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Has the cure become worse than the disease? (2 Viewers)

Has the cure become worse than the disease?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 23.3%

  • No

    Votes: 159 67.4%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 22 9.3%
  • Total voters
    236
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I don’t want America to fail and I don’t want a fully socialist regime but I am hopeful this experience will lead us on the path to single payer health care, a stronger safety net, and greatly diminished income inequality.  In BladeRunner’s eyes I think that counts as socialism.
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Also re-elevating expertise and competence, marginalizing troll/know-nothing culture and strengthening civic values.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Falsehood.  You made a post about the length of time he's been here which wasn't about the post he made
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Thank-you.  I had to put him on ignore because he was stalking me and also hammering my inbox with PMs.  The focus should be on the subject matter of the thread, not showing everyone how good of a board cop you can be.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Thank-you.  I had to put him on ignore because he was stalking me and also hammering my inbox with PMs.  The focus should be on the subject matter of the thread, not showing everyone how good of a board cop you can be.
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Ive deleted my posts as they were meant to be about your posts and people took them the wrong way.

But please stop spreading falsehoods about me...I did not hammer your inbox with PMs.  That is completely false...stop.

 
No.  It isn't.

I'm not really on this board anymore and don't have any intention of getting into a back and forth argument.  But the cure - saving lives by ceasing non-essential economic activity until we can get a real handle on keeping people alive - is not worse than the disease - killing people.

I know people want to talk about how an economic depression will kill people on a mass scale.  That's simply not borne out by studies on the reality of even the Great Depression.

We conducted descriptive analyses of trends and examined associations between annual changes in health indicators and annual changes in economic activity using correlations and regression models. Population health did not decline and indeed generally improved during the 4 years of the Great Depression, 1930–1933, with mortality decreasing for almost all ages, and life expectancy increasing by several years in males, females, whites, and nonwhites. For most age groups, mortality tended to peak during years of strong economic expansion (such as 1923, 1926, 1929, and 1936–1937). In contrast, the recessions of 1921, 1930–1933, and 1938 coincided with declines in mortality and gains in life expectancy. The only exception was suicide mortality which increased during the Great Depression, but accounted for less than 2% of deaths. Correlation and regression analyses confirmed a significant negative effect of economic expansions on health gains. The evolution of population health during the years 1920–1940 confirms the counterintuitive hypothesis that, as in other historical periods and market economies, population health tends to evolve better during recessions than in expansions.
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In other words, what you think will probably happen because it sounds right to you isn't the same as what will happen.  It isn't reality.  It's made up, much like "they're going to make your wives less safe in the bathroom" astroturfing against the Equal Rights Amendment.  And similar opposition to the Civil Rights movement.  And everything else opposed by this sort of coordinated effort to whip up opposition in order to preserve something for people of great wealth. 

And as suggested previously by @Lutherman2112 in the Government response thread, the protest "movement" is astroturfed, not some huge grassroots movement going on.

As far as I've been able to trace the statements made in this Reddit thread, the poster is correct.  These "against excessive quarantine" groups were overwhelmingly created by a few persons or groups, one significant one based it appears out of Jacksonville, from an address that belongs to a company offering to lease its machines, which it claims sterilizes N95 masks, to hospitals.  He is a Republican lobbyist named Michael Murphy.

The protesters here are not by and large the downtrodden masses looking for a way to make rent.  They are people literally holding signs saying they need a haircut or want to go golfing, driving expensive vehicles and screaming at counterprotesting nurses, as part of a coordinated movement created by wealthy, powerful people in order to convince others that the nation wants to get back to a dangerous situation to make them more money.

As a nation, we are still experiencing now on our best days more than the equivalent of a 9/11 ground zero number of deaths every two days.

There will be a second wave of this virus when restrictions are lifted.  And it may be terrible.  How terrible will in part be decided by how low we get these numbers before things reopen.  

Remember Singapore? How great their response was? Their second wave has hit. Let's try to avoid that here.
 

 
@Henry FordGood to see you back. Hope all is well with you and family. While we seldom agree on issues I really appreciate your posts. They usually give me something to think about. Hope you stick around.

 
rustycolts said:
@Henry FordGood to see you back. Hope all is well with you and family. While we seldom agree on issues I really appreciate your posts. They usually give me something to think about. Hope you stick around.
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Kind of you to say. Lovely to see you too. Not sticking around, but this entire concept - that the cure has become worse than the disease at this point - is dangerous, wrongheaded, and will kill a lot of people. The Boston Globe ran 16 pages of obituaries yesterday. The New Orleans Times-Picayune/Advocate ran 8. And this thing is just starting to really hit some of the more rural areas of the country.  
 

