A plea for civility in the PSF. (1 Viewer)

[whoknew]

I don't really have an opinion on whether this board should be shut down. I just think the toxicity is inevitable. Its representative of our society. Most people suck. And if given the opportunity to be a jerk - especially anonymously with little to know reprecustions - he or she will take it.

But I certainly understand if Joe doesn't want to own one of the many town squares where it will happen.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Good discussion? Are you kidding. Everytime I post my viewpoint in this forum, over 95 percent of the responses from the other side are..

1. A laughing emoji
2. A declaration that I am wrong....with no explanation what do ever.
3. A blanket dismissal of me as a person (most common response).
4. Some snarky comment mocking my point by grossly misrepresenting what I say.
5. Or being called a whiner for demanding all people get treated fairly.

I about fall off my chair on the extremely rare occasion there is actually an intelligent response. That is a fact. An intelligent response is by far the most shocking response I see.

The thing that bothers me most is when people attack a source instead of the content. If you're not going to discuss the content, just move on.

 

[Rubiobot]

I quit watching any msm because of how terrible it had become. I mean it really started to get to me. I've really never had a depressed day in my life but had really started feeling maybe I was starting to suffer from depression. It's a terrible disease my wife has had it her whole life.

After I stopped watching the News I noticed my attitude got much better. Yet I kept coming back to the PSF. The same reason I quit watching the news was prevalent here. It started making me feel the same way and yet I kept coming back. I guess it's like a Train wreck I just couldn't look away.

When the forum transitioned to the new board I didn't miss the psf at all. I read 3 books it was great. Reread Alas Babylon it was required reading at school in Central Florida when I was a boy. Great read.

Anyway I don't think I would miss this sub forum at all.

Fully convinced the world would be better off if social media never existed. It is a hell we put on ourselves as a people.

I agree 1000000000000%. Social Media is a cancer upon us all. Not only has it created a generation of shallow, self-centered and entitled people, but also given a platform for ugliness. Was the ugliness always there? Yes, probably, but at least it was confined and limited to a small number of people.

This post is spot on.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

I spend 90% of my time in this forum. It keeps me entertained. As someone else said, if you don't want to participate don't.

 

[(HULK)]

I have 2 policy positions that have shifted a bit during the past several months, as a result of both external happenings and this forum. On abortion and on gun control. This forum and it's diverse ideas were not really the cause of the moves, but it definitely helped me stick the landing and not overcorrect in reaction to the external events. It would be a shame to lose that.

 

[Captain Cranks]

IF this board is allowed to continue its existence, there needs to be a no tolerance policy for ad hominem attacks. This is the iron fist with which r/debatereligion rules and it seems to keep things pretty civil.

 

[Rubiobot]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

you joined in August

What are you trying to say, that he couldn’t have reviewed all Tim’s content to see where he’s coming from in……a few weeks time?

I am going to challenge myself to stop making posts like this. I have done it too many times and it is part of the problem. Posts like the one I quoted do not add anything positive to the PSF. I have done it myself so I'm not just picking on @GoBirds , I'm picking on myself.

I'd like to challenge everyone to do the same.

 

[The General]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

I spend 90% of my time in this forum. It keeps me entertained. As someone else said, if you don't want to participate don't.

Yep.

Take some jokes, give some jokes, know the audience, give your opinion, know that is all that it is in many cases.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

I spend 90% of my time in this forum. It keeps me entertained. As someone else said, if you don't want to participate don't.

Yep.

Take some jokes, give some jokes, know the audience, give your opinion, know that is all that it is in many cases.

Yeah, I don't take it personally. I state my position. In some cases I defend it well, in others I don't. I don't get mad. I don't take it personally. If certain posters continually add nothing to the discussion I put them on ignore so they don't dilute my enjoyment. Pretty simple process. But I really enjoy the SCOTUS thread.

 

[GoBirds]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

you joined in August

What are you trying to say, that he couldn’t have reviewed all Tim’s content to see where he’s coming from in……a few weeks time?

