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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (8 Viewers)

Still dealing with the trade hangover, the Lakers, beyond just the chance that they'll be giving away lottery picks, have also made it really, really tough for themselves to find even rotation quality players through the draft for a while. That's a tough way to keep a roster viable. You have to absolutely nail your low money free agent acquisitions - last season wasn't exactly a confidence builder in that regard.
You're basically forced into doing what the Cavs did after blowing all of their assets in the first 6 months after LeBron came back. Trade for role players then overpay them to stay. When LeBron splits and AD looks around seeing the team can't get better then he demands out.

Flags fly forever, but if they don't win one in the next 2-3 years...I'm not gonna say the Brooklyn calls are right, but I get where they're coming from.

 
Reporter after reporter has said the same two things regarding Brooklyn in free agency:

1. Kyrie to the Nets is practically a foregone conclusion

2. If Kyrie signs, Russell is gone.

From a basketbal perspective this probably makes sense, Kyrie > DLo and they are not a good fit together. On the other hand, Russell dragged the Nets out from the depths of basketball hell and it would be kinda ####ty to kick him to the curb once a slightly better player comes along. He’s a fan favorite and is the poster child for Brooklyn’s rebuild. Really hope they can keep him somehow, but the odds aren’t looking great.

(All might be forgiven if Kyrie enables them to land KD or Kawhi, but that’s an awfully high bar to clear. Trading two first rounders for cap space and letting a homegrown 23-y.o. all-star walk all so you can end up with Kyrie and Tobias Harris would be a huge disappointment)
I don't care about the Nets, but if I were a fan I'd blindly be telling myself the Kyrie rumors aren't true and we are keeping Russell. I dont know if the latter will work, but I'm confident saying the former wont. I get that a guy from Cleveland saying anything bad about Kyrie only falls on deaf ears, but that thing falling apart like it did in Boston...that guy just ain't right. It's all self inflicted. And he doesn't get it.

 
The only hope to ascend now seems to be big leaps from Brown and Tatum :kicksrock:   I hope it happens
it is pretty surprising how the C's fans still love Ainge and the front office, when taking an objective look over the last few years it seems they had a few gift assets and wasted many of them away. Ainge's problem seems to be that he doesn't take any trade unless it is overwhelmingly in favor of him. He seems to scared to take a chance or possibly lose a trade. But for whatever reason, the PR up there is strong and every trade piece they didn't get they seem to get free passes on, and somehow all the blame of the team falls on Kyrie Irving. 

I get not paying as much as LAL did for AD, no doubt. But all that Ainge kept saying for the past 2 years when asked why he didn't make certain trades or go after guys was that he was waiting for AD. Granted LAL sacrificed the future of the team for him, but then Ainge shouldn't have put all of his faith in just getting AD. Time will tell, but i think the upside ceiling is gone from the Celtics. I think they battle for 5th to 7th seed for the next few years, and maybe it is possible we see Tatum or Brown demand a trade from there. 

I agree with you Conley would be a nice fit for them, but they will need to make the salaries work. Not sure what other option the Celtics can hope for. Beal will seek more than Ainge would want to pay and another team will give it to them. I think one of Ainge's biggest mistakes is not moving any of these draft picks for this year already. Maybe they can move a pick or 2 for something still.

In the end, they have 1 draft pick asset and a few guys that they could move in trades. But looking at all of the assets they have acquired since that Nets trade, and where they are at now, i would have to think most Celtics' fans would at least be questioning or wondering what the plan has been. It seems that some C's fans do which is nice, but many keep drinking the Kool Aid and are just saying that things are fine with Brown and Tatum going forward. 

 
What I don't fully understand is the whole trade completed by a certain date vs the other team wanting to wait to complete the trade later on thing. Why would the Pels do the Lakers any favors and wait to do this deal until the end of July?
The fact that this wasn't decided probably means that the Lakers had no idea that they could put things off to the end of July - at this point, the only reason for the Pels to do it would be to get more assets from LA (Kuzma or maybe more draft capital).

