What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2020 MLB Spring Training (8 Viewers)

Gally said:
Has it ever come out how often the system was used?  30% of home games?  90% of home games?  How many pitches per game?  I just wonder how big of an impact it actually had and without knowing how often it was implemented or used in a game it's tough to say.
Click to expand...
Here's one study on the trash can bangs: http://signstealingscandal.com/

Sept. 21 is when Danny Farquhar caught onto the trash can bangs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gally said:
Has it ever come out how often the system was used?  30% of home games?  90% of home games?  How many pitches per game?  I just wonder how big of an impact it actually had and without knowing how often it was implemented or used in a game it's tough to say.
Click to expand...
There was a guy on Twitter who compiled stats for the whole thing with percentages of how much each player used it. Altuve was only around 2% if I recall correctly. Others over 20%. 

 
NREC34 said:
There was a guy on Twitter who compiled stats for the whole thing with percentages of how much each player used it. Altuve was only around 2% if I recall correctly. Others over 20%. 
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that was % of bangs. It didn't count all the fastball non-bangs in the totals (which is obviously impossible to do).

 
NREC34 said:
There was a guy on Twitter who compiled stats for the whole thing with percentages of how much each player used it. Altuve was only around 2% if I recall correctly. Others over 20%. 
Click to expand...
Is that based on AB's (20% of at bats) or of pitches faced?  I also assume it is only for home games as well.   If those numbers are correct this is even less of a big deal to me.  That basically equates to one AB a home game. 

ETA:  After looking at the link from above these stats are only based on bangs vs total pitches.  It would have more meaning if it was bangs per off speed pitches if that is what the banging was indicating.  Then you could get a percentage of off speed pitches that were theoretically known by the batter.  Although this bangs vs total pitch numbers have some merit I am not sure how meaningful they actually are to figure out the context of how much this was actually used. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Smack Tripper said:
Absolute disaster of a press conference.  These guys had months of prep, and presumably spent 6-7 figures on some kind of crisis management and they come out with that?
Click to expand...
This is where i think you are likely incorrect. The arrogance of the organization is astonishing - they likely attempted to handle their PR "in-house". I don't see any way they paid someone for their implemented strategy. My word.

 
If it comes out Altuve wore a buzzer for that homer I can’t imagine how good it’d be for baseball regaining popularity. 

Would suck for him personally of course. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
Absolute disaster of a press conference.  These guys had months of prep, and presumably spent 6-7 figures on some kind of crisis management and they come out with that?  Crane doesn't think it affected things, its as tough on the team and Houston... Bregman, a guy who couldn't shut up all year... 35 second statement.  
Click to expand...
It’s astonishing how poor their PR has been through this. 

 
bigmarc27 said:
It’s astonishing how poor their PR has been through this. 
Click to expand...
What do you want them to say that would make you happy? Honest question. 

Giving back the title ain’t happening if you are thinking about going there. 

I’ve heard many current and former players apologize and I’ve seen the GM and Manager lose their jobs as well as all of the other penalties. 

So what exactly do you and everyone else want?

 
NREC34 said:
What do you want them to say that would make you happy? Honest question. 

Giving back the title ain’t happening if you are thinking about going there. 

I’ve heard many current and former players apologize and I’ve seen the GM and Manager lose their jobs as well as all of the other penalties. 

So what exactly do you and everyone else want?
Click to expand...
Say “we did it, we apologize” and actually sound like you mean it instead of reading a script. Answer the questions and stop deflecting. Show contrition. This isn’t that hard. This team has set themselves to get #### on for at least this entire season if not more. Stop acting like it’s not a big deal (it’s very apparent opposing players believe it’s a big deal) and maybe people can move on. 

 
NREC34 said:
What do you want them to say that would make you happy? Honest question. 

Giving back the title ain’t happening if you are thinking about going there. 

I’ve heard many current and former players apologize and I’ve seen the GM and Manager lose their jobs as well as all of the other penalties. 

