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Mail-in voting thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I believe it’s illegal- maybe not on your end, but the person “buying” your vote would be violating the law I believe.
The short answer is that unlike campaign spending by corporations and unions and gerrymandering (with some limitations), selling your vote or buying someone else’s is illegal under federal law. A lot of states have their own laws prohibiting vote buying or selling as well. It’s a form of voter fraud. Reasonable people can disagree about whether individuals and companies spending millions of dollars to encourage voters to support a particular cause or candidate is "buying" an election. Whatever your thoughts on the Citizens United ruling, voters still get to cast their own ballots and make their own choices. But literally paying someone to vote for a particular candidate or issue continues to be a bridge too far in American politics.
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crackattack
Footballguy
crackattack
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Nothing, other than the fact that you would go to prison if caught.crackattack said:
crackattack
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Well why not simply murder all the opposing voters then? What’s your point? It’s a felony. That would stop most people from selling/buying votes, but apparently not you I guess.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Just a little bit of information that this article or the media isn’t mentioning about, specifically the letter sorting machines, official name is Delivery Bar Code Sorter (DBCS) machines. These machines are being removed at a lot of the mail processing distribution centers which is true. However, the remaining DBCS machines are being extended in length to allow for more mail to be able to be processed on the remaining machines. The facility I worked at had 12 machines remaining (10 years ago we had 24), they are removing 3 DBCS machines but extending the remaining machines around 25%, from around 250 sorting stackers to over 300.Workhorse said:
This is actually a smart move by postal headquarters. Financially it’s a huge money saver, less workers needed to process the same amount of mail. The union is fighting management right now to get an additional employee staffed on each of these machines due to the added number of stackers for the employee to sweep. Even if management agrees to allow 1 additional employee on each DBCS, it still is saving a lot of $$$, because it used to take 4 employees to do what is being done now by 2 (3 if an additional sweeper is agreed to). When we first started using these machines years ago they had I believe 186 bins, now they have over 300 bins. This is the hardest job to perform for clerks at the mail processing facilities. I tried to include a link to give an idea what these machines look like.
DBCS Machines
Red Hot Tamales
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Yea, this is a ridiculous argument. We can't have mail in voting because someone might sell their vote? If the threshold of whether or not we should allow someone to do something is the likelihood that someone may commit a crime, well...I am not sure we would do much of anything in this country. And even so, the likelihood of someone buying/selling their vote is so far down the list of possibilities. I mean, how much would some devioius Biden or Trump supporter pay to alter one person's vote? And if you say that it could be done on a mass scale, there is zero chance that anyone would get away with it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
How did we get to a point where people can straight face argue against mail-in voting when there is a pandemic? Shouldn't States be making sure it is as easy as possible for voters to cast their votes safely- particularly senior citizens and those in poor health? That seems like something that should have broad support.
The Commish
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
In Michigan last year they sent everyone an application for a mail in ballot. Republicans are trying to stop this practice as well. I’m not sure what the law is but I know in some places you can’t send everyone a ballot automatically but you can send everyone an application for a mail in ballot.
The General
Footballguy
It’s simple. Trump believes mail-in is bad for him. So he is going to try and wreck it.
Therefore Trump folks have to defend him doing this.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Do you believe there are fraud issues with mail-in ballots?
You left that part out of your stance here.
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John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
The Commish
Footballguy
There's no legit (statistical or logical) reason to believe it, but I am sure some do....anything to keep the fear factor alive and well. I mean, Trump even said that it's ok (in his state). The best part of this fraud angle is every recent "fraud" event has been implemented by the GOP. I guess they don't trust themselves? Congrats...they DO have something in common with everyone else. Baby steps.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I’ve been a letter carrier for two decades and I’ve never had or heard a complaint about a mail-in ballot. Also, the idea that the postal service couldn’t handle the ballots is a joke. I’ve carried mail through everything. Blizzards, hurricanes, pitch darkness, pandemics, whatever. We get the job done.
The General
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I would never eat a Big Mac so your math is fake news sorry not sorry.
jm192
Footballguy
This.
