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General Plumbing Questions - Next Up: Whole Home Water Filtration (1 Viewer)

The Commish

The Commish

Footballguy
I am hoping we have some plumbers around here as plumbing is sort of new to me.  It doesn't seem difficult, but I do have a couple questions.  We moved into this house in June and I know I am going to have to be replacing the water heater in the not too distant future, so I was looking at the piping.  I see a pipe coming out of the wall with a knob on it running into the water heater.  I assume that's the cold water and the knob is there so I don't have to treck out to the water meter and turn the water off to service/replace the water heater.  I see another pipe going out of the water heater back into the same wall.  I assume that's the "hot" since the pipe is warm etc.

Back to the pipe coming out of the wall with the knob.  Just prior to it going into the tank, it branches off and runs down the side of the tank where it meets what I assume is the overflow protection tube.  They join together and then the pipe runs directly out the exterior wall, outside the house.  So my first question is, why would it branch off from the cold water supply to run out the side of the house?  Is that to combat too much pressure coming in from the water supply to the house?

My second question is, where the heck is my cold water supply to the house?  Is it right to guess that it branches off in the wall?  If that's the case, does that mean for me to turn the cold water off for the house, I have to go out to the meter and shut it off?  I haven't found another valve anywhere in our this house.  Am I on the right track here?

Thanks...will answer yours!  :thumbup:     

 
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Sure you don’t have a spigot outside for a hose fed by the line that goes outside? 

I cannot believe you don’t have a shutoff valve inside the house, regardless of where your meter is. There gotta be one somewhere.

excess pressure to a water heater is usually handled with an expansion tank that sits inline above the water heater, but I don’t know what the code calls for in your area. Not all older homes will have one.

 
Rustoleum said:
Sure you don’t have a spigot outside for a hose fed by the line that goes outside? 

I cannot believe you don’t have a shutoff valve inside the house, regardless of where your meter is. There gotta be one somewhere.

excess pressure to a water heater is usually handled with an expansion tank that sits inline above the water heater, but I don’t know what the code calls for in your area. Not all older homes will have one.
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Positive.  The only places I haven't looked for a valve is in the attic.  I feel like that'd be a monumentally stupid place to have one though.

 
I have a water shut off valve just outside my house.  There is also one at the street near the meter but the main shutoff valve for the house is just outside where the line enters the house.  It is not inside the house.

 
Soulfly3 said:
AFAIK, there is only ONE water supply to the house. not a hot and cold.

it becomes hot at the water heater.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know there is one supply to the house.  What I am asking is since I don't see a split of the cold water coming into the hot water tank, is it correct to assume that it splits off in the wall somewhere (prior to coming out of the wall to go to the heater).  I know cold water fills the tank...it's not THAT new to me ;)   

For example, in my old house, the cold came into the house, there was a shutoff valve, then immediately after the shut off the cold water line split.  One path went to the hot water heater, the other went back into the house to service the cold water.  I don't see any of that in this house, so I am wondering if that split is happening in the wall before coming out to the HWH.

 
The Commish said:
Rustoleum said:
Sure you don’t have a spigot outside for a hose fed by the line that goes outside? 

I cannot believe you don’t have a shutoff valve inside the house, regardless of where your meter is. There gotta be one somewhere.

excess pressure to a water heater is usually handled with an expansion tank that sits inline above the water heater, but I don’t know what the code calls for in your area. Not all older homes will have one.
Click to expand...
Positive.  The only places I haven't looked for a valve is in the attic.  I feel like that'd be a monumentally stupid place to have one though.
Click to expand...
Actually, now I am not so positive.  I just looked down the side of the house further and I DO see a spigot covered up by a bunch of bushes.  I need to give you a picture I think.  

 
belljr said:
Where is your physical meter?
Click to expand...
On the other side of my drive way.....about 40 feet onto our property.  So it has to travel under the driveway and into the house somewhere.  I'm not even sure where it comes in.  The only exposed pipes I see (not in the attic) are in the garage.

 
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Your meter isn't in the house?  That's weird. 

Do you live somewhere warm where it won't freeze?

 
Link

So a pic of the water heater and the second one is directly on the other side of the wall from the water heater, just outside my garage.

 
That looks like a back flow preventer that is connecting  to the pressure release and going outside

No clue if that is code.

And you would have to try and follow your pipes in the garage to look for shut off. 

But each sink/bathroom should have one.

I'm guessing your meter one is the main.

