Is there any way we could refrain from the use of the word, VACCINE? Why can't it just be called what it really is? A flu shot!!! (1 Viewer)

[dkp993]

Sacrificing for your wife and child is a very worthy and noble reason to go with the flow or "on the orders of the doctor"

You and several others are very good at allowing some of us to get a few things off our chests without trying to throw more gasoline on things. Sincerely think you, @Nathan R. Jessep @Doug B almost too many to name them all individual but I always approach my posts back and forth with a certain added level of respect because i genuinely want to know what these folks are thinking and going thru because I can relate to them even if we have some differing ways to get to the end goal.

Tip of the cap from moP and you make me want to engage more and open up. It's a good thing.  

You’re a good dude MoP.  Always enjoy our interactions.  

 

[El Floppo]

first of all, the flu shot is a vaccine.  

you can't change the name of the covid vaccine.  that cat is out of the bag.  would more people have gotten the covid vaccine, if they had called it a flu shot?       absolutely not.  that is a terrible idea. most people don't get a flu shot.  now you want to tell people, "hey, there's a bonus flu shot this year".  you will only get a percentage of the those that already get a flu shot to take it, not more.

people are stupid.  i am very rarely sick.  the flu shot contains a few variants, that scientists think might be prevalent that year.  there many variants.  i played the odds.  my wife says i'm an idiot.  i'm 52.  i have gotten 2 flu shots in my life.  mainly to lessen how many times, my wife, calls me an idiot.  as we age, some of us get smarter.  i will getting a flu shot from now on.  me smart.

I've gotten the flu shot once. I was symptomatic from it- basically equivalent to the rare (1/decade) times I get the flu... so I figured- f that, I'll roll the dice instead of knowing that I'm getting sick every year when I get the shot. wife had the exact same reaction and solution- and she got even more sick than I did, which she did again with the Covid shot. 

 

[Tom Skerritt]

It’s amazing to me how little people understand science, and particularly in this case… immunology. 
 

And those who do not understand science and immunology should refrain from commenting and offering suggestions. 

 

[Chemical X]

I disagree Jake and I respect your viewpoint, we don't have to hit it back and forth. It's not bait and switch IMHO, it's about coming clean with citizens and not pushing them into the vaccine booth out of pure fear. This virus has a lot less punch in the healthy side of the population which I actually limit to like 10% of the popultion these days that is really so fit and bulletproof they don't need it. That's fine, we still would vaccinate most of the rest of the folks. 

The problem is fat people are jealous that healthy folks are skipping the shots in their 20s 30s and 40s and feel like somehow its not fair or the also don't need to protect themselves. 

Trying to convince the healthy folks they might die from Covid is a waste of time IMO, never gonna happen. This community is pretty tight and they already feel like they make a lot of sacrifices and exceptions for unhealthy folks as it is. They by and large don't trust the entire Commercial Health Industry and know most of that is set up to market to the weak and overweight thinking they can buy their way to health with a $2,500 machine, it doesn't work like that. 

how do non covid vaccine folks feel about polio, mumphs, etc.?  people like to cherry pick to fit their whim.  whatever way the wind blows.  people say they are making personal choices, but they are just sheep, generally following the guidance of a game show host.

 

[Runkle]

So MOP doesn't know the difference between influenza and coronavirus?

 

[Runkle]

How many people in the US got covid last year? 30,000,000?

How many people in the US got the flu last year? 3,000?

Seem equivalent?

MOP is off by ten-thousand-fold. Seems about right. 

 

[Chris B.]

first of all, the flu shot is a vaccine.  

you can't change the name of the covid vaccine.  that cat is out of the bag.  would more people have gotten the covid vaccine, if they had called it a flu shot?       absolutely not.  that is a terrible idea. most people don't get a flu shot.  now you want to tell people, "hey, there's a bonus flu shot this year".  you will only get a percentage of the those that already get a flu shot to take it, not more.

people are stupid.  i am very rarely sick.  the flu shot contains a few variants, that scientists think might be prevalent that year.  there many variants.  i played the odds.  my wife says i'm an idiot.  i'm 52.  i have gotten 2 flu shots in my life.  mainly to lessen how many times, my wife, calls me an idiot.  as we age, some of us get smarter.  i will getting a flu shot from now on.  me smart.

