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Outgoing republicans brazenly stealing power from incoming Democrats. Enemies of Democracy. (1 Viewer)

sho nuff said:
And many including those even seem as liberal here now (me, for example) called them out and were supportive of walkers overall stance (but not all of his tactics either.  cr8f was one of the few against walker and not even sure how much he supported that. 

But how can one be so against that yet basically defend what’s going in now is odd.

The law they are passing is to go against the will of the people now in taking away power.  It’s bogus and it’s not a bad thing to call it out as such. 
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Nothing bogus about it.  They were elected for a term and they are serving it.  In the US Senate there have been important things done during lame duck sessions including passing trade agreements (NAFTA), financial crisis actions such as TARP, censure of Joesph McCarthy, and extending expiring tax breaks.  I did not see a bunch of people arguing that those were bogus and a bad thing against the will of the people?

 
jon_mx said:
Leaving the state was an underhanded political tactic to stall legislation indefinitely, it was only stopped because it looked so bad.  I for the life of me fail to understand what is undemocratic about an elected legislature exercising their power to pass a law. 
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This is not true. They returned because the bill got changed so it didnt need 20 senators present and republicans passed it without them. It would have been pretty dumb to stay away. 

They actually gained a ton of support. iirc polls at the time had walker getting walloped vs mayor barrett who they eventually ran against him in the recall. 

 
jon_mx said:
Nothing bogus about it.  They were elected for a term and they are serving it.  In the US Senate there have been important things done during lame duck sessions including passing trade agreements (NAFTA), financial crisis actions such as TARP, censure of Joesph McCarthy, and extending expiring tax breaks.  I did not see a bunch of people arguing that those were bogus and a bad thing against the will of the people?
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Passing agreements and passing things to limit the incoming guy because he is in the other party are two different things Jon.

Really odd thing to defend here and try to justify.

 
sho nuff said:
Passing agreements and passing things to limit the incoming guy because he is in the other party are two different things Jon.

Really odd thing to defend here and try to justify.
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Especially since those things jon listed would have been known issues and had been on the table for a long time, as opposed to surprises cooked up at the last minute.

 
jon_mx said:
Nothing bogus about it.  They were elected for a term and they are serving it.  In the US Senate there have been important things done during lame duck sessions including passing trade agreements (NAFTA), financial crisis actions such as TARP, censure of Joesph McCarthy, and extending expiring tax breaks.  I did not see a bunch of people arguing that those were bogus and a bad thing against the will of the people?
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Were they done by lame duck sessions in opposition to the clear will of the incoming chief executive?  Did they limit the power of an incoming chief executive?

 
jon_mx said:
.  I did not see a bunch of people arguing that those were bogus and a bad thing against the will of the people?
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In terms of the bolded, the argument being made by Democrats is that the laws currently being passed are designed specifically to prevent issues that were central to the election. I don't know how true this is, but that's at least the point being expressed.

 
it is somewhat fascinating to me that Wisconsin, like Florida in certain other areas, seems to be a continual battleground for this sort of thing. Why Wisconsin?

 
timschochet said:
it is somewhat fascinating to me that Wisconsin, like Florida in certain other areas, seems to be a continual battleground for this sort of thing. Why Wisconsin?
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Our kids start drinking at a younger age.  Hell, we celebrated my 10 yr son completing his first 6 pack of Pabst in one night.

 
timschochet said:
it is somewhat fascinating to me that Wisconsin, like Florida in certain other areas, seems to be a continual battleground for this sort of thing. Why Wisconsin?
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Wisconsin is an extremely divided state. You have liberal strangleholds and republican strangleholds. The assembly and senate are remaining republican. The governor won by only 1.2%. 

Even Milwaukee which votes overwhelmingly democratic is often considered the most segregated city in the country. 