My meter one is the main but it's in my basement

 
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The doohickey in front of the shutoff valve is a check valve to keep the water in the heater from backing up into the cold water supply. If water starts flowing up from the heater it will branch off into the other pipe and flow outside instead of contaminating the supply to the rest of the house

If your house has a crawl space, the shutoff valve is probably under there. If you're on a slab, check under the kitchen sink or in the laundry room. What's on the other side of the wall the supply pipe is coming from?

 
Vacuum breaker

There will be a box on your property, inside will b your meter and a shut-off.  Some place, probably where one of your garden hoses hooks up, there will be a pipe coming out of the ground.  There is probably a shut-off there as well

 
NFL-ons said:
Vacuum breaker

There will be a box on your property, inside will b your meter and a shut-off.  Some place, probably where one of your garden hoses hooks up, there will be a pipe coming out of the ground.  There is probably a shut-off there as well
Click to expand...
Right...I know where this is and that's what I was asking about before.  If that's where I have to go to shut off all water in the house.  That's fine, but this is the first house I've ever had where I had to go out to the meter.  Regardless, if this is true that means, somewhere in the walls of the house is where the cold water splits off to service the house and the hot water heater.  That's my guess at the moment.  

I have three or four spots where I can hook up hoses.  I've never heard of this before, so I'll go look tomorrow.

 
Gally said:
I have a water shut off valve just outside my house.  There is also one at the street near the meter but the main shutoff valve for the house is just outside where the line enters the house.  It is not inside the house.
Click to expand...
Same here

 
So I found this back behind some overgrown shrubs.  This is relatively close to the spigot I found last night.  I just missed it in the dark.  It's probably 15ish feet down the same wall the water heater sits on.  If this is the water, I have to say, I've never seen a main made out of PVC.

So, if what I have found here is indeed the water, that means it splits in the wall.  That means the only cold water pipe I have exposure to is coming out of the wall to the water heater.  This brings up my next question.  I have a fridge in my garage that has an ice maker.  I ran the lines in my old house to get water to it, but I had a nice clean point of access to cold water supply right behind where my fridge was going to be.  Is it ok/proper to tap into the cold water line running into the hot water heater to feed the ice maker?  I can't think of a reason it's a bad idea, but I might be missing something.  Thoughts?

 
The Commish said:
So I found this back behind some overgrown shrubs.  This is relatively close to the spigot I found last night.  I just missed it in the dark.  It's probably 15ish feet down the same wall the water heater sits on.  If this is the water, I have to say, I've never seen a main made out of PVC.

So, if what I have found here is indeed the water, that means it splits in the wall.  That means the only cold water pipe I have exposure to is coming out of the wall to the water heater.  This brings up my next question.  I have a fridge in my garage that has an ice maker.  I ran the lines in my old house to get water to it, but I had a nice clean point of access to cold water supply right behind where my fridge was going to be.  Is it ok/proper to tap into the cold water line running into the hot water heater to feed the ice maker?  I can't think of a reason it's a bad idea, but I might be missing something.  Thoughts?
Click to expand...
My whole house is CPVC   :unsure:

 
dawgtrails said:
Seems like a good place to put this. What is this? Old water main? Old gas inlet? Thing sticks out like 8 inches and is annoying. Can I cut it back and recap?

https://imgur.com/a/ZS4wf
Click to expand...
I'm going to assume that since it's threaded it's gas. Not sure though.

If it's a retired gas service it should be retired at the main too which means you should be able to cut it. All that said, I wouldn't cut it without having the gas co come check it out. Or at the very least, take the plug out and see whats up

 
belljr said:
The Commish said:
So I found this back behind some overgrown shrubs.  This is relatively close to the spigot I found last night.  I just missed it in the dark.  It's probably 15ish feet down the same wall the water heater sits on.  If this is the water, I have to say, I've never seen a main made out of PVC.

So, if what I have found here is indeed the water, that means it splits in the wall.  That means the only cold water pipe I have exposure to is coming out of the wall to the water heater.  This brings up my next question.  I have a fridge in my garage that has an ice maker.  I ran the lines in my old house to get water to it, but I had a nice clean point of access to cold water supply right behind where my fridge was going to be.  Is it ok/proper to tap into the cold water line running into the hot water heater to feed the ice maker?  I can't think of a reason it's a bad idea, but I might be missing something.  Thoughts?
Click to expand...
My whole house is CPVC   :unsure:
Click to expand...
I just know that PVC and the sunlight, do not a good combo make.  I was surprised to see it.  Well, now that's out of the way, I need to figure out how to supply my ice maker and then move on to the electrical switches that seem to do nothing.  :kicksrock:  

