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I am not coming away with this sentiment. A very small minority perhaps - which by the way, is much the same percentage that engage in the most egregious behavior in general - but I think some constructive thoughts and positive posts have resulted here.
This is why I lurked often during my year's self exile (which unfortunately I only broke to ##### in a misguided attempt to make things better... emphasis on misguided. Apologies @Joe Bryant)
Ooof, I broke that rule here. And dammit, there I go again.
I don't disagree with this. But, let's extrapolate it out to the rest of society. IE shutting down this board. We are in the midst of unprecedented political turmoil. Should we shut down media? Or perhaps shut down town halls or protests? They are all ways that people from both sides express their opinions. Silencing voices never solves the problem. Embracing it and recognizing the problem leads to solutions. We need to find ways to extend olive branches when met with conflict. If our elected officials can't do this, maybe we can in this small corner of the internet.
Agree with this. I've been hesitant to engage at times because of that exact mentality.
Goodness, no. This is where not-very-knowledgeable people like me come to get things explained to them. We have people here who know stuff. That's really helpful, not intimidating.
Thanks Koya- always thought you were a good guy on here, even when things got a bit carried away there. You're all good.
I'd respectfully disagree. I used to rarely post in political threads. But we are at a precarious time in our nation's and global history, so with all that is going on, especially since the Trump administration took the reigns (and in the lead up to it), I actually ended up finding far more value here than even the FFA. If not for this board, I'd probably check out the Shark Pool, but not much else.
This would be a lot easier if the threads did not get to 25 pages of negativity and slander in about 2 hours. 5 pages of two posters going back and forth about their perception of what a word means is exhausting.
Not so much doubling down as recognizing how much of a wedge this specific issue creates here - and in general. After all, we have a President that calls 100% factually based, well sourced, clearly demonstrated facts as "fake news" - that is an assault on the truth. We have certain extreme media, some representing far left and some representing far right perspectives, that are at the least accused of spin at best, and outright lies and blatant falsehoods at worst. We have seen a significant increase in gaslighting and propaganda in general in this nation.
Well that's kind of what I was getting at. I feel calling someones opinion a falsehood isnt a good idea. Opinions are what they are. Certainly they can be wrong in someones eyes, but falsehood implies that the other side is fact, and that I dont agree with
Don't want to further hijack this thread with this one issue - perhaps worth a thread of its own - but there is a difference between opinions and facts. And stating a falsehood but calling it an opinion doesn't change the underlying reality.
Lots of excellent posts in this thread, but mostly they're making it all too complicated. This post IMO hits the nail on the head. For god's sake, it isn't that hard. "It's not fair"-type posts (not an actual quote) miss the point entirely. Guess what? The forum is never going to be "fair" in the sense of any one person's definition. Some might think it unfair that they were suspended for a post while others who've done what they consider to be worse were not. Some might think it unfair because the moderators don't smack down every post that is a misstatement of fact. Some might think it unfair that others with different viewpoints "pile on."Joe is spelling it out for us right here. Just treat people with a little respect. As if you are speaking to them face to face. Now, if this is how you treat people IRL, maybe this isn't the board for you. But ask yourself, every time you post, if what you are writing falls into any of these categories. The whole ""transcript" nonsense is a perfect example. Either put Noonan on ignore, scroll past or if you must reply, write "not a transcript" and move on to your actual discussion. No need to badger him over and over on it. Move on!
and FWIW, I don't blame Trump. Things have gotten a lot angrier around here since the yoga pants thread and Who's Hottest threads were banned.
By definition either in the salad or part of the dressing.
I agree with this. I also think it's hard for members of the mob to recognize it when it happens -- i.e., the mob isn't doing it on purpose, but is instead unaware of itself.
See that completely depends on what you call a fact. As someone said before, calling the Washington Monument an obelisk is a fact.
I just spent 10 minutes going through yesterday's exchange picking quotes out to link here and then accidentally hit quote in the long thread and lost them.
@Don't Noonan - I pledge to be more excellent in my responses to you (they are rarely exchanges, and I'll take responsibility for much of that).
