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2020 Presidential Election Thread (1 Viewer)

John Blutarsky said:
Stay on topic and don’t make it about the poster. That’s what you always say yet it doesn’t apply to you.
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I specifically responded to your post above where you were discussing a poster. And then again as you refuse to see the points made.  It applies to all...try it.

 
squistion said:
$80,000? Okie Dokie, if you say so.

I am sure almost all of the attorneys here would jump at the chance to quit the legal profession and enter into the more lucrative field of teaching if given the opportunity. Surprised that they have not already done so, given how well your brother improved his annual salary by this career change.
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Wow. Just wow. smh.

 
Ezra Klein‏ @ezraklein 7h7 hours ago

Number of times the candidate used the word “fight” in their announcement speech: Buttigieg: 0 Bernie: 2 Beto: 2 Booker: 9 Gillibrand: 21 Harris: 23 Warren: 25

Number of times the candidate used the word “hope” in their announcement speech: Bernie: 0 Harris: 0 Warren: 0 Booker: 0 Beto: 1 Gillibrand: 3 Buttigieg: 9

The “fighter” lane is really crowded in the Democratic primary right now. The “hope” lane is wide open. That’s part of why Buttigieg has caught fire so fast.

Democratic elites have become disillusioned with "hope" messaging. Part of that is Obama hangover, and part of it is trying to learn Trump's lessons. But hope is really important in the liberal psychology, as the last two Democratic presidents will tell you.

Also, there's a *huge* gender dynamic to who has to prove themselves a fighter — you saw this with Hillary Clinton, too — that I discuss in the piece.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/16/18310769/pete-buttigieg-barack-obama-2020-presidential-announcement-hope-primary-democrats

 
squistion said:
Ezra Klein‏ @ezraklein 7h7 hours ago

Number of times the candidate used the word “fight” in their announcement speech: Buttigieg: 0 Bernie: 2 Beto: 2 Booker: 9 Gillibrand: 21 Harris: 23 Warren: 25

Number of times the candidate used the word “hope” in their announcement speech: Bernie: 0 Harris: 0 Warren: 0 Booker: 0 Beto: 1 Gillibrand: 3 Buttigieg: 9

The “fighter” lane is really crowded in the Democratic primary right now. The “hope” lane is wide open. That’s part of why Buttigieg has caught fire so fast.

Democratic elites have become disillusioned with "hope" messaging. Part of that is Obama hangover, and part of it is trying to learn Trump's lessons. But hope is really important in the liberal psychology, as the last two Democratic presidents will tell you.

Also, there's a *huge* gender dynamic to who has to prove themselves a fighter — you saw this with Hillary Clinton, too — that I discuss in the piece.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/16/18310769/pete-buttigieg-barack-obama-2020-presidential-announcement-hope-primary-democrats
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I'm not an elite and the hope ship sailed when it turned out to be hot air in place of fighting for policy. Thanks but no thanks. No more hopey changey BS.

 
NCCommish said:
I'm not an elite and the hope ship sailed when it turned out to be hot air in place of fighting for policy. Thanks but no thanks. No more hopey changey BS.
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Thank you Sarah Palin and that comment doesn't surprise me from someone who refuses to call themselves a progressive.

 
squistion said:
Thank you Sarah Palin and that comment doesn't surprise me from someone who refuses to call themselves a progressive.
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Well I dont let Frank Luntz tell me what I am.

And what did all those pretty hope and change speeches get us? Nothing much. Well that's not true. We got a Republican healthcare plan. We got a ramped up drone war. We expanded killing people to 8 countries. We got a president so hard for a deal he tried to give away Social Security,  Medicare and Medicaid. Thank God for idiot Tea Partiers who wouldn't take yes for an answer. Not to mention making tax cuts permanent furthering the theft from the middle and working classes. We lost 800 legislative seats. We lost the House. We lost the Senate. We ended up with a party hollowed out that was only good at one thing electing one guy. 

I find none of that hopeful or the change I want. And I dont want to hear it from someone up to their ears in the people who helped make all of that possible. 

 
NCCommish said:
Well I dont let Frank Luntz tell me what I am.

And what did all those pretty hope and change speeches get us? Nothing much. Well that's not true. We got a Republican healthcare plan. We got a ramped up drone war. We expanded killing people to 8 countries. We got a president so hard for a deal he tried to give away Social Security,  Medicare and Medicaid. Thank God for idiot Tea Partiers who wouldn't take yes for an answer. Not to mention making tax cuts permanent furthering the theft from the middle and working classes. We lost 800 legislative seats. We lost the House. We lost the Senate. We ended up with a party hollowed out that was only good at one thing electing one guy. 

I find none of that hopeful or the change I want. And I dont want to hear it from someone up to their ears in the people who helped make all of that possible. 
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I get some frustration with Obama.

How would he, Bernie, or any Democrat worked better with the Congress he had?

 
The General said:
I get some frustration with Obama.