 
The Commish said:
Yes, I know there is one supply to the house.  What I am asking is since I don't see a split of the cold water coming into the hot water tank, is it correct to assume that it splits off in the wall somewhere (prior to coming out of the wall to go to the heater).  I know cold water fills the tank...it's not THAT new to me ;)   

For example, in my old house, the cold came into the house, there was a shutoff valve, then immediately after the shut off the cold water line split.  One path went to the hot water heater, the other went back into the house to service the cold water.  I don't see any of that in this house, so I am wondering if that split is happening in the wall before coming out to the HWH.
Click to expand...
Do you suppose the split just prior to the hot water heater, that goes into the wall, could be the cold water supply to the rest of the house?

eta: NM, just read that it was a check valve and overflow pipe.

 
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The Commish said:
I just know that PVC and the sunlight, do not a good combo make.  I was surprised to see it.  Well, now that's out of the way, I need to figure out how to supply my ice maker and then move on to the electrical switches that seem to do nothing.  :kicksrock:  
Click to expand...
They don't?  Don't tell my pool plumbing. :unsure:  

 
dawgtrails said:
Seems like a good place to put this. What is this? Old water main? Old gas inlet? Thing sticks out like 8 inches and is annoying. Can I cut it back and recap?

https://imgur.com/a/ZS4wf
Click to expand...


Cowboysfan8 said:
I'm going to assume that since it's threaded it's gas. Not sure though.

If it's a retired gas service it should be retired at the main too which means you should be able to cut it. All that said, I wouldn't cut it without having the gas co come check it out. Or at the very least, take the plug out and see whats up
Click to expand...
It's too big to be gas. It looks like a sewer line with the stub angled off being a cleanout.

 
DaVinci said:
It's too big to be gas. It looks like a sewer line with the stub angled off being a cleanout.
Click to expand...
Looks like 1 in steel to me on my phone. Idk

I've replaced hundreds of 1 in steel gas lines with plastic at my previous job , they were pretty ancient though and fed off low pressure mains

 
dawgtrails said:
no, side yard, but at the very front corner. same as gas. gas meter is on side of the house. 
Click to expand...
Huh

Well if it was in my basement and annoying me I'd take the plug out and see what's up. Good chance it's nothing and you can cut it back to the wall, then you can hydraulic cement or spray foam it

 
Talk to me about whole home water filtration systems.  We are in Florida.  Incredibly hard water and all the original fixtures need to be replaced.  It's not a question of if rather when.  So before I put in new fixtures, I am thinking it might be a good idea to get a home filtration system.  Anyone have any experience with these things?

 
Nothing on this?  Bummer....I need some guidance.  The internet seems to be all over the place on these things :kicksrock:  

 
parasaurolophus said:
Is the water softener not helping?
Click to expand...
Not sure what you're asking.  My wife does have some powder etc for the laundry.  Prior to using that everything had a faint, sort of funky smell.  My larger focus though is on all the other appliances and fixtures etc in the house.  Every single one has mineral build up in various parts of them and I don't really want to replace them all if they are just going to get all jacked up again.  I've replaced the inner workings of a couple of faucets, but that's a PITA and something looks like it might have to be done every few years.  No thanks!

 
The Commish said:
Not sure what you're asking.  My wife does have some powder etc for the laundry.  Prior to using that everything had a faint, sort of funky smell.  My larger focus though is on all the other appliances and fixtures etc in the house.  Every single one has mineral build up in various parts of them and I don't really want to replace them all if they are just going to get all jacked up again.  I've replaced the inner workings of a couple of faucets, but that's a PITA and something looks like it might have to be done every few years.  No thanks!
Click to expand...
So when you say whole house filtration do you mean a reverse osmosis filter or just a water softener? 

So you know what a water softener is? They are fairly inexpensive and an easy DIY. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
So when you say whole house filtration do you mean a reverse osmosis filter or just a water softener? 

So you know what a water softener is? They are fairly inexpensive and an easy DIY. 
Click to expand...
I know virtually nothing about plumbing outside how to hook things together and make them work.  My ultimate goal is to have water that isn't riddled with minerals that build up in my faucets, tubs, showers, dishwasher, toilets, ice maker, washing machine etc.  I don't know what the best answer is.  I figured something that would filter that crap out was a good step, but I am open to suggestions.  I have seen "water softener" in the laundry isle of the store, but that's about all I know and that's what I thought you were talking about.

