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gianmarco

Neighbor cut down our tree

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Just now, Oracle said:

Oh, FFS....Except from the getgo the OP was looking for a payout and he has not owned his little ***** behavior!

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 

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8 hours ago, culdeus said:

That's great, it's one of those great things about the internet.  Showing your work isn't really required.  You can ascribe all sorts of holier than thou assertions, and who is anyone to challenge you on what a great guy you are.  

On the internet people can be a great tipper, sort all their recycling perfectly, pay for porn, and surely they'd just let their neighbor destroy their #### and let it go because who needs stress of a bad neighbor, right?

It takes no courage to project this, and you walk away with the perceived moral high ground.  Congrats.

I think you're getting at something here. Because you may be cheap, petty and vindictive, the assumption is everyone else must be as well? Otherwise, you'd have to accept your own shortcomings, which takes a lot more courage than calling out an anonymous poster in the ether. Not only do you maintain self esteem, you garner internet tough guy points with your approach. 👍

Seriously though, I don't think anyone was claiming moral superiority, just offering their opinion. After getting more info on the situation mine has changed btw, like a handful other posters in the thread. I even admitted I was wrong. Not sure how that reconciles with your worldview.

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8 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

And that directly answered your question about why he's entitled to damages and also addressed the "punishment" (which let's face it you threw out there in a derogatory manner). I'm not saying people should be "sue happy" but there is a legitimate reason underlying tort law.

OK, but that wasn't what I was getting at. And after hearing additional details of the case, I'm more in line with punishing the neighbor. 

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7 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

Holy carp, did he really go from 90% to 75% in the span of a few sentences? As this guy is in construction, he probably knows where to get a low-ball estimate. I'd get one or two of my own.

Edited by Terminalxylem
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6 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Here are your 2 points

My property is on the right side of the picture, if you believe I'm not trying to be misleading.  You can also see the "X" on the downed tree, if you believe that's the actual tree that I'm talking about.

Oh, I see his point. Almost all of the tree is on his side of the line. You only have a portion of the stump.

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5 hours ago, chet said:

Right.  He's continuing to lie to you.  A simple recount of your conversation with the arborist will let him know that you know he's lying.

I thought about doing that too, but I'm not sure that will benefit gianmarco, outside the satisfaction of calling him out to his face. A guy like that will likely just continue to play dumb, or become obstructionist just to make this more painful for Gian.

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32 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Holy carp, did he really go from 90% to 75% in the span of a few sentences? As this guy is in construction, he probably knows where to get a low-ball estimate. I'd gat one or two of my own.

No, he didn't go there. I was saying that it's about 90% mine. That's my interpretation of the stump and where that property line is.

His interpretation of the same situation is 75/25. 

You can decide on your own based on the pictures I provided. 

 

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6 hours ago, chet said:

Sounds like your neighbor is more than a bit of a #### so you're in a tricky situation.  He may say the right things but as you've written it, there's no doubt that he knew what he was doing and was in a "ask for forgiveness instead of permission" mode.   I read iguana's suggestion which had merit but for me might be a little too milquetoast.  I think I'd probably be a little more aggressive and let him know who the alpha dog is so he doesn't try to pull any other shady #### in the future.  That approach risks escalating the situation to the point of no return though.  

Are you suggesting Gianmarco pees on the property line, or right up to it?

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1 minute ago, gianmarco said:

No, he didn't go there. I was saying that it's about 90% mine. That's my interpretation of the stump and where that property line is.

His interpretation of the same situation is 75/25. 

You can decide on your own based on the pictures I provided. 

 

Oh, I see. Doesn't really matter, as you've already pointed out. But I agree he's trying to insinuate his ownership as a ploy to reduce the offer.

I'm with you in never involving lawyers in any disputes (including a divorce). I hope you can keep this amicable.

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8 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

No, he didn't go there. I was saying that it's about 90% mine. That's my interpretation of the stump and where that property line is.

His interpretation of the same situation is 75/25. 

You can decide on your own based on the pictures I provided. 

 

13.7 percent his side, 86.3 yours. 

