A plea for civility in the PSF. (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

 

[Capella]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

 

[timschochet]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

 

[jamny]

I don't think there is a deliberate attempt to shut it down and I enjoy the conversation when I do decide to chime in. Still learn a lot from other posters and never get bent out of shape because someone says something I might not agree with. If it bothers you here, step away.

 

[Capella]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Why does a fantasy football board need to have a toxic forum like this? The FFA is one thing but most people aren’t arguing there. They’re just discussing shows about elves or how to fix something.

This forum is just doing nothing but creating animosity and bad vibes. People posting in here really seem to dislike each other. Some guy that hates another because of Trump could be in the 49ers thread being friendly to each other figuring out which RB to draft.

Why does it need to exist? Reddit had 500,000 subs where people can go and get their confirmation bias. You have an incredible amount of posts here and I doubt you’ve ever changed one mind on anything. It’s hopeless.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I think about the two main threads on Covid, one in the FFA for discussion on the clinical side of it and personal experience, and then the one in PSF for the policy, political side, and thought that was a good example of the value of the PSF. Otherwise the FFA Covid thread would have been mixed. There's a political side to many current topics. To me the general policy of be cool or get a timeout isn't bad.

 

[timschochet]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Why does a fantasy football board need to have a toxic forum like this? The FFA is one thing but most people aren’t arguing there. They’re just discussing shows about elves or how to fix something.

This forum is just doing nothing but creating animosity and bad vibes. People posting in here really seem to dislike each other. Some guy that hates another because of Trump could be in the 49ers thread being friendly to each other figuring out which RB to draft.

Why does it need to exist? Reddit had 500,000 subs where people can go and get their confirmation bias. You have an incredible amount of posts here and I doubt you’ve ever changed one mine on anything. It’s hopeless.

Well I can’t speak for anyone else but for me personally last paragraph is key: I don’t want confirmation bias. I want to exchange ideas and debate with folks who disagree with me. As for changing minds I’m not sure, I know MY mind has been changed. On several issues.

Take the example you already mentioned: the student loan forgiveness. I came into that discussion believing that Biden had done a very good thing. Then @Snotbubbles, whom I disagree with on a majority of political issues, made the point that Biden did not have the legal authority to do what he did and was actually attempting to usurp power from the legislative branch. That was an angle I had not considered and it turned me around. I changed my mind on this question. And that’s why I really value these discussions. Even when I don’t change my mind, the back and forth usually provides me much better mental clarity. But again I can only speak for myself.

 

[timschochet]

I don't think there is a deliberate attempt to shut it down and I enjoy the conversation when I do decide to chime in. Still learn a lot from other posters and never get bent out of shape because someone says something I might not agree with. If it bothers you here, step away.

You’ve never been anything but civil and thoughtful and I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[jamny]

I don't think there is a deliberate attempt to shut it down and I enjoy the conversation when I do decide to chime in. Still learn a lot from other posters and never get bent out of shape because someone says something I might not agree with. If it bothers you here, step away.

You’ve never been anything but civil and thoughtful and I always enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks Tim. You take a ton of heat but the boards have always been better with your contributions.
:brohug:

 

[jon_mx]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Good discussion? Are you kidding. Everytime I post my viewpoint in this forum, over 95 percent of the responses from the other side are..

1. A laughing emoji
2. A declaration that I am wrong....with no explanation what do ever.
3. A blanket dismissal of me as a person (most common response).
4. Some snarky comment mocking my point by grossly misrepresenting what I say.
5. Or being called a whiner for demanding all people get treated fairly.

I about fall off my chair on the extremely rare occasion there is actually an intelligent response. That is a fact. An intelligent response is by far the most shocking response I see.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted.

And if you have trouble ignoring it manually, use the built-in software feature on this board to ignore it automatically.

You can still expose yourself to the full gamut of substantive views on this board if you ignore the 10%-20% of posters most likely to start or join slap fights. They're generally not adding substance anyway.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted.

And if you have trouble ignoring it manually, use the built-in software feature on this board to ignore it automatically.

You can still expose yourself to the full gamut of substantive views on this board if you ignore the 10%-20% of posters most likely to start or join slap fights. They're generally not adding substance anyway.

Seriously. New board ignore function is perfect. Use it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

I know the last couple posts said as much, but use the damn ignore function people.

It works like a charm now, but for some reason I haven't figured out, since the reboot there is still the same people having still the same tired beefs in every thread, that yes - will probably get this place shut down. People I actually like reading posts by are on ignore because they just can't seem to stop having the same conversations with the usual suspects that have nothing to do with topics, and everything to do with schoolyard beefs and past history. IMO at this point the blame is more on the people not using the function as asked and are choosing to engage in all this.

