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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)

LawFitz said:
I will always be a Raider fan because it is in my nature to be loyal and stubborn. After the DHB pick I managed to emotionally detach from the team knowing they'd be effectively rudderless until Al moved on. I remember arguing with Raider-haters before that draft that even Al wasn't dumb enough to take a WR who can't catch in the top ten just because he ran a fast forty.

Fast forward a decade with renewed hope from Gruden's rehiring to the later rounds of this past draft to the amazing preseason defense - by recent Raider standards - and I felt a sense of optimism that once Mack was added to the fold, this could become a darkhorse championship level team. Perhaps that was terribly misguided. #### me if it was.

Then I found myself arguing again with Raider-haters that there was no way they'd trade Mack. Gruden was too smart to do that. #### me again. Raider haters win. There is no justifying this trade. Even if they actually hit on the picks, it was dumb. And the odds of them getting two decent starters out of those picks are about 25% by avg NFL standards. The odds of getting another Mack are zero. Or at least so close to zero that it might as well be. 

You do not trade a Khalil Mack in his prime. You just don't. It's as obvious as obvious gets and I've grown to hate that word as I've aged. Get off my lawn.
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Well said.  I've been a Raiders fan my whole life, and this hurts. 

But that said, what's done is done and we have a season to play.  I spent the holiday weekend brooding and now I'm all about being positive.  I'm gonna defend Gruden and pretend the trade either didn't happen or we'll use all the picks to be a monster when we hit Vegas.  Either way, this is how I feel now...Just like George

 
I don't think this had to do with Davis money flow. That was a rumor that hasn't had any substantial reporting or evidence to back it up. 

Another rumor is that this is all Gruden and Reggie had nothing to do it with. I do not buy that. I think this was a decision that there was a top figure they had in mind that they were comfortable with (and they being primarily Gruden and Reggie) and they stuck to it. This has shown in the past to be a hallmark for Reggie. He pays when he wants but will not chase players just to land them. How many times has Reggie made a run at a player and for us not to get them because another team pays more? For the good or the bad- this negotiation approach has Reggies fingerprints on it in my eyes. 

Yet another rumor is that Gruden is running the show and everyone else is on for the ride... Reggie, Davis and anyone else in the building. With yet again no evidence to support it. Gruden directly addressed it and laughed at it. Sure, is Gruden the driving force in the relationship? Yes. Davis told us as much. But do we just expect Gruden to be a tyrant that does not listen to those around him? Ok, if you do, why? What tells you that? 

Honestly- let's ask ourselves. How many teams pay top dollar to a QB and then give the highest defensive contract out as well? Why could the Bears give that contract- it is simple.... look at their roster. Anyone that may end up with huge contracts are on their rookie deals. Now, think about this. This all hinges on the Bears having Trubisky develop. If he does not then the Bears have just screwed themselves for the next 5 or 6 years. Why? Well... they won't have FA money to spend on a QB because they have so much tied into Mack and there is no backing out of that with as much as he is guaranteed. They most likely will not be able to draft one as hitting on 2nd round QB's like Carr is fairly rare. Then on the other side, If he does develop- guess what is going to happen.... they will have to extend him. Can they carry Mack, extend their QB and then keep Smith if he is as advertised? Likely not. Which brings us back to the Raiders: Remember, we need to re-sign some key players like Cooper and Jackson. Could we do that if we paid Mack the money he wanted? Maybe but at what cost to other players we would need to cut or not be able to sign in order to make it happen? 

People #####ed and moaned about Al having no restraint when it came to contracts. Now Reggie shows restraint and you guys are #####ing and moaning. Dang, draft comes around and all this #####ing and moaning about who we picked- and then all of a sudden you wimps turn around and sing praises when camp/pre-season shows that a lot of those picks seem to be hitting. We trade for Bryant and I didn't hear nashing of teeth and tears but then we cut him and it is the worst decision in football history. Come on now. 

Let me ask you guys- Are you a Raider or are you some whiny Donkey or spoiled Cheatriot? Yea, it sucks to lose Mack. Awesome player. Is it the end? No. Now man up. 