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5 hours ago, gianmarco said:

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

make sure he includes the price of a 6' high wood fence to separate your properties in his offer.

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7 hours ago, gianmarco said:

This is a great example.  Dogs aren't worth much monetarily.  But you can't "replace" an actual dog.  So does getting a check for $3K or $5K or $20K bring the dog back?  Of course not.  But you better believe I'd go after every penny I could from someone that did that. 

This truly isn't that far off in terms of how I feel about what happened being almost 100% certain of his intent here.  This isn't a money grab.  I'm telling you if the guy offered me a check of $20K today and I had the option of taking it or just going back in time and not having to deal with any of this, I'd rather just have the tree.  But I'm not turning down his check of $20K when he intentionally took down a tree he was clearly advised was almost certainly not on his property before it came down.

That contractor knows how much a mature tree like that is worth, and knew he was taking a big monetary risk by cutting it down illegally. And he sounds like an all around scumbag.

Get your own estimates from landscaping companies that specialize in this (someone maybe @Fish covered that upthread) and tell him to pay you triple that. That's a fair settlement. Otherwise, he'll pay that plus legal fees.

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On 10/16/2019 at 12:33 PM, DA RAIDERS said:

i'm still pissed about the first ever bunch of bananas, that someone stole (gardeners), that my banana trees ever produced.  it made my daughter cry!!!  ####ers!!!!  currently have 2 bunches growing.  i watch them like a hawk.  i've considered throwing a tomato plant cage around them and electrifying it.  people suck

Banana plants are not trees. 

Edited by VandyMan
Technically. But I call them trees, too.

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Just wondering what would be his motive for doing it intentionally? 

Not like he’s building something right on the line. 

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

No, he didn't go there. I was saying that it's about 90% mine. That's my interpretation of the stump and where that property line is.

His interpretation of the same situation is 75/25. 

You can decide on your own based on the pictures I provided. 

 

Based on what you said it doesn’t matter. That said if you extended two lines from the center point of the trunk to the two edges that are on the property line roughly 25% of the trees (including branches and limbs) were likely on his property. I’m assuming his position will be he could have legally trimmed about 25% of the tree up to the line

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37 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Just wondering what would be his motive for doing it intentionally? 

Not like he’s building something right on the line. 

Landscaping he wanted to put. And no "acorns".

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11 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, there are stakes all up and down the line.  The rest of the foliage he wants to remove is mostly on our side as well.  I told him we don't want anything cut on our side of the stakes.

Take lots of pictures ahead of time.

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14 hours ago, ffweasel said:

Has there ever been any update on WhatsAppGate? 

Thread was deleted and we mustn't ever speak of it again.  The-thead-that-must-not-be-named.

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11 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Landscaping he wanted to put. And no "acorns".

now you're just being mean.....

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If he comes with a low ball price, counter with $50 million.  When he looks at you like you're an idiot, say, "OK.  Are we done throwing out ridiculous numbers?  Because my lawyer says I can probably take you for about 50 grand.  But I don't want to get lawyers involved.  I want us to not be enemies.  So let's maybe come to an agreement on a number lower than what my lawyer wants.  Say, 25 grand?"  Then let him squirm.  Right now he's trying to put the pressure on you to be the bad guy and name a high price.  Make you seem like the bad guy.  Turn it around on him.  Because something tells me he doesn't care if you two are good friends for the rest of the time you guys live next to each other.  

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12 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Based on what you said it doesn’t matter. That said if you extended two lines from the center point of the trunk to the two edges that are on the property line roughly 25% of the trees (including branches and limbs) were likely on his property. I’m assuming his position will be he could have legally trimmed about 25% of the tree up to the line

I believe he said earlier that if a tree falls on the line, both parties own it and anything done to the tree has to be agreed upon by both owners.  One owner cant cut down their side of the tree or make any changes to their side without consent of the other owner.

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5 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

 

12 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Based on what you said it doesn’t matter. That said if you extended two lines from the center point of the trunk to the two edges that are on the property line roughly 25% of the trees (including branches and limbs) were likely on his property. I’m assuming his position will be he could have legally trimmed about 25% of the tree up to the line

I believe he said earlier that if a tree falls on the line, both parties own it and anything done to the tree has to be agreed upon by both owners.  One owner cant cut down their side of the tree or make any changes to their side without consent of the other owner.