The way I understand it, each year a flu shot is created based on the flu strains from the previous season. The flu virus mutates so the shot is only somewhat effective.
That's kind of what we're seeing with COVID, the vaccine is based on (and built to fight) the original virus. So it's 90% effective against it. When the variants come around it's not quite as effective but still better than not having been vaccinated at all. It's a moving target as there's no cure for viruses.

 

[identikit]

vax

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So MOP doesn't know the difference between influenza and coronavirus?

You didn't read along very far 

This is not about science and if you cling to that you are going to end up on the short side of this thread quickly. I stated once or twice I am coming from a marketing and sales POV, something I know a lot about and something that many don't understand at all, because there are only 8-9% of that are the "I" in D-I-S-C which is a backbone of HR hiring and businesses in this country, we're known a lot as Sales or influencers although this is different from Knock Knock or whatever that social media platform is that has "influencers" and we dance to our own beat most of the time. 

So forgive some of us for doing what we know best. I don't believe the vast majority in here have a medical license, some of us are trying to help maybe find an in road to folks that for whatever the reason are resistant to wanting to take their shots or take one for the team. 

-We know the flu shots are the same thing as vaccine but many would respect it more if people just called it a flu shot vs a true vaccine, that seems to have really been a stretch or possible lie to induce people to get it and take it and I feel some of those folks have buyer's remorse now OR just simply hate that they did the right thing and for some reason want everyone else to join them...like Christianity in a way 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The way I understand it, each year a flu shot is created based on the flu strains from the previous season. The flu virus mutates so the shot is only somewhat effective.
That's kind of what we're seeing with COVID, the vaccine is based on (and built to fight) the original virus. So it's 90% effective against it. When the variants come around it's not quite as effective but still better than not having been vaccinated at all. It's a moving target as there's no cure for viruses.

So you think all the folks who pass on yearly flu shots are off their rocker if I read this post correctly, yes/no?

The Blue feels a lot more like a sweeping opinion. "It's still better than"...that really excludes folks like my younger brother who has severe allergic reactions to shots. He had to take one about 10 years ago and it ravished his skin for months, I've seen pictures and I believe him. I'm not going to mandate that he HAS to get these shots if it poses some side effect that cripples him just so some folks who believe everything that is broadcast from TV Land can sleep at night. I won't do it. 

Let me try and make an analogy so folks understand my POV, indulge me for a minute if you will CB. Think about abortion for a second and my wife and I are PRO CHOICE, now we choose not to abort but we respect, defend and honor those who opt not to choose that path. I cannot make it much clearer than that. You can be Pro Choice and still choose to not have an abortion, there's room for more folks in that lane vs if we wanted to be anti-abortion and turn it into a holy war or tug'o war and those don't really help bring people together. 

There are going to be folks who won't get the shot, period. I'm trying to focus on the folks we can sway, there's way more who will take this shot if given the right circumstances. And to think otherwise is naive IMHO. People can be bought for the right amount all the time, Wall Street thinks up ways everyday to extract money from our bank account and paychecks, why on earth can they not figure out a way to make everyone want the shot. 

-$50 off a pair of Nikes at Foot Locker

-Free ticket to concert or sporting event when you get vaccinated on your way in

-$1,000 tax credit...not enough? Try $2,500 but my thinking here is the people who really need to get the flu shots likely don't pay that many taxes anyways so this might not work. 

-Student loan forgiveness...oh yes!

-Want the handouts from the government? Gotta get the shot and I find this one hard to be on the other side of the aisle. If you want to play chicken with the CV-19 that's on you but we are not going to enable you with government handouts. This one doesn't get a lot of positive feedback and I don't know why     and I'm being glib here quite honestly, right @Tom Skerritt wherever you are hovering and looking over my shoulder 

That was a long post back with a few different arcs in it but you really triggered a response from me 

It's Friday night, time to light this J up for the evening and relax.  

 

[Ministry of Pain]

vax

You of all people ID should know that these vaccines or flu shots can give people a vague sense of unease, do you know what I mean? 

I bet you do

 

[identikit]

You of all people ID should know that these vaccines or flu shots can give people a vague sense of unease, do you know what I mean? 

I bet you do

Consider yourself doxxed

 

[AAABatteries]

The posters on this board do not represent any semblance of the real world population. This board is like 95% (Im exaggerating for effect) old, white, rich, liberals.

Depending on your definition of each I don't think old, rich or liberal describes most of us.  You nailed it with white.

To be more precise (IMO) - the board is mostly middle aged, white, upper middle class, educated, white collar, anti-Trump, fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Depending on your definition of each I don't think old, rich or liberal describes most of us.  You nailed it with white.

