ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Nah I gotcha. I just think it's sad that is what modern news media has become. That we consider letting someone fully explain themselves as friendly toward said guest.
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Joe Rogan Endorsement of Bernie Sanders - A Negative? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Others have already explained but that would be typical of a Rogan interview or at least the ones I've listened to. He frequently has somewhat controversial folks on and allows them to get their points out. But I think he does an ok job at asking some difficult questions and manages to disagree with people without sounding like a jerk. I've not listened to the ones referenced by Caustic - I'd like to see how he handles them.
And just to note - I'm not a huge Rogan fan or anything and I'm not trying to defend him but I do find his podcasts entertaining and for the most part I think he's a good dude that just wants everyone to get along.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm comparing it to a Tim Russert or Chris Wallace style interview. Honestly, I think both styles can be valuable to the listener.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i honestly can't think of a more influential voice among male Purples, so it's a pretty big get for the Bern if he wants to see it that way. The Joe Rogan Experience is what i think of when i think of podcasts, and i'm not all that much a fan. But a huge percentage of my i-pals hold him near icon status.
To his credit, Rogan is honestly curious. Virtually everytime i find an online voice, TEDtalker type that i wish would get more exposure, i'll see that person (esp if he's male) get it on JRE. And his curiosity is all over the spectrum, so he's going to pass nobody's purity test except maybe MMA fans. He finds as much common ground with Bill Maher as Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro as Bernie Sanders.
But he's ambitious, would love it if the wokesters he loves to castigate (in a portmanteau which begins w "lib") made him their pariah, as Peterson has become in Canada and beyond. It mystifies AND bothers me when the President gets more popular the more reactionary he gets. It would amuse and fascinate me if the same happened to Rogan.
That doesn't make it easier for Sanders. He desperately needs to expand his base because even half the Democrats ain't gonna make him President and he don't even have that. Don't think i've ever agreed with @cubd8 before, but i too believe that this "purity test" is mostly coming from those looking to wedge-issue the macho on Warren's behalf.
To his credit, Rogan is honestly curious. Virtually everytime i find an online voice, TEDtalker type that i wish would get more exposure, i'll see that person (esp if he's male) get it on JRE. And his curiosity is all over the spectrum, so he's going to pass nobody's purity test except maybe MMA fans. He finds as much common ground with Bill Maher as Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro as Bernie Sanders.
But he's ambitious, would love it if the wokesters he loves to castigate (in a portmanteau which begins w "lib") made him their pariah, as Peterson has become in Canada and beyond. It mystifies AND bothers me when the President gets more popular the more reactionary he gets. It would amuse and fascinate me if the same happened to Rogan.
That doesn't make it easier for Sanders. He desperately needs to expand his base because even half the Democrats ain't gonna make him President and he don't even have that. Don't think i've ever agreed with @cubd8 before, but i too believe that this "purity test" is mostly coming from those looking to wedge-issue the macho on Warren's behalf.
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HellToupee
Footballguy
I never heard Alex Jones besides stuff posted here until he was on Rogan. The 1st hour I thought this guy is out there but nothing like his rep, by the end it was confirmed to me that he’s bat #### crazy. Actually worse than I imagined . To me having him on was very valuable
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I completely agree with you here but I'll just mention that he'll nicely twist you into a logic pretzel and make you look foolish like he did with Bari Weiss the first time when she talked about why Tulsi was "monstrous" but couldn't explain why (should sound familiar around here)
HellToupee
Footballguy
I’ve recently seen him described as an Oprah for dudes
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Anyone who is a meat eater and hunter who can sit down for a 2-3 hour conversation with a vegan and it not mostly end up arguing is a good host. I’ve also see him shut down the the hard core right politics by just saying we’re done discussing this as it’s boring to my audience, let’s move on.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
You think Bari looked foolish there? It just seemed to me she was unprepared to get into a detailed Tulsi discussion.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
Perhaps, but if I was going to call scoff and call someone a monster on a platform that large I'd at least be able to explain why
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
bolstering the endorsement of someone known for promoting transphobia, homophobia, Islamophobia, racism and misogyny,” MoveOn’s official Twitter account posted.
The bolded statement basically says that these people really don't listen to the show.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
This times 1000x. Agree with him or not, like wikkid said - he seems to be generally curious and tries to have fair conversation with people. There need to be more podcasts like this. I would be open to listening more from other sides of the aisle as well, but seems like others I have heard have been more on the yelling spectrum and/or talking over each other. Maybe it's the weed, but he at least has a calm conversation with people.