Trump as a Republican president is viewed as the top of the Republican food chain. A lot of people can't separate being Republican/Conservative and supporting everything Trump does. When Trump does something, they decide they're supposed to support it. Otherwise, are you even conservative bro?!
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Not enough to warrant potentially limiting the voting capabilities of American citizens who are at risk during a pandemic. No different than protecting the Constitutional right to have a fun despite the fact some will use the guns illegally. We have to protect the Constitutional rights of voters regardless of what criminals may do.
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Finding someone to buy your mail in ballot would be difficult. What would you hoping to get, $100? Why would anyone even mess around for anything less ? But at the same time who would pay that much? Where would you think you could find a buyer? On Craigslist?crackattack said:
The Commish
Footballguy
And as the people who CAN separate them jump ship this becomes more and more true...it's self fulfilling. On this very forum a guy who is anti-abortion, wants to apply the immigration laws we already have, wants to balance the budget and thinks that rule of law is a real thing is labeled a "liberal" because of this very thing. It's bizarro world.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I've been doing some clothes shopping on line this morning and I'm getting messages that there may be a delay in receiving my order. I emptied my cart and moved on. Add Prana's loss of a sale to the list of consequences from Trump sabotaging the USPS in order to steal the election.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
And their talking points on this are all over the place. Generally they try to argue that states are sending everyone ballots, sometimes multiple ballots. When in fact, what is happening is applications for ballots are being sent
El Floppo
Footballguy
I used to vote by mail when I was in college (felt more attuned to local politics where I grew up than where I went to college).
One year, either my dad forgot to send it, or I forgot to return it... so he ended up forging my signature and vote.
it got caught. don't remember the exact outcome, but IIRC, I got a nasty bit of mail saying the vote was fraudulent as the signature didn't match and the vote wasn't counted. I called the feds on my dad and he served 8-10 at lompoc.
I made up one part of that.
One year, either my dad forgot to send it, or I forgot to return it... so he ended up forging my signature and vote.
it got caught. don't remember the exact outcome, but IIRC, I got a nasty bit of mail saying the vote was fraudulent as the signature didn't match and the vote wasn't counted. I called the feds on my dad and he served 8-10 at lompoc.
I made up one part of that.
Green Balloons
Footballguy
So the odds of getting really sick and possibly dying from covid is exponentially higher.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so demand voting process to chance, demand billions for that change and if someone disagrees that equals dismantling ?The Commish said:Given that it's funding a solution to help with the pandemic yes? Why wouldn't I? It's better than pork in a bill isn't it? Notice NONE of my questions were really answered in any meaningful way
fascinating way to look at thing ... truly
The Commish
Footballguy
Not close to what I'm saying, but you know that. I didn't even use the word "dismantle". That's all you. I simply pointed out that a bill has been sitting on McConnell's desk for months when you attempted to put the delay solely on the Democrats and then got sucked into the nonsense....you'd think I'd have learned by now. And still, none of my questions to you answered in any meaningful way. Trying to lead by example here....you'll notice I've answered all your questions thus far...would be nice if you followed suit.
Can you explain why you have issue with funding to address an aspect of the pandemic being in a pandemic bill? I understand why one might have an issue with funding a federal building that has nothing to do with the pandemic being tied to a pandemic bill. That sort of pork type stuff should be frowned upon.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
"I didn't even use the word "dismantle". That's all you. "
That was actually another user on this forum, but you know that. CNN has reported for days Trump's (using words like) dismantling / undermining /stealing / suppressing in association with USPS and upcoming vote - do you not read CNN every day ?
Sure a bill has been sitting there - one that benefits the goals and agenda of the Democrats :(
you know it, I know it
That was actually another user on this forum, but you know that. CNN has reported for days Trump's (using words like) dismantling / undermining /stealing / suppressing in association with USPS and upcoming vote - do you not read CNN every day ?
Sure a bill has been sitting there - one that benefits the goals and agenda of the Democrats :(
tens of billions for the USPS to give Democrats a voting edge in Nov election isn't anything to do with a pandemic or helping people - its 100% about helping them
you know it, I know it
Green Balloons
Footballguy
Allowing Americans their constitutional right to vote, during a pandemic, is now giving "democrats a voting edge". So sad what this country has become.