 
I have been a Raider fan for 40+ years.  I watched as Al messed with Marcus Allen, and now Mack.  This is not acceptable.  This is something the Jets organization would do.  I wish I could just pick a new team but that is not realistic as I bleed silver and black.  I am very very sick and disgusted over this move and now question anything Gruden does.  He gives a 3rd round pick for Bryant and then he is cut.  Everything seems a little "off" since Chucky has come back.....

Those saying the Raiders could not afford him, Mack plus Carr would be 20.1% of the cap, you can win with that and fill in the rest...

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Obviously they’d have to trade & sign him - but he’d be a lot less $ than Mack, and they’d essentially flip a 1st for Bell, immediately improving the offense, giving Carr another 80+ reception receiver that they desperately need & adding a superstar talent at RB. Lynch could still serve a valuable role. Unless you think Brandon LaFell is the answer? (If he is, you’re probably asking the wrong question)

Every team needs Bell. If the Steelers don’t want to pay him, and the Raiders have a chance to strike guaranteed gold with one of those picks they just got, they should do so immediately IMO. 
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Obviously, I would love a talent like Bell with the Raiders.  But, I have very little faith that Gruden would manage Bell's attitude.  The way he handled Mack was pathetic.  You do not just ignore the best player on your team for months if he turns down your initial offer.  You try to work it out.  If it does not work out, at least you demonstrated that you are a true leader and care about the good of the team.  

LaFell is just another reason not to like Gruden.  We ended up with LaFell because Gruden threw his WR3 eggs in the too-high-to-get-it-right Bryant basket.  Now our WR corps is just butter fingers and the old man.  We end up with nothing and the Steelers get richer.  This is why the NFL is filled with perpetual winners and perpetual losers.  The Steelers look ahead.  They are planning for life without Bryant and Bell.  They drafted Conner and Washington.   The Raiders were desperate and just hoped Bryant would stop smoking.  Now, the Raiders WR3 has gone up in smoke too. 

 
massraider said:
This would be a incredible waste of resources.
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Would it?

you don’t think the Raiders offense would be markedly better with Bell?

i like Lynch. I like the backup RB in Oakland. 

Neither hold a candle to Bell. Raiders gave a good run blocking OL - Bell would be a monster. And a great dump-off option for Carr.

who in the 2019 draft will be better than Bell? 

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Would it?

you don’t think the Raiders offense would be markedly better with Bell?

i like Lynch. I like the backup RB in Oakland. 

Neither hold a candle to Bell. Raiders gave a good run blocking OL - Bell would be a monster. And a great dump-off option for Carr.

who in the 2019 draft will be better than Bell? 
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He's on a one year deal, and cannot realistically be franchised again. 

Renting a RB for one year, for a 1st round pick?

Dude.

 
massraider said:
He's on a one year deal, and cannot realistically be franchised again. 

Renting a RB for one year, for a 1st round pick?

Dude.
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Good point - but if they could trade & sign to longer term I think it’d be worth it. 

Bell is looking for that contract, so in my hypothetical he’d get paid by the Raiders for. 3-4 year deal.

otherskse he’d just sit out for the Raiders too. 

Sorry, I thought that was implied. 

 
LaFell is just another reason not to like Gruden.  We ended up with LaFell because Gruden threw his WR3 eggs in the too-high-to-get-it-right Bryant basket.  Now our WR corps is just butter fingers and the old man.  We end up with nothing and the Steelers get richer.  This is why the NFL is filled with perpetual winners and perpetual losers.  The Steelers look ahead.  They are planning for life without Bryant and Bell.  They drafted Conner and Washington.   The Raiders were desperate and just hoped Bryant would stop smoking.  Now, the Raiders WR3 has gone up in smoke too. 
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That was kind of my point. They still need a reliable receiver. 

That trade was a disaster for the word go. I texted my best friend /raider fan during the draft and he was speechless. 