Also, hint: the fact that you are starting up this thread means that what they are trying to do is working. Get under people's skin and get them to say something dumb so it's reported and you get a TO. Same as day 1...

 

[Mitchie]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Why does a fantasy football board need to have a toxic forum like this? The FFA is one thing but most people aren’t arguing there. They’re just discussing shows about elves or how to fix something.

This forum is just doing nothing but creating animosity and bad vibes. People posting in here really seem to dislike each other. Some guy that hates another because of Trump could be in the 49ers thread being friendly to each other figuring out which RB to draft.

Why does it need to exist? Reddit had 500,000 subs where people can go and get their confirmation bias. You have an incredible amount of posts here and I doubt you’ve ever changed one mine on anything. It’s hopeless.

You know nobody's forcing you to read and/or post, just ignore it if you don't like it.

 

[BladeRunner]

The ignore function certainly does work like a champ. Much better on this forum.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

 

[Mitchie]

I really don't think anyone is trying to get the forum shut down. Some issues just are inherently inflammatory. People post things deliberately to get a rise out of the other side vs. trying to make a point but that's the nature of social media.

 

[djmich]

This place could be much better, but it can’t. The thoughtful people are driven away, the loudest, angriest and most idle dominate the discussion. A microcosm for society today.

 

[Sabertooth]

With me, Gobirds and Stealthycat kindgot my goat with the laugh emojis so I just started responding in kind. Petty? sure. Am I proud of it, not really. I’ll be better.

 

[moleculo]

Is this forum representative of where we are as a nation? The hostility, the incessant bickering, the exaggerations, the lack of respect?

I want to say no because my day-to-day interactions aren't like this. But at the same time, I see "lets go Brandon" flags and "F Trump" bumper stickers and I wonder.

 

[Juxtatarot]

The forum is currently worse than ever. We’ve lost a lot of the better posters and the ugliness is rampant in several threads. For it to improve, moderation efforts would have to ramp up again but that’s a lot of time and effort for the staff for no financial/business benefit. Relying on posters to police themselves has failed time and time again.

Shutting it down is the right decision.

 

[moleculo]

The forum is currently worse than ever. We’ve lost a lot of the better posters and the ugliness is rampant in several threads. For it to improve, moderation efforts would have to ramp up again but that’s a lot of time and effort for the staff for no financial/business benefit. Relying on posters to police themselves has failed time and time again.

Shutting it down is the right decision.

Shutting it down means politics will bleed into the FFA.

 

[Juxtatarot]

The forum is currently worse than ever. We’ve lost a lot of the better posters and the ugliness is rampant in several threads. For it to improve, moderation efforts would have to ramp up again but that’s a lot of time and effort for the staff for no financial/business benefit. Relying on posters to police themselves has failed time and time again.

Shutting it down is the right decision.

Shutting it down means politics will bleed into the FFA.

Yes, but I’m assuming the issues will be less frequent and moderating them will be easier. Maybe not, though. Maybe the ugliness will cause the death of the FFA as well in due time. It seems to be dying anyway with more posters leaving than new people participating.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Shutting it down means politics will bleed into the FFA.

That's a real concern. The FFA understandably sees how toxic this forum is and wants no part of it there. I agree. It would have to be a strict thing where anyone posting political stuff in the FFA was banned.

We'd ask the FFA regulars to report anything they see as PSF content.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yes, but I’m assuming the issues will be less frequent and moderating them will be easier. Maybe not, though. Maybe the ugliness will cause the death of the FFA as well in due time. It seems to be dying anyway with more posters leaving than new people participating.

It would be much easier.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Why do you keep saying "attempts" to shut down? Nobody is doing anything different than day 1. JB moved this forum because it was ruining the other forums. Even then it still has gotten worse. As far as the arguments you should look in the mirror Tim. Always saying "how wrong" other points of view are not good conversation. Much of the discord here comes from your posts.

Capella post is correct

 

[Joe Bryant]

And not to say there hasn't been some good in the PSF. Of course, there has.

It's super easy to be in bubbles. I get mocked for my conservative friends, and some of the PMs on them are ugly, but I think talking about them has been a good thing. I believe it was @fatguyinalittlecoat who mentioned not really knowing many people in real life who were Evangelical Christians. And plenty of other things like that. There has definitely been some good discussion and people have seen other sides of things. Or that not everyone fits the stereotype. So that's good.

On balance though, it's pretty toxic.

 

[Juxtatarot]

With the new board upgrade, the number of “viewers” feature has been interesting. The political forum often has a thread with more current viewers than any thread in the Shark Pool or FFA. This one is currently #1 as I type this.

 

[rustycolts]

I quit watching any msm because of how terrible it had become. I mean it really started to get to me. I've really never had a depressed day in my life but had really started feeling maybe I was starting to suffer from depression. It's a terrible disease my wife has had it her whole life.