How would he, Bernie, or any Democrat worked better with the Congress he had?
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Republicans are not working in good faith, stop trying to work with them. There is nothing he could do that would win them over, so why weaken good ideas trying.

 
He could have at least submitted good policies and worked back instead of defaulting to a compromise position and working back from there anyway. There is really nothing he could have done, but he could have got people talking at least.

I did not read the text, but essentially the comic in the middle of the linked page below (for some reason I could not find it as a stand alone anywhere):

https://www.quora.com/What-strategies-has-President-Obama-used-to-work-with-a-Republican-controlled-Congress

 
huthut said:
He could have at least submitted good policies and worked back instead of defaulting to a compromise position and working back from there anyway. There is really nothing he could have done, but he could have got people talking at least.

I did not read the text, but essentially the comic in the middle of the linked page below (for some reason I could not find it as a stand alone anywhere):

https://www.quora.com/What-strategies-has-President-Obama-used-to-work-with-a-Republican-controlled-Congress
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I do remember thinking Obama was wimping out a bit. He got health care through. It’s a base to work with.

Biggest concern with Bernie last time continues to be the problem this time - there’s no way any of these plans will get through. 

I do love listening to him though.

 
The General said:
I get some frustration with Obama.

How would he, Bernie, or any Democrat worked better with the Congress he had?
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Bernie would fight everyday and use the bully pulpit to it's full effect. I'm realistic I understand that the Republicans weren't and aren't going to give easily. But sometimes losing comes before winning. You fight for the right thing. You get the people on board. And you focus on those hampering progress every time someone puts a microphone in your face. 

 
NCCommish said:
Bernie would fight everyday and use the bully pulpit to it's full effect. I'm realistic I understand that the Republicans weren't and aren't going to give easily. But sometimes losing comes before winning. You fight for the right thing. You get the people on board. And you focus on those hampering progress every time someone puts a microphone in your face. 
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I get all this in theory. Not sure how well it works in practice but I guess you don’t know until you try it out. 

 
squistion said:
Those of us on the left all do.
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Well there are maybe 3 possible FDRs in this mix:

1) Bernie

2) Warren

3) Tulsi

Now I didn't include Yang because he has zero track record as a legislator. 

So if we all want the same thing the choices  are very clear. I'm assuming the left will now coalesce around one of these 3 and stop playing footsie with 3rd way centrists.

 
So if you are a Democratic candidate, how would you answer this question from an independent: 

“Last time around I voted for Trump. Things have gotten better for me. The tax cut saved me a little money and with the economic boom my 401k is doing very well. Why shouldn’t I vote for Trump again?” 

“

 
timschochet said:
So if you are a Democratic candidate, how would you answer this question from an independent: 

“Last time around I voted for Trump. Things have gotten better for me. The tax cut saved me a little money and with the economic boom my 401k is doing very well. Why shouldn’t I vote for Trump again?” 

“
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I would start with the economic turnaround started 8 years ago with Obama and Trump hasn't moved it much off the trend line.  So the progress is sustainable without:

-abandoning any effort to protect the climate

-alienating our allies

-America aiding in the rise of dictators

-family separation

-a record growing pace of national debt

-a record worst trade deficit

 
The Dude said:
I would start with the economic turnaround started 8 years ago with Obama and Trump hasn't moved it much off the trend line.  So the progress is sustainable without:

-abandoning any effort to protect the climate

-alienating our allies

-America aiding in the rise of dictators

-family separation

-a record growing pace of national debt

-a record worst trade deficit
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I think these are good points to make- except for the part about it started under Obama. I know that’s true to an extent, but I don’t know how the public will respond to that. 

 
timschochet said:
So if you are a Democratic candidate, how would you answer this question from an independent: 

“Last time around I voted for Trump. Things have gotten better for me. The tax cut saved me a little money and with the economic boom my 401k is doing very well. Why shouldn’t I vote for Trump again?” 

“
Click to expand...


I would carry the graphs from Paul Krugman that I posted in your economy thread yesterday.

I would also say that while your life may be a little better right now, at what cost? Many of your fellow citizens are far worse off. Do you want to support a President who says trans people aren't good enough to serve in the military? Who supports white nationalists? Who is trying to destroy the press? And thumb his nose at Congressional oversight? A man who is trying to tear down the very institutions of government just to serve his own purpose? 

Do you want to vote for a man who tears children away from their parents when they cross the border into the United States? Is that really who we want to be?

 
timschochet said:
I think these are good points to make- except for the part about it started under Obama. I know that’s true to an extent, but I don’t know how the public will respond to that. 
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Good point - but maybe if you are Biden, you leave Obama's name out and claim it for yourself

 
[scooter] said:
If you're a Democrat, you should be concerned about the numbers in Florida, Ohio and North Carolina.

If Trump loses Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa and Pennsylvania, he can still win if he retains Ohio, Florida and Arizona -- and flips NC.
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I don’t think that’s right. Did you mean VA instead of NC?  Look at the snake near the bottom of This.

