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Dr. Dan

Josh Jacobs - Raiders RB

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1 hour ago, tangfoot said:

The problem with this statement is that as long as he's on the roster, the chances that San Diego spends a premium pick on someone with "better talent" is very low.

Not necessarily true but even if it is lets say SD picked up Josh Adams as an UDFA......would Melvin Gordon be on the field as much? My answer is no. It would take a while but Josh Adams would push his way into the starting lineup.

I just like drafting talent over situation and I almost always trade situations for talent so I never have Melvin Gordon types on my team for very long. 

 

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1 minute ago, Milkman said:

Not necessarily true but even if it is lets say SD picked up Josh Adams as an UDFA......would Melvin Gordon be on the field as much? My answer is no. It would take a while but Josh Adams would push his way into the starting lineup.

I just like drafting talent over situation and I almost always trade situations for talent so I never have Melvin Gordon types on my team for very long. 

 

this makes me rethink giving away josh Adams as a throw in. 

If Josh Adams is so much better than Melvin Gordon, why is he on the roster bubble?

If LAC called Philly and said, we would like to offer you Melvin Gordon for josh Adams, you dont think Philly would say "Deal" before they even got Adams' last name out? 

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6 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Not necessarily true but even if it is lets say SD picked up Josh Adams as an UDFA......would Melvin Gordon be on the field as much? My answer is no. It would take a while but Josh Adams would push his way into the starting lineup.

I just like drafting talent over situation and I almost always trade situations for talent so I never have Melvin Gordon types on my team for very long. 

 

 

Thanks for the laugh, as unintentional as it was on your part.  You truly are the guft that never stops giving.

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6 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Thanks for the laugh, as unintentional as it was on your part.  You truly are the guft that never stops giving.

Yeah like when I told me I was wrong about Blake Bortles being bad?

Edited by Milkman

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

this makes me rethink giving away josh Adams as a throw in. 

If Josh Adams is so much better than Melvin Gordon, why is he on the roster bubble?

If LAC called Philly and said, we would like to offer you Melvin Gordon for josh Adams, you dont think Philly would say "Deal" before they even got Adams' last name out? 

Teams are dumb Dan. Josh Adams is an UDFA so he has to hit coaches over the head with his superior play. He played very well when given the ball. 

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3 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Teams are dumb Dan. Josh Adams is an UDFA so he has to hit coaches over the head with his superior play. He played very well when given the ball. 

So what you're saying is that if UDFAs just simply played better they'd take over starting jobs?

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8 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

:lol:

 

Thanks again

Well you certainly are better at forum one liners than me. I'm trying to think back if you have ever helped in FF and as smart as you are I can't come up with anything. Why I don't have you on ignore is puzzling......peace. 

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13 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

So what you're saying is that if UDFAs just simply played better they'd take over starting jobs?

It's an up hill battle because coaches are trying to save face with their terrible drafting. If they spend extra assets on a RB and an UDFA comes in and outplays him they still might not get much run. It has happened though. 

Any player though.....not just UDFA can push another player with suspect talent off the field. That's why I stay away from them. 

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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

It's an up hill battle because coaches are trying to save face with their terrible drafting. If they spend extra assets on a RB and an UDFA comes in and outplays him they still might not get much run. It has happened though. 

Any player though.....not just UDFA can push another player with suspect talent off the field. That's why I stay away from them. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/mPx1xGUbYBGEdva59

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Gil brandt

 

When I ask my scouts on the ground at pro days about player workouts, they classify them this way: great, very good, good plus, good, average, ok.

My scout at Alabama's pro day yesterday added another category for RB Josh Jacobs: EXCEPTIONAL. Jacobs cemented his 1st-round status

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34 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Gil brandt

 

When I ask my scouts on the ground at pro days about player workouts, they classify them this way: great, very good, good plus, good, average, ok.

My scout at Alabama's pro day yesterday added another category for RB Josh Jacobs: EXCEPTIONAL. Jacobs cemented his 1st-round status

My opinion on Jacobs will be wholly dependent on landing spot and draft capital invested, but based on what has been reported about his pro day, I don't see how anyone could call it exceptional.

Edited by skinfanjon
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1 hour ago, skinfanjon said:

My opinion on Jacobs will be wholly dependent on landing spot and draft capital invested, but based on what has been reported about his pro day, I don't see how anyone could call it exceptional.