 
The Commish said:
I know virtually nothing about plumbing outside how to hook things together and make them work.  My ultimate goal is to have water that isn't riddled with minerals that build up in my faucets, tubs, showers, dishwasher, toilets, ice maker, washing machine etc.  I don't know what the best answer is.  I figured something that would filter that crap out was a good step, but I am open to suggestions.  I have seen "water softener" in the laundry isle of the store, but that's about all I know and that's what I thought you were talking about.
Click to expand...
Here is what i have. https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-40-000-Grain-Water-Softener-GXSH40V/203219780 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Here is what i have. https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-40-000-Grain-Water-Softener-GXSH40V/203219780 
Click to expand...
So dumb question, I think.  At what point in your water lines does this thing get installed?  It seems to me that it would be installed as early as possible, so right after it comes in the house right?  The line comes into our house at my daughter's bedroom and somewhere in the wall, it splits.  Cold water then goes to the rest of the house and to my hot water heater.  Ultimately, I'd want it before the split right?  Because if I didn't then only my hot water would be treated by this thing and the cold water would still be "hard".  So I'd need to find that split and do a little replumbing I think.  :oldunsure:  

 
The Commish said:
So dumb question, I think.  At what point in your water lines does this thing get installed?  It seems to me that it would be installed as early as possible, so right after it comes in the house right?  The line comes into our house at my daughter's bedroom and somewhere in the wall, it splits.  Cold water then goes to the rest of the house and to my hot water heater.  Ultimately, I'd want it before the split right?  Because if I didn't then only my hot water would be treated by this thing and the cold water would still be "hard".  So I'd need to find that split and do a little replumbing I think.  :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
It would go

Line coming in -> filtration system -> softener system -> water heater.

 
belljr said:
It would go

Line coming in -> filtration system -> softener system -> water heater.
Click to expand...
That's what I was afraid of.  So, it seems that the line coming in the house splits in the wall.  I'm not exactly sure, but all I know is that the only exposed line I have is the small one coming out of the wall to the hot water heater.  So this means for me to even do something like this, I need to get to the line in the wall and do some replumbing, right?  That sucks....might hire someone if we go this route.

 
The Commish said:
So dumb question, I think.  At what point in your water lines does this thing get installed?  It seems to me that it would be installed as early as possible, so right after it comes in the house right?  The line comes into our house at my daughter's bedroom and somewhere in the wall, it splits.  Cold water then goes to the rest of the house and to my hot water heater.  Ultimately, I'd want it before the split right?  Because if I didn't then only my hot water would be treated by this thing and the cold water would still be "hard".  So I'd need to find that split and do a little replumbing I think.  :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
Is there no water shutoff inside your house?

 
parasaurolophus said:
Is there no water shutoff inside your house?
Click to expand...
Yes...right outside the house.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOE-SkN4ULiCWKuB-L2o_YUATvtFcfB5rH8-G3YzumrsTwOC0fNBOiufjeVpE3xZA?key=dnVhbnl3ak5xNndhOE5BNDFWTFhZNlNxNzM0Nl93

not a lot of room to play with there, but I guess it's possible to insert there.  I thought these systems had to be inside though.  Can they be out in the elements?  Was looking at them yesterday and they didn't seem like they were made for the elements?  :oldunsure:  

 
The Commish said:
Yes...right outside the house.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOE-SkN4ULiCWKuB-L2o_YUATvtFcfB5rH8-G3YzumrsTwOC0fNBOiufjeVpE3xZA?key=dnVhbnl3ak5xNndhOE5BNDFWTFhZNlNxNzM0Nl93

not a lot of room to play with there, but I guess it's possible to insert there.  I thought these systems had to be inside though.  Can they be out in the elements?  Was looking at them yesterday and they didn't seem like they were made for the elements?  :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
Not for outside install. Looks like you will need a plumber. Thats a weird setup. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Not for outside install. Looks like you will need a plumber. Thats a weird setup. 
Click to expand...
That's what I said!

####

I guess it's possible to cut in right there, run a line into the garage (down about 10 feet from there) then run it back out and into the house...seems ### backwards, but that's what I am dealing with.

 
Was your daughters room part of the original house plans?

Almost feels like it was added later

 
The Commish said:
That's what I said!

####

I guess it's possible to cut in right there, run a line into the garage (down about 10 feet from there) then run it back out and into the house...seems ### backwards, but that's what I am dealing with.
Click to expand...
Sorry if you have mentioned this before, I am guessing based on that stuccoesque exterior and exposed shutoff valve you are in a warmer climate with no basements, right? 

Can you even put a water softener where the pipe splits in the wall? 

 
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