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China - the Super Thread

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Just saw this:

 

They’re the pride of the US fleet: enormous 100,000 tonne, 333m long nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. But Beijing thinks they’re Washington’s achilles heel.

Rear Admiral Lou Yuan has told an audience in Shenzhen that the ongoing disputes over the ownership of the East and South China Seas could be resolved by sinking two US super carriers.

Taiwan’s Central News Agency (CNA) reports Admiral Lou gave a wide-ranging speech on the state of Sino-US relations. The high-profile, hawkish military commentator reportedly declared the current trade spat was “definitely not simply friction over economics and trade,” but was instead a “prime strategic issue”.

His speech, delivered on December 20 to the 2018 Military Industry List summit, declared that China’s new and highly capable anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles were more than capable of hitting US carriers, despite them being at the centre of a ‘bubble’ of defensive escorts.

“What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,” Admiral Lou declared.

He said the loss of one super carrier would cost the US the lives of 5000 service men and women. Sinking two would double that toll.

“We’ll see how frightened America is.”

 

 

The US-China relations are much more complicated than selling soybeans.

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7 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Just saw this:

 

They’re the pride of the US fleet: enormous 100,000 tonne, 333m long nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. But Beijing thinks they’re Washington’s achilles heel.

Rear Admiral Lou Yuan has told an audience in Shenzhen that the ongoing disputes over the ownership of the East and South China Seas could be resolved by sinking two US super carriers.

Taiwan’s Central News Agency (CNA) reports Admiral Lou gave a wide-ranging speech on the state of Sino-US relations. The high-profile, hawkish military commentator reportedly declared the current trade spat was “definitely not simply friction over economics and trade,” but was instead a “prime strategic issue”.

His speech, delivered on December 20 to the 2018 Military Industry List summit, declared that China’s new and highly capable anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles were more than capable of hitting US carriers, despite them being at the centre of a ‘bubble’ of defensive escorts.

“What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,” Admiral Lou declared.

He said the loss of one super carrier would cost the US the lives of 5000 service men and women. Sinking two would double that toll.

“We’ll see how frightened America is.”

 

 

The US-China relations are much more complicated than selling soybeans.

Well, someone clearly doesn't know us very well.

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4 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Well, someone clearly doesn't know us very well.

But maybe they know Trump.

 

I don't think Trump would be as boisterous in the face of a Chinese military threat as he was standing up to Kim.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

But maybe they know Trump.

 

I don't think Trump would be as boisterous in the face of a Chinese military threat as he was standing up to Kim.

Of course not.

But if the strength of the Chinese is that their administration doesn't have to worry about the next election in a couple of years, the strength of the U.S. is that if you think there's someone weak or ineffectual in office wait a few months and see what happens.

If the Chinese fire on a U.S. vessel in international waters, the next President-elect is going to be whomever the American people believe will set the South China Sea on fire.

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I have always thought that in todays day and age of weaponry that the carriers would eventually be an easy target. 

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9 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I have always thought that in todays day and age of weaponry that the carriers would eventually be an easy target. 

They are.  Basing naval strategy on those things is insanity.  One of the main reasons the F35 has been such a long project is the attempt to develop a usable STOVL jet. 

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14 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I have always thought that in todays day and age of weaponry that the carriers would eventually be an easy target. 

In theory - the armada that surrounds a carrier is designed to protect against most attacks.

 

But, you are right, that as weapons become more sophisticated, the defenses may struggle to keep up. 

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49 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Just saw this:

 

They’re the pride of the US fleet: enormous 100,000 tonne, 333m long nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. But Beijing thinks they’re Washington’s achilles heel.

Rear Admiral Lou Yuan has told an audience in Shenzhen that the ongoing disputes over the ownership of the East and South China Seas could be resolved by sinking two US super carriers.

Taiwan’s Central News Agency (CNA) reports Admiral Lou gave a wide-ranging speech on the state of Sino-US relations. The high-profile, hawkish military commentator reportedly declared the current trade spat was “definitely not simply friction over economics and trade,” but was instead a “prime strategic issue”.

His speech, delivered on December 20 to the 2018 Military Industry List summit, declared that China’s new and highly capable anti-ship ballistic and cruise missiles were more than capable of hitting US carriers, despite them being at the centre of a ‘bubble’ of defensive escorts.