To be more precise (IMO) - the board is mostly middle aged, white, upper middle class, educated, white collar, anti-Trump, fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

I do not believe that and in the future would you please take these political statements over to the psf, thank you very much 

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The way I understand it, each year a flu shot is created based on the flu strains from the previous season. The flu virus mutates so the shot is only somewhat effective.
That's kind of what we're seeing with COVID, the vaccine is based on (and built to fight) the original virus. So it's 90% effective against it. When the variants come around it's not quite as effective but still better than not having been vaccinated at all. It's a moving target as there's no cure for viruses.

I understand how flu vaccines work. 
 

pretty sure you missed my point. 

 

[[icon]]

Has anyone pointed out to MoP that calling a shot to prevent a coronavirus an "inFLUenza shot" is kinda silly? 
 

Whelp, I'm off to get some horse dewormer for my viral infection. 

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Has anyone pointed out to MoP that calling a shot to prevent a coronavirus an "inFLUenza shot" is kinda silly? 
 

he has repeatedly said, if you're going to use science, this isn't the thread for you.  

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

They should call the vaccine FatBurner 5000 or Boner Juice.

Horny Goat Weed.

Anyone else remember that?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

BTW any adults actually get any of the recommended boosters?

Yep.  Walked right up and asked for them by name.  I should be getting my Shingrix vaccine next week.  Ask for it by name.  Shingles can be really nasty.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

The way I understand it, each year a flu shot is created based on the flu strains from the previous season.

Not quite.  It's predictive as well.

The CDC explains it all for you.

Part of the point of getting everyone the Covid vaccine is to slow down the virus from changing into various forms.  That helps make the entire thing more protective.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Is there any way we could refrain from the use of the word, VACCINE?

No. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

BTW any adults actually get any of the recommended boosters?

Yep.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

yeah, but it's called "the flu shot" so that makes it, like, totally different 

Well that is the entire basis of this thread. I’m not sure I understand the “point” at all.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You didn't read along very far 

This is not about science and if you cling to that you are going to end up on the short side of this thread quickly. I stated once or twice I am coming from a marketing and sales POV, something I know a lot about and something that many don't understand at all, because there are only 8-9% of that are the "I" in D-I-S-C which is a backbone of HR hiring and businesses in this country, we're known a lot as Sales or influencers although this is different from Knock Knock or whatever that social media platform is that has "influencers" and we dance to our own beat most of the time. 

So forgive some of us for doing what we know best. I don't believe the vast majority in here have a medical license, some of us are trying to help maybe find an in road to folks that for whatever the reason are resistant to wanting to take their shots or take one for the team. 

-We know the flu shots are the same thing as vaccine but many would respect it more if people just called it a flu shot vs a true vaccine, that seems to have really been a stretch or possible lie to induce people to get it and take it and I feel some of those folks have buyer's remorse now OR just simply hate that they did the right thing and for some reason want everyone else to join them...like Christianity in a way 

What would possibly make you think the idiots that said Covid was “just the flu” in the first place would run out and get “flu shots”? 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I do not believe that and in the future would you please take these political statements over to the psf, thank you very much 

That wasn’t a political statement. It was an observation and generalization. He didn’t even claim to be anti-Trump himself (even if he is).

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's not a failure of marketing at this stage.

I'm of the belief that the unvaccinated are engaging in a form of civil disobedience.

So...if everyone would just shut up about getting vaccinated for, oh I don't know, maybe a half a second, I think those people would start getting it in bigger numbers.

 

[gianmarco]

It's not a failure of marketing at this stage.

I'm of the belief that the unvaccinated are engaging in a form of civil disobedience.

So...if everyone would just shut up about getting vaccinated for, oh I don't know, maybe a half a second, I think those people would start getting it in bigger numbers.

The vaccine has only been out for almost a year.  Yeah, I don't think "shutting up about getting vaccinated for half a second" is the issue.

"Doctor, would you just chill out?  I'll take the antibiotic.  Just stop pressuring me for just a moment!"

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The vaccine has only been out for almost a year.  Yeah, I don't think "shutting up about getting vaccinated for half a second" is the issue.

"Doctor, would you just chill out?  I'll take the antibiotic.  Just stop pressuring me for just a moment!"

