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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (1 Viewer)

Lots of funny tidbits the last 2 days:

Great news from Gruden on Jordy. "He can still run". I was worried about him being able to get sepration if he was just able to jog or trot.

Also I saw they are converting Amari to RB. 

Jared Cook says Gruden is showing them old grainy film from from a time before he though cameras even existed- said it is the basis for a lot of their playbook. 

 
Few things I've heard and read after the first 2 days of pads. Sorry no links (not very tech savvy). Go to Raiders.com.

Irvin has been praising Kolton Miller. They've been battling the past couple days. Big, athletic and already holding his own. Just needs to continue to get stronger. Early returns looks like the kid will be the real deal.

With Conley out (again) Worley and N. Nelson have been getting a lot of work. It's very possible, week 1 starters could be Melvin and Worley. With N. Nelson playing nickle.

Haven't heard much talk about about the safeties. 

Arden Key seems to be the talk of camp early on for the defense. Not much specifics, but Guenther seems to really like him so far...

A lot of early hype about the WR trio of Cooper, Jordy and Bryant. Personally, that's one position group I'm looking forward to watch this preseason.

RBs: Listening to Gruden, it sounds like he might go with who's hot between Lynch and Martin. It will interesting to see how they're used. If it'll be a throwback to the Garner/Wheatley days or if he really will go with the hot hand. And not much talk about Washington and Richard as of yet. If I had to guess, I'd say Washington will probably make the team, while Richard is a bubble player now.

Interesting Gruden quote:

He was asked, how good will the defense be if Mack doesn't get into camp. 

Gruden: "Well the defense wasn't very good WITH Mack last year." 

Theres so much truth in that statement. Theres 10 other guys on that side of the ball who need to play well alongside Mack. Obviously, the hope is to see Mack with the team soon. But reality is, hes not the problem. He'll be in camp when he gets there, in shape, and ready to go. Don't panic until week 1 is upon us.

 
With Mack, it is being reported that the two sides haven't talked since Feb. Now, I knew they hadn't talked for a bit but no conversation for half a year on not only your best defensive player but one of the best defensive players in the league? Wow. Seems a little more Cold War stuff going on than I thought. 

The positive is that if there is one position that I least worry about being in camp- it is a pass rusher. 

 
Chadstroma said:
With Mack, it is being reported that the two sides haven't talked since Feb. Now, I knew they hadn't talked for a bit but no conversation for half a year on not only your best defensive player but one of the best defensive players in the league? Wow. Seems a little more Cold War stuff going on than I thought. 

The positive is that if there is one position that I least worry about being in camp- it is a pass rusher. 
Click to expand...
The Raiders better be worried about having their best player on the team in camp soon.   Hell, Mack is one of the best players in the league.  

 
I don't doubt that Mack will be back at some point -- Raiders know exactly what he is and what he's worth, and no question Mack does, too. But given the business of football, neither side gains from quick resolution.

Raiders could (and I would say should) break bank to secure his services, but we are cap constrained and don't blame our FO for getting him at the best possible price.

Mack and his agent know that Donald is going through the same thing, and there could be significant downside to signing first (AKA leaving money on the table).

Hopefully both sides are committed to Mack being a Raider for the longest term. This will get done, but you couldn't have expected this to be a quick process.

 
i never understood why players dont play out their contracts before demanding more money...play this year and get paid next off season...simple....that was the agreement

 
BustedKnuckles said:
i never understood why players dont play out their contracts before demanding more money...play this year and get paid next off season...simple....that was the agreement
Click to expand...
I hear ya. Makes sense right? I don't recall which player(s) set this precedent. I don't really keep up with the contract stuff, I personally only care about what happens on the field. On the other side of the coin, if this is how these things work, why can't both sides hash it out months in advance? That's part I never really understood. 

 
Bruno2 said:
I hear ya. Makes sense right? I don't recall which player(s) set this precedent. I don't really keep up with the contract stuff, I personally only care about what happens on the field. On the other side of the coin, if this is how these things work, why can't both sides hash it out months in advance? That's part I never really understood. 
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Things change from year to year.

Player under performs contract, player can get cut.

Player over performs contract, player holds out until paid fairly.

Player performance matches contract, everyone stays happy.

Pretty simple. Non-guaranteed deals in a violent sport leads to short careers, so GMs and players are always playing hot potato so that they don't get stuck in a bad deal.

 
Bruno2 said:
Few things I've heard and read after the first 2 days of pads. Sorry no links (not very tech savvy). Go to Raiders.com.

Irvin has been praising Kolton Miller. They've been battling the past couple days. Big, athletic and already holding his own. Just needs to continue to get stronger. Early returns looks like the kid will be the real deal.

With Conley out (again) Worley and N. Nelson have been getting a lot of work. It's very possible, week 1 starters could be Melvin and Worley. With N. Nelson playing nickle.

Haven't heard much talk about about the safeties. 

Arden Key seems to be the talk of camp early on for the defense. Not much specifics, but Guenther seems to really like him so far...

A lot of early hype about the WR trio of Cooper, Jordy and Bryant. Personally, that's one position group I'm looking forward to watch this preseason.

