Ilov80s
Footballguy
I can see that. Test wise Gore killed the agility drills where JJ flamed out in every drill. I can see Gore or Mark Ingram has being kind of a best case scenario for Jacobs.
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RB Josh Jacobs, GB (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
TripItUp
Footballguy
Mark Ingram makes the most sense to me as his ceiling.
as for Gore, there was a buzz coming out of Miami that he was a hall of famer and best football player they had ever seen despite his lack of measurables so the narrative was quite different imho.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Gore’s testing was also done after he had 2 college ACL tears in a time when everyone didn’t always fully recover from it
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TripItUp
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Different narrative and college production. Waldman is the oracle of film grinding. Jacobs running style is similar to Gore on tape. Also Jacobs is going to catch a lot of passes. Does Ingram do that?
TripItUp
Footballguy
I disagree with Waldman on the gore comp and I don’t disagree with Matt often. Gore runs with lower shoulder pad level and more power. If Jacobs was anything close to Gore he would have gone a lot higher in the draft.
jacobs will get more receptions, this we can agree on.
Gandalf
Footballguy
No doubt Gore is the upside comparison. I do see it when I watch his game too. This is a problem with film grinding. It’s subjective. Jacobs has the opportunity to get 20 carries a game and be the bell cow of that offense. I’m in.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Very few running backs would go a lot higher than late first. As great as Gore has been, longevity has been his greatest asset. Which you just can't predict, especially not for Jacobs. I sure wouldn't predict a similar career, but perhaps in any given week he's similar.TripItUp said:
TripItUp
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
What was his peak? One season where he averaged more than 100 yards per game?
With receiving he did it like 3 times while missing games. You could be right that I'm forgetting his greatness, but even after looking at his stats I don't remember him being a top 5 back (draft pick) in any year. And he never was an all pro.
I remember him being a solid rb2 type.
His best claim to fame is 12 years over 1,000 yards from scrimmage.
Really good for a long time, he's a HOFer.
TripItUp
Footballguy
He was the best pure runner in the game for 3 years IMO. He's a lot more than what his already impressive stats showed during those peak years.
Jacobs is not in his class and never will be as a runner.
TheWinz
Footballguy
For a 12 yr stretch, he finished as a RB1 five times, and a RB2 seven times. Just think about that for a minute - from the age of 23 to the age of 34, he never finished lower than a RB2. He finished as a RB1 at the age of 33, 12 yrs into his career. His ironman label actually does a disservice to his talent level.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'm not trying to insult the guy, he's kinda the ideal teammate on the field (I honestly have no idea what he's like in the locker room or practice, etc, I assume he's good there too).
Ironman is never a disservice IMO (triathlete and Marvel fan). The part you asked me to think about is exactly the point. But how many times was he the #1 back?
But I stand by what I said, he was never the elite at the position. Not when he played with Tomlinson, AD, and others who flashed but didn't last.
I'll take Gore's career well over many others already in the hall.
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TheWinz
Footballguy
I understand. I just thought it was kinda comical to be comparing Jacobs, who has yet to log a single NFL carry, to the NFL's 4th all time leading rusher. I guess if we are comparing them as of today, sure, but remember, Frank is now 142 yrs old.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Gore will forever be underrated. I bet if you polled NFL coaches in regards to Frank Gore they would describe him as one of the best. Running, catching, blocking...one of the more complete backs of his time.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I love Gore but I think his point his fair. "Peak" Gore is kind of a funny statement because his career is basically devoid of peaks and valleys. His 2nd best season was almost the same as his age 33 season. His career was basically a big flat line (of goodness).
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player-news
The Athletic's Vic Tafur reports there is a "growing sentiment" that Josh Jacobs will not be at camp when rookies report on July 23.
Camp doesn't officially start until veterans report July 26, but Jacobs is reportedly eyeing a holdout beyond then due to a hangup regarding the payment schedule of his signing bonus. According to Tafur, negotiations between the team and the No. 24 overall pick "have not been going well" as Jacobs remains Oakland's only unsigned selection. Worst-case scenario would be a situation similar to Joey Bosa's back in '16 when the two sides didn't reach an agreement until 31 days into camp.
SOURCE: Vic Tafur on Twitter
Jul 6, 2019, 10:07 AM ET
The Athletic's Vic Tafur reports there is a "growing sentiment" that Josh Jacobs will not be at camp when rookies report on July 23.