 
The NBA is cruel. I've barely come to terms with the Dubs missing a chance to cement themselves as an All-Time team with a 3peat and 4/5 and boom...the Lakers and all their "die-hard" fans are back to rub salt into my wounds. Gawd. Shoot me now.

My thoughts in the trade.....it's a good trade for both teams with significant chances it be great or disastrous for both sides. 

I don't care what anyone thinks...but LBJ+AD+Kuz+near max FA and mercenaries is a contending team. When a franchise signs LBJ you know you're in win now mode. The Lakers will have plenty of mercenaries to choose from and draft picks evey other year (to trade for vets) as long as LBJ is there. I also don't think (though I hope so) Pelinka is dumb enough to sign a bunch of non-shooters after getting destroyed in the media. Those worried about the fit of the two are thinking too hard. Yes, their shot locations overlap, but AD is used to functioning without the ball in his hands. If I remember correctly almost 60% of his baskets were assisted. Get 2 more shooters and they'll be a monstrous offense. If they win 1 title and contend for a couple years it's worth it. Now the downside is LBJ and AD get injured in the coming years, but if you have the chance to pair AD with LBJ you do it. 

For the Pels it's a trade you gotta take. I don't think Lonzo is a franchise piece but he can be a starter/rotation player a la Marcus Smart or Ricky Rubio. That jumper is broken and I don't know what @wikkidpissahis seeing but Lonzo has terrible handles and cannot take people off the dribble in the half court consistently. I'd rather have Fred VanVleet over Lonzo. Ingram has All-NBA upside, but has Chris Bosh health problem downside. Josh Hart is the one player I'm confident will be a starter for the Pels. The draft picks is where the trade return will be judged...but at this moment in time it's a worthy haul. Griffin did very well, but I wouldn't be surprised if people are busting his balls when it's all said and done claiming the Pels just got 3 bench players and late 20s picks for handing the Lakers a title with AD.

 
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May not be untrue for the Lakers as they just drafted Ingram and Ball with back to back #2 picks.
People slam the Lakers for grabbing those two guys both at #2---but if the Lakers didn't take either of those guys there--other teams would have taken both of those guys shortly after.  The jibberish about how the Lakers somehow managed to "screw" those picks up is largely unwarranted. Those players were both going to go early regardless of if the Lakers took them. 

 
You're basically forced into doing what the Cavs did after blowing all of their assets in the first 6 months after LeBron came back. Trade for role players then overpay them to stay. When LeBron splits and AD looks around seeing the team can't get better then he demands out.

Flags fly forever, but if they don't win one in the next 2-3 years...I'm not gonna say the Brooklyn calls are right, but I get where they're coming from.
When LeBron leaves, we throw him in the gutter, and go buy anotha. 

 
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People slam the Lakers for grabbing those two guys both at #2---but if the Lakers didn't take either of those guys there--other teams would have taken both of those guys shortly after.  The jibberish about how the Lakers somehow managed to "screw" those picks up is largely unwarranted. Those players were both going to go early regardless of if the Lakers took them.  
"Everyone else liked those guys too" is a terrible defense to draft day decisions. The whole point of a front office is that you research the players, figure out who is overrated, who is underrated, who fits your scheme, etc and then adjust your strategy accordingly. Otherwise why bother having workouts and scouts? Teams can just draft whoever ESPN or some other mock draft tells you is the best remaining player.

 
Lakers can always trade AD for a haul if things go south.  Nightmare scenario not as dire as everyone thinks.  Who wants to pay big money to ingram and ball either.  Not easy drafting uperstats.  Often u end up with a j. Randle and it is better to just let them walk.

 
So Horford opts out to an unrestricted FA. Could be some insight into what actually occurred in Boston last year if Al bolts. Boston really needs to open the wallet and give him whatever he wants, or we could be seeing a lot more Terry Rozier interviews on 1st take.

As a Sixers' fan, I would not mind seeing Al leave at all. Guy seems to have aged a lot from the wear and tear in Boston having to play against bigger guys, but he is one of a handful of guys who can really hold Embiid down. always impressive to see guys age well in the NBA and modify their game to still be top on their team.