Was thinking the same thing. If Jacobs goes in the first to a decent team, I will consider him with 1.01. He must have looked great in drills. Wasn’t his 40 time for sure...

Edited by Gandalf

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When I watch his highlights I see a guy with average athletic ability. Nothing special when it comes to lateral quickness, explosiveness and long speed. Seems to need to reset his feet at times to make sharp cuts in the hole. Plus hands though. I’d be disappointed if the Eagles burn a 1 on him

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4 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

When I watch his highlights I see a guy with average athletic ability. Nothing special when it comes to lateral quickness, explosiveness and long speed. Seems to need to reset his feet at times to make sharp cuts in the hole. Plus hands though. I’d be disappointed if the Eagles burn a 1 on him

That would be gross

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Remember hearing this stuff this time of the year about 7 years ago about another ‘Bama RB?  Runs angry.  Soft hands.  Powerful.  Never has to come off the field.  Has all the tools.

Quote

BR "So while Richardson may not be as dangerous a quick-strike weapon as Peterson is, he's actually the safer pick coming out of college".

SB Nation Mike Mayock: Trent Richardson Is The Best Running Back Prospect Since Adrian Peterson

NFL.com combine profile "Richardson is as compact and coiled an athlete that the running back position has seen since Adrian Peterson"

CBS sports "Here's the argument for Trent Richardson: He's better than Adrian Peterson."

Edited by Bronco Billy

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21 hours ago, Bojang0301 said:

When Jeremiah posts stupid #### like comparing him to Michel it’s an insult to the communities collective intelligence. This guy did absolutely nothing in college. I’m doubling down. This dude should be nothing but a 5th to 7th round flier. If he succeeds it will not be because of his subpar skill set but because he’ll have landed in a plum spot.  

Completely disagree with this thought he wasn't good and did nothing in college and think it is lacking important context. You can't just look at the box score and assume he wasn't good. 

Jacobs came in as one of the lower-rated RB recruits Alabama has brought in but still carved out a big role as a true freshman in 2016 despite a loaded depth chart. 5-star sophomore Damien Harris and productive 4th-year, 22 year-old Bo Scarbrough, were the top two but Jacobs finished not too far behind them with 723 total yards. He was stuck behind the same two older guys in 2017 but still finished 3rd in yards and held off the #1 RB recruit in the nation (Najee Harris) on the depth chart.

Then in 2018, he had slightly fewer yards than Harris again but led the team in touchdowns and was the go-to guy in big games and in key situations. The fact of the matter is that Alabama had at least three RBs last year that will be drafted in the first 3 rounds and they blew out almost every opponent they played. Damien Harris is going to be a top 5 RB in this class and Najee Harris should be a top 5 RB next draft. The 4th guy, Brian Robinson could play in the NFL as well. So, of course, they weren't going to give any of their top 3 a heavy workload and none of the three had any chance of putting up huge numbers given the situation and shared touches.

This reminds me a bit of when a lot of people knocked Michael Thomas as a prospect because he didn't have a huge "market share" at Ohio State. But he was sharing the field with a half dozen other NFL-caliber skill position players (Ezekiel Elliott, Curtis Samuel, Braxton Miller, Jalin Marshall, Nick Vannett, Jeff Heuerman, etc.) and OSU made it a point to spread it around to try to keep everybody happy. 

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40 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

Remember hearing this stuff this time of the year about 7 years ago about another ‘Bama RB?  Runs angry.  Soft hands.  Powerful.  Never has to come off the field.  Has all the tools.

He was a great college back at least.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

He was a great college back at least.

 

Yeah, but he also wasn’t the most productive RB on that team, and you have to wonder how much of that success lies on his overtly dominant O line, supporting cast, and play calling as opposed to his own ability.  People seem to have learned to factor that in with WIS RBs.  I’m wondering if the same shouldn’t happen with ‘Bama RBs.

.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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Found an article that had Alabama test before the 2018 season for returning players in Spring workouts.

Had Josh Jacobs at 4.5 flat and a 35.5 vert.

Just to compare times between this test and the combine it had Calvin Ridley at 4.43 (same as his combine time) and Harris 4.51 which is roughly the same as his 4.57 combine run.  