If I can ask you a very sincere and honest question, and I hope you take it in that manner:
One of the issues on this board is a feeling that some posters are purposefully putting out falsehoods. It goes both ways, and I know you personally have been at the center of many such accusations, and perhaps indeed, attacks - and I know you have accused others of engaging in such behavior. FYI, this post is not to suggest either you nor they (nor me) is right or wrong, but more a question of how we should handle such posts in the future, in the spirit of being better to one another and fostering more constructive discourse.
If/when that should occur in the future, what is the best means for us to substantively engage... how do we have a constructive discussion rather than the ping pong "you lied" to lead to a "no I didn't" type he said/she said?
I mean this sincerely, as I think we all want to abide by what would be consider the truth (I'd hope so at least). And obviously the same goes for those that you see make a statement that you believe is at best not fully true, and potentially a flat out lie.
This seems to be a core issue, and again this is not about blame or whether its true or not since we likely differ in that opinion. It's about how should we react to others when we see something repeatedly stated that we feel has been shown to not be representative of the truth.
I do look forward to your answer and hope you see this in the positive spirit in which my question intends. Thank you.
Not wasting time doing it again.
By simply showing an example of what i was talking about? Is this what it has come too? If so, the political forum needs to go.
I think asking a question to clarify is fine. But when the other guy clearly doesn't see it as false then let it go. The issue though is no one will let it go and they hammer the guy expecting to beat him down into seeing it their way (with a dozen others jumping in to dogpile) and then they follow that guy around from thread to thread and continue to hammer him.
I'm not here to back Noonan or not, but I keep seeing this on the forum. It's a weird sort of witch trial mentality/vibe that goes on. "You're the witch!" "She's the witch!" "Well, burn the witch!"
Also it would be nice to discuss those topics without constantly involving Trump, which never ends well. I can't tell you the number of times I've posted an opinion on a subject and get 10 replies "So you won't be voting for Trump in 2020 then?" or some similar reply that's nothing to do with the actual subject. It ends the discussion every single time.
I am usually more interested in HOW someone got to their opinion of things than what their opinion of things actually is. Obviously, I need to know the latter to get to the former, but I find the former much more informative and interesting.
I mean, all of us have expressed the want for dissent and discussion. he's literally the definition of an internet troll. I think 5 or 6 months ago and I paraphrase "I just love seeing liberals getting riled up" - Dont Noonan. That's a troll. That's it and that's all. Then he comes here and cries about being outnumbered. Hit someone and run behind the teacher and cry number 1 suspect.
I tried that. It alleviating any tendencies to posting things that would get reported here, but in turn garnered numerous reports to HR at the office.
I spent some time discussing this with you. I would ask, why concentrate on the negative when there are positive interactions that lead to more productive outcomes. You'll be happier in the end.I just spent 10 minutes going through yesterday's exchange picking quotes out to link here and then accidentally hit quote in the long thread and lost them.
There was one or two posters that responded perfectly fine saying that yes it was called a transcript by the media but the fine print said it wasn't verbatim. That is perfectly fine, then the discussion should lead to was anything relevant to the impeachment left out or was it minor details or national security info. Nope, we had groups of folks demanding I don't call it a transcript and called me a liar. I posted a link of CNN, CBS, NBC calling it a transcript and Joe commented that I was correct and Fish and others were crying for no reason.
You yourself said I was either intentionally spreading false info or trolling. Can you see where I and the majority of the public are coming from? Should we not believe the media? Should I assume Trump altered the transcript or didn't include damaging parts like you guys obviously do?
How about adding "You should travel more often", which clearly implies wishing harm to them.
This....I don` think they do it as a "mob" per say. But there are maybe 10-15 guys who respond the exact same way to opposing views and in a snarky way. I am on the mob side most of the time but when I have not been they have piled on me as well. I just don`t agree with everything that either side does. If I don`t like something Pelosi says I am labeled a closet Trumper. It is crazy.
This simply isn't true. Not sure what happened to you as you used to be a good dude. For what it's worth, I am willing to bury the hatchet if you are.
Which is why I tried to take Don't Noonan off of the table and generalize the behavior. It's not just Don't Noonan. It doesn't have to be about the poster's past. It can be issue-specific, politician-specific, anything you want.
Your last comment was unacceptable.
Sure, I mean I know it happened, but it doesnt matter at this point either way tbh. It's old even if our interpretation is different. I get it and I'm good to move it through.