ETA: thinking about this, if I were LAL I would be calling Horford today and breaking all sorts of rules to let him know the Lakers are someone they should consider. he would be a great addition to that team, and his leadership in the locker room could be a huge asset for their mix and match team they put together

 
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Reports are now coming out that Kyrie has "ghosted" the Celtics.

I'm ready for him to move on to wherever and allow the Celtics to rework the roster.  Resigning Horford is a priority and likely Rozier.

I'd love to see them pull of a trade for Beal, but I don't think that is realistic.

 
man, thinking about Horford on the Lakers would totally change my perception of that team. Obviously need big help in the backcourt still, but Horford offers all those intangibles and things teams really need. Seeing him with a young team coming up would be nice too. It seems Kyrie to Brooklyn is almost a guarantee, but Horford to Brooklyn would be a great fit too. Would be smart for Al to do a mini tour to a bunch of teams. Not sure if Orlando has enough talent, but that could be interesting. New Orleans would be fantastic

 
So Horford opts out to an unrestricted FA. Could be some insight into what actually occurred in Boston last year if Al bolts. Boston really needs to open the wallet and give him whatever he wants, or we could be seeing a lot more Terry Rozier interviews on 1st take.
Horford will get a 2/50 or 3/70 type deal from Boston.  Likely have something decided already. Frees up some cap space this year and locks him in for the near future.  Boston wants him back and I believe he wants to be back.

 
Some interesting financial analysis from Sporting Intelligence.  GLOBAL SPORTS SALARIES SURVEY 2018

The NBA is again, "comfortably, the top-paying sports league in the world." 

After the two Spanish giants of the soccer world at 1 and 2, the NBA has 29 of the top 50 paying sports teams in the world (page 28-29).  The NBA analysis starts at p. 40.

 
Reports are now coming out that Kyrie has "ghosted" the Celtics.

I'm ready for him to move on to wherever and allow the Celtics to rework the roster.  Resigning Horford is a priority and likely Rozier.

I'd love to see them pull of a trade for Beal, but I don't think that is realistic.
hard to see what Al's priorities are at this point (money, championship, longevity of his career, etc.), but I think he will be sought after on the free agent market, and there are quite a few teams that can probably offer more money and a better chance to get a ring than Boston. Will be interesting.

if Al leaves Boston, that situation could get pretty ugly. he seemed to be the only thing holding that team together last year (and surprisingly Tatum too. just saying it is surprising seeing a 20 year old guy handle the situations that he was presented with the way he did)

 
Horford will get a 2/50 or 3/70 type deal from Boston.  Likely have something decided already. Frees up some cap space this year and locks him in for the near future.  Boston wants him back and I believe he wants to be back.
I think that makes sense,  but can they afford that? I think they can, but having to sign Rozier, Morris and I think one or 2 other guys will likely take a hit.

man, the off-season in NBA really is more exciting than the regular season

 
Reports are now coming out that Kyrie has "ghosted" the Celtics.

I'm ready for him to move on to wherever and allow the Celtics to rework the roster.  Resigning Horford is a priority and likely Rozier.

I'd love to see them pull of a trade for Beal, but I don't think that is realistic.
Jaylen Brown and Ainge should be buried together.

 
I think that makes sense,  but can they afford that? I think they can, but having to sign Rozier, Morris and I think one or 2 other guys will likely take a hit.

man, the off-season in NBA really is more exciting than the regular season
They have Bird rights on those guys and probably wouldn’t have to go into the tax to re-sign them. 

 
I think I guessed months ago that Kyrie and Jimmy Butler (BFFs) would sign together in Brooklyn.  I'm going to double down on that.  

 
I think I guessed months ago that Kyrie and Jimmy Butler (BFFs) would sign together in Brooklyn.  I'm going to double down on that.  
:lmao:

Holy carp, please let this happen.  I would love to see that....in a borough no less.