Camp doesn't officially start until veterans report July 26, but Jacobs is reportedly eyeing a holdout beyond then due to a hangup regarding the payment schedule of his signing bonus. According to Tafur, negotiations between the team and the No. 24 overall pick "have not been going well" as Jacobs remains Oakland's only unsigned selection. Worst-case scenario would be a situation similar to Joey Bosa's back in '16 when the two sides didn't reach an agreement until 31 days into camp.
SOURCE: Vic Tafur on Twitter
Jul 6, 2019, 10:07 AM ET
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
On one hand, I think those thinking Jacobs is going to be Saquon lite are being way over-optimistic -- the guy has yet to play and NFL down, and it's not like we saw a whole lot of evidence in college that he is anywhere near elite or elite-light.
On the other hand, though he didn't get a full load in college, he showed his versatility even with limited carries. I can't see at all the argument that he's not good at football. He can get low and run hard with force and violence, and has solid balance to run through tackles. He shows patience and some degree of vision and speed bouncing outside and is a sound one-cut back. He has soft hands and great tracking ability as a receiver.
Yes, he's nowhere near elite -- he lacks the homerun gear and both the burst/explosion and open field wiggle/cuts that separate the elite from the very good.
But he's exactly what the Raiders need -- an all purpose, every down back who can be used as a credible run/pass threat in any down/distance. That alone is going to give him value on this team.
If I'm Gruden, I'm eager to develop Jacobs as a key centerpiece to the run game, pairing him with a guy like Chris Warren for the short, grinding, hammer runs. Jacobs doesn't need to be elite in this role to shine -- he just needs to do the job he's capable of, based off his work in college, limited though it was.
Charlie Garner/Nap Kaufman and Tyrone Wheatley didn't need to be All-pro, leading backs. They needed to work perfectly in tandem, which they did in Gruden's Thunder/Lighting run game. If I'm Gruden, would be salivating at the prospects of developing both Jacobs and Warren towards this end.
Either way, Jacobs will likely get a lot of volume, and used in all aspects of the offense. I am not breaking the bank for him - I think some people are over-reaching for him based on some of the mock ADPs I see at this point. But can easily see the opportunity he has both from an NFL and fantasy perspective to be valuable this year.
On the other hand, though he didn't get a full load in college, he showed his versatility even with limited carries. I can't see at all the argument that he's not good at football. He can get low and run hard with force and violence, and has solid balance to run through tackles. He shows patience and some degree of vision and speed bouncing outside and is a sound one-cut back. He has soft hands and great tracking ability as a receiver.
Yes, he's nowhere near elite -- he lacks the homerun gear and both the burst/explosion and open field wiggle/cuts that separate the elite from the very good.
But he's exactly what the Raiders need -- an all purpose, every down back who can be used as a credible run/pass threat in any down/distance. That alone is going to give him value on this team.
If I'm Gruden, I'm eager to develop Jacobs as a key centerpiece to the run game, pairing him with a guy like Chris Warren for the short, grinding, hammer runs. Jacobs doesn't need to be elite in this role to shine -- he just needs to do the job he's capable of, based off his work in college, limited though it was.
Charlie Garner/Nap Kaufman and Tyrone Wheatley didn't need to be All-pro, leading backs. They needed to work perfectly in tandem, which they did in Gruden's Thunder/Lighting run game. If I'm Gruden, would be salivating at the prospects of developing both Jacobs and Warren towards this end.
Either way, Jacobs will likely get a lot of volume, and used in all aspects of the offense. I am not breaking the bank for him - I think some people are over-reaching for him based on some of the mock ADPs I see at this point. But can easily see the opportunity he has both from an NFL and fantasy perspective to be valuable this year.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Not great news. Gruden holds grudges forever. If he holds out over money, there's every chance that Gruden could bench him in weird situations just to prove a point.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
What evidence is there that Gruden holds grudges? I see this come up occasionally, and just wonder what the basis for it is.
As a Steeler fan (just guessing by your name/avatar) are you referring to Jerry Porter mouthing off about Gruden being tough on rookies and putting pressure on them (as well as everyone on the team) to produce. I remember Porter complaining about his playing time even though he wasn't producing when he was in the game, Gruden thinking Porter had a lack of work ethic because of his constant sitting out of practices with nagging injuries, and Porter demanding to be traded.
This wasn't so much as a grudge as Gruden responding to a guy who thought he was above the team and mouthing off without backing it up with his play, and responding when that player continued to run his mouth about what he deserved.