 
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Juxtatarot said:
[scooter] said:
If you're a Democrat, you should be concerned about the numbers in Florida, Ohio and North Carolina.

If Trump loses Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa and Pennsylvania, he can still win if he retains Ohio, Florida and Arizona -- and flips NC.
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I don’t think that’s right. Did you mean VA instead of NC?  Look at the snake near the bottom of This.
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Oops, you're correct.

So, Trump can lose Wisconsin/Michigan/Iowa or Pennsylvania/Wisconsin/Iowa or Pennsylvania/Michigan.

 
timschochet said:
So if you are a Democratic candidate, how would you answer this question from an independent: 

“Last time around I voted for Trump. Things have gotten better for me. The tax cut saved me a little money and with the economic boom my 401k is doing very well. Why shouldn’t I vote for Trump again?” 

“
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You serious, Clark?

- Soaring deficit

- Trade war with China hurting farmers and making household goods more expensive for everyday Americans

- Tax cuts for billionaires but most Americans got smaller tax refunds or even owed money to the IRS for 2018

- His climate denial stance, resulting inaction will cost taxpayers and companies more money than acting now

  That's just off the top of my head. You can get into how he's made the world less safe - North Korea - or just their communities less safe by resisting sensible gun reform efforts. He's done almost nothing to address opiod crisis beyond grandstanding.  He's done nothing for teachers. He's botched immigration policy and reform efforts there. He's supported white nationalists, alienated our allies, and gone to great lengths to demean the office of the President.

 
timschochet said:
I think we're looking at a blue wave this November. After that, the two key questions become, how will Trump work with a Democratic majority? And how will a Democratic majority work with Trump?

Then there are 4 more questions:  Will the Mueller investigation indict Trump, exonerate Trump, or something in between? Will there be, between now and 2020, some kind of international crisis and how will Trump respond to it? Will there be a Republican challenger to Trump in the primaries? Will a progressive or a centrist win the Democratic nomination?

Until we know the answer to these 6 questions, until we see everything play out, there's really no way to know whether or not public perception will be lasting.
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😂

You even brought up the question of will Mueller indict Trump?

ETA: this is supposed to go in the Russian conspiracy thread, I'll try to move it.

 
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Biden with commanding leads in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. 

Still early yet but if he wins all 3 this race will be over before it started. 

 
If you study the details behind the latest polling- the desire to defeat Trump over and above all other iasues, the strong support of black women for Biden- it’s going to be difficult to catch him. 

 
The military vets seeking the Democratic nomination used Memorial Day to call Trump a draft dodger.

"You have somebody who thinks it's all right to let somebody go in his place into a deadly war and is willing to pretend to be disabled in order to do it."

- Pete Buttigieg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2019/05/28/daily-202-veterans-running-for-the-democratic-nomination-call-trump-a-draft-dodger-as-he-travels-overseas/5cec1dc1a7a0a46b92a3fe4c/?utm_term=.4cffdbfe2c79&tid=sm_tw

 
anybody else a li'l dubious about da Bootyjudge's military service? heard he was a veteran when i first developed my mancrush on him and assumed it was a 9-11 reaction common to his gen. later i saw he was "called up" from Navy Reserve (which he joined in '09) in '14 while he was Mayor, did a few months "intelligence" deployment. does that sound to anyone else like a guy who cherrypicks deployment cuz he wants it on his CV?

tell you why i say - me 94yo Da is a crusty bugger, a little to the right of Attila the Hun. Harry Truman drafted him for Korea but i know from his ol' stories that he found a loophole to keep from getting his ### shot off - he was recruited for Officer's Candidate School and found that, if he kept changing his specialty just as the training was ending, he could stay in OCS indefinitely. he eventually found a Signal Corps CO to suck up to and spent the rest of his hitch on regular leave from Fort Monmouth, living in the NYC YMCA going to Broadway shows. but now you'd think he took Pork Chop Hill by himself by the way he portrays his "service" and wraps himself in available honorifics. jussayin', know'm'sayin?

hey, anyone who serves has my respect (altho, being Nam gen, i am tolerant of anyone who dodged that clusterhug). but is Mayor Pete gilding the lily, doing his hitch strictly for resumé purposes? anybody got the veritas onnat?

 
squistion said:
The military vets seeking the Democratic nomination used Memorial Day to call Trump a draft dodger.

"You have somebody who thinks it's all right to let somebody go in his place into a deadly war and is willing to pretend to be disabled in order to do it."

- Pete Buttigieg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2019/05/28/daily-202-veterans-running-for-the-democratic-nomination-call-trump-a-draft-dodger-as-he-travels-overseas/5cec1dc1a7a0a46b92a3fe4c/?utm_term=.4cffdbfe2c79&tid=sm_tw
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That angle has been used up. No one pays attention to it anymore.

 
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