Lots of people coming out saying he doesn’t have 4.6 speed on tape so maybe the groin injury did have something to do with it. 

Heres the article if you want to read it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/alabamafootball/2017/03/jalen_hurts_40_time_among_nota.html%3foutputType=amp

 

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34 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Yeah, but he also wasn’t the most productive RB on that team, and you have to wonder how much of that success lies on his overtly dominant O line, supporting cast, and play calling as opposed to his own ability.  People seem to have learned to factor that in with WIS RBs.  I’m wondering if the same shouldn’t happen with ‘Bama RBs.

.

Yeah he surely ran through some giant holes.

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21 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

this makes me rethink giving away josh Adams as a throw in. 

If Josh Adams is so much better than Melvin Gordon, why is he on the roster bubble?

If LAC called Philly and said, we would like to offer you Melvin Gordon for josh Adams, you dont think Philly would say "Deal" before they even got Adams' last name out? 

I recently read the coaches talking about how they plan to put the ball in Gordon’s hands more next year.

Tex

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21 hours ago, Milkman said:

It's an up hill battle because coaches are trying to save face with their terrible drafting. If they spend extra assets on a RB and an UDFA comes in and outplays him they still might not get much run. It has happened though. 

Any player though.....not just UDFA can push another player with suspect talent off the field. That's why I stay away from them. 

Just last year. Philip Lindsey >> Royce Freeman. 

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6 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I recently read the coaches talking about how they plan to put the ball in Gordon’s hands more next year.

Tex

Doesn't this happen every year? Coaches always want to run more.

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1 hour ago, Dan Hindery said:

Completely disagree with this thought he wasn't good and did nothing in college and think it is lacking important context. You can't just look at the box score and assume he wasn't good. 

Jacobs came in as one of the lower-rated RB recruits Alabama has brought in but still carved out a big role as a true freshman in 2016 despite a loaded depth chart. 5-star sophomore Damien Harris and productive 4th-year, 22 year-old Bo Scarbrough, were the top two but Jacobs finished not too far behind them with 723 total yards. He was stuck behind the same two older guys in 2017 but still finished 3rd in yards and held off the #1 RB recruit in the nation (Najee Harris) on the depth chart.

Then in 2018, he had slightly fewer yards than Harris again but led the team in touchdowns and was the go-to guy in big games and in key situations. The fact of the matter is that Alabama had at least three RBs last year that will be drafted in the first 3 rounds and they blew out almost every opponent they played. Damien Harris is going to be a top 5 RB in this class and Najee Harris should be a top 5 RB next draft. The 4th guy, Brian Robinson could play in the NFL as well. So, of course, they weren't going to give any of their top 3 a heavy workload and none of the three had any chance of putting up huge numbers given the situation and shared touches.

This reminds me a bit of when a lot of people knocked Michael Thomas as a prospect because he didn't have a huge "market share" at Ohio State. But he was sharing the field with a half dozen other NFL-caliber skill position players (Ezekiel Elliott, Curtis Samuel, Braxton Miller, Jalin Marshall, Nick Vannett, Jeff Heuerman, etc.) and OSU made it a point to spread it around to try to keep everybody happy. 

Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all this guy has. Not talent, not production... scouts creating a massive group think and everyone trotting along like mice following the pied piper.

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Also this 4.6 narrative and it being ok is garbage. 40 times for ALL prospects not in the combine need to be adjusted .02-.05 (I always go on the conservatives end of .05) which means he adjusts closer to 4.65-4.70. That is bad on the closer side to awful.

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26 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I recently read the coaches talking about how they plan to put the ball in Gordon’s hands more next year.

Tex

And Julio Jones will also be used more in the red zone.

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24 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Just last year. Philip Lindsey >> Royce Freeman. 

Thats not apples to apples though ..neither lindsay or freeman has proved anything on the nfl field....melvin gordon has....

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38 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Yeah he surely ran through some giant holes.

 

I absolutely factor into my RB assessments the support factor.  I’m very cautious about RBs who ran behind dominant O lines and WRs who blocked downfield, or RBs who played in air raid style offenses.  On the other hand, I upgrade guys who didn’t have a lot of support and still produced.  Those guys performed in more NFL style environments where the holes are much skinnier and close much quicker.  Those guys already understand what it takes to run in a pro environment and can often hit the ground running (pun intended) at the next level.