I am going to challenge myself to stop making posts like this. I have done it too many times and it is part of the problem. Posts like the one I quoted do not add anything positive to the PSF. I have done it myself so I'm not just picking on @GoBirds , I'm picking on myself.

I'd like to challenge everyone to do the same.

Sorry man obvious multiple alias accounts allowed for some deserved to be called out.

Sorry it’s just like groundhogs day, the minority here like myself are the issue of course but you also are a changed man now and will do better too. Got it. This time it’s for real.

 

[kwille]

Some folks like trading opinions. Some just like to fight. There are tools in place to handle the later. We should use them.

 

[timschochet]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point? You’re fooling yourself saying there is great discussion here, it’s kind of a hellhole.

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I lean way more toward how @Capella is seeing it than @timschochet on this.

I also think it's pretty telling that the immediate response to opposing thought or being called on what one's saying is somehow the "other" side is intentionally trying to shut down the forum. And not simply disagreeing.

We've reached a point where we all seem so certain of our takes that disagreement must mean the other side is actually trying to do something else. And that just feels pretty gross.

The PSF has always been as Capella said a "grease trap" to try and keep the FFA good. I put a high value on the FFA. I put very low value on the PSF as it's become the same toxic discussions on repeat with the same people taking the same snarky shots at each other. It's worked for a good while but I'm leaning towards it's simply just too far gone now.

I have to be honest in saying I loved the PSF being offline when we made the board transition.

I used to think it was ok to let everyone take their shots at each other in this forum and be ugly to each other. Now I'm starting to think I'm actually enabling toxicity.

And for the people who send me the creepy private messages whenever I post something like this, save yourself the time. I'm over those too.

I'll try to sort soon.

Good morning Joe. I’m sorry you feel this way but I’m not surprised you do. From your quite reasonable perspective it would make more sense to shut the PSF down. Obviously I hope you don’t but that’s from a selfish perspective.

If you do shut it down, I promise you that I won’t participate in political discussions bleeding into the FFA.

 

[timschochet]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

As far as the arguments you should look in the mirror Tim. Always saying "how wrong" other points of view are not good conversation. Much of the discord here comes from your posts.

Truth. And makes the opening post particularly ironic.

In the OP I took my share of responsibility for what’s happening. So I don’t think it’s ironic. I didn’t name the posters who I think are MOST responsible and I’m not going to do so. For whatever time this forum has left, there will be no more personal attacks by me. Nor will I respond to any personal attacks made against me. Nor will I respond to political posts which I regard as particularly vitriolic, trolling or ugly.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I am going to challenge myself to stop making posts like this. I have done it too many times and it is part of the problem. Posts like the one I quoted do not add anything positive to the PSF. I have done it myself so I'm not just picking on @GoBirds , I'm picking on myself.

I'd like to challenge everyone to do the same.

Thank you. If we could do more of that and less of the assuming people who disagree have some nefarious ulterior motives, we might have a chance.

It's been my experience unfortunately though that most folks don't see it like you here though. At least not for very long.

 

[Joe Bryant]

IF this board is allowed to continue its existence, there needs to be a no tolerance policy for ad hominem attacks. This is the iron fist with which r/debatereligion rules and it seems to keep things pretty civil.

I don't disagree @Captain Cranks but that never works out in reality. People complain they are treated unfairly while others get away and I wind up with more creepy PMs than I already get.

If there's one consistent theme since day one, it's "I'm treated unfairly but THEY get away with everything".

 

[HellToupee]

I understand Tim's frustration but don't believe it's a concerted effort to get it shut down. I DO believe however that there are a FEW who purposely "troll" for whatever "twisted sense of control over others" that they desire. I know when I see it, sometimes I do respond in kind. I know I'll be trying to be better (as others up-thread have said)

you joined in August

What are you trying to say, that he couldn’t have reviewed all Tim’s content to see where he’s coming from in……a few weeks time?