I guess you could call Gruden a guy who favors team players instead of showboat look-at-me guys -- likely the reason for shedding Marquette King. I could see any GM being annoyed that a rookie would hold out over the timing of a few hundred thou when he has yet to prove himself to the team and the NFL. And any coach will bench players when they are underperforming.
But holding a grudge forever? Benching players to make a point? I guess I never saw it.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Apparently the Money issue stems from the fact that all the players drafted before pick 24 (Jacobs' pick) have guarantees for all 4 years of the rookie contract, and all the players drafted 24 and later don't have them for all 4 years. So, Jacobs wants those guarantees, but the Raiders are cash poor and cheap, so they don't seem to want to make guarantees. Both sides need the holdout to end in order to have a good year, hopefully it ends sooner than later.
Nothing to worry about. He will be in camp.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/raiders-sign-first-round-draft-pick-josh-jacobs-rookie-contract
I like potential to be top 10 RB this year. The opportunity is their and like the talent
glad Oakland management came to senses here
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/raiders-sign-first-round-draft-pick-josh-jacobs-rookie-contract
I like potential to be top 10 RB this year. The opportunity is their and like the talent
glad Oakland management came to senses here
SDJohnny
Footballguy
That is a tired outdated narrative that was fully disproved this off season.steelers1080 said:
https://247sports.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/Article/Oakland-Raiders-guaranteed-money-spending-extravaganza-131076352/
Trent Brown; The Raiders brought the former Patriots lineman to town on a four-year, $66 million contract that includes $36.25 million guaranteed.
Additionally, the Raiders signed Antonio Brown to a restructured three-year, $50.125 million contract with $30.125 million guaranteed at signing. Between the two big additions to the roster, the Silver and Black have dedicated 58 percent of the $114.5 million in guaranteed money.
Wide receiver Tyrell Williams is receiving $22 million in guaranteed money while safety Lamarcus Joyner gets $21.3 million.
The Raiders were not limited at all in free agency and in fact fully guaranteed Jacobs contract.
https://www.raiders.com/lasvegas/live-stadium-camera There's plenty of cash to go around.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Believe that the Raiders are working with about $20M of cap space right now, 13th most overall -- with the 12th least amount of dead money owed.
Reggie McKenzie could be faulted for a few things such as his draft pick success rate, but he did a phenomenal job turning around a truly dire cap situation in 2012 to one of the better structured teams in the league over the past few years.
LawFitz
Footballguy
^^^Yep, and Mayock has continued the Reggie model with the contracts he's doled out. With the exception of AB, all the new big contracts are essentially 1-2 yr deals with annual team-controlled options for years 2-4. The cap flexibility of these new deals is another facet that will make the Khalil trade hard to grade for years to come. I still hate it, but it certainly opened up the roster for a number of new (and potentially very significant) additions, some of whom we might not see for another 1-3 years, given the way the 2019 big $$$ Raider free agents could easily be replaced down the line.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Man, the Raiders really, really want to be right about this pick. Opportunity trumps talent in this case.
Milkman
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I thought the reason people were down on him is that his talent is an "incomplete", not that he necessarily lacked talent?Milkman said:
Milkman
Footballguy
Opportunity trumps talent at the RB position so this is a mute point but he is not what I look for in a RB. His versatility is nice though.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Not sure that it matters. He doesn't seem elite or great but is a solid RB that should get a fair amount of touches. Those touches are important in today's RBBC NFL. In PPR leagues, he should be a low end RB1
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Don Hutson
Footballguy
montana_grizzly_bears
Footballguy
4 rushes on the first and only drive tonight. The cutback on the second (?) rush showed some good vision.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
4-21. looked good. Gruden loves his RBs. he's going to be the main man. Raiders are going to be ( much) improved. Carr was slick out there.
I expect Washington is the handcuff in the sense of seeing the biggest workload increase if Jacobs goes down,
Richard would be the third-down guy regardless, and likely also see expanded carries in Jacobs’ absence.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I think Washington and Richard are very similar players I think it is pretty clear that Rishard is ahead of Washington in the pecking order. He also has some value even with Jacobs getting the majority of the touches.
I do agree there would be more of a split between the two then I expect there to be between Jacobs and Richard, but Richard is the guy to have for such contingencies imo.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Martin got released or is getting released, according to sources. I think Jacobs could face heavier workload regardless of injury.
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