Dickies
Footballguy
The format of his show is what allows this more than anything. MSM outlets cant easily devote 3 hours to interview people
ren hoek
Footballguy
Agreed. I don't listen a ton as I usually don't have the time to commit to a full episode but I have admired his desire to try and get a broad spectrum of voices. Without really realizing it, his style of asking questions and trying to understand other voices is what I'd like to see here for the forum.wikkidpissah said:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yeah, there is a Bill Maher connection there too. The Harris-Affleck tiff was on Maher and Weiss has been a guest on Maher multiple times.
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Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Those that are upset about this are the same ones that dismiss male supporters of Sanders as just "Bernie Bros". They look at Rogan's guests, his work with MMA, and acting roles where he basically plays a bro, and judge him as just a "bro".
My mother was a dyed in wool liberal and loved watching Donahue. Between the age of 8-10, I missed a lot of school due to a bad combo of illnesses. When sick I would rule the TV from the couch most of the day, but at 9 AM (i think) mom had to watch Donahue. During those two years of sickness, I was introduced to Ayn Rand, David Duke, polyamory, white prode/kkk, etc. But most of what Donahue hosted was actors/authors/musicians pushing their own products.
Ain't much difference to me but the date and technology.
My mother was a dyed in wool liberal and loved watching Donahue. Between the age of 8-10, I missed a lot of school due to a bad combo of illnesses. When sick I would rule the TV from the couch most of the day, but at 9 AM (i think) mom had to watch Donahue. During those two years of sickness, I was introduced to Ayn Rand, David Duke, polyamory, white prode/kkk, etc. But most of what Donahue hosted was actors/authors/musicians pushing their own products.
Ain't much difference to me but the date and technology.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Does he have many of these people on in general?Juxtatarot said:
He's had Alex Jones on a couple times, but has been clear during the interview and in other interviews what he thinks about him and some of his far out ideas. Can't think of too many others he's had on that people would have a huge beef with besides Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Bari Weiss penned an oped about how Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein and Dave Rubin are intellectual renegades, which she coined the 'Intellectual Dark Web': https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/intellectual-dark-web.html
dkp993
Footballguy
Interesting article, thanks.
On a side note, it’s insane to me that believing there are “fundamental biological differences between men and women” puts you in the camp of “Intellectual renegades”. 2020 is a very interesting time to live in my internet friends.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
There's a good write up somewhere (New Yorker maybe?) that looks at Rogan's guests. It's informative.AAABatteries said:
ETA: It's The Atlantic. And it's a majority favorable profile IMO. But it does a good job of distilling why he gets the criticism too.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't know a ton about the other two, but the Sam Harris podcast is in my rotation and I would be pretty surprised if he thought of himself in that way.
ren hoek
Footballguy
I thought the way he demonized Islam on Maher’s show was pretty gross. But he probably is more selfaware than Weiss at least.
beer 30
Footballguy
If you are a regular listener to Rogan, he's been saying this since Bernie was on his show. That interview was in August and any time the election is discussed Joe pretty much leans hard toward Bernie. That said, he's had Tulsi Gabbard on and I'd be shocked if Andrew Yang doesn't make an appearance at some point. He's offered his forum to pretty much anyone to come on and discuss whatever.
I think Joe genuinely likes Bernie as more than a political figure and believes in what the Bern is selling. He just had Bill Maher on and discussed it a little more. Doesn't surprise me in the least Joe endorsed him. The woke folk are making more out of it than needs be but if you are a Bernie supporter I don't see how this isn't a huge uplift for you. He surged ahead in Iowa the day after this announcement. Think that happened because Bern ratcheted up the campaign trail? No, it was a couple million Rogan listeners.
Impact. In January 2015, the podcast was listened to by more than 11 million people. By October 2015, it had grown to acquire 16 million downloads a month. By April 2019 the podcast had 190 million downloads a month.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I guess I dont remember that and what was said. I know he speaks out against religion in general and thinks not all are the same (ie comes down harder on Islam), but not sure he says much that is false.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
he didn't. Harris was demonizing American liberals for tolerating some of Islam's highly illiberal doctrines, and Ben Affleck kneejerked all to hell about that being Islamophobic, which kinda made Harris's pointI guess I dont remember that and what was said. I know he speaks out against religion in general and thinks not all are the same (ie comes down harder on Islam), but not sure he says much that is false.
Skoo
Footballguy
I would also guess that Rogan's listeners are the exact demographic Bernie should be shooting for. Younger and more likely to be independent or at the very least more open-minded than the average voter.
There's no way it's not a good thing.
With the internet, someone somewhere is gonna be mad about anything so hard to put much stock in that IMO.
beer 30
Footballguy
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I read someone on Twitter a few days ago that said that Rogan and his audience live smack in the center of the triangle of Progressivism, Libertarianism, and Infowars.