Okay

 

[mr. furley]

Well that is the entire basis of this thread. I’m not sure I understand the “point” at all.

me either 

 

[woodstock]

It's not a failure of marketing at this stage.

I'm of the belief that the unvaccinated are engaging in a form of civil disobedience.

So...if everyone would just shut up about getting vaccinated for, oh I don't know, maybe a half a second, I think those people would start getting it in bigger numbers.

There was a very prescient author in The Guardian recently who had predicted the response to COVID in a paper and book he had written pre-COVID. He said that people refusing the vaccine are likely exercising their abstract political rights. I'm not sure you're far off here when it comes to addressing the psychology of people who won't even get vaccinated with FDA approval. 

Different tactics are required to get them to the doctor than mere persuasion. 

 

[jhib]

Plenty of people already call it a Covid shot.  Doesn't seem to help, but it at least makes a lot more sense than calling it a flu shot.

 

[jhib]

I want transparency at this point, no more games and fibs by those involved. This has to come to an end sooner or later or something far worse is going to happen. 

You seem to be implying that the officials who are recommending/"marketing" the shots are fibbing and playing games.  I would argue that it's the other side who are the ones doing that, including misrepresenting the original messages.  Like this from your OP:

We've tried to brand them as vaccines and tell people it is the cure all to this but then we have people still getting the virus after their "vaccines"

Nobody ever said they were the cure all for the individual, so that is no surprise unless you're listening to the wrong people.  If anything, it was presented as a societal "cure" in the sense that they represent the way out of all this if - but only if enough people get vaccinated, starting with those for whom it's an easy option but they choose not to.

 

[jhib]

It’s amazing to me how little people understand science, and particularly in this case… immunology. 
 

And those who do not understand science and immunology should refrain from commenting and offering suggestions. 

Exactly.  The side of science may need better marketing strategies, but the marketers have to work with the scientists.

We already have people who don't understand or are blatantly anti-science doing too much marketing. That's why we're having such a hard time getting out of this predicament.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

 

[dkp993]

I’m surprised it took a page and a half of comments before it got moved to the PSF.  Mods must be busy updating their rankings.  

 

[GordonGekko]

I try and be honest with all of you and when I engage I go out of my way to try and understand peoples feelings and the emotions of what is causing mass hysteria IMHO.....

-Open your mind, think outside the box, just call it a flu shot ....

You want to be honest and understanding with the American people by lying to them?

There is a massive difference between coronavirus and influenza.

1) You won't win over hearts and minds of those who are mistrustful of the government and Big Medicine and Big Pharma by lying to them

2) If you do something that can be easily fact checked away by any human being with an internet connection, you've also challenged them by implying they are stupid

3) Since coronavirus and influenza are not the same thing, you can't have people shouting "Follow the science!" anymore, since you are asking for a formal high level government widespread decision to not follow the science.

You don't win hearts and minds by shaming people, lying to them, trying to dox and end their careers, virtue signaling and logical fallacy bombing them.

Here's a simpler fix. Tell people they don't have to get the vaccine, but anyone who doesn't, when they retire, they are no longer qualified for Medicare. Get an army of lawyers and change the law. Make it legal to do that.  (When I say Army Of Lawyers, I mean skilled ones, so you know... not hiring from the pool of lawyers from....OK, I'll just move on)

 

[[scooter]]

How many people in the US got covid last year? 30,000,000?

How many people in the US got the flu last year? 3,000?

Seem equivalent?

MOP is off by ten-thousand-fold. Seems about right. 

Flu numbers were way down last year, for a variety of reasons (#1 being the fact that millions of people were socially distant).

The USA generally averages around 30 million cases of the flu per season, which runs 8 months.

There were 19 million reported cases of COVID in the last 10 months of 2020.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What would possibly make you think the idiots that said Covid was “just the flu” in the first place would run out and get “flu shots”? 

Honesty? 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

That wasn’t a political statement. It was an observation and generalization. He didn’t even claim to be anti-Trump himself (even if he is).

Inside joke my friend but believe me, @AAABatteries understood and if I was really after anyone I would invite our boy Jenkins because he is ever so flippant in that CV-19 thread of anyone who even leans towards a jersey color he doesn't approve of 

Mostly why I steer clear of that one and try to keep pushing what i think is actually pretty relevant to the pandemic. But keep fighting the good fight, I'm actually on most folks side in here but they sometimes can't see the trees thru the forest. Or they view me as some sort of Anti-them when that's not really true. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's not a failure of marketing at this stage.