So what exactly do you and everyone else want?
Click to expand...
There is nothing they could have said that would have changed anyone's minds.  Not one person who is currently mad at them would have changed their mind no matter what they said.  It's that simple.  People love to complain. 

 
NREC34 said:
What do you want them to say that would make you happy? Honest question. 

Giving back the title ain’t happening if you are thinking about going there. 

I’ve heard many current and former players apologize and I’ve seen the GM and Manager lose their jobs as well as all of the other penalties. 

So what exactly do you and everyone else want?
Click to expand...
They seem to have just apologized for breaking the rules.  Owner said it gave them no competitive edge, and did not impact the game. That seems a bit of a crock to me.

 
I’m sorry, you two have your heads so far up your ### on this it’s comical. Literally the biggest instance of homerism I’ve probably ever witnessed. 

 
Don Quixote said:
They seem to have just apologized for breaking the rules.  Owner said it gave them no competitive edge, and did not impact the game. That seems a bit of a crock to me.
Click to expand...
It's 100% a crock.  But I don't think he can say otherwise.  

It's also important to note that a lot of teams are doing things illegal to gain an advantage.  Not saying the Astros don't deserve what they got.  I just think if he comes out and says "We got an edge", it makes it seem like they are the only ones.  I know it's splitting hairs, but I can see why he wouldn't want to say that.  

 
Capella said:
How much garbage can/drum banging will the Astros get on road games this year from opposing fans? Almost might get me to watch a non-rays game. 
Click to expand...
I'm sure there will be more than just that.  These guys are going to get (figuratively) killed on the road.  And they should.  But it will also feel awesome as a 'stros fan if they win it all this year.  

 
bigmarc27 said:
I’m sorry, you two have your heads so far up your ### on this it’s comical. Literally the biggest instance of homerism I’ve probably ever witnessed. 
Click to expand...
The Astros and their fans are mad right now. Why? We feel scapegoated. We feel like it was a technological arms race in baseball for a few years a lots of teams were doing the same thing or a similar version of it and if you wanted to compete at the highest levels or win you better be doing something too.

We feel unfairly singled out here because of one disgruntled, child molester ex-employee. We feel like NY gets a pass on everything! I’m sorry, Carlos Beltran didn’t magically transform into a different guy the one year he was in Houston but because he goes by a code that 99.9% of players follow he will never implicate anyone else. 

Let’s see what happens if Boston also gets hammered. Will the public or guys on this board be as harsh to them and parse every word any of them say about it? Or conjure up conspiracy theories they can’t prove about them? I doubt it. 

It the unfairness of all this that pisses us off. 

There you have it. At least my opinion of it. 

Sorry you can’t accept our apologies for being the scourge of baseball. 

 
NREC34 said:
The Astros and their fans are mad right now. Why? We feel scapegoated. We feel like it was a technological arms race in baseball for a few years a lots of teams were doing the same thing or a similar version of it and if you wanted to compete at the highest levels or win you better be doing something too.

We feel unfairly singled out here because of one disgruntled, child molester ex-employee. We feel like NY gets a pass on everything! I’m sorry, Carlos Beltran didn’t magically transform into a different guy the one year he was in Houston but because he goes by a code that 99.9% of players follow he will never implicate anyone else. 

Let’s see what happens if Boston also gets hammered. Will the public or guys on this board be as harsh to them and parse every word any of them say about it? Or conjure up conspiracy theories they can’t prove about them? I doubt it. 

It the unfairness of all this that pisses us off. 

There you have it. At least my opinion of it. 

Sorry you can’t accept our apologies for being the scourge of baseball. 
Click to expand...
Cut the victim crap. You didn’t have anything to do with it. You just root for some dumb team because you live near them or your dad did or whatever. Persecution over some stupid sports team is the dumbest fan thing there is.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
It's 100% a crock.  But I don't think he can say otherwise.  