 
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Wolves twitter saying both that the Wolves are trying to trade up to pick #4, and shopping Wiggins.  I'd take one or the other.
it's good to see them active. not sure the answer, but things seemed to be going well when Covington was healthy. Free Dario though

 
Gsw should trade green for some draft picks.  Try to reload for 2020.  
What players could they trade Green for that wouldn't upset Curry, Klay, and KD? Even a Green for Horford swap wouldn't be received well. The Dubs would have to get the better player and I don't think those guys are available.

Trading Green when Klay and KD is injured would be a great way to fracture a relationship with Curry.

 
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Lots of buzz around Garland, maybe this is not a three player draft after all :shrug:  
Garland was ranked substantially ahead of Ja Morant until he was hurt. Ja really came on this last season & tourney and passed even RJ, but Garland was rated w the other 3 til the draw, and that's because Garland dont fit on a team that has Lonzo Ball so folks started mocking others in the #4. Lillard is the comp.

 
it is pretty surprising how the C's fans still love Ainge and the front office, when taking an objective look over the last few years it seems they had a few gift assets and wasted many of them away. Ainge's problem seems to be that he doesn't take any trade unless it is overwhelmingly in favor of him. He seems to scared to take a chance or possibly lose a trade. But for whatever reason, the PR up there is strong and every trade piece they didn't get they seem to get free passes on, and somehow all the blame of the team falls on Kyrie Irving. 

I get not paying as much as LAL did for AD, no doubt. But all that Ainge kept saying for the past 2 years when asked why he didn't make certain trades or go after guys was that he was waiting for AD. Granted LAL sacrificed the future of the team for him, but then Ainge shouldn't have put all of his faith in just getting AD. Time will tell, but i think the upside ceiling is gone from the Celtics. I think they battle for 5th to 7th seed for the next few years, and maybe it is possible we see Tatum or Brown demand a trade from there. 

I agree with you Conley would be a nice fit for them, but they will need to make the salaries work. Not sure what other option the Celtics can hope for. Beal will seek more than Ainge would want to pay and another team will give it to them. I think one of Ainge's biggest mistakes is not moving any of these draft picks for this year already. Maybe they can move a pick or 2 for something still.

In the end, they have 1 draft pick asset and a few guys that they could move in trades. But looking at all of the assets they have acquired since that Nets trade, and where they are at now, i would have to think most Celtics' fans would at least be questioning or wondering what the plan has been. It seems that some C's fans do which is nice, but many keep drinking the Kool Aid and are just saying that things are fine with Brown and Tatum going forward. 
Is it really Ainge's fault that no true superstar wants to play in Boston? They have not been able to get a marquee player sign as a free agent, and any top tier player has indicated he wouldn't re-sign there if acquired by trade. Bottom line, in today's NBA you can't win without a Top 5-ish player and the Celtics can't get one.

Most recently, what good would it have done if they traded say Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3 first round picks to the Pelicans for Davis? It's doubtful Kyrie would have stuck around. They wouldn't have won anything, AD wouldn't have stayed, and they would have to start completely over next year. Who knows, maybe that is better than being stuck in no man's land, but in this case I don't really think Ainge should have pulled the trigger on Davis.

The real killer for Boston was signing Horford and Hayward to max deals, as neither one was really worthy of that kind of money. Hayward getting hurt didn't help any.

Lots of teams don't have Top 5 players, so most of the league is in the same boat. Realistically, how many teams have a legit chance to win?

 
What players could they trade Green for that wouldn't upset Curry, Klay, and KD? Even a Green for Horford swap wouldn't be received well. The Dubs would have to get the better player and I don't think those guys are available.

Trading Green when Klay and KD is injured would be a great way to fracture a relationship with Curry.
I wouldnt want to pay green the max after next season.  His value is very high right now.  Lots of teams have cap space as well.

Resign klay and durant then trade green for mulitiple pieces.  Next year is lost anyway.

Curry is under contract.  He will survive.

 
I wouldnt want to pay green the max after next season.  His value is very high right now.  Lots of teams have cap space as well.

