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Saving the PSF - How can we, as a community, make this place better

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
15 minutes ago, toshiba said:

I think this is a spot on point.  That word is probably worse than any of the other banned words on this forum.

Stop banning everything you don't like? Why does that mentality continue to repeat here over and over and over?

Because Joe is trying to create an atmosphere he can tolerate in the PSF.  But you are probably right, if people can't help themselves and not call out other is such derogatory terms then maybe he is better to shut it down.  The only purpose banning the word here would do would be to make things easier for the mods.

Edited by toshiba

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Been slammed since o started the thread but wanted to pop in and thank all those who responded - some great stuff in here and hopefully we can all take something positive from it.

🤝

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3 minutes ago, toshiba said:

Because Joe is trying to create an atmosphere he can tolerate in the PSF.  But you are probably right, if people can't help themselves and not call out other is such derogatory terms then maybe he is better to shut it down.  The only purpose banning the word here would do would be to make things easier for the mods.

Cant everyone just grow some thick skin and deal with these words on a computer screen?   It's utterly insane the amount of pleading for banning this and ignoring that--  Just man up for goodness sakes.

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Just now, supermike80 said:
5 minutes ago, toshiba said:

Because Joe is trying to create an atmosphere he can tolerate in the PSF.  But you are probably right, if people can't help themselves and not call out other is such derogatory terms then maybe he is better to shut it down.  The only purpose banning the word here would do would be to make things easier for the mods.

Cant everyone just grow some thick skin and deal with these words on a computer screen?   It's utterly insane the amount of pleading for banning this and ignoring that--  Just man up for goodness sakes.

It appears not.  But it seems we are being asked to be better, not just react better.  Both the initial post and the reactions are not making Joe very happy.  

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4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
9 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Yeah, I'd say there's a disconnect.  

But I was wrong to infer it is all Pro Trump people's fault.  :wall:

Yes you were.

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Cant everyone just grow some thick skin and deal with these words on a computer screen?   It's utterly insane the amount of pleading for banning this and ignoring that--  Just man up for goodness sakes.

There is another side to this. Can't everyone just grow up and treat others with respect?

It's a bit of both.

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

There is another side to this. Can't everyone just grow up and treat others with respect?

It's a bit of both.

Oh for sure.   But even if you are nice about a topic and don't say anything about another poster, you could be called a troll...especially if you are pro Trump.  And we want to ban that word now cause why???

Edited by supermike80

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
5 minutes ago, KCitons said:

There is another side to this. Can't everyone just grow up and treat others with respect?

It's a bit of both.

Oh for sure.   But even if you are nice about a topic and don't say anything about another poster, you could be called a troll...especially if you are pro Trump.  And we want to ban that word now cause why???

Edited 1 minute ago by supermike80

Sorry I didn't mean to derail the topic.  I just thought that @Don't Noonan had a fair point.

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@Joe Bryant
 

The shark move is to kill the PSF and I think you know it.  Nobody is going to miss this forum in a couple of weeks.  Mods are wasting time trying to moderate these slap fights when their tine should be spent on content for paying customers.  In the bar analogy, your waiters and bartenders are spending too much time on the “customers” sitting at the bar drinking water and eating free pretzels.  Additionally, how many warnings can you give about being excellent?  It’s not going to happen about politics.  

Just a week ago you made a well-intentioned post about being more excellent to each other.  Within two days many of the posters in here complaining about putting people on ignore and killing trolls were in the Trump thread objectifying Trump supporters based on a picture they found on the internet.  Your mods had to delete almost an entire page from the ONE Trump thread.

You have to know this forum is hurting your bottom line.  In the fantasy football community (also a key Trump demographic) your site now has a reputation of being anti-Trump.  This is largely due to the mob in the PSF.  

In my opinion, thr smart move is to get out of the politics business.  Most of the people in here begging you not to do this are a large part of the problem.  They aren’t going to stop their stereotyping, agitating, and condescension.  They can’t.  Kill it and let everyone argue about the best Star Wars movie in FFA  

Just my observation and two cents.