I am going to challenge myself to stop making posts like this. I have done it too many times and it is part of the problem. Posts like the one I quoted do not add anything positive to the PSF. I have done it myself so I'm not just picking on @GoBirds , I'm picking on myself.

I'd like to challenge everyone to do the same.

Sorry man obvious multiple alias accounts allowed for some deserved to be called out.

Sorry it’s just like groundhogs day, the minority here like myself are the issue of course but you also are a changed man now and will do better too. Got it. This time it’s for real.

I’ts absolutely amazing. They can’t help themselves

 

[jon_mx]

Politics has and will always be toxic.
But an ideology that declares a certain race oppressors, imho, has no place in any civil society. I will never understand how this has taken over a political party.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

There’s a variety of viewpoints expressed in this forum. I find that valuable. It would be great if people could avoid attacking other people. I know that’s not always easy, but we could continue to share viewpoints that way. At the essence it seems like that’s what’s being requested here.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I've used this analogy before but this forum, but this country/forum needs marriage counseling to learn how to communicate again. Just like you can't constantly ridicule your partner or deflect every time they bring up a point you don't like, we can't have a functioning relationship if we don't learn how to listen and understand where the other side is coming from. That's a tall task to ask a bunch of randos to commit to on a message board, but until our communication issues are addressed, we should expect more of the same.

 

[HellToupee]

https://twitter.com/triggerpod/status/1566018114797674496?s=21&t=6S_ZM7r6D9DK310F86ivDg I agree with Bill Burr’s take this week on the trigger pod. It’s not toxic in real life

 

[moleculo]

1. Ignore function should be used more and more. I personally don't like putting people on ignore because I want to hear different viewpoints but some people truly don't bring anything to the table. If someone is consistently neither witty nor insightful, ignore is appropriate.

2. This sucks for admin, but there truly should be more suspensions. The PSF was supposed to be a low-tolerance endeavor but it seems like that slipped. I get it - moderation is a thankless job with no return to the business. I don't know what the answer is. I mean, we practically need more mods than posters, and that kind of sucks.

 

[(HULK)]

This is literally the only place I regularly discuss political issues, would be sad to see it go.

These are very divisive times. The current climate in this forum is a reflection of that. They will always be issues that people will have strong opinions on, but lately the core ideas of the country seem to be under dispute. It might persist like this for a couple more years too. In the long run I'm sure it will settle back down, no one likes being agitated 24/7.

 

[Cheen]

The PSF exists because as someone mentioned earlier, it drives users to footballguys.com. This website is a business above all else. Shoot, even the owners participate in PSF. It ain't going anywhere.

 

[Juxtatarot]

IF this board is allowed to continue its existence, there needs to be a no tolerance policy for ad hominem attacks. This is the iron fist with which r/debatereligion rules and it seems to keep things pretty civil.

Yes, the moderation policy to allow it until it goes “over the line” was doomed to fail. A lot of “just below the line” gets ugly quick.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

People complain they are treated unfairly while others get away and I wind up with more creepy PMs than I already get.

Sorry Joe. I never knew you had to deal with all the PM's.

Maybe if a poster's first inclination would be to hit the ignore before they hit the report, life would be a lot easier for you.

 

[Da Guru]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Is there really good discussion here? I’ve spent more time here in the last 10 days than I have in the last 4-5 years (the student loan thing was super interesting to me) and it seems to me that everybody dislikes everybody and nobody will ever come off their position. What’s the point?

I used to think Joe should keep the politics forum here as a ‘grease trap’ to keep it out of the ffa, and even said so a month ago, but I think he should just ban all political threads from the board and be done with it. Maybe have one for the big election every two years or whatever for a week before and week after or whatever. It’s super toxic.

I get what you’re saying. Yes the past two weeks or so have been especially divisive. But even so there has been some good discussion. Amd most people are still reasonable.

Why does a fantasy football board need to have a toxic forum like this? The FFA is one thing but most people aren’t arguing there. They’re just discussing shows about elves or how to fix something.