When he finally had something to say, he was apoplectic. I’ve never seen him that mad, and I’ve know the dude for 30+ years.  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
IMO if Gruden was really a genius maybe he’d be on the phone with Pittsburgh right now trying to flip one of those 1st round picks for Bell. 
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IMO if Gruden was really a genius maybe he'd be on the phone with Pittsburgh right now and say, "Hey, we gave you a third for what ended up being nothing. Can you give us Bell?"

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
If we couldn't find a way of freeing up space to keep Mack, we shouldn't throw that money after Bell. Doesn't make sense to me, especially since we have our back of the future.

And that back's name? Chris Warren III.
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Stop with Warren is the future stuff.  His knee was ‘wearing on him’. Not good.  No clear cut injury definition. Makes wonder if it was micro fracture surgery.  Edit to add:  what knee injury did he have in college?   George Atkinson III looked great in the preseason. 

And I dont want bell either. Head case, hold out, trouble.  Our woes will be on defense anyway. 

 
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Chadstroma said:
As long as he picks up pass blocking you nailed it. 
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I am not an expert on how his pass pro game was in college, but from draft profiles I read it seems like he flashed blocking ability, has sound mechanics in sitting low, and just needs more fire in his belly to "want" to beat his guy more in the blocking game and obtain a little more nastiness to his demeanor overall. Downsides in his game that were called out were more around lack of pure burst and his one-cut ability/needing to react faster to traffic as a runner -- not anything regarding pass pro probs. You would think he got a lot of practice in college as Texas and Big 12 run a lot of gun/spread formations where a single back would need to protect, but he sat behind Foreman so maybe just lacks reps. 

And from the games I saw -- televised and live -- he was not a liability in this area when on the field.

Bottom line? He's no Ahmad Bradshaw (who was superb in this area) but also not CJ2K (who was often terrible in this area).

I think we saw a lot of nastiness in his run game in terms of churning his legs through contact, trucking guys, so while he may not have it all in pass pro yet, looks like he's developing a nasty edge. Lynch is a good mentor in this regard.

Outside of the Key/Hurst/Hall triumvirate and how that develops, Warren is the guy I am most excited about for our future. Hope he heals quickly and well as he proved to me he's got some serious game.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Stop with Warren is the future stuff.  His knee was ‘wearing on him’. Not good.  No clear cut injury definition. Makes wonder if it was micro fracture surgery. George Atkinson III looked great in the preseason. 
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Feel free to ignore it then. 

I'll agree it's not good that a guy who was often dinged in college is now nicked, and the undisclosed nature of the injury is sketchy, but I wonder if it's more to do with being cagey in order to stash him on IR (as opposed to cutting him) than a possible long-term injury worry.

Either way, you're not going to move me from being excited about a young guy with great potential that clearly deserves the praise given his performance -- especially given the prevalence of things to moan about on this team recently.

We need more positivity, not less.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Feel free to ignore it then. 

I'll agree it's not good that a guy who was often dinged in college is now nicked, and the undisclosed nature of the injury is sketchy, but I wonder if it's more to do with being cagey in order to stash him on IR (as opposed to cutting him) than a possible long-term injury worry.

Either way, you're not going to move me from being excited about a young guy with great potential that clearly deserves the praise given his performance -- especially given the prevalence of things to moan about on this team recently.

We need more positivity, not less.
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fair enough.  i just don't put much stock in an UDFA that has had 2 season ending knee injuries.  it's like dumb ### gruden saying, maybe we'll see bryant in 2019.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
fair enough.  i just don't put much stock in an UDFA that has had 2 season ending knee injuries. 
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Rightfully so. But sometimes you see a RB that just sort of pops off the screen. 

Limited -- very limited -- number of carries his junior/senior year at UT? Check

Undrafted and out of nowhere - Check

Two Knee Procedures - Check 

Running against twos - Check 

But I've seen few people pop off the screen like that against the twos in preseason and in 2012, I almost won my FF leeg by watching Antonio Brown pop off the screen in preseason and quickly hitting the "add as a FA" button. 

And he wasn't integrated into their offense that year until Week Six, then dominated from then on. 