 

May be different in other states but in my state even if the tree is 100% on my property, the neighbor can trim any branches that overhang their property.

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

May be different in other states but in my state even if the tree is 100% on my property, the neighbor can trim any branches that overhang their property.

You might be right, GB.  Honestly, I was just repeating what was mentioned earlier on in this thread.  I have no first hand knowledge on this subject matter.  But I know that when the threads move fast like this one, things can get missed.  So I was just passing along that bit of info that was mentioned.

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21 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

May be different in other states but in my state even if the tree is 100% on my property, the neighbor can trim any branches that overhang their property.

Yes, they can trim any branches on their side. Of course, with this tree, those branches would have been 30+ feet high, but sure. 

It doesn't even have to be pretty. But you can't cross the property line and you can't harm the tree as a result where it becomes sick and dies from your actions.

Edited by gianmarco
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49 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

If he comes with a low ball price, counter with $50 million.  When he looks at you like you're an idiot, say, "OK.  Are we done throwing out ridiculous numbers?  Because my lawyer says I can probably take you for about 50 grand.  But I don't want to get lawyers involved.  I want us to not be enemies.  So let's maybe come to an agreement on a number lower than what my lawyer wants.  Say, 25 grand?"  Then let him squirm.  Right now he's trying to put the pressure on you to be the bad guy and name a high price.  Make you seem like the bad guy.  Turn it around on him.  Because something tells me he doesn't care if you two are good friends for the rest of the time you guys live next to each other.  

Impossible to believe they end up as friends at this point. But who wants to befriend that jerk? 

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27 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Impossible to believe they end up as friends at this point. But who wants to befriend that jerk? 

Close to 0% chance of it happening.  Not that I won't be friendly, but he just doesn't seem like the type I'll be chumming it up with.

On the flipside, my neighbor on my other side is the nicest guy.  Older gentleman and we were chatting for about 15 minutes just yesterday talking about his wife's recent trip, our trip, and whatnot.  Always a friendly wave when we see each other since we moved in and I can't see ever having any issues with him.  That dude would never take down my tree.  That said, that unknown animal came from his side, so who knows what kind of stuff he's otherwise planning..... 

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For @wilked

Now that some of the stuff has been cleared out, here's a picture of the area.

That's the front corner of our house.  Those 2 trees to the left are both mine.  That smaller tree is about 30 feet tall, for scale.  The tree that came down was almost identical to the taller one you see and occupied that clear space you see between that tree and the trees you see further behind.  If it was still standing, you wouldn't see sky in between that area.  It was in the same general line as that taller tree you see, which is only a couple feet inside our property line.  In fact, you can see a couple stumps next to it that were on his side that he took down.  I'll also mention that it was just outside our only bedroom window on that side, providing some privacy.  That's now gone.

Of note, those tall trees further back are on his side and I believe are also marked to come down.  The entire landscape of what we bought is going to look very different.  I can't tell him what to do with his trees, but this is not a small change to what we bought into.

Edited by gianmarco
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You should plant some of that rapidly growing bamboo over there. That stuff will spread like wildfire.

He'll wish he had acorns. :lol:

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1 hour ago, TheIronSheik said:

Because something tells me he doesn't care if you two are good friends for the rest of the time you guys live next to each other.  

This is surely not the way to start if that was his goal.

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A wizard should know better.  Many of those trees were my friends. They had voices of their own!

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

For @wilked

Now that some of the stuff has been cleared out, here's a picture of the area.

That's the front corner of our house.  Those 2 trees to the left are both mine.  That smaller tree is about 30 feet tall, for scale.  The tree that came down was almost identical to the taller one you see and occupied that clear space you see between that tree and the trees you see further behind.  If it was still standing, you wouldn't see sky in between that area.  It was in the same general line as that taller tree you see, which is only a couple feet inside our property line.  In fact, you can see a couple stumps next to it that were on his side that he took down.  I'll also mention that it was just outside our only bedroom window on that side, providing some privacy.  That's now gone.