After I stopped watching the News I noticed my attitude got much better. Yet I kept coming back to the PSF. The same reason I quit watching the news was prevalent here. It started making me feel the same way and yet I kept coming back. I guess it's like a Train wreck I just couldn't look away.

When the forum transitioned to the new board I didn't miss the psf at all. I read 3 books it was great. Reread Alas Babylon it was required reading at school in Central Florida when I was a boy. Great read.

Anyway I don't think I would miss this sub forum at all.

 

[Dickies]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

For me it’s less about moving people off of positions and more about learning about certain topics from some of the more informed/interesting posters.

 

[djmich]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

As far as the arguments you should look in the mirror Tim. Always saying "how wrong" other points of view are not good conversation. Much of the discord here comes from your posts.

Truth. And makes the opening post particularly ironic.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Is this forum representative of where we are as a nation? The hostility, the incessant bickering, the exaggerations, the lack of respect?

I want to say no because my day-to-day interactions aren't like this. But at the same time, I see "lets go Brandon" flags and "F Trump" bumper stickers and I wonder.

When you look at it there are only about 20-30 regulars here as many have left or just go the the FFA and SP. That small amount breeds more hostility and people are just bickering back and forth with the same people every day. I wish it was different but it is not.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

I think one thing to consider is this: look at all the members in the last few years who have been temp-banned (or even perm-banned). I would bet money that most of them are from posts/activity in this subforum, not anywhere else. That is quite telling. I also wonder of all reported posts, what is the percentage of those in the Politics Forum vs not? Now, this is not be arguing to shut this subforum down, but it just seems like you and your team would have a lot less work and far less headaches without it. Props to you for dealing with it as long as you have, but when is enough really enough?

 

[Juxtatarot]

It didn’t take long for the toxicity to start in this thread. Shut it down.

 

[Capella]

I quit watching any msm because of how terrible it had become. I mean it really started to get to me. I've really never had a depressed day in my life but had really started feeling maybe I was starting to suffer from depression. It's a terrible disease my wife has had it her whole life.

After I stopped watching the News I noticed my attitude got much better. Yet I kept coming back to the PSF. The same reason I quit watching the news was prevalent here. It started making me feel the same way and yet I kept coming back. I guess it's like a Train wreck I just couldn't look away.

When the forum transitioned to the new board I didn't miss the psf at all. I read 3 books it was great. Reread Alas Babylon it was required reading at school in Central Florida when I was a boy. Great read.

Anyway I don't think I would miss this sub forum at all.

Fully convinced the world would be better off if social media never existed. It is a hell we put on ourselves as a people.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

 

[Warblenager]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

 

[quick-hands]

I like the PSF. I have no problem with the toxicity. politics is and always has been about toxic discussions.

enabling toxicity? no, the PSF is a place for intense heated big boy conversations. do people talk past each other? sure, but so what.

I think timschochets comment about being turned around on a topic is apt. it happens to me couple times a year on the psf. it's part of thinking. I think the psf helps me think and understand my positions better.

my sister taught me long ago that you can't change anybody mind so I don't bother. but when I see I'm wrong I change mine. shut down the psf? no.

I think the people who have left are free to leave. what's the big deal?

 

[Warblenager]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

As Tim pointed out in the OP, if you feel that way about his posts, you can just ignore him. That's the point he's making. I've never seen him use some of the ugly language others have. We can all have our POV without the ugliness.

 

[Warblenager]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Why do you keep saying "attempts" to shut down? Nobody is doing anything different than day 1. JB moved this forum because it was ruining the other forums. Even then it still has gotten worse. As far as the arguments you should look in the mirror Tim. Always saying "how wrong" other points of view are not good conversation. Much of the discord here comes from your posts.

Capella post is correct

Very true, the narrative he attempts to create with that post is interesting to say the least. Pretending this forum is anything but toxic is funny. It’s for posters like Tim to hear what they want to hear all day making them think they are right in a way they can’t in the outside world. He even forced a suspension of a poster he wanted out this week. Of course he wants this to continue, where else will that be allowed.

This forum was created to comfort the side that couldn’t handle Trump winning and an election not going their way. We are approaching more elections that won’t be going the way of those posters……so we are to believe their response will be better this time around? Look back at the last few days threads, still obsessing over Trump. Not healthy.

IMO this is how we all get sidetracked into an avenue that will have no cross streets to continue going forward. It just presents a dead end.

 

[GoBirds]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Why do you keep saying "attempts" to shut down? Nobody is doing anything different than day 1. JB moved this forum because it was ruining the other forums. Even then it still has gotten worse. As far as the arguments you should look in the mirror Tim. Always saying "how wrong" other points of view are not good conversation. Much of the discord here comes from your posts.

