What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

The fall of the CDC (1 Viewer)

JAA

Footballguy
I really enjoyed the article and reporting:  https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc

Full disclosure, the site is recognized as left-leaning but credible fact check

This is my favorite line

If the outbreak had been a movie, this would have been the scene where the heroine mobilizes an all-star squad of specialists to save the planet. Schuchat’s team is seen as among the top infectious disease experts in the world. All of them had started out in the CDC’s Epidemic Intelligence Service, an elite corps of globetrotting disease fighters. They were a brain trust forged by decades of defending the country from outbreaks.

 
This is a very good article. It's long but worth the read. My "favorite" section is probably.....

"Butler, an infectious disease specialist with more than three decades of experience, seemed the ideal person to lead the effort. Trained as one of the CDC’s elite disease detectives, he’d helped the FBI investigate the anthrax attacks, and he’d led the distribution of vaccines during the H1N1 flu pandemic when demand far outstripped supply

But days earlier, Butler and his team had suddenly found themselves on President Donald Trump’s front burner when the president began publicly agitating for churches to reopen. That Thursday, Trump had announced that the CDC would release safety guidelines for them “very soon.” He accused Democratic governors of disrespecting churches, and deemed houses of worship “essential services.”

Butler’s team rushed to finalize the guidance for churches, synagogues and mosques that Trump’s aides had shelved in April after battling the CDC over the language. In reviewing a raft of last-minute edits from the White House, Butler’s team rejected those that conflicted with CDC research, including a worrisome suggestion to delete a line that urged congregations to “consider suspending or at least decreasing” the use of choirs.

On Friday, Trump’s aides called the CDC repeatedly about the guidance, according to emails. “Why is it not up?” they demanded until it was posted on the CDC website that afternoon.

The next day, a furious call came from the office of the vice president: The White House suggestions were not optional. The CDC’s failure to use them was insubordinate, according to emails at the time.

Fifteen minutes later, one of Butler’s deputies had the agency’s text replaced with the White House version, the emails show. The danger of singing wasn’t mentioned.

Early that Sunday morning, as Americans across the country prepared excitedly to return to houses of worship, Butler, a churchgoer himself, poured his anguish and anger into an email to a few colleagues.

“I am very troubled on this Sunday morning that there will be people who will get sick and perhaps die because of what we were forced to do,” he wrote.

It really draws into clear focus the threat Trump recently made that if Biden wins he will listen to the scientists during a health crisis. Say what you want about spending or tax cuts or even Roe v Wade ..... but if there is another health crisis during the next four years can you in good conscience vote for someone that has already freely admitted that he WILL NOT listen to the scientists? And proven it, time and time again.

 
What is the actual law here? With the various Executive Branch power grabs of the last 30 years, i can't be sure but i did not think the President had actual powers over the departments and agencies other than to hire & fire administrators according to his wishes & disappointments and desire to achieve a result. Does a President have the power to override protocol & procedure except by specific Executive Order?

 
60 minutes piece last Sunday showed cdc officials in Atlanta letting a plane filled with covid infected us citizens from a cruise ship just leave the airport.  They all went home then infected family members, friends etc.   I suppose this was trumps fault too..  just stop with everything is trumps fault stuff because it rings hollow..

 
60 minutes piece last Sunday showed cdc officials in Atlanta letting a plane filled with covid infected us citizens from a cruise ship just leave the airport.  They all went home then infected family members, friends etc.   I suppose this was trumps fault too..  just stop with everything is trumps fault stuff because it rings hollow..
I tend to agree

 
60 minutes piece last Sunday showed cdc officials in Atlanta letting a plane filled with covid infected us citizens from a cruise ship just leave the airport.  They all went home then infected family members, friends etc.   I suppose this was trumps fault too..  just stop with everything is trumps fault stuff because it rings hollow..
Things like that happened at the beginning of the pandemic and mostly out of his control. It’s everything after that has been horrible. Just because there were mistakes made at the beginning doesn’t mean that he’s free of criticism from everything that came after.

 
Things like that happened at the beginning of the pandemic and mostly out of his control. It’s everything after that has been horrible. Just because there were mistakes made at the beginning doesn’t mean that he’s free of criticism from everything that came after.
Perhaps you’re missing the point of this thread.  It’s that cdc hasn’t fallen because of trump.  I just gave you and everyone an example of the inept of cdc that had nothing to do with trump.  Watch the piece then  please the get back to me.  The people on the plane were in shock cdc let them go and they all knew they were infected.  

 
Nope, not all Trump's fault that the CDC fell on its face numerous times during this crisis.  But the Trump admin's meddling in the work of scientists and experts certainly made things much worse. 