Not sure how accurate that may or may not seem, but I found it food for thought.
Not sure how accurate that may or may not seem, but I found it food for thought.
ren hoek
Footballguy
What Harris did is paint an outsized portion of Islam’s billion or so followers as savage animals. He doesn’t mention any externalities that might cause a civilization to become radicalized, such as govt overthrows that have caused violence and backlash against western states going back to 1953. Terrorists just fall from the sky because of the Koran. This context is simply erased from history.
The truth is there were many prevalent moderates in Islamic society. Mossadegh himself was secular. We overthrew people like him, and replaced them with brutally repressive (but reliable) client states. Our friends in Saudi Arabia and other gulf states finance the most backwards, fundamentalist zealots to advance our imperial goals, and we’re ok with that.
It’s intellectually dishonest to pretend radicalization and extremism have nothing to do with 60+ years of meddling in the middle east. It’s no wonder neoconservatives like Weiss are so drawn to him. The war on terror ideology depends on it.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I certainly do.ren hoek said:
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Ah yes- the Affleck episode.
I always took Harris' point to be that liberals have to reconcile with the fact that they are simultaneously pushing for women/gay rights here but at the same time seemingly giving all religions a pass, even though some are anti-those same rights.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Where are you getting this from? I feel like he very much has addressed those points in various interviews and on his podcast.
rockaction
Footballguy
When did MoveOn become a centrist voice within the Democratic party?
When did a democratic socialist?
Trump will win if these are the norms.
When did a democratic socialist?
Trump will win if these are the norms.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
They are certainly on the left side of the party.
I don't know that Trump would win. Latest Fox News poll has Sanders leading Trump 48 - 42.
rockaction
Footballguy
Fair enough, and thanks for the link. I'm not link police, but that helps a lot. My thinking is that Trump's popularity concerns and the dissatisfaction with him and the country's direction may bring us a Sanders presidency, but I'd like to hear his radical ideals play in the general. I went a bridge too far with the Trump comment and was concentrating more on the first two parts about the Democratic Party as truthful, whereas the Trump comment was simply throwing my hands up in the air at the lurch leftward by the other party we depend on to bring us solidity -- solidity I don't think they're bringing us with the current spate of candidates.
My two cents.
Here are a bunch of head-to-head poll results: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/
I think these kinds of polls are worth very little this far out.
I also think it's fairly clear that, as of right now, Trump's chance against Sanders is better than Trump's chance against Biden. A lot could change, but I have a hard time imagining that Trump's chance against Sanders (or Warren) would be better than his chance against whoever's left standing between Biden, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg.
David Frum's latest column is about how Bernie can't win. It's obviously wrong if we take "can't" literally. But I do think that Bernie would probably be an underdog to Trump whereas Biden would be the favorite.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks @Maurile Tremblay It's a fascinating question isn't it?
I don't know enough about things to assume if what you said above would be the case, but let's assume it would be.
It really pushes the issue as to what is the real question and goal?
If electing the best president among the Democrats is the goal, would Sanders be a better president than Biden or Warren or Buttigieg or someone else?
vs.
If defeating Trump is the goal, would Sanders or Biden have a better chance?
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Nipsey
Footballguy
2004: Centrist John Kerry LOSES to a wildly unpopular incumbent.
2008: Barack Obama runs progressive campaign and WINS decisively.
2016: Centrist Hillary Clinton incomprehensibly LOSES to you know who.
2020: "...Bernie would probably be an underdog to Trump whereas Biden would be the favorite."
Thorn
Footballguy
Republicans sure love giving bad advice to Democrats about who they should nominate. Is it because they want them to lose or because they just want them to nominate Republicans under a different name?
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I am particularly amused by this line in there:
"The members of the team around Sanders are experts in Democratic Party factional infighting. Few have dealt with people who do not play by the rules of the mainstream Democratic Party. They have always been the rule breakers, the people who got inside the other team’s decision cycle."
Because I can go back 4 years ago and look at a long list of actual primary tampering by his girl Hillary
He does a couple of bits at the end of his "Trigered' special on Netflix about the Kardashians and Katalin/Bruce and Kanye that comes off as pretty transphobic, for sure.
Crazy that a guy can have a breakthrough experience on DMT and encounter otherworldly beings in another dimension and not be able to accept that someone can be a different gender inside than what their chromosomes manifest physically.
I mean, you can say it's just jokes, but when he does the Bill Hicks/Kinnison thing where he gets all worked up and screams at the top of his lungs about it, it's heartfelt.
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