Of note, those tall trees further back are on his side and I believe are also marked to come down.  The entire landscape of what we bought is going to look very different.  I can't tell him what to do with his trees, but this is not a small change to what we bought into.

Ya, I can see what you're getting at.  Very different than I pictured.  You're right - changes the dynamics of your yard quite a bit (the whole thing, not just the tree, but the tree obv helped to preserve what dynamic you had).

I've come around - clear need for compensation.  

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3 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

If he comes with a low ball price, counter with $50 million.  When he looks at you like you're an idiot, say, "OK.  Are we done throwing out ridiculous numbers?  Because my lawyer says I can probably take you for about 50 grand.  But I don't want to get lawyers involved.  I want us to not be enemies.  So let's maybe come to an agreement on a number lower than what my lawyer wants.  Say, 25 grand?"  Then let him squirm.  Right now he's trying to put the pressure on you to be the bad guy and name a high price.  Make you seem like the bad guy.  Turn it around on him.  Because something tells me he doesn't care if you two are good friends for the rest of the time you guys live next to each other.  

This is probably a guaranteed way of making an enemy of your neighbor.   

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10 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

This is probably a guaranteed way of making an enemy of your neighbor.   

But just think of the 'likes' he'd get here! 

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15 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

This is probably a guaranteed way of making an enemy of your neighbor.   

You didn't let me finish.  I was going to say, after he leaves, burn his house down.  Then leave a note asking if he's seen your pet otter in his yard.

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THE NEXT GUY TO SAY ACORNS IS GETTING A PUNCH IN THE MOUTH#$@

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4 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, they can trim any branches on their side. Of course, with this tree, those branches would have been 30+ feet high, but sure. 

It doesn't even have to be pretty. But you can't cross the property line and you can't harm the tree as a result where it becomes sick and dies from your actions.

That's not always true, and depends on your state.  In some states, you could cut off all of the roots on your side even if it kills the tree.

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How far away from each other are your houses?

#buildthewall

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Great thread. I don't see this ending well for him. Can we start taking guesses on what we think he's going to offer?

I'm guessing that he doesn't see this as nearly the big deal that you (rightfully so) do, and probably figures the worst that will happen is that he will end up with an unhappy neighbor. I mean, he already had to pay someone to cut down the tree, I doubt he's expecting to now spend more money to compensate you for it.

My guess is that he never replies to you at all. After a week or so of you badgering him, he offers a sincere apologize and promises some "free construction services the next time you have a project going on". I also predict his head is going to explode when you counter with $15K. 

:popcorn:

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35 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

Great thread. I don't see this ending well for him. Can we start taking guesses on what we think he's going to offer?

I'm guessing that he doesn't see this as nearly the big deal that you (rightfully so) do, and probably figures the worst that will happen is that he will end up with an unhappy neighbor. I mean, he already had to pay someone to cut down the tree, I doubt he's expecting to now spend more money to compensate you for it.

My guess is that he never replies to you at all. After a week or so of you badgering him, he offers a sincere apologize and promises some "free construction services the next time you have a project going on". I also predict his head is going to explode when you counter with $15K. 

:popcorn:

Yep, I'm seeing this the same way.

Now that things have calmed down a bit and was able to talk to the wife about it, we decided that a couple evergreens in that area would actually be better.  First of all, our air conditioning units are there, so decreasing leaves falling in that area isn't a bad thing.  Second, we are both fans of spruce trees and that would be a great spot to put them.  It'll keep in line with his idea of some evergreens for his landscaping that he mentioned and will stay full and green all year and work better for privacy anyway.  Finally, they have larger trees for them available and they grow much faster.

The same company that had the largest hardwood trees (oak or maple) has 25-30 foot Norway Spruce available.  At $4750 per tree with planting, a couple of those would be sufficient to call it a day.  Instant privacy and mature trees to fill in that area.  It won't be the same as before, but I'd be quite happy with that and may turn out to be a better situation in the end.  I'll even consider just asking for them outright if he asks me again next week what I'd like to have done.  If he balks, then we'll be going for 3 of them.