This forum is just doing nothing but creating animosity and bad vibes. People posting in here really seem to dislike each other. Some guy that hates another because of Trump could be in the 49ers thread being friendly to each other figuring out which RB to draft.

Why does it need to exist? Reddit had 500,000 subs where people can go and get their confirmation bias. You have an incredible amount of posts here and I doubt you’ve ever changed one mind on anything. It’s hopeless.

Holy smoke Cappy and I agree twice in two days. This is spot on. 1000% agree with you GB.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Is this forum representative of where we are as a nation? The hostility, the incessant bickering, the exaggerations, the lack of respect?

I want to say no because my day-to-day interactions aren't like this. But at the same time, I see "lets go Brandon" flags and "F Trump" bumper stickers and I wonder.

Yes, I think it is. IMO SM and online behavior is similar to drinking. People try to blame it on the booze, but I think what comes out it what you are like - it just gives you the "courage" to behave that way. Similar to SM - the anonymity and being able to talk to people without major consequences gives people a similar feeling.

This is a reason that I don't 100% buy into the "I could sit down and have a drink with anybody in here". Yeah, that might be true to a point, but if you a somebody who can't hold conversations, spend more of your time online whatabouting and slapfighting, I have a feeling that would come out IRL too.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also, I don't believe there is a focused effort to shut down the PSF, but I do believe there 100% is effort to annoy other posters and get them booted. Mostly by people who don't try to actually talk about things, so of course there is no reason for them to care if the PSF goes away as a result.

 

[General Malaise]

I would have shut this cess pool down years ago. All it's accomplished is bringing out the worst in all of us. It has made guys that would probably get along fine at a bar dislike one another.

 

[Da Guru]

I would have shut this cess pool down years ago. All it's accomplished is bringing out the worst in all of us. It has made guys that would probably get along fine at a bar dislike one another.

That is a fact.

 

[timschochet]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yes, the moderation policy to allow it until it goes “over the line” was doomed to fail. A lot of “just below the line” gets ugly quick

I hear you @Juxtatarot But that's inherent problem. There is always some sort of "line". And lots of people are really great at staying right under it. Accomplishing the same thing in insulting the other side or poster, but just barely below the line to where they could make a plausible "what did I do " face if they get called on it.

 

[Da Guru]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

What would be the Reason that some people want it shut down in your opinion?

Provocative posts, the snark and trolling here have no party affiliation. All sides do it.

 

[dkp993]

I like the PSF. I have no problem with the toxicity. politics is and always has been about toxic discussions.

enabling toxicity? no, the PSF is a place for intense heated big boy conversations. do people talk past each other? sure, but so what.

I think timschochets comment about being turned around on a topic is apt. it happens to me couple times a year on the psf. it's part of thinking. I think the psf helps me think and understand my positions better.

my sister taught me long ago that you can't change anybody mind so I don't bother. but when I see I'm wrong I change mine. shut down the psf? no.

I think the people who have left are free to leave. what's the big deal?

This is pretty much spot on to how I feel. This place can get a little spicy and times as it has here recently but politics will do that. I don’t really get how a forum could effect one’s attitude in life but I acknowledge everyone is different and effected by different things.

As spicy as it can get sometimes I’d hate to see it go. I’ve learned a lot here over the years from some very smart people who see things differently then I do. That’s rare on the internet imo. I also understand I’m not the one who has to pay the price this place tolls like Joe and the Mods do.

I hope it sticks around.

 

[timschochet]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

What would be the Reason that some people want it shut down in your opinion?

Provocative posts, the snark and trolling here have no party affiliation. All sides do it.

I didn’t say it did. I haven’t made any accusations based on party affiliation.

 

[Rubiobot]

Also, I don't believe there is a focused effort to shut down the PSF, but I do believe there 100% is effort to annoy other posters and get them booted. Mostly by people who don't try to actually talk about things, so of course there is no reason for them to care if the PSF goes away as a result.

I think Tim is the biggest target of this. That's why he thinks they want to shut down the PSF when they really want to shut down him.