“What the United States fears the most is taking casualties,” Admiral Lou declared.

He said the loss of one super carrier would cost the US the lives of 5000 service men and women. Sinking two would double that toll.

“We’ll see how frightened America is.”

 

 

The US-China relations are much more complicated than selling soybeans.

I just finished reading that and already want some more.

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7 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

In theory - the armada that surrounds a carrier is designed to protect against most attacks.

 

But, you are right, that as weapons become more sophisticated, the defenses may struggle to keep up. 

Portable Dien Bien Phus

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U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions


 

Quote

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department on Thursday renewed its warning for U.S. citizens traveling in China to exercise increased caution due to “arbitrary enforcement of local laws” amid heightened diplomatic tensions over the arrest in Canada of a Chinese technology company executive.

The updated travel advisory maintains the warning at “Level 2” but also warns about extra security checks and increased police presence in the Xinjiang Uighur and Tibet Autonomous Regions.

The advisory follows the detentions by Chinese authorities in December of Canadians Michael Kovrig, a former diplomat and an adviser with the International Crisis Group (ICG) think-tank, and businessman Michael Spavor. China says both men were suspected of endangering state security.

Tensions with China increased after Canadian police arrested Huawei Technologies Co Ltd’s chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, on Dec. 1 in Vancouver at the request of the United States.

U.S. prosecutors have accused her of misleading banks about transactions linked to Iran, putting the banks at risk of violating U.S. sanctions.

Earlier on Thursday, China’s top prosecutor said the two Canadians had “without a doubt” violated the law.

In its previous travel advisory for China issued on Jan. 22 last year, the State Department urged Americans to “exercise increased caution” in the country because of “the arbitrary enforcement of local laws and special restrictions on dual U.S.-Chinese nationals.”

The latest advisory repeats that warning but adds: “Extra security measures, such as security checks and increased levels of police presence, are common in the Xinjiang Uighur and Tibet Autonomous Regions. Authorities may impose curfews and travel restrictions on short notice.”

The advisory also warns about China’s use of “exit bans” that would prohibit U.S. citizens from leaving the country, sometimes keeping them in China for years.

 

...And, I'm leaving for China next Tuesday.  Wonderful.  "exit bans" sounds especially fun.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

The actual text of the warning is... ungood.  When are you supposed to come back?

leaving to come back on the 17th.

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Just now, msommer said:

Have some craft brews while you are there!

almost no chance of that.  Best I can realistically hope for is a Goose Island at the hotel.  other than that, Tsing Tao every day.

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14 minutes ago, moleculo said:

just registered with the State department.  Probably best to make sure someone knows I'm there.

Only tangentially related to China but I took a Mandarin class based on some of your posts a few years ago. I'm glad I did (and should probably take another) so thanks.

Good luck on your journey Mr. Ambassador.

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On 1/2/2019 at 1:09 PM, Henry Ford said:

If the Chinese fire on a U.S. vessel in international waters, the next President-elect is going to be whomever the American people believe will set the South China Sea on fire.

Yyyyyyep. 

 

Also, directed energy weapons will be the biggest threat to carriers, methinks. Nothing to shoot down. 

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8 minutes ago, Banger said:

shocking that the President would try and take credit for the dropping oil prices but this thread is really interesting as to the real drivers of oils future...

https://twitter.com/GregorMacdonald/status/1082018027967664128

@timschochet - read this on green energy transition

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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 9:41 AM, Banger said:

shocking that the President would try and take credit for the dropping oil prices but this thread is really interesting as to the real drivers of oils future...

https://twitter.com/GregorMacdonald/status/1082018027967664128

Nothing is shocking.

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They usually talk about nuclear threats,  but Arms Control Wonk by Jeff Lewis run a blog and podcast that will likely address this. Hes an expert in stuff.

Edited by Dedfin

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A couple of stories popping up about China this morning:

China sentences Canadian man to death for drug smuggling

A court in China has sentenced a Canadian to death for drug smuggling, a verdict likely to reignite a diplomatic row between the two countries.

Robert Lloyd Schellenberg had been given a 15-year jail term in 2016, but after an appeal in 2018 a court said the sentence was too lenient.