I'm of the belief that the unvaccinated are engaging in a form of civil disobedience.

So...if everyone would just shut up about getting vaccinated for, oh I don't know, maybe a half a second, I think those people would start getting it in bigger numbers.

How can you possibly say that with a straight face when 2/3 of blacks are unvaccinated? Honestly what is your defense Andy?

Could you think for a second before wanting to post at me and not the actual issue at hand. I love you like a brother in so many ways on here AD but this is not something I can really entertain and still have some heat in this specific thread because I AM after the messaging brand which currently STINKS!!!

-Civil Disobedience is not driving this I assure you but that sounds mighty righteous if you are sitting on one particular side right now....that is RICH!

Anyone who questions or hits pause is a civil disobedient??? Holy Mack-Moly we might need to have a history lesson or at least crack an American History book on how this country was founded. 

This country was started on CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE and DEFYING Tyranny I hate to tell you.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's not a failure of marketing at this stage.

I'm of the belief that the unvaccinated are engaging in a form of civil disobedience.

So...if everyone would just shut up about getting vaccinated for, oh I don't know, maybe a half a second, I think those people would start getting it in bigger numbers.

I'm posting at AD twice for a reason. The first post is my knee-jerk shoot from the hip reaction...my other post is going to be different. 

I want more folks to be honest like AD and just lay it out there. We have got to stop being scared of either being outed or hurting some folks feelings in order to try and make a better place for the "Majority"...you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, every chef will tell you that!

But keep posting things you feel in response to my marketing efforts, I'm not trying to disprove or affirm anything, what I am saying is the folks trying to get the most people vaccinated are FAILING right now and since the same dude oversaw Afghan withdrawal, IDA, 70% already supposed to be vaccinated and we have not come close to that so far, its not looking good and believe it or not, some of us folks who lean right are not wanting Biden to resign or be impeached, I assure you most clear thinking conservatives are not trying to push that right now and these elected officials who keep bringing it up should be gagged or ordered by their leaders SHUT UP right now. You literally have them all but hanging themselves politically and you want to brush up the media firestorm, are you NUTS?!

We got bigger problems than what the news seems to be dialed down on at the moment. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The vaccine has only been out for almost a year.  Yeah, I don't think "shutting up about getting vaccinated for half a second" is the issue.

"Doctor, would you just chill out?  I'll take the antibiotic.  Just stop pressuring me for just a moment!"

When is the last time you got a check up from your doctor? Next question because I realized this as I was getting my physical, skipped 2020 and then went this year, doctor gained 50 lbs and MoP lost about 40-50 so I asked him to hop on the table for a change. 

Fit gorgeous nurse openly told me she was not vaccinated and my doctor does a full on Liza Minelli(He's Male) number with an accompanying dance routine about the importance of the vaccine...you tell me because that's my world, not the TV. 

Real truth folks, indulge me because I have not pulled punches and told everyone about my personal war with this pandemic, I have family that need the vaccine that won't take it so I'm not any different than any of you but I'm a realist and I won't listen to much the TV or my elected officials tell me. If that's a problem for some of you so be it. I won't allow nonsense to control my ability to think outside of the box, period. 

And I think you're a smart dude, GM. I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't respect you in here. 

 

[Shutout]

Here's a simpler fix. Tell people they don't have to get the vaccine, but anyone who doesn't, when they retire, they are no longer qualified for Medicare. 

Posts like this make me think of why this is such a touchy issue. 

For some reason we are now at a point where extreme solutions are being sought to try to make a point. Social Security and Medicare were vitally important to providing long-term stability solutions for our entire nation when they were introduced decades ago. But now, it's like the thought process is "How do we provide a 'choice' that really isn't a choice?" 

What if we went after people with this level of crucification over issues like smoking and alcoholism and said smokers and alcoholics also forfeited their Medicare rights? One might say "well, smoking and drinking is known to affect people but it doesn't affect me directly. This does." But we know about second hand smoke and it is certainly plausible that if I drink and drive, my car might very well impact that family of 5 on my drive home from the bar. So, it's relatable. 

It's like Andy Durfrense saying above that people not getting vaccinated are exacting a "form of civil disobedience".

 Do you see the issue with assuming that people not doing something the way you have it made up in your mind that it should be and how that causes issues?

Each year in America, somewhere between 280,000-325,000 die of obesity. We don't crusade against those folks.  They impact themselves, they impact their families and friends. They strain the health care system and take beds and time away from others. We know this kills people. But we don't persecute these people in the same way. 

