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adonis

Trump poised to end DACA as early as Friday

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I am further to the right than most of this board. That being said, I don't have any clue why there isn't a path to citizenship for the people that meet the criteria set forth below:

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Individuals are able to request DACA status if they were under the age of 31 on June 15, 2012, came to the U.S. before turning 16 and have continuously lived in the country since June 15, 2007.

Individuals must also have a high school diploma, GED certification, been honorably discharged from the military or still be in school. Recipients cannot have a criminal record.

These are the very people we should want to become citizens.

Edited by Gawain
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Some indications that provisions will be made to allow folks here currently studying to stay until they're done with their studies.  This was referenced during a press conference where there were also questions about hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants affected by the floods in Houston.

Some questions included whether these "illegal" folks would be rounded up, and the answer was that unless they committed crimes, they shouldn't be worried about going to shelters, but it's unlikely that taxpayer dollars would go to support "illegal" immigrants rebuilding, but again they won't be thirsty or hungry.

If you were an undocumented immigrant in Houston, and you have lost things in the flood, imagine how worried you would be right now.  In Trump's America, you didn't have a place even if you had somewhere to live.  Now that many have lost their homes and possessions, what hope do they have?

And on top of this, Trump seemingly is going to end DACA in its current form.

What's next?  We gonna send these immigrants to ghetto's once they get out of the shelters?  Mass deportations?  What's the plan here for how we deal with these fellow humans living in our country?

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28 minutes ago, Gawain said:

These are the very people we should want to become citizens.

It's almost as if some under current is motivating this, not really the good of our nation (not to even speak of the decency to human beings who had no choice in the decision to come here). 

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41 minutes ago, adonis said:

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/903317500254924805

Seems like he's throwing red meat to his base left and right, irrespective of the human cost of these policy changes.

This is a truly despicable move, if reports are true.

"Only the strongest shall survive" is major tenant of the Christian religion.  It's easy to see why he received the vast majority of their votes.

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29 minutes ago, adonis said:

Some questions included whether these "illegal" folks would be rounded up, and the answer was that unless they committed crimes, they shouldn't be worried about going to shelters, but it's unlikely that taxpayer dollars would go to support "illegal" immigrants rebuilding, but again they won't be thirsty or hungry.

We have already recognized the dangers (to society at large, not the immigrant community itself, that is an even more stark human reality - but hey, we are 'merican's LONG before we are human right! And human doesn't mean white, faux patriot, faux conservative even!) of this approach.

People are being arrested/deported showing up for school. People are being arrested/deported because of anonymous calls to police that allege gang ties - with NO proof whatsoever. People are being arrested/deported for driving, pulled over for Trumped up charges on their way to buy milk.

People are NOT seeking medical help. Kids ARE dropping out of school. We are re-creating and forcing people into the underground and black/grey markets and the underbelly of society. It's pulling apart families, neighborhoods, communities while putting individuals at risk both inside the immigrant communities at hand, and affecting the rest of society, especially legal and legitimate immigrant communities/individuals who now face additional pressures, harassment, violence and other hurdles as they pursue their American dream.

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1 minute ago, Sheriff Bart said:

"Only the strongest shall survive" is major tenant of the Christian religion.  It's easy to see why he received the vast majority of their votes.

It is? (Seriously, I never heard this... I have a lot of issues with religion in general, and certainly some dogmatic and very convenient for the power class structures that are far removed from what I know of Christ's teachings, but I'd not heard this before.  Evangelical maybe?)

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2 minutes ago, Koya said:

It is? (Seriously, I never heard this... I have a lot of issues with religion in general, and certainly some dogmatic and very convenient for the power class structures that are far removed from what I know of Christ's teachings, but I'd not heard this before.  Evangelical maybe?)

Sorry, I was thinking of Revenge of the Nerds.  

 

Christianity is "Whatsoever you do to the least of your brothers, that you do onto me".    Catholic school was three decades ago praise the Lord.

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Matthew 25:35-40

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

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I don't see any real issue with this.  It's illegal amnesty and circumvents congress who are supposed to make the immigration laws.  It was a controversial overreach of the executive branch.

