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Baker Mayfield - Still has more Swag than OBJ and Jarvis combined!

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Just now, amnesiac said:

i hope Mayfield doesn't win OROY and it just adds to that chip he seems to carry on his shoulder.

Hope plays no part in this he's NOT going to win.  Saquon will win.  

The dismissal of Mayfield should add to that chip and it will pay off for Browns fans.

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7 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Hope plays no part in this he's NOT going to win.  Saquon will win.  

The dismissal of Mayfield should add to that chip and it will pay off for Browns fans.

i think he has a shot.  his story has been a compelling one, and the NFL is always trying to bring in younger viewers.  i think he's good for their desired demographic.

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13 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i hope Mayfield doesn't win OROY and it just adds to that chip he seems to carry on his shoulder.

That's the most likely scenario, but it's one that I think Baker is used to having as fuel for his football career.

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41 minutes ago, Peak said:

Thats a lazy comparison though...considering Taylor had the same line and pieces that Mayfield had during the first few games, yet he didn't excel the way Baker has done.  In fact, you see exactly what I'm talking about when you compare the two QBs(Taylor, Baker) with the same pieces.  This was a different team with Baker under center.  They played to a higher standard.  They fed off of Baker's energy and used that to fuel their own level of play.  In essence, Baker made that team play better.  I don't see that with Barkley.  He didn't make the team play better.  Barkley could tear off a 102yd TD run, and that Eli led offense would trot back out the next series and go 3 and out.  That's what I'm talking about here.

CLE's line was 5 times better with Taylor.  How often did Taylor get sacked or pressured or hit?  Many, many times more than Baker.  How many passes did the WRs/RBs/TEs catch with Taylor?  Far fewer.  How much more effective were the RBs with Taylor?  They weren't.  Baker is playing with the same pieces another QB had before him and is succeeding with them.  That is the level of play Baker has brought to this team.  Barkley has shown sparks in NY, whereas Baker has lit a burning fire in CLE.

Taylor also didn't have Chubb.  Huge difference.  

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16 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Hope plays no part in this he's NOT going to win.  Saquon will win.  

The dismissal of Mayfield should add to that chip and it will pay off for Browns fans.

If Barkley wins ROY, it's not a dismissal of Mayfield.  It's the league honoring a guy who immediately became the best if not second best running back in the league in his first year. It's in no way a diss of Mayfield. Although I would fully expect him.to act like it was.  

Bottom line is, Cleveland did well with their first pick. And the Giants did well with their second. Both look like they drive to legitimate stars in the league. 

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3 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Lets just address the 500 lb gorilla, Saquon Barkley has been a favorite to win OROY before he strapped up due to the NY media bias that cannot be overlooked or undersold.  If Baker had been taken by the Giants he'd be the hands-down favorite to win Rook of the year.  The world media capital is New York City, the NFL headquarters operates from that location and the national game of the week is hosted from that location.  The media bias is overt and obvious and tips the scale in many competitions.

Baker plays what is the toughest position to play in all professional sports.  

He's played the toughest schedule of any NFL quarterback.

He is on his second head coach and offensive coordinator.

He's on pace to break the all-time NFL record for TDs from a rookie QB and he didn't start till the fourth game.

Saquon Barkley is undeniably great but he's not playing the toughest position, hasn't faced the toughest schedule, isn't on his second HC/OC, didn't come in with expectations and say he was the guy to turn around a team that had gone 1-31 over the past two years and was the laughingstock of the league for over two decades.

No question in my mind that if Baker had done that in the media capital of the word that he would be the hands-down favorite for OROY and it wouldn't be close.

:goodposting:

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5 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

Taylor also didn't have Chubb.  Huge difference.  

Taylor could have a rotation of Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders and still suck just as bad as every other day he sucks...which is every day he plays.

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9 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

If Barkley wins ROY, it's not a dismissal of Mayfield.  It's the league honoring a guy who immediately became the best if not second best running back in the league in his first year. It's in no way a diss of Mayfield. Although I would fully expect him.to act like it was.  

Bottom line is, Cleveland did well with their first pick. And the Giants did well with their second. Both look like they drive to legitimate stars in the league. 