That ruling came shortly after Canada arrested Meng Wanzhou, a top official at Chinese telecoms giant Huawei, on a request from the US.

***

Schellenberg was arrested in 2014 and accused of trafficking 200g of methamphetamine.

In November 2016, he was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

But following an appeal, a high court in the north-eastern city of Dalian on Monday sentenced the Canadian national to death.

The court also ruled that all of his financial assets must be confiscated.

"I am not a drug smuggler. I came to China as a tourist," Schellenberg said just before the verdict was announced, the AFP news agency reports.

 

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US trade deficit with China grows to a record and it's likely even worse than the data shows

 

Despite U.S. President Donald Trump launching a high-stakes trade war against Beijing last year, China on Monday announced that its 2018 trade surplus with Washington was its largest in more than a decade.

China's surplus with the U.S. grew 17 percent from a year ago to hit $323.32 billion in 2018, according to government data. It was the highest on record dating back to 2006, according to Reuters. The deficit that the U.S. has with China is likely even bigger than these figures indicate since China calculates the numbers using different methods, sometimes excluding goods that end up in the U.S. via other countries.

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This is probably not good for the global economy:

 

Hong Kong (CNN Business)China's huge export industry just suffered its worst month in two years but still managed to rack up a record trade surplus with the United States in 2018 despite new tariffs.

The value of goods shipped from China to the rest of the world fell by more than 4% in December, compared to the same period a year ago, Chinese government data published Monday showed.

That represents the worst monthly performance for China's export sector in more than two years, and the first year-on-year decline since March 2018. Economists polled by Reuters had forecast that exports from China would rise slightly in December.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

This is probably not good for the global economy:

 

Hong Kong (CNN Business)China's huge export industry just suffered its worst month in two years but still managed to rack up a record trade surplus with the United States in 2018 despite new tariffs.

The value of goods shipped from China to the rest of the world fell by more than 4% in December, compared to the same period a year ago, Chinese government data published Monday showed.

That represents the worst monthly performance for China's export sector in more than two years, and the first year-on-year decline since March 2018. Economists polled by Reuters had forecast that exports from China would rise slightly in December.

Wait.. tell me if I misunderstand that, but it appears the US (Trump) is making huge noise about China trading with us, yet we still have a massive trade imbalance with them, while the rest of the world is quietly doing what Trump wanted to do this whole time? I might be misunderstanding that.

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9 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Robert Lloyd Schellenberg had been given a 15-year jail term in 2016, but after an appeal in 2018 a court said the sentence was too lenient.

Jesus.

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4 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

Wait.. tell me if I misunderstand that, but it appears the US (Trump) is making huge noise about China trading with us, yet we still have a massive trade imbalance with them, while the rest of the world is quietly doing what Trump wanted to do this whole time? I might be misunderstanding that.

A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

 

I read it as:  China's economy is slowing, and overall demand for their products has dropped.  At the same time, China is importing even fewer US goods - for example we saw Soybeans drop to 0 in November.  So, the reduction in US imports outpaced, the reduction in US exports - leading to a widening gap.

 

A Chinese slowdown is a global problem though - I think.

Edited by Sinn Fein
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4 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

Jesus.

Yeah - I think its a dangerous time to be a Canadian in China - and maybe soon to be dangerous to be an American.

I suspect China thinks its easier to pick on Canada for now.  Of course, its also possible that this guy was really a drug smuggler - and not very smart.

 

But, imagine getting this message from your attorneys:

"Good news, the Appeals Court has decided to take your case!  You will not have to serve the entire 15-year sentence."

"Bad news, the Appeals Court has sentenced you to death."

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10 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Robert Lloyd Schellenberg had been given a 15-year jail term in 2016, but after an appeal in 2018 a court said the sentence was too lenient.

Ah, nice appeal systems ya got there, Xi.

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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 9:37 AM, Sinn Fein said:

Yeah - I think its a dangerous time to be a Canadian in China - and maybe soon to be dangerous to be an American.

I suspect China thinks its easier to pick on Canada for now.  Of course, its also possible that this guy was really a drug smuggler - and not very smart.