The time to stop it before mass economic damage was in February and very early March.  Our government bodies did not do that.  This is the consequence.  And mass deaths are not an acceptable tradeoff. 
  

 
Henry Ford said:
The time to stop it before mass economic damage was in February and very early March.  Our government bodies did not do that.  This is the consequence.  And mass deaths are not an acceptable tradeoff. 
  
Click to expand...


Except we aren't talking about "mass deaths"...not if handled responsibly.

Deaths are currently at the equivalent of a bad flu season right now.(not saying it is the flu)

The media has caused an unnecessary frenzy which will have long term negative impacts and consequences.  Staying at home and not working may seem great to everybody now...just wait until crime increases, medicare and social security are cut back,state and federal taxes are increased, police forces reduced, military cuts to the point where we can't adequately protect the world etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

It's going to get really bad and we are going to look back and wish we had opened earlier and accepted the risk.  If people want to shoot themselves in the foot...I guess it is what it is.  Glad I'm not one of them.

 
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TripItUp said:
Except we aren't talking about "mass deaths"...not if handled responsibly.

Deaths are at the equivalent of a bad flu season right now.(not saying it is the flu)
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While the overwhelming majority of the country is locked down. And over the period of a month.  In 30 days with everyone wearing gloves and masks and mostly not allowed to leave their homes we have the equivalent of a full bad flu season with no such precautions.  I can explain it, but I can't make people understand it.

Seacrest out.

 
Henry Ford said:
Kind of you to say. Lovely to see you too. Not sticking around, but this entire concept - that the cure has become worse than the disease at this point - is dangerous, wrongheaded, and will kill a lot of people. The Boston Globe ran 16 pages of obituaries yesterday. The New Orleans Times-Picayune/Advocate ran 8. And this thing is just starting to really hit some of the more rural areas of the country.  
 

The time to stop it before mass economic damage was in February and very early March.  Our government bodies did not do that.  This is the consequence.  And mass deaths are not an acceptable tradeoff. 
  
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03ZG1fBpc97Mipyy_ZSh5DSMUug_g%3A1587410448270&source=hp&ei=EPadXpezDpr0tAbQgbjQCg&q=deaths+from+coronavirus+in+us&oq=deaths&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgBMgUIABCDATICCAAyAggAMgIIADIFCAAQgwEyAggAMgUIABCDATICCAAyAggAMgIIADoECCMQJzoHCAAQgwEQQzoECAAQQ1DtClinEWD5LWgBcAB4AIABXIgB2gOSAQE2mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab

 
TripItUp said:
Except we aren't talking about "mass deaths"...not if handled responsibly.

Deaths are currently at the equivalent of a bad flu season right now.(not saying it is the flu)

The media has caused an unnecessary frenzy which will have long term negative impacts and consequences.  Staying at home and not working may seem great to everybody now...just wait until crime increases, medicare and social security are cut back,state and federal taxes are increased, police forces reduced, military cuts to the point where we can't adequately protect the world etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

It's going to get really bad and we are going to look back and wish we had opened earlier and accepted the risk.  If people want to shoot themselves in the foot...I guess it is what it is.  Glad I'm not one of them.
Click to expand...
You sure you don't want the free tickets?

 
Henry Ford said:
No.  It isn't.

I'm not really on this board anymore and don't have any intention of getting into a back and forth argument.  But the cure - saving lives by ceasing non-essential economic activity until we can get a real handle on keeping people alive - is not worse than the disease - killing people.

I know people want to talk about how an economic depression will kill people on a mass scale.  That's simply not borne out by studies on the reality of even the Great Depression.

In other words, what you think will probably happen because it sounds right to you isn't the same as what will happen.  It isn't reality.  It's made up, much like "they're going to make your wives less safe in the bathroom" astroturfing against the Equal Rights Amendment.  And similar opposition to the Civil Rights movement.  And everything else opposed by this sort of coordinated effort to whip up opposition in order to preserve something for people of great wealth. 

And as suggested previously by @Lutherman2112 in the Government response thread, the protest "movement" is astroturfed, not some huge grassroots movement going on.

As far as I've been able to trace the statements made in this Reddit thread, the poster is correct.  These "against excessive quarantine" groups were overwhelmingly created by a few persons or groups, one significant one based it appears out of Jacksonville, from an address that belongs to a company offering to lease its machines, which it claims sterilizes N95 masks, to hospitals.  He is a Republican lobbyist named Michael Murphy.