The giants bombed their pick and Mayfield is the RoY.

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10 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

He won the heisman

and he was the first pick of the draft.  

its never enough for him, and i think that’s great.  

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19 hours ago, Peak said:

Thats a lazy comparison though...considering Taylor had the same line and pieces that Mayfield had during the first few games, yet he didn't excel the way Baker has done.  In fact, you see exactly what I'm talking about when you compare the two QBs(Taylor, Baker) with the same pieces.  This was a different team with Baker under center.  They played to a higher standard.  They fed off of Baker's energy and used that to fuel their own level of play.  In essence, Baker made that team play better.  I don't see that with Barkley.  He didn't make the team play better.  Barkley could tear off a 102yd TD run, and that Eli led offense would trot back out the next series and go 3 and out.  That's what I'm talking about here.

CLE's line was 5 times better with Taylor.  How often did Taylor get sacked or pressured or hit?  Many, many times more than Baker.  How many passes did the WRs/RBs/TEs catch with Taylor?  Far fewer.  How much more effective were the RBs with Taylor?  They weren't.  Baker is playing with the same pieces another QB had before him and is succeeding with them.  That is the level of play Baker has brought to this team.  Barkley has shown sparks in NY, whereas Baker has lit a burning fire in CLE.

Good post!  I think the amount of sacks allowed is directly attributable to Mayfield.  Though they upgraded OLT, Baker seems to know, pre-snap, where to move to avoid the rush.  This, to me, is a VERY important part of the offensive resurgence.  

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9 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

The giants bombed their pick and Mayfield is the RoY.

Lolol. Yeah, who would want a 2000 yard running back when you could have had a marginal starter like Darnold, Allen, or Rosen? 🤣 

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33 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Lolol. Yeah, who would want a 2000 yard running back when you could have had a marginal starter like Darnold, Allen, or Rosen? 🤣 

The Giants season was over in April because they had a coaching staff led by Pat Shurmur and went into the season with Eli Manning as their quarterback. Nothing else they did mattered. 2000 yard running backs only matter if you have those other two items already right. They dont. 

The Browns season was over when Hue was retained. Baker is the RoY because he showed just how special he is once that growth was removed. 

Darnold and Rosen may not have a historically awful coach like Hue but they're clearly part of the problem. Judging them before they have competent coaching is a rush to judgment hot taek. 

And when they have new coaching next year their teams will have reason to believe in a resurgence. The Giants with Eli and Pat? Like last year, it's already over. But, 2000 yards!

Edited by MAC_32

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And it is possible for Saquon to be a great player and a terrible pick at the same time. 

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4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The Giants season was over in April because they had a coaching staff led by Pat Shurmur and went into the season with Eli Manning as their quarterback. Nothing else they did mattered. 2000 yard running backs only matter if you have those other two items already right. They dont. 

The Browns season was over when Hue was retained. Baker is the RoY because he showed just how special he is once that growth was removed. 

Darnold and Rosen may not have a historically awful coach like Hue but they're clearly part of the problem. Judging them before they have competent coaching is a rush to judgment hot taek. 

And when they have new coaching next year their teams will have reason to believe in a resurgence. The Giants with Eli and Pat? Like last year, it's already over. But, 2000 yards!

Not sure if you realize this, but Mayfield wasn't available when the Giants picked Barkley. The staff made the decision that they wanted a once-in-a-decade running back over three quarterbacks that they saw as average at best.  Nothing we saw this season indicates they evaluated anyone wrong. 

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10 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Lolol. Yeah, who would want a 2000 yard running back when you could have had a marginal starter like Darnold, Allen, or Rosen? 🤣 

No one is or has said anything other than Saquon Barkley has been great but for building an NFL team the QB position is without a doubt the single most important position.

It is very tough to find a QB and this year's draft class lost the QB who was considered the best of class.

🆃🆁 🅾🆈 🅷🆄🅶🅷🅴🆂  ™️‏Verified account @TommySledge

THIS JUST IN — Oregon QB Justin Herbert returning for his senior year That leaves only two possible first round QBs in next year’s NFL Draft (Ohio State’s Dwayne Haskins and Missouri’s Drew Lock) Thoughts @DPBrugler @JC1053 @KTFunTweets

----------------------------------------------------------------

It is tough to find a long term solution at QB.  What I've heard is the Giants will go after Joe Flacco if they can't find their QB in the draft.