Capella post is correct

Very true, the narrative he attempts to create with that post is interesting to say the least. Pretending this forum is anything but toxic is funny. It’s for posters like Tim to hear what they want to hear all day making them think they are right in a way they can’t in the outside world. He even forced a suspension of a poster he wanted out this week. Of course he wants this to continue, where else will that be allowed.

This forum was created to comfort the side that couldn’t handle Trump winning and an election not going their way. We are approaching more elections that won’t be going the way of those posters……so we are to believe their response will be better this time around? Look back at the last few days threads, still obsessing over Trump. Not healthy.

IMO this is how we all get sidetracked into an avenue that will have no cross streets to continue going forward. It just presents a dead end.

Respect your opinion friend, I was just taking a step back and calling it best I can. Hope you are right but look at where we are at already.

 

[The Dude]

Is this forum representative of where we are as a nation? The hostility, the incessant bickering, the exaggerations, the lack of respect?

I want to say no because my day-to-day interactions aren't like this. But at the same time, I see "lets go Brandon" flags and "F Trump" bumper stickers and I wonder.

There are so many posters in here that are mentally incapable of debate - whether it's being challenged to support their own beliefs or challenged by opposing beliefs. They skip the part that would be beneficial - the exchange of ideas - and instead they stick their head in the sand and revert to square one of embracing their beliefs.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse

of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

As Tim pointed out in the OP, if you feel that way about his posts, you can just ignore him. That's the point he's making. I've never seen him use some of the ugly language others have. We can all have our POV without the ugliness.

I've seen Tim treat several posters, including myself, very poorly.

By the way, who is your main account?

 

[BladeRunner]

I quit watching any msm because of how terrible it had become. I mean it really started to get to me. I've really never had a depressed day in my life but had really started feeling maybe I was starting to suffer from depression. It's a terrible disease my wife has had it her whole life.

After I stopped watching the News I noticed my attitude got much better. Yet I kept coming back to the PSF. The same reason I quit watching the news was prevalent here. It started making me feel the same way and yet I kept coming back. I guess it's like a Train wreck I just couldn't look away.

When the forum transitioned to the new board I didn't miss the psf at all. I read 3 books it was great. Reread Alas Babylon it was required reading at school in Central Florida when I was a boy. Great read.

Anyway I don't think I would miss this sub forum at all.

Fully convinced the world would be better off if social media never existed. It is a hell we put on ourselves as a people.

I agree 1000000000000%. Social Media is a cancer upon us all. Not only has it created a generation of shallow, self-centered and entitled people, but also given a platform for ugliness. Was the ugliness always there? Yes, probably, but at least it was confined and limited to a small number of people.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

I'm glad to see you're coming around on this. I know your heart is in the right place, but that's exactly what this subforum is doing. The world will be a better place without it.

 

[HellToupee]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

you joined in August

 

[GoBirds]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

you joined in August

What are you trying to say, that he couldn’t have reviewed all Tim’s content to see where he’s coming from in……a few weeks time?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

Agreed.

And I won't speak for anyone else, but I rarely get the urge to try and have serious conversations anymore in this subforum. There is no point because most do not want a balanced debate or conversation. They want an echo chamber and to pound away at those with whom they disagree. Sadly, it feels like most people nowadays do not have an open mind when it comes to topics discussed here. Their mind is made up, and that's that.

"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." -Frank Zappa

 

[Warblenager]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

Agreed.

And I won't speak for anyone else, but I rarely get the urge to try and have serious conversations anymore in this subforum. There is no point because most do not want a balanced debate or conversation. They want an echo chamber and to pound away at those with whom they disagree. Sadly, it feels like most people nowadays do not have an open mind when it comes to topics discussed here. Their mind is made up, and that's that.

"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." -Frank Zappa

Excellent Zappa quote. Mudshark baby. Editing to point out the Mudshark comment is from a song and not a derogatory comment.

 

[GoBirds]

Nobody is intentionally trying to shut down anything. The same person starts a thread just like this every time Joe says he's close to shutting it down and accuses the same people of intentionally trying to do it. It's a microcosm of the problem with every thread here. Point fingers, accuse someone of a position they don't hold, and then bicker back and forth including mocking the other side relentlessly. Ironic thing is Tim is one of the most guilty posters of all of it and jumps into every conversation and overtakes it with volume just repeating himself over and over and over and over.

Agreed.

And I won't speak for anyone else, but I rarely get the urge to try and have serious conversations anymore in this subforum. There is no point because most do not want a balanced debate or conversation. They want an echo chamber and to pound away at those with whom they disagree. Sadly, it feels like most people nowadays do not have an open mind when it comes to topics discussed here. Their mind is made up, and that's that.

"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." -Frank Zappa

You said it perfectly. Dead on .