RBs: Listening to Gruden, it sounds like he might go with who's hot between Lynch and Martin. It will interesting to see how they're used. If it'll be a throwback to the Garner/Wheatley days or if he really will go with the hot hand. And not much talk about Washington and Richard as of yet. If I had to guess, I'd say Washington will probably make the team, while Richard is a bubble player now.

Interesting Gruden quote:

He was asked, how good will the defense be if Mack doesn't get into camp. 

Gruden: "Well the defense wasn't very good WITH Mack last year." 

Theres so much truth in that statement. Theres 10 other guys on that side of the ball who need to play well alongside Mack. Obviously, the hope is to see Mack with the team soon. But reality is, hes not the problem. He'll be in camp when he gets there, in shape, and ready to go. Don't panic until week 1 is upon us.
Click to expand...
I have read that Erick Harris is getting a lot of love from Gruden at the safety position. 

I also have read good things about Switzer out of the slot.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
i never understood why players dont play out their contracts before demanding more money...play this year and get paid next off season...simple....that was the agreement
Click to expand...
If teams had to honor the contracts this would be fine, but they don't.  Also, this is especially tricky for a star player on his fifth year rookie option.  First round picks are forced to sign four year deals with fifth year team options.  The superstar players like Donald and Mack are in line for huge extensions and going into their fifth year option years.  An extension would likely pay them at least $60 million guaranteed.  If they played this year without the extension Mack would get about $15 mil and Donald about $7 mil I believe and then risk getting franchise tagged the following year if they can't work out a long-term deal.  I completely understand guys like Mack and Donald holding out trying to get their mega deals given the nature of the sport and injuries. 

 
ICON211 said:
If teams had to honor the contracts this would be fine, but they don't.  Also, this is especially tricky for a star player on his fifth year rookie option.  First round picks are forced to sign four year deals with fifth year team options.  The superstar players like Donald and Mack are in line for huge extensions and going into their fifth year option years.  An extension would likely pay them at least $60 million guaranteed.  If they played this year without the extension Mack would get about $15 mil and Donald about $7 mil I believe and then risk getting franchise tagged the following year if they can't work out a long-term deal.  I completely understand guys like Mack and Donald holding out trying to get their mega deals given the nature of the sport and injuries. 
Click to expand...
So i would think that the team would plan for such things ahead of time ...its all so confusing lol

Maybe Gruden will restructure his contract to help pay those guys ...ya right  :mellow:

 
BustedKnuckles said:
i never understood why players dont play out their contracts before demanding more money...play this year and get paid next off season...simple....that was the agreement
Click to expand...
So, you go to work everyday. You are easily the top worker in your unit. Other guys that are not as good as you are making more than you. Guys on your work unit get fired all the time and they bring in new guys all the time. You know you only have a few years doing the job at best because it takes a lot physically to do it and it is a very dangerous job where people often have life long problems after working there. You know your value is much higher than what you are getting now. You are going to tell me that you would just pack your lunch every day and keep going to work hoping that your employer pays you more without you trying to get any leverage? I find that hard to believe. 

Because this is a business. This is their livelihood. The chances of them ever sniffing this much money again is remote. The next play could be their last. Heck, your next play could be the last time you walk. I don't hold it against the players at all. I like it when the team and the players work together to figure something out but sometimes the holding out is part of negotiating. It is what it is. 

 
krsone21 said:
Levi Damien
@LeviDamien
I don’t want to overstate this, but Arden Key has looked downright unblockable. Got inside pressure on Kolton Miller and has made Jylan Ware his tackling dummy three times. His handfighting is superb and his bend is lethal. #Raiders
Click to expand...
A pretty consistent chorus of praise for Key. Not surprising since he was pretty much seen as a future top 10 pick back in 2016. Holds the single season LSU sack record. If he keeps his head on straight, then a 3rd rounder for him may be the steal of the draft. 

 
Chadstroma said:
A pretty consistent chorus of praise for Key. Not surprising since he was pretty much seen as a future top 10 pick back in 2016. Holds the single season LSU sack record. If he keeps his head on straight, then a 3rd rounder for him may be the steal of the draft. 
Click to expand...
Yes. If Key and Hurst live up to expectations this draft may be a good one for the Raiders.

Irvin is taking him under his wings and trying to keep him focused and out of trouble.

 
Chadstroma said:
So, you go to work everyday. You are easily the top worker in your unit. Other guys that are not as good as you are making more than you. Guys on your work unit get fired all the time and they bring in new guys all the time. You know you only have a few years doing the job at best because it takes a lot physically to do it and it is a very dangerous job where people often have life long problems after working there. You know your value is much higher than what you are getting now. You are going to tell me that you would just pack your lunch every day and keep going to work hoping that your employer pays you more without you trying to get any leverage? I find that hard to believe. 