1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Who should they havr taken? 

That is the question.  Eli has first round picks at every skill position, no rookie QB this year had that advantage yet they have double digit losses.  Its easier to find skill positions, especially RB later in the draft than a franchise QB so take the QB because it looks like Sam Darnold has a chance.

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5 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Who should they havr taken? 

Hiring Pat ruled out Lamar, but I think they should have built around Darnold or Rosen. Sustained success starts with coaching and quarterback play. With one of those two I think they may have one piece then mulligan in 2 years and try to hit the other. They whiffed on both though. Season over before it starts. 

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7 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Hiring Pat ruled out Lamar, but I think they should have built around Darnold or Rosen. Sustained success starts with coaching and quarterback play. With one of those two I think they may have one piece then mulligan in 2 years and try to hit the other. They whiffed on both though. Season over before it starts. 

Nyg ownership isnt moving on from Eli until he decides to retire

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4 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Nyg ownership isnt moving on from Eli until he decides to retire

That doesnt counter anything I've said. It just supports my whole point that it's a terrible decision. Eli sucks. A team led by him loses. No matter what you put around him. 

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11 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

That doesnt counter anything I've said. It just supports my whole point that it's a terrible decision. Eli sucks. A team led by him loses. No matter what you put around him. 

He has two super bowl rings. If the argument is he's well past his prime, then I'll give you that. but thinking they could squeeze another year or two out of him when it didn't look like there was any Superstar quarterbacks left in the draft, is hardly something you can blame them for. I seriously doubt there was a single game this season where they watched Sam Darnold and thought, 'damn. You could have been ours'. Meanwhile, Barkley's running for 2000 yards behind the worst line in football. You don't pass on the best running back in football for a flyer on three quarterbacks that looked marginal at best. Perhaps they have taken Mayfield if he was still there. 

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21 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Nyg ownership isnt moving on from Eli until he decides to retire

I don't know about that. I think they might go after flacco or Foles to be their starter next year

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

He has two super bowl rings. If the argument is he's well past his prime, then I'll give you that. but thinking they could squeeze another year or two out of him when it didn't look like there was any Superstar quarterbacks left in the draft, is hardly something you can blame them for. I seriously doubt there was a single game this season where they watched Sam Darnold and thought, 'damn. You could have been ours'. Meanwhile, Barkley's running for 2000 yards behind the worst line in football. You don't pass on the best running back in football for a flyer on three quarterbacks that looked marginal at best. Perhaps they have taken Mayfield if he was still there. 

I blamed them for thinking Eli was not done and still do. If you cant self assess well then you cant evaluate at all. 

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7 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't know about that. I think they might go after flacco or Foles to be their starter next year

Eli to Flacco would be tragically poetic. 

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5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Eli to Flacco would be tragically poetic. 

Who would be your choice?

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34 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Nyg ownership isnt moving on from Eli until he decides to retire

Not so sure on this statement.  Everything I've read is that Barkley was the #1 pick on the NYG draft board - ahead of Darnold, Rosen, and even Baker.  Gettleman et al wanted the RB and he was going to NYG, unless CLE selected him first.  So if CLE did pick Barkley, my guess would have been Darnold or Baker at #2, with the NYJ taking who was left over at #3.  

Eli is past him prime playing years, IMO.  His level of play has regressed.  Maybe the NYG FO believes in Davis Webb as their replacement.  Maybe NYG FO felt they could get their QB in the 2019 draft.  Aside from Gettleman and his stooges, no one knows for sure.  The one constant being communicated from NYG was that Barkley was their main target in 2018.