Respect of other people's opinions is a logical response here. Not unrelenting pressure to do as they want or do as they are told. Find common ground. Understand the counter opinion. Have an open mind. I don't see anybody running around yelling at a fat woman screaming to high heaven that because of her, some child in her town went hungry tonight and therefore will suffer because there is no pizza for her. We can get covid in many ways. We can get flus, colds, HIV, herpes, food poisoning, and lots of other things in similar exposure-related ways.  We don't shame and persecute any other group in the way we have "rallied" around this issue. 

We should back off a little and respect others. You might still be right but in the end it should be enough for you to know you did what you could do, based on what you believed is right. You vaccinated.  Your spouse/family did, etc. you are now as well prepared against Covid as you can reasonably be. That should be enough for you to not try to call the shots on other people's lives. 

Akin to MOP's post, it's the presentation (marketing) of this as much as anything.  

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Well that is the entire basis of this thread. I’m not sure I understand the “point” at all.

me either 

Vaccines are traditionally for most folks thought of as 1-shot and done, that suddenly has become a different definition and some folks like to act as though the folks who ask a question or two about that should have their skulls crushed in, we could start there.

Honestly, not wanting to argue but I feel strongly if they were a little more truthful that most folks would accept it as a strong flu shot that will alleviate them almost 100% of certain death. There is a way to present this in an honest light so folks are not trying to buy horse dewormers as a safety valve.(Wall Street Journal article on it) 

Rather than point and ask WTF is wrong with them, why not ask why we are having such a difficult time getting people to want to live out their current lives...why is it easier to sell the after life than it is the current life?(Pastors apparently must know the secret) These are deep thoughts but we gotta go below the surface because the current stream is not working, at least not for everyone or even the majority right now. 

In 1982, a young boy figured out how to lure a space alien into a garage using Reese's Pieces(proud sponsor of MoP) and all I'm saying is we need to expand our horizons here and not be so obtuse to other's opinions and feelings. 

-If you two get what you want and classify the unvaccinated as mentally ill, that's gonna open up a whole new can of worms IMHO, now they get protection and all kinds of intervention so try and understand in a weird way I(MoP) am actually on your side. 

We are just a couple dominos away from a potential changing of the guard in the WH and how could someone who got less than 2% of their own primary, suddenly be on the cusp of inheriting the office of the President, my goodness they might as well elect a game show host at that point. 

(MoP takes a bow) that's top shelf there and you know it. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

 Different tactics are required to get them to the doctor than mere persuasion. 

You thoroughly understand the meaning and theme of this thread. 

Can I get you something to drink, sir?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You seem to be implying that the officials who are recommending/"marketing" the shots are fibbing and playing games.  I would argue that it's the other side who are the ones doing that, including misrepresenting the original messages.  Like this from your OP:

Nobody ever said they were the cure all for the individual, so that is no surprise unless you're listening to the wrong people.  If anything, it was presented as a societal "cure" in the sense that they represent the way out of all this if - but only if enough people get vaccinated, starting with those for whom it's an easy option but they choose not to.

I'm sorry bud but this just made me   . to the point   I can barely . type the response . but god bless you because what a wonderful release this is .

OMG!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

but the marketers have to work with the scientists.

MoP reporting for duty. 

You don't know it yet jhib but I promise you are going to love my next thread because you have triggered an idea that I want to launch but I can't do it in here or it's gonna be an all out hi-jack and i truly want to try and stay on topic. I appreciate your posts and willingness to exchange. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I have no clue what you were trying to say to me.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Each year in America, somewhere between 280,000-325,000 die of obesity. We don't crusade against those folks.  They impact themselves, they impact their families and friends. They strain the health care system and take beds and time away from others. We know this kills people. But we don't persecute these people in the same way.   

The whole post is pretty awesome and I was actually going to make a flippant response to you about "Please Shutout, this will get booted to the PSF" but...

-Since they keep throwing us into the same hole I think we might have to team up like George the Animal Steele and the Junkyard Dog at some point.

 

 

[woodstock]

I have no clue what you were trying to say to me.

I was agreeing with you about the mindset and got offered a drink, so I’m not totally positive where MoP is at, either. 
 

I think he misunderstood your post. He thought you were condemning people, not trying to understand them. 

I’m not sure it’s all something that can be sorted out in this format, either. I got what you were saying, I think.