 

[timschochet]

Also, I don't believe there is a focused effort to shut down the PSF, but I do believe there 100% is effort to annoy other posters and get them booted. Mostly by people who don't try to actually talk about things, so of course there is no reason for them to care if the PSF goes away as a result.

I think Tim is the biggest target of this. That's why he thinks they want to shut down the PSF when they really want to shut down him.

I’ve been a big target but I’m certainly not the only one. And I’m not a victim.

 

[Da Guru]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

What would be the Reason that some people want it shut down in your opinion?

Provocative posts, the snark and trolling here have no party affiliation. All sides do it.

I didn’t say it did. I haven’t made any accusations based on party affiliation.

You stated people want it shut down. Who? I mean besides Joe

 

[dkp993]

This is literally the only place I regularly discuss political issues, would be sad to see it go.

These are very divisive times. The current climate in this forum is a reflection of that. They will always be issues that people will have strong opinions on, but lately the core ideas of the country seem to be under dispute. It might persist like this for a couple more years too. In the long run I'm sure it will settle back down, no one likes being agitated 24/7.

Agree 100% and your first sentence is exactly the same for me.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I hear you @Juxtatarot But that's inherent problem. There is always some sort of "line". And lots of people are really great at staying right under it. Accomplishing the same thing in insulting the other side or poster, but just barely below the line to where they could make a plausible "what did I do " face if they get called on it.

Do you think moderation can hurt your business, Joe? The way I see it, assuming business isn't a factor, people complaining about moderation is 'whatever', especially if everyone's made fully aware that there's a zero tolerance policy and you'll likely feel a suspension was unfair. Of course, that premise goes out the window if it's going to hurt your business too.

 

[BladeRunner]

Also, I don't believe there is a focused effort to shut down the PSF, but I do believe there 100% is effort to annoy other posters and get them booted. Mostly by people who don't try to actually talk about things, so of course there is no reason for them to care if the PSF goes away as a result.

I think Tim is the biggest target of this. That's why he thinks they want to shut down the PSF when they really want to shut down him.

Once again, it becomes about Tim.

Okay, now you're exaggerating here. Tim isn't that important in anybody's lives except his family's. Let's stop trying to martyr Tim. Even he doesn't want that.

 

[GoBirds]

Also, I don't believe there is a focused effort to shut down the PSF, but I do believe there 100% is effort to annoy other posters and get them booted. Mostly by people who don't try to actually talk about things, so of course there is no reason for them to care if the PSF goes away as a result.

I think Tim is the biggest target of this. That's why he thinks they want to shut down the PSF when they really want to shut down him.

Once again, it becomes about Tim.

Okay, now you're exaggerating here. Tim isn't that important in anybody's lives except his family's. Let's stop trying to martyr Tim. Even he doesn't want that.

A lot of victim cards getting thrown on the table.

 

[timschochet]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

What would be the Reason that some people want it shut down in your opinion?

Provocative posts, the snark and trolling here have no party affiliation. All sides do it.

I didn’t say it did. I haven’t made any accusations based on party affiliation.

You stated people want it shut down. Who? I mean besides Joe

It wouldn’t serve any good purpose to name any one. So no thanks.

 

[Max Power]

I'd be disappointed to see this place go because of all the time we've all spent here, but I don't see the direction of this forum trending in the right direction.

This is not so different from the direction of the country. Politicians, media, and celebrities have lost some part of their decency. We've lost it here as well.

I posted way too emotionally since Biden's speech and while I've calmed, It just feels like we're in too deep. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

This was a good weekend to step away and regain some sanity. Enjoy being outside with friends and family is always great.

Wish you all the best. I think we are in for some tough times ahead. We either hit rock bottom and bounce back or we don't.

 

[Da Guru]

I believe there is a deliberate attempt to get the PSF shut down. There are certain people here who deliberately post very ugly things in order to get other people to call them out. Then ugliness ensues on both sides and there are so many reports to the moderators that eventually they are going to get frustrated and end the whole thing- which was the plan all along.