All that said, I stand by my statement that Barkley is a good player, but he won't carry a team on his back.  He needs a QB and a defense to help him win games.  Baker carries his team and makes those around him play better.  Chubb had spurts of potential with Taylor, but the coaches deceided to hold both Baker and Chubb back in the first 4 games of the season.  Who's to say Chubb couldn't have challenged Barkley for best rookie RB this year if he had played all 17 games like Barkley?  He has done better in the short term he's had when comparing Barkley.  But again, I think Baker helped Chubb get those yards as the QB has helped increase the play of his skill players (WRs, TEs, RBs).  Without Baker, Chubb isn't going to get the holes he's had to run through this last half of the year.  Without Baker, CLE isn't winning games.  Without Baker's ability to move and improvise, that Oline wouldn't look as good as it does now. 

Baker has transformed that team, and to me that is what makes him OROY.

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6 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Who would be your choice?

For me, I think Haskins is the guy to look for in NYG.  Pair him with OBJ and Barkley, and you have something to build on.  His arm can make all the throws and will let OBJ stretch the field.  That threat alone will open up holes for Barkley to do his thing and truly fight for the top RB in 2019.

Eli isn't going to suddenly get better over the off season, and Flacco is horrible.  Find a QB that will compliment the players on the team, and I think that guy is Haskins.  

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10 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Who would be your choice?

Darnold or Rosen.

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

I don't know about that. I think they might go after flacco or Foles to be their starter next year

Double digit losses with first round draft picks at:

  • QB - Eli Manning >Born: 1-3-1981
  • WR - ODB >Born: 11-5-1992
  • TE - Evam Engram >Born: 9-2-1994
  • RB - Saquon Barkley ?Born: 2-7-1997
  • WR - Sterling Sheppard ?Born: 2-10-1994

Not to mention FA and former 1st round pick OLT - Nate Soldier 4-12-1988 protecting his blind side.

It is the QB, their have been Flacco rumors.  Flacco is a FA but Foles would cost at least a 1st, and more likely the starting price would be a 1st and 3rd so they are looking at less than ideal options in FA, trades, and the draft.

Add, if one of the draft prospects rise above the rest then it would cost more than the price to land Foles to move-up.

Saquon is great but they really should have taken Darnold IMHO.  He's shown improvement and he doesn't have the sort of supporting cast even if you take out Barkley meanwhile the clock is ticking on four skill positions and the critical left tackle position and they don't have a young franchise QB yet and it will take time to develop a rookie if they go that route.

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Just now, Peak said:

For me, I think Haskins is the guy to look for in NYG.  Pair him with OBJ and Barkley, and you have something to build on.  His arm can make all the throws and will let OBJ stretch the field.  That threat alone will open up holes for Barkley to do his thing and truly fight for the top RB in 2019.

Eli isn't going to suddenly get better over the off season, and Flacco is horrible.  Find a QB that will compliment the players on the team, and I think that guy is Haskins.  

They have one of the worst lines in the league. PFF has them ranked 25th. Eli may have been serviceable behind even an average line. But he's a statue back there. Eli + a bad line = disaster.  I'm not well versed enough on this crop off college QBs yet. If Haskins has some mobility, maybe he'd be a good addition while they do something about the line. A solid line plus OBJ and Barkley could make a lot of quarterbacks look good. I still think they make a run at Foles. 

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1 hour ago, Peak said:

For me, I think Haskins is the guy to look for in NYG.  Pair him with OBJ and Barkley, and you have something to build on.  His arm can make all the throws and will let OBJ stretch the field.  That threat alone will open up holes for Barkley to do his thing and truly fight for the top RB in 2019.

Eli isn't going to suddenly get better over the off season, and Flacco is horrible.  Find a QB that will compliment the players on the team, and I think that guy is Haskins.  

I'm sure eventually there will be a good NFL QB from OSU, but I wouldn't stake my franchise on Haskins being the first.

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1 hour ago, Thomas The Skank Engine said:

I'm sure eventually there will be a good NFL QB from OSU, but I wouldn't stake my franchise on Haskins being the first.

He's the closest thing to pure passer I've seen come out of OSU in a long time.  Can make the NFL throws with good accuracy.  He has some mobility, but that's not his game.  We all know NYG isn't going to shy away from putting Eli back out there next year, so why grab a guy like Haskins to learn in a back up role?  NFL has given him a 1st rnd grade, so why not role the dice?  