Edited by MaxThreshold
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26 minutes ago, Koya said:

It's almost as if some under current is motivating this, not really the good of our nation 

Yes, it's kind of like there is some sentiment behind this other than a genuine concern for good policy-making.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

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Just now, MaxThreshold said:

It's illegal amnesty and circumvents congress who are supposed to make the immigration laws.  It was a controversial overreach of the executive branch.

Everything except the first three words is reasonable and would be a solid defense, were it not for the fact that (1) this president has shown he has no problem whatsoever with controversial overreaches of the executive branch when it comes to immigration, and (2) if they genuinely thought the EO was unconstitutional they should have killed it immediately and allowed/encouraged Congress to swiftly enact a bulletproof legislative fix, instead of waiting eight months and then doing it the day before a holiday weekend at the end of the summer, right before Congress returns with limited time to pass a spending measure and a debt ceiling adjustment.

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9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Yes, it's kind of like there is some sentiment behind this other than a genuine concern for good policy-making.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

I'm stereotyping but I bet most of these people are Christian so that's not it.

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21 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Matthew 25:35-40

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Get out of here with your liberul clap-trap.

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1 minute ago, urbanhack said:

Piece of ####.  My SO's niece and nephew fall into this.  Disgusting.  

So sorry to hear that this effects you personally.  Hopefully they can make it through until we bridge our nation back to the ideals we once held... including the very basics such as embracing humanity, and fairness... not to mention not holding innocent children accountable and doing real and terrible harm to their lives as a result of actions their parents took.

Just so awful, heartless and cowardly.  I feel for you, your family, and everyone in similar shoes. 

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https://twitter.com/RepMikeCoffman/status/903351688400171008

(1/3):  I have introduced the #BRIDGEAct in Congress to protect #DACA recipients

(2/3):  When I return to D.C., I will file a discharge petition to force a floor vote on the #BRIDGEAct.

(3/3):  #DACA participants grew up here, went to school here, and should be allowed to stay here. The time has come to take action.

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This is a really bad idea and I hope that congress can make it suck less.

There was nothing bad about DACA. 

Once again, Trump is not a leader. He has no vision, and he is in way over his head. 

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31 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

How does this make America great?

Because it is an illegal overreach by the Executive branch.  Immigration laws go thru Congress, which this program clearly circumvented.

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Let's keep the hysteria in check on this. It's isn't all doom & gloom with the conservative dreamer bill being crafted.

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We all agree that Trump rolled this back only because it was Obama's idea, right?

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41 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

We all agree that Trump rolled this back only because it was Obama's idea, right?

Probably.  Not sure why we roll back Obama's good ideas but keep his bad ideas.

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2 hours ago, MaxThreshold said:

Because it is an illegal overreach by the Executive branch.  Immigration laws go thru Congress, which this program clearly circumvented.

Something tells me you or to be more fair, most Trump supporters, wouldn't have the same opinion if Trump had introduced DACA

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39 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Something tells me you or to be more fair, most Trump supporters, wouldn't have the same opinion if Trump had introduced DACA

Just like you would be all for it if this was stopped by a Democrat president. :shrug:

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1 minute ago, MaxThreshold said:

Because it's illegal and unconstitutional.

Then why didn't he do it as soon as he took office?  Why allow an illegal, unconstitutional exercise of authority to continue for 8 months?  If you like the policy and and only have issues wit the constitutionality, why not give Congress a chance to pass legislation to right the wrong immediately?  Why not use your influence, which was at its peak in the first weeks of the presidency, to press them to do so?

 

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19 hours ago, adonis said:

 

What's next?  We gonna send these immigrants to ghetto's once they get out of the shelters?  Mass deportations?  What's the plan here for how we deal with these fellow humans living in our country?

I would assert with much confidence that there is no person in this forum who has argued more stridently for amnesty, and for undocumented people in general, than I have. Still, I think you're going overboard here.

I loved it when Obama started DACA. But that was only a few years ago. Prior to that, what we had was an unorganized system of undocumented students and military, most of whom got to stay, some of whom were unjustly deported. But there were no mass deportations of the sort you're fearful of. There was simply no plan. If Trump gets rid of DACA today, we go back to there being no plan.

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Just now, timschochet said:
19 hours ago, adonis said:

 

What's next?  We gonna send these immigrants to ghetto's once they get out of the shelters?  Mass deportations?  What's the plan here for how we deal with these fellow humans living in our country?