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3 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Yep, I'm seeing this the same way.

Now that things have calmed down a bit and was able to talk to the wife about it, we decided that a couple evergreens in that area would actually be better.  First of all, our air conditioning units are there, so decreasing leaves falling in that area isn't a bad thing.  Second, we are both fans of spruce trees and that would be a great spot to put them.  It'll keep in line with his idea of some evergreens for his landscaping that he mentioned and will stay full and green all year and work better for privacy anyway.  Finally, they have larger trees for them available and they grow much faster.

The same company that had the largest hardwood trees (oak or maple) has 25-30 foot Norway Spruce available.  At $4750 per tree with planting, a couple of those would be sufficient to call it a day.  Instant privacy and mature trees to fill in that area.  It won't be the same as before, but I'd be quite happy with that and may turn out to be a better situation in the end.  I'll even consider just asking for them outright if he asks me again next week what I'd like to have done.  If he balks, then we'll be going for 3 of them.

I'm not a lawyer but maybe one could answer this:  If gian asks for something, like one tree, and the guy says no.  If this were to go to court, and gian is now asking for three, would that look bad?  Just wondering if there's a downside for him asking for less, but then later asking for more?

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10 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I'm not a lawyer but maybe one could answer this:  If gian asks for something, like one tree, and the guy says no.  If this were to go to court, and gian is now asking for three, would that look bad?  Just wondering if there's a downside for him asking for less, but then later asking for more?

I would think it would be a matter of trying to keep it out of the courts.  I would probably preface my request with something along the lines of  "even though legally I'm entitled to more, if you plant 2 of these, we'd be satisfied with this as a replacement and think this is reasonable."

Same as if someone damaged my car and I asked for $500 and call it a day, if they refuse, I'm pretty sure I can then take it in to get fixed and seek whatever amount it cost, even if more than $500.

Edited by gianmarco
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11 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Yep, I'm seeing this the same way.

Now that things have calmed down a bit and was able to talk to the wife about it, we decided that a couple evergreens in that area would actually be better.  First of all, our air conditioning units are there, so decreasing leaves falling in that area isn't a bad thing.  Second, we are both fans of spruce trees and that would be a great spot to put them.  It'll keep in line with his idea of some evergreens for his landscaping that he mentioned and will stay full and green all year and work better for privacy anyway.  Finally, they have larger trees for them available and they grow much faster.

The same company that had the largest hardwood trees (oak or maple) has 25-30 foot Norway Spruce available.  At $4750 per tree with planting, a couple of those would be sufficient to call it a day.  Instant privacy and mature trees to fill in that area.  It won't be the same as before, but I'd be quite happy with that and may turn out to be a better situation in the end.  I'll even consider just asking for them outright if he asks me again next week what I'd like to have done.  If he balks, then we'll be going for 3 of them.

If you do this, please for the love of God present it to him like this:

"We would like two......... shrubbery's! Place one slightly higher so you get the two-level effect with a little path running down the middle!"

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18 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I'm not a lawyer but maybe one could answer this:  If gian asks for something, like one tree, and the guy says no.  If this were to go to court, and gian is now asking for three, would that look bad?  Just wondering if there's a downside for him asking for less, but then later asking for more?

In most states there are rules of evidence that exclude settlement discussions from being admissible.   Depending on the state, there may be magic language that you need to use in order to ensure that the discussions are protected.

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18 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I would think it would be a matter of trying to keep it out of the courts.  I would probably preface my request with something along the lines of  "even though legally I'm entitled to more, if you plant 2 of these, we'd be satisfied with this as a replacement and think this is reasonable."

Same as if someone damaged my car and I asked for $500 and call it a day, if they refuse, I'm pretty sure I can then take it in to get fixed and seek whatever amount it cost, even if more than $500.

How about that and he makes you a huge dining room table out of the hickory that seats 12?

Edited by Johnny Rock
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I’d put the over/under at $1,500 for neighbors first offer. And he’ll hem and haw about going above and beyond what’s required as if doing you a favor. 

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