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2 hours ago, Peak said:

He's the closest thing to pure passer I've seen come out of OSU in a long time.  Can make the NFL throws with good accuracy.  He has some mobility, but that's not his game.  We all know NYG isn't going to shy away from putting Eli back out there next year, so why grab a guy like Haskins to learn in a back up role?  NFL has given him a 1st rnd grade, so why not role the dice?  

This years crop isnt any good. He is gonna be drafted earlier than he probably should and whether ready or not will be starting games by October. He's got a better shot at making it relative to past buckeye qb's, but I think there are questions about him that cant be answered til after he starts playing pro games. And situation is gonna play a big role. 

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5 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

He has two super bowl rings. If the argument is he's well past his prime, then I'll give you that. but thinking they could squeeze another year or two out of him when it didn't look like there was any Superstar quarterbacks left in the draft, is hardly something you can blame them for. I seriously doubt there was a single game this season where they watched Sam Darnold and thought, 'damn. You could have been ours'. Meanwhile, Barkley's running for 2000 yards behind the worst line in football. You don't pass on the best running back in football for a flyer on three quarterbacks that looked marginal at best. Perhaps they have taken Mayfield if he was still there. 

Round 1, pick 2 or Round 2, pick 35. Take one of the three QB's with your first rounder, pick up your RB in the second :shrug: Hindsight lets us all be super GM's :D

You've mentioned how terrible the NYG's OL is. I'd argue the CLE OL was as bad or worse last year and through the first 4 games of this year. What changed in game 4? The QB elevated the line play. The only significant change to the CLE OL since then has been switching out the LT from a rookie that hasn't played organized football in 2 years to a career journeyman that hasn't realized his potential.

3 hours ago, Thomas The Skank Engine said:

I'm sure eventually there will be a good NFL QB from OSU, but I wouldn't stake my franchise on Haskins being the first.

I'd agree on Haskins. I think he is a competent QB but I think he also benefited from the system. I'd be wary of making him the face of a franchise.

Edited by beer 30

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This years crop isnt any good. He is gonna be drafted earlier than he probably should and whether ready or not will be starting games by October. He's got a better shot at making it relative to past buckeye qb's, but I think there are questions about him that cant be answered til after he starts playing pro games. And situation is gonna play a big role. 

Agreed, which is why I put the caveat of learning behind Eli.  He's not ready for prime time yet, but he has some skills previous OSU QBs lacked.  I think NYG is a good position for him, as far as the type of weapons he'll need to succeed.

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5 minutes ago, Peak said:

Agreed, which is why I put the caveat of learning behind Eli.  He's not ready for prime time yet, but he has some skills previous OSU QBs lacked.  I think NYG is a good position for him, as far as the type of weapons he'll need to succeed.

Learn as in how to be a pro. Maybe. I have no idea if Eli would be accepting of such a role. But learn as in the nuances of the game? I don't know how he would help. Like any qb that peaked at average he doesnt elevate those around him - he just goes as they go.

Ultimately his success largely depends on if he can first do that then second deal with a real pass rush. The only real reason he needs time is because he's only been starting for one season, but he's one of those cases in which I don't understand how sitting would help. I'd rather see him paired with a rookie head coach that has the benefit of more time than an unimaginative retread who needs to win in 2019.

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I believe in Mayfield.

I think he's first off a great team QB and for fantasy, I think he's a top 7 QB next season with Landry, Callaway, Higgins, Njoku, pass catching RB's .... he's going to be great QB IMO

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40 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Round 1, pick 2 or Round 2, pick 35. Take one of the three QB's with your first rounder, pick up your RB in the second :shrug: Hindsight lets us all be super GM's :D

You've mentioned how terrible the NYG's OL is. I'd argue the CLE OL was as bad or worse last year and through the first 4 games of this year. What changed in game 4? The QB elevated the line play. The only significant change to the CLE OL since then has been switching out the LT from a rookie that hasn't played organized football in 2 years to a career journeyman that hasn't realized his potential.

I'd agree on Haskins. I think he is a competent QB but I think he also benefited from the system. I'd be wary of making him the face of a franchise.

Browns line is #2 in the league this year. That helps out Mayfield and Chubb.  Cleveland is a very well-built team what's going to make a lot of noise in the next few years.  