I blame winter. 

 
jon_mx said:
Leaving the state was an underhanded political tactic to stall legislation indefinitely, it was only stopped because it looked so bad.  I for the life of me fail to understand what is undemocratic about an elected legislature exercising their power to pass a law. 
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You don't believe any of this....there's no way :lmao:

 
jon_mx said:
Nothing bogus about it.  They were elected for a term and they are serving it.  In the US Senate there have been important things done during lame duck sessions including passing trade agreements (NAFTA), financial crisis actions such as TARP, censure of Joesph McCarthy, and extending expiring tax breaks.  I did not see a bunch of people arguing that those were bogus and a bad thing against the will of the people?
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This isn't the standard either.....and you know it :lmao:  

People don't care about the "when".  They care about the "what".

 
timschochet said:
it is somewhat fascinating to me that Wisconsin, like Florida in certain other areas, seems to be a continual battleground for this sort of thing. Why Wisconsin?
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I think WI is probably more equally divided between R/D that causes this.  You have the older generation Union employees that traditionally vote D but buy into the hype that the Rs will bring in jobs and stop the eroding unskilled trades.  You have many first generation college graduates that may lean D.  You have farmers that tend to lean R but then you have large metropolitan areas that lean D.  We have many closet racist and at the same time we have many liberal colleges.  Pretty much all elections the last 8 years have been close to 50/50 with the independents that tip which way the state will go.  The thing I notice (and maybe it's just an assumption) in my area and circle it seems the Rs are more willing to show their allegiance to their side (yard signs, Facebook post, etc) and the Ds keep their thoughts to themselves.

 
I guess what I don’t understand about this and the NC situation is that either the legislature has power to do something or it doesn’t and the same goes for the governor. This thing with delegation of powers seems like a mirage. The disturbing thing I recall about the last round of WI intrigue was how partisan the court was on bofe sidez. That’s the sad part because when the courts strike down or uphold whatever happens next people won’t have faith in it.

 
I will say that in Louisiana we’ve never gotten off our asses to protest anything, except after Katrina when we saw our lives property and future flash before us, and that only lasted a couple years. Kudos to you all, seriously, at least you don’t have a colonial mentality.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Big difference between justifying what happened in WI and being a republican voter in WI. If you cant see that you fall under the bold category.
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Interesting, you did not address what I even wrote. I did write, "Anyone justifying what happened in Wisconsin today is simply bat#### crazy...," and in doing so did not specify "Republicans". I did specify, "Anyone," so if anyone does attempt to justify what has happened in Wisconsin, they are, indeed, bat#### crazy.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I guess what I don’t understand about this and the NC situation is that either the legislature has power to do something or it doesn’t and the same goes for the governor. This thing with delegation of powers seems like a mirage. The disturbing thing I recall about the last round of WI intrigue was how partisan the court was on bofe sidez. That’s the sad part because when the courts strike down or uphold whatever happens next people won’t have faith in it.
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The issue is manufactured outrage topped with a scoop of hysteria.    

 
jon_mx said:
The issue is manufactured outrage topped with a scoop of hysteria.    
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I’m just talking about what can and can’t be done constitutionally under the state constitution, and then about faith in the system. But Dems are genuinely pissed off. It would have shown integrity in conservatism if the legislature had limited their own governor’s powers, but no.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I’m just talking about what can and can’t be done constitutionally under the state constitution, and then about faith in the system. But Dems are genuinely pissed off. It would have shown integrity in conservatism if the legislature had limited their own governor’s powers, but no.
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They conceded power because they agreed with the governor on the issue and that expedited the process.   Now they don't so they took it back.  Not seeing the issue.  If it was really the will of the people, then why don't the Dems hold both the branches of government.   The outrage is illogical as there would be no outrage if the shoe we're on the other foot.   There is zero intellectual integrity in their arguements.  Let's say if a democrat controlled Senate conceded power to Obama to negotiate a global warming treaty, would they not take that power back if Trump won.  Of course they would, as the Senate would no longer want to consent.  It is manufactured outrage by the media, they know they did not win control of both branches of government, but yet they want all the cake.  

Of course this makes me a troll for pointing out how intentionally shallow and illogical their reasoning is.  They hyperventilate over a manufactured issue then I am the whinner.  Really.  Whatever folks.  Tim was the only intellectually honest poster in the bunch.  

 
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jon_mx said:
They conceded power because they agreed with the governor on the issue and that expedited the process.   Now they don't so they took it back.  Not seeing the issue.  If it was really the will of the people, then why don't the Dems hold both the branches of government.   The outrage is illogical as there would be no outrage if the shoe we're on the other foot.   There is zero intellectual integrity in their arguements.  Let's say if a democrat controlled Senate conceded power to Obama to negotiate a global warming treaty, would they not take that power back if Trump won.  Of course they would, as the Senate would no longer want to consent.  It is manufactured outrage by the media, they know they did not win control of both branches of government, but yet they want all the cake.  