I would assert with much confidence that there is no person in this forum who has argued more stridently for amnesty, and for undocumented people in general, than I have. Still, I think you're going overboard here.

I loved it when Obama started DACA. But that was only a few years ago. Prior to that, what we had was an unorganized system of undocumented students and military, most of whom got to stay, some of whom were unjustly deported. But there were no mass deportations of the sort you're fearful of. There was simply no plan. If Trump gets rid of DACA today, we go back to there being no plan.

I was referring more to the undocumented folks, the hundreds and thousands of them, in Houston who are targets of the Trump administration.

They've lost everything, they're undocumented, the feds say they won't be supplying any funding to help them...they're told they won't be deported if they show up to shelters, but where do they go from here?  Do they get rounded up and grouped together in low income housing until a solution is created?  Are they all deported?  Where will they go and what will they do?

You can't tell me that their outlook is anything but bleak right now.

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11 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

Because it's illegal and unconstitutional.

This is simply not correct. The Supreme Court voted 4-4 on this issue, which left DACA in place.

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2 minutes ago, adonis said:

I was referring more to the undocumented folks, the hundreds and thousands of them, in Houston who are targets of the Trump administration.

They've lost everything, they're undocumented, the feds say they won't be supplying any funding to help them...they're told they won't be deported if they show up to shelters, but where do they go from here?  Do they get rounded up and grouped together in low income housing until a solution is created?  Are they all deported?  Where will they go and what will they do?

You can't tell me that their outlook is anything but bleak right now.

Ah, I see where you're going now. I didn't read that correctly before.

Yeah, their situation is dire. Hopefully they'll be allowed to stay.

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15 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

Just like you would be all for it if this was stopped by a Democrat president. :shrug:

You don't know me very well.  I'm not a Democrat and I don't choose sides based on party.  I pretty much hate both of them but I do find the current POTUS to be extraordinarily bad in many ways.  This being one of them - I would be asking the same question if Hillary had done this.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

This is simply not correct. The Supreme Court voted 4-4 on this issue, which left DACA in place.

Sure, but if a president legitimately believes it to be unconstitutional that's a reasonable rationale for revoking the executive action. 

The problem is that explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny, for the reasons I've now explained twice- if that was the only reasoning for killing DACA, the president should have done it months ago and pushed for a legislative fix ASAP. Instead Trump let an "unconstitutional" program continue well into his presidency, before ultimately weakly punting to an already overburdened Congress to eventually, hopefully, prevent the harm that killing DACA will inflict.

No Trump supporter has or will address this point.  That should tell you everything you need to know.

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19 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

Just like you would be all for it if this was stopped by a Democrat president. :shrug:

That is about as big a load of BS I could think of. Many of us haven't even voted for a Dem president since, well, Otis was cool and hanging out with stewardesses. 

Just because some are motivated by party over politics, certainly many who support the current regime, doesn't mean we all do... and DACA is something we believe in whether it was signed by Obama, Bush, Nero... the law is separate from the person who signed it and it's the law we wish to protect.

Perhaps this is just another example of how this new right leaning portion of our country simply projects unto others the very behaviors in which, they engage themselves. It's just like those who most often blame others for cheating are most likely to be cheaters, themselves.

 

 

I'll go back to my first post on this. We see so clearly, the heartless among us.  

Doubling down that people are aghast at this only because it's Trump only reinforces that perspective and shows a complete lack of grasp with the sentiments of the very people about whom you speak. Im not for nor against ANYthing because it came from Trump (back to FEMA and Long.... kudos). I'm aghast and against Trump, because of all that he says, preaches, stands for and how he acts as a person and leader. Same can be said for those who support him. Not the other way around.

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54 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Then why didn't he do it as soon as he took office?  Why allow an illegal, unconstitutional exercise of authority to continue for 8 months?  If you like the policy and and only have issues wit the constitutionality, why not give Congress a chance to pass legislation to right the wrong immediately?  Why not use your influence, which was at its peak in the first weeks of the presidency, to press them to do so?

 

I think Obama talked to Trump about it and maybe that is why he waited so long - he was waffling even though it was a campaign promise.

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45 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This is simply not correct. The Supreme Court voted 4-4 on this issue, which left DACA in place.

Immigration issues are NOT the responsibility of Congress?  This will end up before the SC again if not ended.