 
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DA RAIDERS said:
Stop with Warren is the future stuff.  His knee was ‘wearing on him’. Not good.  No clear cut injury definition. Makes wonder if it was micro fracture surgery.  Edit to add:  what knee injury did he have in college?   George Atkinson III looked great in the preseason. 

And I dont want bell either. Head case, hold out, trouble.  Our woes will be on defense anyway. 
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Dude. How do you come out negative about Warren? For crying out loud. Kid showed TONS of potential. Enough to make the roster and he earned it. 

Go detox. Inhale good and exhale bad and get in touch with your inner child or whatever else you need to do. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
fair enough.  i just don't put much stock in an UDFA that has had 2 season ending knee injuries.  
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@Chadstroma see above.  

Loved his preseason.  I hope he’s back healthy and kills it. I’m not holding my breath, however. 

 
BustedKnuckles said:
lets see what the product looks like after MN ...THEN we can either say ...''hey...not to shabby''...or...''oh ####...here we go again''
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Love the attitude. I'm with ya.

That said, I think I'll wait until Week 2 when they are not playing a team stacked with talent on both sides of the ball and a front-running SB contender.

Speaking of which, while I have every expectations of getting our a$$es handed to us by the Rams, and not confident we'll beat the Chargers on the road in WK5, I still think there is a decent shot for us to go 4-2 into our bye, with teams like the Broncos, Dolphins, Browns, and Seahawks on our early schedule.

They will all challenge us as we're not so special, but all of those are winnable games.

 
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Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Love the attitude. I'm with ya.

That said, I think I'll wait until Week 2 when they are not playing a team stacked with talent on both sides of the ball and a front-running SB contender.

Speaking of which, while I have every expectations of getting our a$$es handed to us by the Rams, and not confident we'll beat the Chargers on the road in WK5, I still think there is a decent shot for us to go 4-2 into our bye, with teams like the Broncos, Dolphins, Browns, and Seahawks on our early schedule.

They will all challenge us as we're not so special, but all of those are winnable games.
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As long as we smash the Dolphins ill be happy

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
massraider said:
He's on a one year deal, and cannot realistically be franchised again. 

Renting a RB for one year, for a 1st round pick?

Dude.
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Good point - but if they could trade & sign to longer term I think it’d be worth it. 

Bell is looking for that contract, so in my hypothetical he’d get paid by the Raiders for. 3-4 year deal.

otherskse he’d just sit out for the Raiders too. 

Sorry, I thought that was implied
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AFAIK he has not signed his tender and as such PIT cannot trade him as there is no signed contract.

 
I don't like to post paid content, but making an exception due to the level of Raider dissing, specifically this writeup by John Norton in WK 1 Eyes of the Guru IDP report:

OAKLAND RAIDERS

When looking at the already dismal on paper Raiders defense without Kahlil Mack; the first thing that comes to mind is who on my roster is playing against them? The second thing that comes to mind is who is going to make all the tackles? History proves even the worst NFL defenses on paper are rarely as bad on the field as expected. This unit could be the exception. Tahir Whitehead is not a big play guy but he could lead the league in solo stops if the defensive tackles can keep the blocker off the second level. By the same token, Karl Joseph will never have a better opportunity to produce and get his career back on track.
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I have tremendous respect for Norton, he has proven to me to have consistently solid analysis and advice, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And it is true from a fantasy perspective that our D doesn't have many, if any, individual standouts that at this point in time, I would draft in IDP leagues as a dependable starter.

But for all of my fears and worries, having seen this unit in action in preseason, I have to disagree with this take and others (USA Today, Yahoo, etc.) that have us as a bottom barrel NFL D.

We will go through a lot of growing pains, and the loss of Mack is a huge set-back, but I don't think we're dismal or the proverbial defensive rug everyone is going to walk all over.

Bottom third? Probably. But not dead last/second last in the league, as we're being depicted.

Are my glasses too rosy here?

 
Your glasses are fine. After QB, coaching is the biggest difference maker in football. 