 

Edited by knowledge dropper
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56 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I think Tim try to fairly capture the issue without really taking sides.  What would be nice if there was some acknowledgement that maybe there is too much hostility in here and we can do better. 

I acknowledge this.  I absolutely try not to be, but I have certainly been hostile when I shouldn't have been.  I try to apologize later.  I've also been taken as hostile when I'm not trying to be, which is something that happens a lot in here, too.  Tone is difficult in typed words.

Heck, the conversation you and I have been having in here has been the subject of private messages sent to me to stop publicly attacking you, and I don't think I'm doing that now.  We should all be more charitable with each other's positions.

Edited by Henry Ford
I guess not completely, since I succumb to my baser instincts sometimes.
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11 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

@Joe 8ryant
 

The shark move is to kill the PSF and I think you know it.  Nobody is going to miss this forum in a couple of weeks.  Mods are wasting time trying to moderate these slap fights when their tine should be spent on content for paying customers.  In the bar analogy, your waiters and bartenders are spending too much time on the “customers” sitting at the bar drinking water and eating free pretzels.  Additionally, how many warnings can you give about being excellent?  It’s not going to happen about politics.  

Just a week ago you made a well-intentioned post about being more excellent to each other.  Within two days many of the posters in here complaining about putting people on ignore and killing trolls were in the Trump thread objectifying Trump supporters based on a picture they found on the internet.  Your mods had to delete almost an entire page from the ONE Trump thread.

You have to know this forum is hurting your bottom line.  In the fantasy football community (also a key Trump demographic) your site now has a reputation of being anti-Trump.  This is largely due to the mob in the PSF.  

In my opinion, thr smart move is to get out of the politics business.  Most of the people in here begging you not to do this are a large part of the problem.  They aren’t going to stop their stereotyping, agitating, and condescension.  They can’t.  Kill it and let everyone argue about the best Star Wars movie in FFA  

Just my observation and two cents.

 

You can't even spell Joe Bryant correctly, you nudnick. 

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21 minutes ago, toshiba said:

You were not clear at all in your post, that was why I sent you the private message I did.

I thought I was. Sorry about that. 

What I was trying to say is that several of us have opposing views as to what is causing this problem- we even have opposing views as to who the “trolls” are (as witness @Ramblin Wreck‘s reaction.) We’re never going to convince each other about this stuff, and yet we need to resolve it because it’s threatening to end this forum. 

In looking back through these several pages since this thread started, I’m pretty sure I’m the only one here who has stated that some of the responsibility is mine, and I pledged to do better. I’m not pointing that out in order to toot my own horn but to emphasize that unless some of the rest of you are also willing to take responsibility for their actions, rather than blaming everybody else for what’s wrong here, we’re all screwed. 

So let me go further: for the rest of my time in this forum, I pledge never again to call somebody a troll. I pledge never again to insult anyone personally, or attack anyone personally, or be intentionally rude to anyone here. I pledge never again to group people together such as “all Trump supporters think that” etc. I pledge never again to call anyone out. I will devote 100% of my posts here to the subject. 

If I break any of these promises then the mods can ban me permanently. There won’t be any aliases; I won’t come back. 

These pledges are fixed for me no matter what anyone else does; you guys can hold me to them. But is there anyone else here willing to make them? 

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53 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

This forum needs more laughs, in general it takes itself way too seriously.No one is solving problems here. 
imo 

I completely agree.  Part of that issue though is where the person is trying to get laughs from, ie who finds it funny. I find (and sometimes defended) many of your post funny in the way smack talking on the basketball court is.  We fell off the rails and I think you have me on ignore but I still feel that way.  Others can’t find or see the humor in your post style.  While the levity is needed around here for sure that line is different for everyone and hard to define

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Maybe we could just autocorrect the word "troll" to "person I disagree with"?  I feel like that would solve some issues.

 

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Just now, dkp993 said:

I completely agree.  Part of that issue though is where the person is trying to get laughs from, ie who finds it funny. I find (and sometimes defended) many of your post funny in the way smack talking on the basketball court is.  We fell off the rails and I think you have me on ignore but I still feel that way.  Others can’t find or see the humor in your post style.  While the levity is needed around here for sure that line is different for everyone and hard to define

Yeah, the tough line is trying to be playful without sounding like you're just flat out making fun of someone.  It often gets taken the wrong way when one tries to be light-hearted in this forum.