The protesters here are not by and large the downtrodden masses looking for a way to make rent.  They are people literally holding signs saying they need a haircut or want to go golfing, driving expensive vehicles and screaming at counterprotesting nurses, as part of a coordinated movement created by wealthy, powerful people in order to convince others that the nation wants to get back to a dangerous situation to make them more money.

As a nation, we are still experiencing now on our best days more than the equivalent of a 9/11 ground zero number of deaths every two days.

There will be a second wave of this virus when restrictions are lifted.  And it may be terrible.  How terrible will in part be decided by how low we get these numbers before things reopen.  

Remember Singapore? How great their response was? Their second wave has hit. Let's try to avoid that here.
 
Click to expand...
Please stay. There are good threads in the FFA, even if the PSF doesn't appeal anymore. Your contributions are one of the best things going on this board.

 
GoBirds said:
You missed the thread where there was a group of regulars in here saying they wanted a recession if it meant Trump wasn’t re-elected? Highly recommend digging that one up, quite the read. 
Click to expand...
We all missed it, because a group of regulars never said that.

 
GoBirds said:
You missed the thread where there was a group of regulars in here saying they wanted a recession if it meant Trump wasn’t re-elected? Highly recommend digging that one up, quite the read. 
Click to expand...
AOC pulled back the veil a little today when she celebrated the coming loss of jobs in the oil industry. Of course she quickly deleted the Tweet once someone informed her of what her joyous moment meant for tens of thousands.

"You absolutely love to see it! This along with record low interest rates means it’s the right time for a worker-led, mass investment in green infrastructure to save our planet.” - AOC in response to a tweet about oil prices falling to negative values.
Click to expand...
Shutting down the economy and more importantly, pushing to keep it closed, has unsurprisingly been a very convenient way to serve liberals need to grab power and push agendas. Rarely do we get such a transparent peek into people's real motivations. Thanks AOC!

 
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jon_mx said:
Must you continually talk about posters?  The mob mentality that must root out any opposition is annoying and I wish it would stop.  
Click to expand...
Constant complaining about this is another reason I try to stay away from the PSF, which is sad because we have a lot of smart people on FBGs.  

 
GoBirds said:
You missed the thread where there was a group of regulars in here saying they wanted a recession if it meant Trump wasn’t re-elected? Highly recommend digging that one up, quite the read. 
Click to expand...
I guess so.  Like I said, I've been in a few of the threads, mostly the gun one, but the PSF is just too much.  

 
Mr Anonymous said:
"You absolutely love to see it! This along with record low interest rates means it’s the right time for a worker-led, mass investment in green infrastructure to save our planet.” - AOC in response to a tweet about oil prices falling to negative values.
Click to expand...
Shutting down the economy and more importantly, pushing to keep it closed, has unsurprisingly been a very convenient way to serve liberals need to grab power and push agendas. Rarely do we get such a transparent peek into people's real motivations. Thanks AOC!
Click to expand...
In my office when someone's computer goes down and they need a new one, its usually the right time to upgrade them to the latest software and technology. They rarely get their old versions back because its a waste of time to go backwards. Sure, there's a learning curve and some production might suffer in the short term, but long term benefits outweigh the short term loses.

Just a small anecdote. Not sure why I thought of it.

 
The great depression lasted TEN YEARS, and people are whining about a quarantine that so far has lasted about 5 weeks.  Are we really that weak as a nation?

If businesses are failing after 5 weeks, then maybe they weren't very strong to begin with and it is good that they are going away.  Survival of the fittest, right? 

If you didn't get to Dave Ramsey's baby step that tells you to have an 3-6 month emergency fund, then it is your own fault you didn't pull yourself up by your bootstraps!

It seems that those themes are just dandy when we are talking about the poor.  But boy oh boy - when economic Darwinism starts to hit the middle class, it's time to grab your flag and your cute little red hat and hop in your pick-up to protest in the streets!

 
lakerstan said:
The great depression lasted TEN YEARS, and people are whining about a quarantine that so far has lasted about 5 weeks.  Are we really that weak as a nation?

If businesses are failing after 5 weeks, then maybe they weren't very strong to begin with and it is good that they are going away.  Survival of the fittest, right? 

If you didn't get to Dave Ramsey's baby step that tells you to have an 3-6 month emergency fund, then it is your own fault you didn't pull yourself up by your bootstraps!