Guenther + Hall/Key/Hurst > KNJ + Mack

Not one NFL analyst seems to realize this. Yet.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I don't like to post paid content, but making an exception due to the level of Raider dissing, specifically this writeup by John Norton in WK 1 Eyes of the Guru IDP report:

I have tremendous respect for Norton, he has proven to me to have consistently solid analysis and advice, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. And it is true from a fantasy perspective that our D doesn't have many, if any, individual standouts that at this point in time, I would draft in IDP leagues as a dependable starter.

But for all of my fears and worries, having seen this unit in action in preseason, I have to disagree with this take and others (USA Today, Yahoo, etc.) that have us as a bottom barrel NFL D.

We will go through a lot of growing pains, and the loss of Mack is a huge set-back, but I don't think we're dismal or the proverbial defensive rug everyone is going to walk all over.

Bottom third? Probably. But not dead last/second last in the league, as we're being depicted.

Are my glasses too rosy here?
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All the talking heads and experts are bashing the Raiders right now. Nate Burleson, flat out called them stupid and dumb on TV this morning. What these fools aren't talking about, is all the turnover on defense and all new coaches and schemes. This is not the same defense as the last couple years. I'm not saying they're going to be good this year, but they won't be as bad as the haters are predicting. 

 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the defense will be nearly as bad as is being expected seemingly everywhere.  And I'm seeing articles that this is the worst offseason any team has ever had and stuff like that.  I am still on board with Gruden's plan and hopefully the Raiders can prove everyone wrong.  Absolutely everyone is piling on and I am still excited and will reserve judgement until we at least see this team in action for a few weeks.

 
msommer said:
AFAIK he has not signed his tender and as such PIT cannot trade him as there is no signed contract.
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That’s correct - any deal would require a “sign & trade”. 

So if he wanted to get paid they’d have to work all of that out - and as others have mentioned, I’m not sure the Raiders are capable of such complex negotiations. That’s putting it politely. Another way to put it is that the Gruden-led Raiders couldn’t find their @$$ with a map.  :doh:  

 
ICON211 said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the defense will be nearly as bad as is being expected seemingly everywhere.  And I'm seeing articles that this is the worst offseason any team has ever had and stuff like that.  I am still on board with Gruden's plan and hopefully the Raiders can prove everyone wrong.  Absolutely everyone is piling on and I am still excited and will reserve judgement until we at least see this team in action for a few weeks.
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They should be decent.

But they’ll be a shell of what they could have been with Mack.

Mack is the kind of player other teams scheme for. And because they so frequently chip Mack with a 2nd defender (roll a TE over to help block or straight double-team with a 2nd OL) Mack is also the kind of player that makes everyone around him better. 

that trade just made life a lot less stressful for every OL coach on the Raiders schedule. I’m positive they will all get an extra hour of sleep before they face Oakland this year. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
They should be decent.

But they’ll be a shell of what they could have been with Mack.

Mack is the kind of player other teams scheme for. And because they so frequently chip Mack with a 2nd defender (roll a TE over to help block or straight double-team with a 2nd OL) Mack is also the kind of player that makes everyone around him better. 

that trade just made life a lot less stressful for every OL coach on the Raiders schedule. I’m positive they will all get an extra hour of sleep before they face Oakland this year. 
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Offensive coordinators haven't lost any sleep playing a Raider defense since 1976. Especially the last couple years, they were horrible! Even with Mack. All teams had to do was get him blocked and someone was going to be wide open. If they couldn't get him blocked they use quick passes to TEs and RBs. I've spent the last, I don't know how many years, watching Oakland defenses get shredded by TEs and RBs. 

Would everyone feel better if we paid one guy $140 mil a year and still go 5-11? At least now when the Raiders suck they're not throwing a bunch of money down the tubes and have a couple 1st round pick to at least instill a small glimmer of hope.