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4 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I acknowledge this.  I absolutely and completely try not to be, but I have certainly been hostile when I shouldn't have been.  I try to apologize later.  I've also been taken as hostile when I'm not trying to be, which is something that happens a lot in here, too.  Tone is difficult in typed words.

Heck, the conversation you and I have been having in here has been the subject of private messages sent to me to stop publicly attacking you, and I don't think I'm doing that now.  We should all be more charitable with each other's positions.

I hadn’t read this when I made my last post. Kudos to you. 

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

Maybe we could just autocorrect the word "troll" to "person I disagree with"?  I feel like that would solve some issues.

 

We could...but I don't think it would be accurate.  I think there is a big difference between the two.  But realize people will disagree with that.

 

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

We could...but I don't think it would be accurate.  I think there is a big difference between the two.  But realize people will disagree with that.

 

I think it's a square/rectangle issue.  Nobody calls someone they agree with completely a troll.

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8 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I acknowledge this.  I absolutely and completely try not to be, but I have certainly been hostile when I shouldn't have been.  I try to apologize later.  I've also been taken as hostile when I'm not trying to be, which is something that happens a lot in here, too.  Tone is difficult in typed words.

Heck, the conversation you and I have been having in here has been the subject of private messages sent to me to stop publicly attacking you, and I don't think I'm doing that now.  We should all be more charitable with each other's positions.

I agree, but solving world hunger may be a more attainable goal. Just too much hostility built up over years. And most of it is now personal so that is difficult to overcome

Edited by Da Guru

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6 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:
56 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I think Tim try to fairly capture the issue without really taking sides.  What would be nice if there was some acknowledgement that maybe there is too much hostility in here and we can do better. 

I acknowledge this.  I absolutely and completely try not to be, but I have certainly been hostile when I shouldn't have been.  I try to apologize later.  I've also been taken as hostile when I'm not trying to be, which is something that happens a lot in here, too.  Tone is difficult in typed words.

Heck, the conversation you and I have been having in here has been the subject of private messages sent to me to stop publicly attacking you, and I don'

If anyone questions there is a attacking mob mentality around here sometimes they are absolutely blind.  The dog pilling that can happen around here at times is way over the top.  Of this there is no question.  

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

I think it's a square/rectangle issue.  Nobody calls someone they agree with completely a troll.

True...I think it gets thrown around more obviously for people you disagree with than otherwise.  But its not just because of disagreeing is what Im trying to say.

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Just now, dkp993 said:

If anyone questions there is a attacking mob mentality around here sometimes they are absolutely blind.  The dog pilling that can happen around here at times is way over the top.  Of this there is no question.  

It's good that you're open to discussion.

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18 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

@Joe 8ryant
 

The shark move is to kill the PSF and I think you know it.  Nobody is going to miss this forum in a couple of weeks.  Mods are wasting time trying to moderate these slap fights when their tine should be spent on content for paying customers.  In the bar analogy, your waiters and bartenders are spending too much time on the “customers” sitting at the bar drinking water and eating free pretzels.  Additionally, how many warnings can you give about being excellent?  It’s not going to happen about politics.  

Just a week ago you made a well-intentioned post about being more excellent to each other.  Within two days many of the posters in here complaining about putting people on ignore and killing trolls were in the Trump thread objectifying Trump supporters based on a picture they found on the internet.  Your mods had to delete almost an entire page from the ONE Trump thread.

You have to know this forum is hurting your bottom line.  In the fantasy football community (also a key Trump demographic) your site now has a reputation of being anti-Trump.  This is largely due to the mob in the PSF.  

In my opinion, thr smart move is to get out of the politics business.  Most of the people in here begging you not to do this are a large part of the problem.  They aren’t going to stop their stereotyping, agitating, and condescension.  They can’t.  Kill it and let everyone argue about the best Star Wars movie in FFA  

Just my observation and two cents.