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7 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Browns line is #2 in the league this year. That helps out Mayfield and Chubb.  Cleveland is a very well-built team what's going to make a lot of noise in the next few years.  

If the coaching hire is the correct one then you're right. And coaching is why you were able to pull whatever arbitrary number that ranking represents. The line didn't make Mayfield and Chubb. Coaching got out of everyone's way and put them all in positions to be successful. Then Mayfield took the success from the Atlanta game and told this team where it was going. They all followed. 

This is why the Barkley vs Mayfield argument is not an argument. It's people that are looking at box scores and whatever pff tells them instead of actually watching games and talking like whatever that is represents reality. When its actually so stupid it's funny. With Tyrod Taylor under center (and this is not meant to be a slight on Taylor) for a full season with the same coaching staff from beginning to end this team is no hyperbole not much different than the winless team. 

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9 hours ago, amnesiac said:

and he was the first pick of the draft.  

its never enough for him, and i think that’s great.  

It's great that he's motivated by basically irrelevant stuff, whatever it takes, but let's not pretend like he's really disrespected.

7 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

And it is possible for Saquon to be a great player and a terrible pick at the same time. 

True, the team reminds me of the Lions for most of Barry Sanders career. I think they find their QB in two years, time will tell if that works. But I'll take Barkley every day over the players who went after him.

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2 hours ago, -OZ- said:

It's great that he's motivated by basically irrelevant stuff, whatever it takes, but let's not pretend like he's really disrespected.

it’s definitely possible he’s being disrespected to a certain degree, as there is a big market bias, but i do agree that in the end such honors are mostly irrelevant.  

i’m much more interested in Lombardi trophies   

 

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6 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

it’s definitely possible he’s being disrespected to a certain degree, as there is a big market bias, but i do agree that in the end such honors are mostly irrelevant.  

i’m much more interested in Lombardi trophies   

 

Garbage is spewed by sports talk people Monday-Friday every week. They see criticizing him as profitable, so they will force made up and silly narratives to make more money. Which he will then use as motivation. If we as a society ignored the gibberish then it wouldn't happen but we as a society have proven over and over again that we are not that bright and that's what we want. So then it will result Baker-led Browns wins, which I am all for.

So, society - keep being idiots so we win more football games and I end my Sunday's happy. 

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2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

If the coaching hire is the correct one then you're right. And coaching is why you were able to pull whatever arbitrary number that ranking represents. The line didn't make Mayfield and Chubb. Coaching got out of everyone's way and put them all in positions to be successful. Then Mayfield took the success from the Atlanta game and told this team where it was going. They all followed. 

This is why the Barkley vs Mayfield argument is not an argument. It's people that are looking at box scores and whatever pff tells them instead of actually watching games and talking like whatever that is represents reality. When its actually so stupid it's funny. With Tyrod Taylor under center (and this is not meant to be a slight on Taylor) for a full season with the same coaching staff from beginning to end this team is no hyperbole not much different than the winless team. 

Barkley is going to end up with 2000 yards. He's going to be the rookie of the Year and deserves to be. when you consider the line he's played behind, he's already the best running back in the league. Mayfield is a young promising quarterback. Probably somewhere between 10 and 15 in the league.  

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Barkley is going to end up with 2000 yards. He's going to be the rookie of the Year and deserves to be. when you consider the line he's played behind, he's already the best running back in the league. Mayfield is a young promising quarterback. Probably somewhere between 10 and 15 in the league.  

If it's a box score award, sure.

If it's value to the team's success then it's not debatable. It's Mayfield. 

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50 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If it's a box score award, sure.

If it's value to the team's success then it's not debatable. It's Mayfield. 

Absolutely. Giants would trade Barkley straight up for Mayfield in a second. Hell they'd probably add a future 1st. 

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1 hour ago, amnesiac said:

it’s definitely possible he’s being disrespected to a certain degree, as there is a big market bias, but i do agree that in the end such honors are mostly irrelevant.  

i’m much more interested in Lombardi trophies   

 

Fans might "disrespect" him but when the guy gets the heisman and was the number one pick, it's clear he isn't disrespected by people with power in the business.

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