Resign klay and durant then trade green for mulitiple pieces.  Next year is lost anyway.

Curry is under contract.  He will survive.
Most likely next year won't be great for GSW, but the recovery time for KD and Klay should be around 9 months (at least that's what the time frame has been for other players getting back on the court with similar injuries).

Theoretically, they might be able to come back with 20-25 games left in the regular season. Last year it took 48 wins to make the playoffs in the West . . . could the Warriors win that many next year with 3/4 of their games with Curry - Green - and ??? (This obviously would mean KD sticks around, which is far from a given.) Certainly no one would fault KD for taking his sweet time coming back, seeing how it went when he tried to rush back.

 
Daywalker said:
As opposed to paying green the max for his 30-35 age seasons when u can get a haul for him now and save 50+ million in luxury tax a year?
I really don't think there would be much of a market for him, and getting a "haul" would be difficult.  Green is an elite role player, but not a player to build an offense around.  I don't think he'd function well on a team not ready to contend, and I don't think a team trying to build a contender, but not ready to contend, would want to risk taking him on.  So you're looking at a contender who can absorb his contract, but still return a haul for GS?  I don't see what those situations would be.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Do you think they will re-sign him? 

I’d love them to go after Bogdanovic.  One can never had too many Bogdanovics on a team.
Reunite the brothers!  I think they could be a more devastating tandem than the Curry's if given the opportunity.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Do you think they will re-sign him? 

I’d love them to go after Bogdanovic.  One can never had too many Bogdanovics on a team.
Let's just have a team of Bogdos & Reddicks & Plumlees & Graysons & Nurkics & Jokics & Icicics and all the other plucky ofays chasing jukesters around and above the floor. Boston could host...

 
Anarchy99 said:
Is it really Ainge's fault that no true superstar wants to play in Boston? They have not been able to get a marquee player sign as a free agent, and any top tier player has indicated he wouldn't re-sign there if acquired by trade. Bottom line, in today's NBA you can't win without a Top 5-ish player and the Celtics can't get one.

Most recently, what good would it have done if they traded say Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3 first round picks to the Pelicans for Davis? It's doubtful Kyrie would have stuck around. They wouldn't have won anything, AD wouldn't have stayed, and they would have to start completely over next year. Who knows, maybe that is better than being stuck in no man's land, but in this case I don't really think Ainge should have pulled the trigger on Davis.

The real killer for Boston was signing Horford and Hayward to max deals, as neither one was really worthy of that kind of money. Hayward getting hurt didn't help any.

Lots of teams don't have Top 5 players, so most of the league is in the same boat. Realistically, how many teams have a legit chance to win?
well I would hardly say OKC, Toronto, or Philly were top spots for marquee players either, but all went out and got some. Celtics had more assets than any team in the NBA for a bit, so saying they couldn't go out and get anybody isn't really the case (except for the stipulation with trading for Davis mid-season this season). Agreed that paying as much as the Lakers paid for Davis wouldn't make sense, but it seems too much of a trend with available players and the Celtics. they get mentioned by national media as possible landing spots, than after another team gets the player the media around the team make excuses why they couldn't get this player.

the excuse last summer was 2-fold. One they weren't willing to give up Jaylon Brown in a trade for Kawhi, and the other was that they were saving up their assets for Davis. I can see making these choices based on team evaluations etc, and things always look better in hindsight, but this has been a trend with Boston for 3-4 years. I just think they held on to too many assets for too long and most of them have lost value. and it is just strange that a good portion of the fanbase seems to take the Boston front office word at all of these things and doesn't question more. Celtics seem like they could have easily acquired a guy like Jimmy Butler, or Cousins last year, or half a dozen others.

ETA: I just think the front office should be questioned more. they had a better opportunity than almost any team in the league to make improvements and get to a higher tier, and they seem to just have wasted it all away by being too conservative. Maybe all of the role guys they have can make big leaps and the team turns out fine, I just think it looks like a lost opportunity when they got such great trade returns from the Nets

 
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