 
Bruno2 said:
Offensive coordinators haven't lost any sleep playing a Raider defense since 1976. Especially the last couple years, they were horrible! Even with Mack.
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The first part of this is from Sean Peyton, when Peter King interviewed him: 

“

“The last time we played Oakland [Week 1 2016], we put in a special protection for him,” Payton said. If Mack lined up outside the right tackle to rush, the Saints’ tight end would line up on the right side and chip him as he rushed. If Mack lined up opposite the left tackle, the tight end would shift left. The Saints called it “Mack Protection” in the gameplan that week.”

That strategy worked, sort of. Mack only recorded two pressures in that game, but it also freed up Bruce Irvin (Mack’s edge rushing teammate who tweeted “no f—ing way” after the trade) to notch one sack and four total pressures, per Pro Football Focus.

Having a tight end follow Mack around is one strategy used by opposing coaches to try to limit his impact on a game. Bears coach Matt Nagy was been a part of those strategic discussions for four years with the Kansas City Chiefs, when playing Mack (and Von Miller) twice a year was a headache-inducing fact of life in the AFC West.

So what’s the best strategy of stopping Mack?

“Put, like, three guys on him,” Nagy said.

Nagy expanded on that thought on Monday.

“We had several ideas and thoughts that we used in that gameplan when we played them,” Nagy said. “So that's hard because now you're going in one-on-ones in other places and when teams have other good players. And he does that — you're taking one for the team, essentially. Again you'll see, there's times when people put like three guys on him and you're taking away a receiver somehow, some way in the pass game."

Those three players could be a tackle, a tight end and a running back, with the latter two needing to work in pass protection to make sure the quarterback stays upright. Or it could be a tackle and a guard working to double-team him, exposing another offensive lineman to a one-on-one matchup with an edge rusher.

No matter what a team does, though, Mack is a problem. It can become a game of pick your poison, since you can only commit so many players to stopping one guy. And even then, Mack has shown an ability to beat double, and even triple, teams to still pressure a quarterback.

“He's a hell of a player that plays fast, that makes usually try to — you have to know where he's at, you just do,” Nagy said. “He demands that from offenses. … I think you'll see, foremost, offensive coordinators/play callers/players, they respect the heck out of them because they know he's a good player.

“When you respect a guy like that, you try to have an answer for it, and sometimes that takes more than one person to do that. And then you've got to be able to trust in that.

“But that's no secret. That's just what everybody does.”

—————————————

sure sounds like opponents schemed for Mack quite a bit to me.  :shrug:

 
^^^^

I realize all that and I saw the same interview. The point I'm trying to make is once Mack gets blocked, the rest of the D is swiss cheese. And that's what's been happening. 

 
Bruno2 said:
^^^^

I realize all that and I saw the same interview. The point I'm trying to make is once Mack gets blocked, the rest of the D is swiss cheese. And that's what's been happening. 
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I disagree. - Raiders have struggled  against TEs forever, but this was a unit on the rise with Mack as he made everyone around him better. 

A great pass rush can really help a mediocre secondary, force 2-3rd & long situations, force mistakes with pressure, force fumbles - Mack literally made that whole defense better. I had them as an above average (if a little long in the tooth) unit coming into the season.

Without Mack they’re at the bottom of the league in my estimation. I could be mistaken, but that’s just a massive hit to this unit. 

 
Cannot believe any Raider fan is trying to defend the Mack move.  You do not give up the best defensive player in the league if you want to win in 2018 - 2020.  Who are all these great players that we are going to have to pay large chunks of money to in the near future?  Cooper? 

In a few years, when Mack is old and not the greatest player on D in the NFL any longer, losing him will not hurt.  Of course, when he is making his speech in Canton, OH, the sting will be back. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I disagree. - Raiders have struggled  against TEs forever, but this was a unit on the rise with Mack as he made everyone around him better. 

A great pass rush can really help a mediocre secondary, force 2-3rd & long situations, force mistakes with pressure, force fumbles - Mack literally made that whole defense better. I had them as an above average (if a little long in the tooth) unit coming into the season.

Without Mack they’re at the bottom of the league in my estimation. I could be mistaken, but that’s just a massive hit to this unit. 
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Look, I agree, Mack is a bad, bad man. I'm sad to see him go. But they weren't willing to pay him QB money. Denver, Houston and Miami spent big money on a defensive player and it got them mediocrity. New England won't, and I think they've done pretty well.