Because this is a business. This is their livelihood. The chances of them ever sniffing this much money again is remote. The next play could be their last. Heck, your next play could be the last time you walk. I don't hold it against the players at all. I like it when the team and the players work together to figure something out but sometimes the holding out is part of negotiating. It is what it is. 
Click to expand...
yes ICON211 explained it very clearly ,thank you both

 
Us Raider fans are NOT used to having elite players holding out. We're not used to having elite players period, the past decade. This process is all new to us. Levian Bell and Aaron Donald seem to hold out every year and yet they still end up on their respective teams. I think Mack gets signed, it may be at the last moment, that's just the way these things work out in today's NFL I guess. 

 
Michael Gehlken @GehlkenNFL
 A shocker: Raiders have notified Giorgio Tavecchio he's been waived, source said. Incumbent kicker was competing with rookie Eddy Pineiro. Veteran Mike Nugent signed in his place. Team now has two right-footed kickers competing. Holder Johnny Townsend had been alternating in camp

 
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krsone21 said:
Michael Gehlken @GehlkenNFL
 A shocker: Raiders have notified Giorgio Tavecchio he's been waived, source said. Incumbent kicker was competing with rookie Eddy Pineiro. Veteran Mike Nugent signed in his place. Team now has two right-footed kickers competing. Holder Johnny Townsend had been alternating in camp
Click to expand...
A little thing like this makes me so happy. I’m glad we're out of the leftie kicker game. Having a righty means we now can more easily make a changed to another kicker if needed. 

I like Tavecchio and his story a lot, it’s just I like the idea of a righty kicker better. 

 
Levi Damien
‏@LeviDamien
Arden Key just shucked Kelechi Osemele inside to get pressure. Left Osemele reaching at air. #Raiders

 
Sarlakticacid said:
https://twitter.com/DLineVids/status/1024583050821160960
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Thanks for posting that! Great vid. Wish it was the Key move on Osemele, as this looks like Key on Parker. But I love this video because it's purported to be Irvin who comes in with the excited celly right afterwards, pumping his fist. Love that Irvin is such a leader in this regard, has specifically taken Key under his wing, and looks like he is super psyched pumping up his boy.

Even better is that further down in the feed, it shows Irvin trying that same inside spin move on Miller (and not being as successful) -- so wonder if this is also a source of Irvin's excitement. The student becoming the master kind of thing.

 
PJ Hall is killing the Lions first OL. Destroyed a couple of double teams

It’s a tough thing to admit, but Doug Martin looks pretty damn good out here

 
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Sarlakticacid said:
If only there was one with sound 
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Yes this is a player that might not even make the final roster. But, Jerrod Davis is a starting LB for the Lions. Maybe the takeaway from this video clip is that Gruden is running a more intense and physical camp than Patricia is. When bubble players are trucking starters, clearly one guy is hungrier than the other. Hopefully this is a small sign of good things to come for the new regime. Either that, or Warren just caught Davis off guard on one play and I'm reading too much into it.

 
Latest Raiders 'story' is that Khalil Mack will be fined 800 grand for missing camp.

My dudes, it's like none of the NFL media had seen this play out--every year.  

There's a time to panic.  We are a long way from it.  

Mack ain't paying sheet, and McKenzie ain't trading away a guy he controls easily for two more years.   :sleep:

 
massraider said:
Latest Raiders 'story' is that Khalil Mack will be fined 800 grand for missing camp.

My dudes, it's like none of the NFL media had seen this play out--every year.  

There's a time to panic.  We are a long way from it.  

Mack ain't paying sheet, and McKenzie ain't trading away a guy he controls easily for two more years.   :sleep:
Click to expand...
This happens with a few players every season.  The Raiders are not trading away one of the best defensive players in the league.  Mack will get paid and he deserves it. 

 
Who knows what's true, but if there's any merit to reports he's demanding $25 MM per, Mack is a selfish POS. There is absolutely no other way to spin it. Let's hope those rumors are false, but given the reported lack of communication, there's enough smoke here to think there might be some truth to what we're hearing.

This team is on the verge, Khalil. Take your $60 MM guarantee and $20 MM per and get to ####### work already.

:smdh:

 
LawFitz said:
 there's enough smoke here to think there might be some truth to what we're hearing.
Click to expand...
This is what I am worried about. Agree with all of you that we see this posturing happen every season, it's part of the business of football, and there is enough motivation on both sides to get the right deal done that pays Mack well for what he brings to the table without hamstringing the team cap-wise.

That said, perception sometimes becomes the reality, and if there is enough posturing and speculation, sourness/bitterness can form on either/both sides, which I'd really like to avoid as Mack is a generational talent who the team should be thinking about in terms of retaining him throughout his career. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
This is what I am worried about. Agree with all of you that we see this posturing happen every season, it's part of the business of football, and there is enough motivation on both sides to get the right deal done that pays Mack well for what he brings to the table without hamstringing the team cap-wise.

That said, perception sometimes becomes the reality, and if there is enough posturing and speculation, sourness/bitterness can form on either/both sides, which I'd really like to avoid as Mack is a generational talent who the team should be thinking about in terms of retaining him throughout his career. 
Click to expand...
I wonder if Derek would be willing to restructure after one year into his deal. If it would mean locking Mack up for a few years I think he'd do it. They could always give him a bump in pay down the road like what the Pat's just did with Brady. 

 
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