The Commish
Footballguy
I didn't use the term and I couldn't tell you what our mainstream media is saying, so there's no reason to use the term when asking me a question. I don't know how many times I have to tell you that I don't consume our mainstream media in any meaningful way. There's no question that the bill written up by the House is what they want to have just like the Senate wrote a bill for the things they'd like to see. It's completely dishonest to pin this on one party when both are behaving the same way. That's what I pointed out to you.
The money they want is to provide another avenue for voting during the pandemic. I don't personally believe that it necessarily has to be by mail. States can extend early voting. They can open more locations. They can do things by mail....that doesn't really matter to me...take your pick of the three or choose all three. Ultimately, I want as many people voting as possible because that's how things are supposed to work. So, any time I see anyone trying to prevent that (regardless of circumstance) it raises red flags for me. However, I can't remember a time where the Dems introduced bill specifically focused on boosting vote by mail prior to this election. Can you? It stands to reason that if a GOP state can take the position of "we need to have in person teaching in our schools as an option so parents can choose what's best for their family" then a GOP state would be open to the position "we need to have mail in voting as an option for voting if people choose to protect themselves during this pandemic". That would be consistency on full display.
So, if I am reading your words correctly, the reason you don't want the federal government to help states provide multiple options for the electorate is because it will hurt the GOP. Tell me how that is morally (or logically) better than Dems wanting it because it will help them? You're displaying the exact same behavior that the Dems in terms of motivation. You're focused on your party over the electorate. I'd put down the stones if I were you.
The issue you seem to have here is knowing that the more people vote, that generally means that it's going to help the Dems. Have you ever stopped to think maybe the best thing to do is for the GOP to make themselves more appealing to voters so that is no longer the case? Granted, that's the tougher thing to do given the makeup of the GOP and it's support, but the right thing is rarely the easy thing.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's likely true the dems get an edge....that should make any logical person pause and say, "hmmm....maybe I need to switch things up a bit"....that it's about party over the Constitution is the problem I have. It's gross and pretty unAmerican.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Well if Tyler Zed says so...seriously...who is that guy and why should I care about anything he posts or watch any of his videos at all?
Tactical Turtleneck
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I think it's time to sum up the thread thus far. I've heard two (relatively) cogent thoughts here in this thread that seem to be the driving force behind the mail boogeyman:
1. Sending out ballots to everyone is bad.
2. Chain of custody / corruption angle.
Good news is, you'll be pleasantly surprised, I agree with #1. That's not a good idea. The bad news is, I know of two states that plan on taking this approach and neither are battleground states believed to mean much of anything. So yeah, with #1 the opportunity is there. It's statistically meaningless, but it's there nonetheless.
With #2, every single concern I've heard thus far ( for vote by mail) exists in going to a polling place today and voting. NO ONE is entering their data directly into the databases used to tabulate the votes...NO ONE. I find the selective concern annoying and humorous all at the same time. What has happened to our critical thinking skills in this country?
1. Sending out ballots to everyone is bad.
2. Chain of custody / corruption angle.
Good news is, you'll be pleasantly surprised, I agree with #1. That's not a good idea. The bad news is, I know of two states that plan on taking this approach and neither are battleground states believed to mean much of anything. So yeah, with #1 the opportunity is there. It's statistically meaningless, but it's there nonetheless.
With #2, every single concern I've heard thus far ( for vote by mail) exists in going to a polling place today and voting. NO ONE is entering their data directly into the databases used to tabulate the votes...NO ONE. I find the selective concern annoying and humorous all at the same time. What has happened to our critical thinking skills in this country?
See...that's the funny part.sho nuff said:
It's not Tyler Zed saying it. He's pointing it out....and backing everything up with proof.
Once again...ignore the message....attack the messenger.
Try something different....try debunking the evidence.
It's old...really old.
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dkp993
Footballguy
Please explain how giving people easier access to vote gives Democrats a “voting edge”.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well, id have to get past another Trump ad and the tyler guy to get to the message. Within seconds it was clear he wasn't worth watching.
And when your messengers are consistently bad...the message is lost.
Evidence?