Of course this makes me a troll for pointing out how intentionally shallow and illogical their reasoning is.  They hyperventilate over a manufactured issue then I am the whinner.  Really.  Whatever folks.  Tim was the only intellectually honest poster in the bunch.  
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You might be right, but show me an instance of where this is happening, rather than a hypothetical “well the other side would do it too if they could.” The Republicans are shamelessly ignoring the will of the people- not just in this power grab, but also by trying to pass marijuana legislation to stifle the legalization, reduce the effects of antigerrymandering laws, early voting, absentee voting, etc. I’m outraged by what is actually happening, not interested in debating what might happen if the shoe were on the other foot. 

 
Snorkelson said:
You might be right, but show me an instance of where this is happening, rather than a hypothetical “well the other side would do it too if they could.” The Republicans are shamelessly ignoring the will of the people- not just in this power grab, but also by trying to pass marijuana legislation to stifle the legalization, reduce the effects of antigerrymandering laws, early voting, absentee voting, etc. I’m outraged by what is actually happening, not interested in debating what might happen if the shoe were on the other foot. 
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The point is not that everybody does it or would do it, the point is there is nothing in principle wrong with it.  Just because they consented to Walker because they agree with him, does not mean that have to continue that when someone takes over they disagree with.  It is ignorant to assume it would.  They have every right to reclaim the power they are legally empowered with.

 
jon_mx said:
The point is not that everybody does it or would do it, the point is there is nothing in principle wrong with it.  Just because they consented to Walker because they agree with him, does not mean that have to continue that when someone takes over they disagree with.  It is ignorant to assume it would.  They have every right to reclaim the power they are legally empowered with.
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How about when a law is voted on by the people and they try to pass parallel legislation to limit the outcome because they don’t agree with it- for instance MI republicans trying to pass legislation to make it illegal to grow pot even though the vote was to make 2.5 ounces legal to possess and can grow (can’t remember the number) of plants. This also applies to early voting changes being rammed through and Redistricting guidelines. 

 
jon_mx said:
If anybody is whinning in here it is those who support the ridiculous hyperboles of the OP.  All my points were legitimate points.  If making legitimate points against the echo chamber is considered trolling, that is a reflection of the thin-skinned intolerant left-wing kooks who dominate this forum.  
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Your face is hyperbole 

 
jon_mx said:
Really?  It is in the title of this thread.  It is in the Kaepernick thread.  It is in the Trump thread.  It is everytime a cop shoots someone.  It is voter ID.  It is in every discussion of healthcare or education.  It is in the Supreme Court nomination process.  Snoopy is now racists and supports genocide.  "Honey, it's cold outside" is about rape.  The obsession with bashing the white male Republicans is epidemic.  
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WTF are you talking about?  Evil white men is in the title?  Honey it's cold outside is about white men?

Seriously, and I mean no offense, but the depths people like you will reach to find some way to play the victim is laughable.  You do realize that the vast majority of us are white dudes right?  WTF would we constantly bash and demonize our own kind?  What interests would that serve?

This kind of thinking really makes me wonder what, again no offense, what the real motivation is for people who think like you since reality is nothing like you present it.  None of you would change yourself into anything else if you could.  None of you can list any examples of white dudes being demonized other than ridiculous, abstract, tangential at best, laughable at most realistic examples.  White men run this country the same way we always have.

Get a grip dude. 

 
James Daulton said:
This kind of thinking really makes me wonder what, again no offense, what the real motivation is for people who think like you since reality is nothing like you present it.  None of you would change yourself into anything else if you could.  None of you can list any examples of white dudes being demonized other than ridiculous, abstract, tangential at best, laughable at most realistic examples.  White men run this country the same way we always have.

Get a grip dude. 
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It’s just the right wing media machine.  I’m a liberal and read plenty of mainstream and left-leaning media.  The only time I hear about stuff like  Snoopy or Baby it’s Cold Outside are when the right wing posters here bring it up.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
It’s just the right wing media machine.  I’m a liberal and read plenty of mainstream and left-leaning media.  The only time I hear about stuff like  Snoopy or Baby it’s Cold Outside are when the right wing posters here bring it up.
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But even when they're brought up it's not from an evil white man perspective.  It's from a "that song is kind of creepy" perspective.