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1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Thats not apples to apples though ..neither lindsay or freeman has proved anything on the nfl field....melvin gordon has....

Huh? 😕

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1 hour ago, Dan Hindery said:

Completely disagree with this thought he wasn't good and did nothing in college and think it is lacking important context. You can't just look at the box score and assume he wasn't good. 

Jacobs came in as one of the lower-rated RB recruits Alabama has brought in but still carved out a big role as a true freshman in 2016 despite a loaded depth chart. 5-star sophomore Damien Harris and productive 4th-year, 22 year-old Bo Scarbrough, were the top two but Jacobs finished not too far behind them with 723 total yards. He was stuck behind the same two older guys in 2017 but still finished 3rd in yards and held off the #1 RB recruit in the nation (Najee Harris) on the depth chart.

Then in 2018, he had slightly fewer yards than Harris again but led the team in touchdowns and was the go-to guy in big games and in key situations. The fact of the matter is that Alabama had at least three RBs last year that will be drafted in the first 3 rounds and they blew out almost every opponent they played. Damien Harris is going to be a top 5 RB in this class and Najee Harris should be a top 5 RB next draft. The 4th guy, Brian Robinson could play in the NFL as well. So, of course, they weren't going to give any of their top 3 a heavy workload and none of the three had any chance of putting up huge numbers given the situation and shared touches.

This reminds me a bit of when a lot of people knocked Michael Thomas as a prospect because he didn't have a huge "market share" at Ohio State. But he was sharing the field with a half dozen other NFL-caliber skill position players (Ezekiel Elliott, Curtis Samuel, Braxton Miller, Jalin Marshall, Nick Vannett, Jeff Heuerman, etc.) and OSU made it a point to spread it around to try to keep everybody happy. 

The bold is very true. But I distinctly remember thinking for most games how Jacobs was the 3rd best back on the team. 

This isn't all that unlike Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams, those two were awesome for Auburn. Drafted high, had a little success in the league but nowhere near their draft slot should indicate 

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3 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Thats not apples to apples though ..neither lindsay or freeman has proved anything on the nfl field....melvin gordon has....

🤷‍♂️ I'm not calling for Gordon to be replaced, just saying UDFAs do start over relatively highly acclaimed prospects, after they prove that they should. 

Gordon isn't being replaced any time soon.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

So what I'm gathering is that we should put Bojang0301 down as a "No". Do I have that right?

I’ll continue to be as absurd as Gil Brandt and Daniel Jeremiah. 

Alabama goes down 28-16 against Clemson. Mr. Superstar RB has 3 touches the rest of the game. 

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1 hour ago, Dan Hindery said:

 

Then in 2018, he had slightly fewer yards than Harris again but led the team in touchdowns and was the go-to guy in big games and in key situations. The fact of the matter is that Alabama had at least three RBs last year that will be drafted in the first 3 rounds and they blew out almost every opponent they played. Damien Harris is going to be a top 5 RB in this class and Najee Harris should be a top 5 RB next draft. The 4th guy, Brian Robinson could play in the NFL as well. So, of course, they weren't going to give any of their top 3 a heavy workload and none of the three had any chance of putting up huge numbers given the situation and shared touches.

 

Yet there he was, in all those blowouts, getting little work in the second half of games.

This is a guy who averaged less than 10 touches a game - not 10 rushes, but 10 touches - on a team where 3rd string opportunities were plentiful in the 4th quarter and there was every chance to run the ball a ton.

Proponents are telling us that this guy, the best RB in the draft playing for arguably the best team in the country for arguably the best coach in college football - the coach who saw him everyday at workouts and practices - couldn’t find a way to get at least 10 touches a game in those situations on that team with that coach?

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Just now, Bojang0301 said:

I’ll continue to be as absurd as Gil Brandt and Daniel Jeremiah. 

Alabama goes down 28-16 against Clemson. Mr. Superstar RB has 3 touches the rest of the game. 

Yeah, it's weird that a team would go away from the running game when they're down by two scores. :mellow:

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7 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Key situations... like being embarrassingly tied against Citadel and getting 3 touches? Seriously none of this #### holds water.

That was an ugly game.  But not one to make an argument against key situations.

Try Georgia or Oklahoma. Those games made me start thinking I might have the committee ranked wrong.