 

Are you saying it’s like a parent threatening a child with a punishment for bad behavior but never follows through. Eventually the little guy learns it’s just all talk, dad isn’t going to take away my Xbox 

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

True...I think it gets thrown around more obviously for people you disagree with than otherwise.  But its not just because of disagreeing is what Im trying to say.

I know.  But "even you don't really believe that, you're a liar trying to get a rise out of people" is basically what it means and it causes some pretty big issues.

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4 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

:thumbup:

Thanks for proving my point.  

 

1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

This forum needs more laughs, in general it takes itself way too seriously.No one is solving problems here. 
imo 

 

7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Yeah, the tough line is trying to be playful without sounding like you're just flat out making fun of someone.  It often gets taken the wrong way when one tries to be light-hearted in this forum.

This is a perfect example(likely, I could be wrong, which would also be a perfect example).  Imo @John Benderwas just playfully jabbing here, yet that’s not the way it was taken.....

Edited by dkp993

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2 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

:thumbup:

Thanks for proving my point.  

He fails to see the genius of your post in tagging @Joe 8ryant

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I thought I was. Sorry about that. 

What I was trying to say is that several of us have opposing views as to what is causing this problem- we even have opposing views as to who the “trolls” are (as witness @Ramblin Wreck‘s reaction.) We’re never going to convince each other about this stuff, and yet we need to resolve it because it’s threatening to end this forum. 

In looking back through these several pages since this thread started, I’m pretty sure I’m the only one here who has stated that some of the responsibility is mine, and I pledged to do better. I’m not pointing that out in order to toot my own horn but to emphasize that unless some of the rest of you are also willing to take responsibility for their actions, rather than blaming everybody else for what’s wrong here, we’re all screwed. 

So let me go further: for the rest of my time in this forum, I pledge never again to call somebody a troll. I pledge never again to insult anyone personally, or attack anyone personally, or be intentionally rude to anyone here. I pledge never again to group people together such as “all Trump supporters think that” etc. I pledge never again to call anyone out. I will devote 100% of my posts here to the subject. 

If I break any of these promises then the mods can ban me permanently. There won’t be any aliases; I won’t come back. 

These pledges are fixed for me no matter what anyone else does; you guys can hold me to them. But is there anyone else here willing to make them? 

This grandstanding, which we all know you won’t stick to because you simply can’t help yourself, is cute, but despite your vow last night to do better, your “most of the trolls are pro-Trump” comment (which might be true, but it’s irrelevant and saying it just causes more problems) just shows that you can’t help yourself. I know, I know, you’ll do better...until you don’t. And saying the mods can ban you otherwise is silly since you know that won’t happen, since I don’t see them starting a trend of holding different posters to different banking standards, especially in a sub forum that Joe has all but made clear he’s tired of. 

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3 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

 

 

This is a perfect example(likely, I could be wrong, which would also be a perfect example).  Imo bender was just playfully jabbing here, yet that’s not the way it was taken.....

Correct, was kinda to try and prove a point while not being insulting and was taken completely incorrectly. I know there's a fake Joe Bryant with an 8 instead of a B. It gave me a chuckle, it's just useless on some folks. Can we enjoy each other and not make everything into (this guy is a Republican/this guy is a Democrat?). I can, can you? Let's bump this place up in morale. I woulda laughed at myself had I made that loquacious post and quoted the wrong Joe Bryant. Christ on a corndog it's so combative here. In my post with directions as to how Joe could fix this forum I offered to ban myself first. 

Edited by John Bender

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Just now, dkp993 said:

 

 

This is a perfect example(likely, I could be wrong, which would also be a perfect example).  Imo bender was just playfully jabbing here, yet that’s not the way it was taken.....

KDs post to Bender was a playful jab right back . His original post was serious and humorous at the same time. I love the @Joe 8ryant gimmick

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Another thing I find cathartic is the "opps, my bad" posts when I screw up facts.  Yeah, those are met with some :pokey: but it's expected from those doing the :pokey:  so I just ignore it.  I can't fathom being a "I'm not the problem, you are" person...we all make mistakes.  Some of us choose to learn from them and attempt to change, others dig in and try and convince themselves they aren't part of the problem.  This sort of ties into my comment earlier about reading what the person actually wrote and stop twisting the words to fit a preconceived narrative.