The lengths that those who think like Jon will go to paint themselves as victims when in fact they run the whole show is simply laughable. 

 
jon_mx said:
Really?  It is in the title of this thread.  It is in the Kaepernick thread.  It is in the Trump thread.  It is everytime a cop shoots someone.  It is voter ID.  It is in every discussion of healthcare or education.  It is in the Supreme Court nomination process.  Snoopy is now racists and supports genocide.  "Honey, it's cold outside" is about rape.  The obsession with bashing the white male Republicans is epidemic.  
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Very little of what you claim is bashing the white man.  This is a bogus narrative you are pushing to get more reactions here.

 
jon_mx said:
You have posters calling me a troll, accusing me of derailing the thread, whinning....I am calling them out.  Until someone on the left calls out these tactics, I am going to assume you are all ok with the crap which goes on in this forum on every thread.  If it is considered whinning to point out the truth of the place, screw it.  The mindless echo chamber goes on.    This is not one time, it is every thread.   And this was one of the better ones until the last page.  Go ahead and defend it.  All cowards.
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:deadhorse:

 
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Reactions: SWC
jon_mx said:
What exactly would I get banned for,  pointing out how obsessed the left is with pushing the idea of white previledge?  It is the core of what the Democratic party stands for.   The evil rich white male Republicans vs. all the poor wholesome blameless oppressed minorities who are all victims and need the power of government to correct.  That is what most political issues boil down to is these days. 
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Every time I read posts like this I can't help but wonder if the light bulb finally went on in the mind and they are seeing reality for the first time but really don't want to admit it to anyone including themselves..  These sorts of posts feel like the transition from denial to anger in the grief process.  

At this point, in the world we live in, it is virtually impossible to ignore the reality that none of us start at the same place in life and that while we are all running the same course, the race is very different for each person.  We don't start in the same places.  We don't face the same obstacles and we don't all have the same resources available to us to aid us in the race.  It's crystal clear and undeniable.  It really is baffling that people struggle with this.

 
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jon_mx said:
Really?  It is in the title of this thread.  It is in the Kaepernick thread.  It is in the Trump thread.  It is everytime a cop shoots someone.  It is voter ID.  It is in every discussion of healthcare or education.  It is in the Supreme Court nomination process.  Snoopy is now racists and supports genocide.  "Honey, it's cold outside" is about rape.  The obsession with bashing the white male Republicans is epidemic.  
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I assumed you were gonna get banned for that comment about the "thin-skinned intolerant left-wing kooks who dominate this forum," but letting you score own goals like this is way better. Mods please loosen up on the bannings so we can get more of this instead.

 
Baby It's Cold Outside. Not Honey.

And that song is about a dude being really creepy and trying to force his way in some lady's pants when she clearly is not interested. It has nothing to do with whiteness or republicans. Werid that your take from the criticism goes immediately to seeing it as a bash on white republican men. Hmm

 
the moops said:
Baby It's Cold Outside. Not Honey.

And that song is about a dude being really creepy and trying to force his way in some lady's pants when she clearly is not interested. It has nothing to do with whiteness or republicans. Werid that your take from the criticism goes immediately to seeing it as a bash on white republican men. Hmm
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This was my favorite part of the self-own. "Oh, now we're not allowed to romanticize giving a roofie to a hesitant young woman any more?  Why do they always come for the white Republican men!"

 
Snoopy and Baby It's Cold Outside. I guess white republicans like jon just really do wish it was great again here like it was in the late 1940's and early 1950's.

 
the moops said:
Baby It's Cold Outside. Not Honey.

And that song is about a dude being really creepy and trying to force his way in some lady's pants when she clearly is not interested. It has nothing to do with whiteness or republicans. Werid that your take from the criticism goes immediately to seeing it as a bash on white republican men. Hmm
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Actually, it was quite the opposite.  She was very interested, but she wanted to blame the drink for her actions since the society was oppressive to the sexuality of women.  She is actually unaware if the drink has alcohol, but wants to blame it regardless. 