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1 minute ago, Bojang0301 said:

I’ll continue to be as absurd as Gil Brandt and Daniel Jeremiah. 

Alabama goes down 28-16 against Clemson. Mr. Superstar RB has 3 touches the rest of the game. 

The whole team was bad against Clemson.  Not to make excuses, but seriously that was just bad. 

The two KEY games previous he looked pretty darn good. 

I've said it before and I'll stand by it. I don't think he should be a first round pick. But you're way underselling him to the point it seems like trolling.

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1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah, it's weird that a team would go away from the running game when they're down by two scores. :mellow:

 

 

If he’s the supposedly best RB on the team per draft experts and can create huge plays in both the run game and passing game, yet he’s not getting the ball in that situation?  Yeah, that is weird.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah, it's weird that a team would go away from the running game when they're down by two scores. :mellow:

 

Oh but isn’t Mr. Hero a complete three down work horse? Shouldn’t he have caught some balls with those pillow soft hands and run all over the Clemson defense?

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1 minute ago, -OZ- said:

The whole team was bad against Clemson.  Not to make excuses, but seriously that was just bad. 

The two KEY games previous he looked pretty darn good. 

I've said it before and I'll stand by it. I don't think he should be a first round pick. But you're way underselling him to the point it seems like trolling.

It is trolling to a degree. He ran some dudes over, scouts got hard... stuff like that bothers me. It probably shouldn’t. If anything it will open up value for me if someone grabs him top five to eight. I am not joking though when I say I see him as a 4th to 7th round talent who is not better than Kalen Ballage. 

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I also don’t question his work ethic or being the guy 110% at practice... that’s a so what quality though. I’ve tried to ride that horse on Ohio State players like John Simon. Ya he’s had a long NFL career, he’s also been cut three or four times and has never been a star or had a signature moment. Just because the class is thin doesn’t mean someone NEEDS to be propelled to the top. It’s a bad class. None of these backs should go before maybe round three, late round two if you’re really in love but it’s almost psychotic to think this guy is a 2nd rounder. Chubb, Kerryon and Guice were 2nd rounders and I doubt any of their teams would swap Jacobs for them (maybe Ronald Jones just on sheer crap shoot).

Edited by Bojang0301

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I guess I’m being awfully negative, but given all this crazy pre-draft hype for a guy who is not showing us anything in pre-draft workouts and didn’t get the near the workload his talent would have demanded in college for that program just doesn’t add up.  I’m just really suspicious that something is way off here and that’s enough for me to put up a red flag.  This wouldn’t be the first time that the “experts” swooned over a guy who looked sexy in very limited college action and in tees and shorts and then couldn’t play a lick in the NFL.

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8 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

I guess I’m being awfully negative, but given all this crazy pre-draft hype for a guy who is not showing us anything in pre-draft workouts and didn’t get the near the workload his talent would have demanded in college for that program just doesn’t add up.  I’m just really suspicious that something is way off here and that’s enough for me to put up a red flag.  This wouldn’t be the first time that the “experts” swooned over a guy who looked sexy in very limited college action and in tees and shorts and then couldn’t play a lick in the NFL.

I feel more this way about Daniel Jones. But see your point 

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19 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

None of these backs should go before maybe round three, late round two if you’re really in love but it’s almost psychotic to think this guy is a 2nd rounder. Chubb, Kerryon and Guice were 2nd rounders and I doubt any of their teams would swap Jacobs for them (maybe Ronald Jones just on sheer crap shoot).

Well sure Chubb and Kerryon have proven it on an NFL level at this point.  The question is where would Jacobs slot in alongside them when they were still just draft prospects.  Daniel Jeremiah says he would have been ahead of them, but he's just one guy.

Regardless, this is all just talking in circles at this point.  Bad production, bad measurables, has some good looking highlights, scouts seem to love him for some reason.  It's just the same points back and forth.  The NFL draft will likely fill in the gaps a lot as if all this scout stuff is just smoke then there's not much left.  If he actually does get picked in the 1st round then I'll probably be willing to take a chance on him.

Sure there aren't many comps for guys with such limited production going this high but we all know the NFL is a copy cat league so with guys like Kamara and Tyreek tearing it up in the NFL it seems like teams may be willing to take chances on guys with limited college production like Jacobs and Metcalf more than they would have in the past.

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