It's also important to note that a lot of teams are doing things illegal to gain an advantage.  Not saying the Astros don't deserve what they got.  I just think if he comes out and says "We got an edge", it makes it seem like they are the only ones.  I know it's splitting hairs, but I can see why he wouldn't want to say that.  
Click to expand...
I think he can say otherwise. Altuve just said in clubhouse afterward that it impacted the game, and people on Twitter that he was better than how Crane handled it. Not hard.

 
Capella said:
Cut the victim crap. You didn’t have anything to do with it. You just root for some dumb team because you live near them or your dad did or whatever. Persecution over some stupid sports team is the dumbest fan thing there is.  
Click to expand...
Closest team to me are the Reds who happened to play the Astros a lot and be on the tv a lot when I was growing up. My whole family like the Reds. I just liked Nolan Ryan, Jose Cruz and the tequila sunrise uniforms I guess. 

 
shadyridr said:
Crane said it didn't impact the game and 55 seconds later said he didn't say that
Click to expand...
And then later he was asked "since sign stealing is an advantage to the hitter then wouldn't that impact the competition?" He said  "it could possibly do that, it could possibly not."

Good to see him clear it up.

 
It's a shame the Astros stole signs and didn't do something that's more easily forgivable.  You know, like rape someone in Colorado. 

 
For all the people saying Boston had plenty of money lying around to give Mookie whatever he wanted, there was an article by Jayson Stark on The Athletic a few days ago that outlined what would have happened if Boston had kept Betts and Price and did not get under the CBT. Basically, what would have happened if Boston just stayed above the tax line indefinitely and never had the tax multiplier reset. If Mookie was extended for $40 million a year, with the tax included, it would have cost Boston $78 million a year for Betts (I believe that was the number . . . based on a 95% tax rate for exceeding and maintaining all 3 conditions to achieve the max CBT tax rate). I won't argue with people that would point out that Boston had other ways to get under the CBT baseline this year. However, I certainly don't think it would have been easy.  Other teams did not want Price unless they got a really good incentive to take him (in reality, Betts). That's why teams can't just live over the tax threshold for forever. Betts is good . . . but $70+ million a year good?

 
NREC34 said:
I just wish the Braves would have offered more sincere apologies when they cheated a few years ago. 
Click to expand...
Copolella was banned for life and everyone in the front office he brought in was let go whether they were directly implicated or not. We completely cleaned house.
 

They also answered all questions and were contrite:

”Atlanta braced fans for the sanctions when team chairman Terry McGuirk apologized to fans "on behalf of the entire Braves family" for the rules violations at the news conference to introduce Anthopoulos.

The Braves said in a statement they "understand and accept the decision regarding the penalties that have been handed down.

"As we expressed last week, our organization has not lived up to the standard our fans expect from us and that we expect from ourselves. For that, we apologize. We are instituting the changes necessary to prevent this from ever happening again and remain excited about the future of Braves baseball."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/11/21/braves-lose-9-international-players-in-mlb-sanctions/107917746/
 

Soooo basically they did everything the Astros have not. GTFO. 

 
bigmarc27 said:
Copolella was banned for life and everyone in the front office he brought in was let go whether they were directly implicated or not. We completely cleaned house.
 

They also answered all questions and were contrite:

”Atlanta braced fans for the sanctions when team chairman Terry McGuirk apologized to fans "on behalf of the entire Braves family" for the rules violations at the news conference to introduce Anthopoulos.

The Braves said in a statement they "understand and accept the decision regarding the penalties that have been handed down.