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1 minute ago, MaxThreshold said:

I think Obama talked to Trump about it and maybe that is why he waited so long - he was waffling even though it was a campaign promise.

There still maybe a compromise 

 

 

 Tillis plan would offer an eventual path to U.S. citizenship for immigrants who entered illegally before Jan. 1, 2012, and were 16 years old or younger.

The proposal would grant high school graduates without a serious criminal record conditional immigration status for a five-year period. During that time, if they earn a higher-education degree, serve in the military or stay employed, they could apply for permanent residency and, eventually, citizenship.


Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article170547392.html#storylink=c

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40 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Sure, but if a president legitimately believes it to be unconstitutional that's a reasonable rationale for revoking the executive action. 

The problem is that explanation doesn't stand up to scrutiny, for the reasons I've now explained twice- if that was the only reasoning for killing DACA, the president should have done it months ago and pushed for a legislative fix ASAP. Instead Trump let an "unconstitutional" program continue well into his presidency, before ultimately weakly punting to an already overburdened Congress to eventually, hopefully, prevent the harm that killing DACA will inflict.

No Trump supporter has or will address this point.  That should tell you everything you need to know.

it doesn't matter if he did it to start with or now.  it was unconstitutional then and it's unconstitutional now.  The timing - only 8 months so hardly "well into" his presidency - is irrelevant.

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39 minutes ago, Koya said:

That is about as big a load of BS I could think of. Many of us haven't even voted for a Dem president since, well, Otis was cool and hanging out with stewardesses. 

Just because some are motivated by party over politics, certainly many who support the current regime, doesn't mean we all do... and DACA is something we believe in whether it was signed by Obama, Bush, Nero... the law is separate from the person who signed it and it's the law we wish to protect.

Perhaps this is just another example of how this new right leaning portion of our country simply projects unto others the very behaviors in which, they engage themselves. It's just like those who most often blame others for cheating are most likely to be cheaters, themselves.

 

 

I'll go back to my first post on this. We see so clearly, the heartless among us.  

Doubling down that people are aghast at this only because it's Trump only reinforces that perspective and shows a complete lack of grasp with the sentiments of the very people about whom you speak. Im not for nor against ANYthing because it came from Trump (back to FEMA and Long.... kudos). I'm aghast and against Trump, because of all that he says, preaches, stands for and how he acts as a person and leader. Same can be said for those who support him. Not the other way around.

OH, please, cut it with your :bs:  Your over-dramatic reactions to everything are ridiculous and tiresome. This over-hyped emotional nonsense has simply got to stop. 

Edited by MaxThreshold
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11 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

it doesn't matter if he did it to start with or now.  it was unconstitutional then and it's unconstitutional now.  The timing - only 8 months so hardly "well into" his presidency - is irrelevant.

Of course it matters. It speaks to whether that's the actual motivation or just a flimsy excuse to be cruel in order to drum up support from his base.

 

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3 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Of course it matters. It speaks to whether that's the actual motivation or just a flimsy excuse to be cruel in order to drum up support from his base.

 

Oh :bs:

We get it - everyone who doesn't vote or think like you is either a racist, homophobe, low information, etc.  Now we can add CRUEL to that list too.  Whatever.

It's an illegal overreach of the Executive branch.  Congress makes the immigration laws, not you, me or the President.  They ended up getting something they never should have had in the first place (via the Executive branch).

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7 minutes ago, MaxThreshold said:

Oh :bs:

We get it - everyone who doesn't vote or think like you is either a racist, homophobe, low information, etc.  Now we can add CRUEL to that list too.  Whatever.

It's an illegal overreach of the Executive branch.  Congress makes the immigration laws, not you, me or the President.  They ended up getting something they never should have had in the first place (via the Executive branch).

Not one word of this is responsive to what I said, nor did I say anything resembling the bolded (in fact I've frequently said that I don't think voting for Trump makes someone a racist).

The timing makes it crystal clear that the actual motivation cannot be the claimed motivation.  If you think something is good policy but is unconstitutional, you fix it by addressing the constitutionality and pushing for the policy change. You don't let it languish for 8 months and then fix the constitutionality part, while timing it so that the policy part is unlikely to be addressed any time soon.

Sorry, but the delay means that Trump owns the policy behind this.

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On tomorrow's schedule: POTUS declares official kick a puppy day!

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