It seems that those themes are just dandy when we are talking about the poor.  But boy oh boy - when economic Darwinism starts to hit the middle class, it's time to grab your flag and your cute little red hat and hop in your pick-up to protest in the streets!
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And yet guess what group of posters are doing the most whining about the shutdown.

 
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lakerstan said:
The great depression lasted TEN YEARS, and people are whining about a quarantine that so far has lasted about 5 weeks.  Are we really that weak as a nation?

If businesses are failing after 5 weeks, then maybe they weren't very strong to begin with and it is good that they are going away.  Survival of the fittest, right? 

If you didn't get to Dave Ramsey's baby step that tells you to have an 3-6 month emergency fund, then it is your own fault you didn't pull yourself up by your bootstraps!

It seems that those themes are just dandy when we are talking about the poor.  But boy oh boy - when economic Darwinism starts to hit the middle class, it's time to grab your flag and your cute little red hat and hop in your pick-up to protest in the streets!
Click to expand...
Exactly like their fearless (fearful) leader. Leading from the rear.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Wait....You're only sickened now?  How long have you been here? 

Do you have any words for the 3.5 years of sickening insults and disgusting comparisons made about Trump voters?
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yep, I'm not only a racist, but stupid.  cool stuff(groan).

caveat:  the latter does apply sometimes.

 
GoBirds said:
I don’t blame you, link above if you want to see it but I recommend saving the brain cells. 
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I poked in and looked at the question.   

IMO not even the same level.   Asking a bunch of people opposed to Trump if they would be willing to take 6months of a down economy vs. having him for 4 more years is probably going to turn out about how it did.  We have had recessions and been fine overall as a country.  

Not the same thing as claiming people are cheering for death or rooting against a cure for COVID.  

 
jon_mx said:
And how many times have you called out Sho Nuff?  It is the lack of self-policing by the side which has over 85 percent of the posters that feeds the mob.  Instead of self-policing there are usually likes.  
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As many times as those you have called out who agree with your viewpoint.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
I poked in and looked at the question.   

IMO not even the same level.   Asking a bunch of people opposed to Trump if they would be willing to take 6months of a down economy vs. having him for 4 more years is probably going to turn out about how it did.  We have had recessions and been fine overall as a country.  

Not the same thing as claiming people are cheering for death or rooting against a cure for COVID.  
Click to expand...
Your bias was already clear, I understand that and expect the excuse. It’s exactly what was stated, I’m not going to stop you from making excuses for that behavior it’s norm here. 

 
jon_mx said:
And how many times have you called out Sho Nuff?  It is the lack of self-policing by the side which has over 85 percent of the posters that feeds the mob.  Instead of self-policing there are usually likes.  
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Not even talking to you.  Again, I am not in here a ton, so I dont have a history with many posters besides the handful that were in the gun thread.  

In my limited experience I would say for sure the board leans left, but I find the "mob" posts silly.  Just as predictive it would be that a certain group of posters would agree with and like an anti-Trump comment, it's just as predictable that a similar number would like and agree with a comment by you or go birds.  

 
GoBirds said:
Your bias was already clear, I understand that and expect the excuse. It’s exactly what was stated, I’m not going to stop you from making excuses for that behavior it’s norm here. 
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I guess I am part of the mob.  Is there a store open where I can grab a pitchfork quick? 

 
Henry Ford said:
Kind of you to say. Lovely to see you too. Not sticking around, but this entire concept - that the cure has become worse than the disease at this point - is dangerous, wrongheaded, and will kill a lot of people. The Boston Globe ran 16 pages of obituaries yesterday. The New Orleans Times-Picayune/Advocate ran 8. And this thing is just starting to really hit some of the more rural areas of the country.  
 

The time to stop it before mass economic damage was in February and very early March.  Our government bodies did not do that.  This is the consequence.  And mass deaths are not an acceptable tradeoff. 
  
Click to expand...
A infectious disease expert from the University of Michigan Medical Center was on the local news a couple of weeks ago and stated the we would have had to shutdown totally in late December or early January to prevent this, even then we would have had an outbreak but it would have been much smaller, after that is was too late.  Even late last year hospitals are looking back and may have had many Corona cases that were diagnosed as the flu.  It was spreading silently for sure.

Hope all of us and our children survive this era.

 
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jon_mx said:
And how many times have you called out Sho Nuff?  It is the lack of self-policing by the side which has over 85 percent of the posters that feeds the mob.  Instead of self-policing there are usually likes.  
Click to expand...
I believe we were asked not to self police.  Please drop the personal comments about me.

 
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