20 minutes ago, proninja said:

Probably because he knows it's true and it's embarrassing for people with some bit of a conscience left to support legislation like this

You can keep your health plan and doctor if you want.  :thumbup:

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