The thing to do is when somebody posts something truly ugly is just ignore it. Pretend it was never posted. I have been one of the guiltiest people here about not being able to do this; whenever someone writes something hateful I
often respond angrily and attack them. It’s what they want. I won’t do it any more.

This has been a wonderful place for reasonable discussion and debate. Most people here are decent and good and willing to engage in a civil manner, and that includes folks of every political persuasion. Let’s not let a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us- please?

Don`t understand. Are you talking about FBGs attempt to shut down the PSF?

I probably overstated it in the OP. Let’s just say there are people who wouldn’t mind if this place shut down and don’t mind being provocative, even trolling, because they don’t mind what the result might be.

ETA: what @KarmaPolice wrote.

What would be the Reason that some people want it shut down in your opinion?

Provocative posts, the snark and trolling here have no party affiliation. All sides do it.

I didn’t say it did. I haven’t made any accusations based on party affiliation.

You stated people want it shut down. Who? I mean besides Joe

It wouldn’t serve any good purpose to name any one. So no thanks.

Then you should change the title. Just ask for civility for the thousandth time here.

 

[timschochet]

I'd be disappointed to see this place go because of all the time we've all spent here, but I don't see the direction of this forum trending in the right direction.

This is not so different from the direction of the country. Politicians, media, and celebrities have lost some part of their decency. We've lost it here as well.

I posted way too emotionally since Biden's speech and while I've calmed, It just feels like we're in too deep. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

This was a good weekend to step away and regain some sanity. Enjoy being outside with friends and family is always great.

Wish you all the best. I think we are in for some tough times ahead. We either hit rock bottom and bounce back or we don't.

Wish you the best too Max. I was rough with you during the reaction to the Biden speech. If I offended you in any way I apologize.

 

[Max Power]

I'd be disappointed to see this place go because of all the time we've all spent here, but I don't see the direction of this forum trending in the right direction.

This is not so different from the direction of the country. Politicians, media, and celebrities have lost some part of their decency. We've lost it here as well.

I posted way too emotionally since Biden's speech and while I've calmed, It just feels like we're in too deep. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

This was a good weekend to step away and regain some sanity. Enjoy being outside with friends and family is always great.

Wish you all the best. I think we are in for some tough times ahead. We either hit rock bottom and bounce back or we don't.

Wish you the best too Max. I was rough with you during the reaction to the Biden speech. If I offended you in any way I apologize.

Thanks, same back at you. I went over the line to make a point. Not my best moment.

Hope you and your family have a good labor day!

 

[Joe Bryant]

Do you think moderation can hurt your business, Joe? The way I see it, assuming business isn't a factor, people complaining about moderation is 'whatever', especially if everyone's made fully aware that there's a zero tolerance policy and you'll likely feel a suspension was unfair. Of course, that premise goes out the window if it's going to hurt your business too.

I'm really not sure. Every year we have a couple of people who say they were life long paying subscriber but now will never again buy from us because they feel they were unfairly treated (suspended) on the forums. Lots of people never forget that stuff.

But I don't really know if there's a bigger effect than that.

I think some of it is a maybe weird "principle" thing in I just feel bad for providing a place where it appears a non trivial number of people are bad versions of themselves. I think what others have said above about this place bringing out the worst is not inaccurate.

 

[(HULK)]

Everyone needs to treat this place like they're a guest in Joe's house, and then we'd be fine.

We probably could use more moderation, but being a fair and balanced moderator might be near impossible. People should remember this. People should never be PM'ing Joe about posts here, that's just ridiculous. It's something that never once even occurred to me as a reasonable choice, so if you're doing or have done that, please wake up and recognize it isn't suitable behavior.

I will say this, if you ever get hit with a temp ban or have posts deleted and you want to fight with moderation over it, don't. Just accept that your posts were over whatever the line is and apologize and move on. Like, if you're in Joe's house and you make a joke about his wife's cooking that you thought was no big deal and funny and he asks you to leave, humbly apologize and leave, don't be the guy who argues with your host.