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
It’s just the right wing media machine.  I’m a liberal and read plenty of mainstream and left-leaning media.  The only time I hear about stuff like  Snoopy or Baby it’s Cold Outside are when the right wing posters here bring it up.
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You mean right wing media machines such as NPR.  Several radio stations in New York and San Fran banned it.  We also had a long discussion in this forum on the Snoopy thing.  I do not read any right wing media sources.  HTH. 

 
jon_mx said:
You mean right wing media machines such as NPR.  Several radio stations in New York and San Fran banned it.  We also had a long discussion in this forum on the Snoopy thing.  I do not read any right wing media sources.  HTH. 
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I know we had a discussion in this forum on the Snoopy thing.  It was started by some right wing dude named "ihop" who is almost certainly the alias of some regular poster here that got banned.  And then you took it and ran with it, I think you were likely the most frequent poster in that thread.

I guess I missed all the "Baby its Cold Outside" controversy because I don't read every single article in the mainstream press and it was a nothing story there.  I see now a few outlets have covered it but it was by no means anything that warranted significant media attention.

By contrast, I just google searched "Baby its cold outside fox news" and got probably over a dozen hits, including this left-wing video guy I've never heard of who shows screenshots of FOX News hosts talking about this the entire day.  A day when I'm pretty sure there might have been some slightly more newsworthy stuff happening.

I don't know whether you personally consume right wing media, I'll take your word for it that you don't.  But these sort of "outrage" stories are 100% a product of that right wing media.  Just because you may be getting that message secondhand doesn't diminish their role in creating the narrative.

Believe me, when I'm talking politics with my liberal friends, this is not the stuff we talk about.  It's only a story because the right thinks it makes the left look bad.  

 
WTF  :lmao:  

I hadn't heard about any of this.  I guess that's what I get for going to Reuters and BBC America.  Maybe you shouldn't be relying on our pathetically bad "news outlets" as a gauge for, well, anything.  I did a similar search to FG and you'd be shocked to see where this is being primarily covered in our "news" stations.  All because of that damn liberal juggernaut in Cleveland!!!!!!

 
jon_mx said:
the moops said:
Baby It's Cold Outside. Not Honey.

 And that song is about a dude being really creepy and trying to force his way in some lady's pants when she clearly is not interested. It has nothing to do with whiteness or republicans. Werid that your take from the criticism goes immediately to seeing it as a bash on white republican men. Hmm
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Actually, it was quite the opposite.  She was very interested, but she wanted to blame the drink for her actions since the society was oppressive to the sexuality of women.  She is actually unaware if the drink has alcohol, but wants to blame it regardless. 
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I agree with jon here. The song is definitely not about roofies, and the lady is indeed interested.

(I agree with the moops, though, that the song has nothing to do with whiteness or Republicans.)

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
I agree with jon here. The song is definitely not about roofies, and the lady is indeed interested.

(I agree with the moops, though, that the song has nothing to do with whiteness or Republicans.)
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White Male = Republican....pretty much interchangeable in the bashing.  It is all part of the common theme, Republican/White/Male/Conservative/Rich are all evil against the good Minority/Women/Democrat/Liberal.   

 
jon_mx said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
I agree with jon here. The song is definitely not about roofies, and the lady is indeed interested.

(I agree with the moops, though, that the song has nothing to do with whiteness or Republicans.)
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White Male = Republican....pretty much interchangeable in the bashing.  It is all part of the common theme, Republican/White/Male/Conservative/Rich are all evil against the good Minority/Women/Democrat/Liberal.   
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its funny watching a guy whose opinions have become the minority complaining about minorities just something karmic about that take that to the bank brohans 

 
jon_mx said:
White Male = Republican....pretty much interchangeable in the bashing.  It is all part of the common theme, Republican/White/Male/Conservative/Rich are all evil against the good Minority/Women/Democrat/Liberal.   
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What? Seriously... talk about manufactured outrage.

 
jon_mx said:
White Male = Republican....pretty much interchangeable in the bashing.  It is all part of the common theme, Republican/White/Male/Conservative/Rich are all evil against the good Minority/Women/Democrat/Liberal.   
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FFS :lmao:

Well....We've officially found the widest, most broadest of the broadest brushes ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew you could do it GB :thumbup:  

 
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