"As we expressed last week, our organization has not lived up to the standard our fans expect from us and that we expect from ourselves. For that, we apologize. We are instituting the changes necessary to prevent this from ever happening again and remain excited about the future of Braves baseball."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/11/21/braves-lose-9-international-players-in-mlb-sanctions/107917746/
 

Soooo basically they did everything the Astros have not. GTFO. 
Click to expand...
They didn’t mean it though. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
For all the people saying Boston had plenty of money lying around to give Mookie whatever he wanted, there was an article by Jayson Stark on The Athletic a few days ago that outlined what would have happened if Boston had kept Betts and Price and did not get under the CBT. Basically, what would have happened if Boston just stayed above the tax line indefinitely and never had the tax multiplier reset. If Mookie was extended for $40 million a year, with the tax included, it would have cost Boston $78 million a year for Betts (I believe that was the number . . . based on a 95% tax rate for exceeding and maintaining all 3 conditions to achieve the max CBT tax rate). I won't argue with people that would point out that Boston had other ways to get under the CBT baseline this year. However, I certainly don't think it would have been easy.  Other teams did not want Price unless they got a really good incentive to take him (in reality, Betts). That's why teams can't just live over the tax threshold for forever. Betts is good . . . but $70+ million a year good?
Click to expand...
They own Liverpool. 70M is a absolutely nothing to them. Stop buying that argument. 

 
Capella said:
They own Liverpool. 70M is a absolutely nothing to them. Stop buying that argument. 
Click to expand...
They also could’ve not given Eovaldi $16MM a year as a reward for that postseason.

If the Yankees were able to manage their payroll to get under the tax line to avoid the multiplier effect without losing any star players, the Red Sox should have been able to as well. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm a Braves and Nats fan, and I'll forever contend the Astors did nothing wrong and they should have gone with that as their defense.  Everyone is stealing signs.  This is all about the mechanisms used to do it and how one is ok but one isn't.  To me - whether a player at 2nd base, a coach picking up a pitcher's tell, a guy in center field beating a drum, or a wire telling a player what's coming - doesn't matter.  It's all stealing signs.  Teams should have done a better job to combat it.  Like have the pitcher and catcher wear electronics to avoid the other team stealing anything.  or the pitcher doing a better job hiding his grip.  To me this ihas been one giant non-story.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brunell4MVP said:
I'm a Braves and Nats fan, and I'll forever contend the Astors did nothing wrong and they should have gone with that as their defense.  Everyone is stealing signs.  This is all about the mechanisms used to do it and how one is ok but one isn't.  To me - whether a player at 2nd base, a coach picking up a pitcher's tell, a guy in center field beating a drum, or a wire telling a player what's coming - doesn't matter.  It's all stealing signs.  Teams should have done a better job to combat it.  Like have the pitcher and catcher wear electronics to avoid the other team stealing anything.  or the pitcher doing a better job hiding his grip.  To me this ihas been one giant non-story.
Click to expand...
Agree with most of this. The unfair part is that they’re being singled out and scapegoated and bearing the brunt of all the faux, pearl-clutching outrage. 

I am rooting for a different whistle blower to emerge. Specifically about the NY Yankees. 

Probably won’t happen though. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brunell4MVP said:
I'm a Braves and Nats fan, and I'll forever contend the Astors did nothing wrong and they should have gone with that as their defense.  Everyone is stealing signs.  This is all about the mechanisms used to do it and how one is ok but one isn't.  To me - whether a player at 2nd base, a coach picking up a pitcher's tell, a guy in center field beating a drum, or a wire telling a player what's coming - doesn't matter.  It's all stealing signs.  Teams should have done a better job to combat it.  Like have the pitcher and catcher wear electronics to avoid the other team stealing anything.  or the pitcher doing a better job hiding his grip.  To me this ihas been one giant non-story.
Click to expand...
Obviously this is one of Sheik's aliases.  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BobbyLayne
Veterans Day
Replies
6
Views
309
rustycolts
rustycolts
TLEF316
Online gambling addiction
Replies
36
Views
1K
The Z Machine
The Z Machine
V
Career Advice - New Job Choice and Exit Strategy
Replies
21
Views
1K
Hawks64
Hawks64

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 9 (members: 0, guests: 9)
Top