 

But, imagine getting this message from your attorneys:

"Good news, the Appeals Court has decided to take your case!  You will not have to serve the entire 15-year sentence."

"Bad news, the Appeals Court has sentenced you to death."

Going to China in February after a weekend in Toronto. Hopefully they don`t check my itinerary.

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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/us-china-trade-war-apple-huawei?%3Fbftw&utm_term=4ldqpfp#4ldqpfp

Hong Kong — People in China are calling for a boycott of Apple products after tensions between China and the US reached new heights following fresh restrictions targeting Chinese telecoms giant Huawei.

Declaring a national emergency, President Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday that banned US telecom companies from installing foreign equipment which poses a national security threat. A separate order bans Huawei from buying US technology without government approval.

On Weibo, China’s version of Twitter, users reacted to US pressure on Huawei by rejecting Apple products. “The functions in Huawei are comparable to Apple iPhones or even better. We have such a good smartphone alternative, why are we still using Apple?” commented one user.

 

On Weibo, different photos with a banner strung across restaurants and warning Americans of increased prices due to the trade war tariffs were being shared across the social media site.

A few different versions of the banner popped up in social media posts. BuzzFeed News could not verify the veracity of the photos.

An English version of the sign read, “From now on, our store will charge 25% service fee (tariff) to American customers. If you don’t understand, please consult the American embassy!”

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Trump's not wrong on this issue of infrastructure.  Can't trust China at all in this regard IMO.  I think it's sound policy to prevent any chinese infrastructure being used in our most important of systems.  I don't know if he should be making that decision for private companies, but.....

P.S.  I feel like we had a thread here on Huawei didn't we?

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On 1/2/2019 at 1:51 PM, Sinn Fein said:

The US-China relations are much more complicated than selling soybeans.

100% this. 

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53 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Trump's not wrong on this issue of infrastructure.  Can't trust China at all in this regard IMO.  I think it's sound policy to prevent any chinese infrastructure being used in our most important of systems.  I don't know if he should be making that decision for private companies, but.....

P.S.  I feel like we had a thread here on Huawei didn't we?

That and they built their entire company off IP theft. 

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https://mashable.com/article/chinese-communist-party-app-store/?utm_campaign=mash-com-tw-main-link&utm_content=tech&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter

 

The Chinese Communist Party's indoctrination app is absolutely crushing it. 

Study the Great Nation, available in the App Store, allows users to spend hours a day learning about their Great Leader, taking quizzes to demonstrate their devotion to said leader, and parroting back their absolute favorite leader's quotes. And, according to mobile app analytics company SensorTower, it's the 9th most popular app worldwide in the App Store (not including Apple apps).   

That's right, an app that the New York Times has described as "a kind of high-tech equivalent of Mao’s Little Red Book" that is reportedly forced on employees and students by their bosses and teachers had more App Store downloads than Gmail in the first quarter of 2019.

 

The app was developed by the Publicity Department of the Communist Party of China. 

An App Store description of Study the Great Nation, translated via Google Translate, informs would-be users that "learning" will gain them points — as will logging in daily, browsing, answering questions, and sharing with others on the app.

 

And, if you don't learn and gain points, the Times notes that you could be in for some trouble — with some employers reportedly even threatening to deduct pay. 

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Nothing China says or does will ever surprise me.  After traveling there 5 times for work and meeting many different people it is easy to see the masses of China are basically minions who only focus on what is right in front of them like a horse with blinders on.  Not saying all but they are basically a brain washed society and have no concept of any type of life outside of China.

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Hong Kong was guaranteed the right to retain its own social, legal and political systems for 50 years under an agreement reached before its 1997 return to China from British rule. But China’s ruling Communist Party has been seen as increasingly reneging on that agreement by pushing through unpopular legal changes.

The extradition bill amendments would allow Hong Kong to send people to mainland China to face charges, spurring criticism that defendants in the Chinese judicial system won’t have the same rights as they would in Hong Kong. Opponents contend the proposed legislation could make Hong Kong residents vulnerable to vague national security charges and unfair trials.

 

AlArabiya

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On 6/10/2019 at 3:13 PM, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Opponents contend the proposed legislation could make Hong Kong residents vulnerable to vague national security charges and unfair trials

Could is the operative word here. They have no proof his would happen.

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