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

This grandstanding, which we all know you won’t stick to because you simply can’t help yourself, is cute, but

Think about what thread you’re in.

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

KDs post to Bender was a playful jab right back . His original post was serious and humorous at the same time. I love the @Joe 8ryant gimmick

That post was way too serious to be a Joe 8ryant gimmick. Let's be real. 

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

This forum needs more laughs, in general it takes itself way too seriously.No one is solving problems here. 
imo 

All my likes

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2 minutes ago, John Bender said:

Correct, was kinda to try and prove a point while not being insulting and was taken incompletely correct. I know there's a fake Joe Bryant with an 8 instead of a B. It gave me a chuckle, it's just useless on some folks. 

Sorry

i thought you were being a tool.  I am blind in one eye so I can make a typo or two on my phone.  
 

It’s good. 

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1 minute ago, knowledge dropper said:

Sorry

i thought you were being a tool.  I am blind in one eye so I can make a typo or two on my phone.  
 

It’s good. 

Cheers mate (I looked for 3 minutes for that emote of sharing a beer to post here :lol: but I'm not good at knowing these new kid's emotes)

 

Also maybe let @HellToupee - he seemed to think it was shtick. 

Edited by John Bender
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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

KDs post to Bender was a playful jab right back . His original post was serious and humorous at the same time. I love the @Joe 8ryant gimmick

I would certainly hope so, but again kinda my point.  Without tone, body language, etc it’s really easy to misinterpret the written word.  That leads to some of the divide.  

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3 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

This grandstanding, which we all know you won’t stick to because you simply can’t help yourself, is cute, but despite your vow last night to do better, your “most of the trolls are pro-Trump” comment (which might be true, but it’s irrelevant and saying it just causes more problems) just shows that you can’t help yourself. I know, I know, you’ll do better...until you don’t. And saying the mods can ban you otherwise is silly since you know that won’t happen, since I don’t see them starting a trend of holding different posters to different banking standards, especially in a sub forum that Joe has all but made clear he’s tired of. 

Well tell you what @Ghost Rider, how about this? I won’t leave it up to the Mods then. I’ll leave it up to you. You and @Ramblin Wreck and my other biggest critics here. I have just made several pledges. If any of you guys feel like I have broken them at any time, say so and I will leave permanently. I’ll trust your judgment on this. 

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I for one enjoy the levity here on this page. Good people, on both sides, having a laugh. Forum is fine. As far as Joe's concerned, I offered a pretty reasonable answer pages back. He's historically obtuse with this stuff. It's not that hard and shouldn't cause him this much consternation. People are all fine for the most part with each other. I'd have a beer with almost anyone on this board in a second. Infact, 2 of my only IRL friends I met here are Trump guys and we've spent numerous nights at a bar doing trivia together and had a great time. 

Edited by John Bender
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20 minutes ago, John Bender said:

You can't even spell Joe Bryant correctly, you nudnick. 

Wow..you are proving Joe is correct.

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Just now, Summer Wheat said:

Wow..you are proving Joe is correct.

*sigh* (the original poster realized the mistake and didnt take offense, nor should you) We're good homey. 

Edited by John Bender

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well tell you what @Ghost Rider, how about this? I won’t leave it up to the Mods then. I’ll leave it up to you. You and @Ramblin Wreck and my other biggest critics here. I have just made several pledges. If any of you guys feel like I have broken them at any time, say so and I will leave permanently. I’ll trust your judgment on this. 

.

Edited by supermike80

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1 minute ago, John Bender said:

*sigh* (the original poster realized the mistake and didnt take offense, nor should you) We're good homey. 

I am good but that is the exact stuff JB is talking about.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

.

You too @supermike80. I’ll trust your judgment as well. I apologize that you took my earlier post the way you did; my fault for not making it more clear. If you feel that from this point forward I have broken any of my pledges I will leave. 

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