I'm just a fan, I don't know what the right move was. But I'm not jumping ship. If I need to spin this a little to make myself feel better I will.

 
DocHolliday said:
Cannot believe any Raider fan is trying to defend the Mack move.  You do not give up the best defensive player in the league if you want to win in 2018 - 2020.  Who are all these great players that we are going to have to pay large chunks of money to in the near future?  Cooper? 

In a few years, when Mack is old and not the greatest player on D in the NFL any longer, losing him will not hurt.  Of course, when he is making his speech in Canton, OH, the sting will be back. 
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What other choice is there? I agree with everything everyone is saying about Mack. It's not easy being a Raider fan

 
I'm just a fan, I don't know what the right move was. But I'm not jumping ship. If I need to spin this a little to make myself feel better I will.
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A fair response & one I respect.

Not intending to salt a wound - i tend to look at any team clinically when posting on here, even my own favorite.

i know it stings when stuff like this happens - this one’s a brutal, head-scratching move. 

 
DocHolliday said:
Cannot believe any Raider fan is trying to defend the Mack move.  You do not give up the best defensive player in the league if you want to win in 2018 - 2020.  Who are all these great players that we are going to have to pay large chunks of money to in the near future?  Cooper? 

In a few years, when Mack is old and not the greatest player on D in the NFL any longer, losing him will not hurt.  Of course, when he is making his speech in Canton, OH, the sting will be back. 
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I don't agree with the decision either. But I can see the defense of it -- too much tied up in a non-QB player, would force cap issues soon after being so diligent to clear our cap space over the last few years, gave us the "right" price, etc.

Again, I would have much rather us keep this generational talent and restructure Gruden's contract if capital was an issue because we're not going to find another Mack in the draft -- but while inadvisable and very sad, I don't think the move is completely unjustifiable. 

 
Well at least the Mack/Raider contract issues never reached the current state of affairs with Bell and the Steelers... Steelers players are being less than respectful on social media after reports of Bell holding out until week 10.

 
A lot of talk about how badly they'll miss Mack and how good the defense will or won't be and one post about a low bar. Well, here's my low bar statement for the defense for the 2018 season:

I just hope they can cover people (especially the TE) and tackle people, two things they haven't been able to do even with Mack and for years before without him.

 
Ed Wood said:
A lot of talk about how badly they'll miss Mack and how good the defense will or won't be and one post about a low bar. Well, here's my low bar statement for the defense for the 2018 season:

I just hope they can cover people (especially the TE) and tackle people, two things they haven't been able to do even with Mack and for years before without him.
Click to expand...
people were pretty excited about Arden Key....Maurice Hurst....P.J. Hall....Bruce Irvin...all of a sudden they are warm milk?

 
We might not see it week 1 (given the opponent) but this defense is going to be better than it has been in years. Just look at how much they instantly improved midseason last year under Pagano vs. KNJ/JDR to evidence the power of coaching and scheme.

I wish Guenther had Mack, but already in preseason with vanilla schemes, they looked leaps better in terms of TEAM defense. They tackled, they held assignments and prior underachieving talents displayed tremendous progression. I'm hopeful. Let's see what happens.

 
krsone21 said:
THREE TAKEAWAYS FROM NFL AGENTS ON THE KHALIL MACK TRADE

This is an interesting read.
Click to expand...
GREAT read. I love the different perspective in talking to agents. You get a good feel for the true realities of the 'business' side or rather the cap management and negotiations of contracts. It brings a lot of real insight of the rational thinking and perspective of the Raider org in this and not the freaking cry baby whiners (or maybe just the heart broken teenage girls trying to get over the first break up?) that repeatedly is hitting this thread. Yes, I am sick of it. Really sick of it. A lot of good guys in here need to freaking get over it. 

Seriously. 

I don't know if you are the same guys that were crying back in the day when Al threw money and more money after players to get them to come play. I lean towards thinking you were. 

 
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