 
Perhaps you’re missing the point of this thread.  It’s that cdc hasn’t fallen because of trump.  I just gave you and everyone an example of the inept of cdc that had nothing to do with trump.  Watch the piece then  please the get back to me.  The people on the plane were in shock cdc let them go and they all knew they were infected.  
Yes the CDC has made a lot of mistakes. If you want the commentary to remain about the CDC then maybe you should leave out ‘I suppose this was Trump’s fault too...’

 
Yes the CDC has made a lot of mistakes. If you want the commentary to remain about the CDC then maybe you should leave out ‘I suppose this was Trump’s fault too...’
I’m responding to previous posters who are blaming trump for the fall of cdc...

 
Perhaps you’re missing the point of this thread.  It’s that cdc hasn’t fallen because of trump.  I just gave you and everyone an example of the inept of cdc that had nothing to do with trump.  Watch the piece then  please the get back to me.  The people on the plane were in shock cdc let them go and they all knew they were infected.  
Did the CDC say that Covid would go away in April, with the warmer weather?

Did the CDC say, “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”?

Did the CDC say that Covid is, “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”?

Did the CDC say, “99%” of COVID-19 cases are totally harmless."?

Did the CDC lie about the US having the lowest covid mortality rate in the world?

Did the CDC claim that the US was “rounding the corner” in the fight against covid?

Did the CDC claim in March that we would have a vaccine to fight covid "very soon"?

This nonsense that the CDC got everything wrong and poor Trump did the best that he could has absolutely got to stop.

 
Did the CDC say that Covid would go away in April, with the warmer weather?

Did the CDC say, “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”?

Did the CDC say that Covid is, “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”?

Did the CDC say, “99%” of COVID-19 cases are totally harmless."?

Did the CDC lie about the US having the lowest covid mortality rate in the world?

Did the CDC claim that the US was “rounding the corner” in the fight against covid?

Did the CDC claim in March that we would have a vaccine to fight covid "very soon"?

This nonsense that the CDC got everything wrong and poor Trump did the best that he could has absolutely got to stop.
I never said cdc got everything wrong.  Everyone made mistakes trump, cdc, governors etc especially in the beginning.  We didn’t have a road map with this pandemic.  

 
stlrams said:
I never said cdc got everything wrong.  Everyone made mistakes trump, cdc, governors etc especially in the beginning.  We didn’t have a road map with this pandemic.  
Are you honestly trying to say that the CDC has made as many mistakes and bald face lies about Covid than trump?

This whole, "Ah shucks, there are billions of people that think the world is a sphere but there are a few hundred that thinks the earth is flat.... so, how can we ever really know the truth!? There are both sides".... is the weakest argument that there is. It's right up there with, "But, but, what about the CHILDREN!?". The CDC hasn't made the right call on everything and has made a FEW mistakes and trump has lied and been wrong at nearly every turn.... that DOES NOT mean "well, we all got it wrong". 

Can you list some instances when the CDC knowingly lied about covid or "joked" that Americans should take steps to fight Covid that might kill them?

 
Are you honestly trying to say that the CDC has made as many mistakes and bald face lies about Covid than trump?

This whole, "Ah shucks, there are billions of people that think the world is a sphere but there are a few hundred that thinks the earth is flat.... so, how can we ever really know the truth!? There are both sides".... is the weakest argument that there is. It's right up there with, "But, but, what about the CHILDREN!?". The CDC hasn't made the right call on everything and has made a FEW mistakes and trump has lied and been wrong at nearly every turn.... that DOES NOT mean "well, we all got it wrong". 

Can you list some instances when the CDC knowingly lied about covid or "joked" that Americans should take steps to fight Covid that might kill them?
Please re-read what I said because I never said cdc lied, even once. I said cdc made mistakes.  But cdc and Fauci lied for weeks about the importance of wearing a mask.  Fauci even admitted this fact on 60 minutes interview I believe.  You obviously hate trump and can’t take a step back, objectively review everything and come up with a rationale conclusion other then it’s trump fault.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please re-read what I said because I said cdc lied, even once. I said cdc made mistakes.  But cdc and Fauci lied for weeks about the importance of wearing a mask.  Fauci even admitted this fact on 60 minutes interview I believe.  You obviously hate trump and can’t take a step back, objectively review everything and come up a rationale conclusion other then it’s trump fault.  
:goodposting:

 
Please re-read what I said because I said cdc lied, even once. I said cdc made mistakes.  But cdc and Fauci lied for weeks about the importance of wearing a mask.  Fauci even admitted this fact on 60 minutes interview I believe.  You obviously hate trump and can’t take a step back, objectively review everything and come up a rationale conclusion other then it’s trump fault.  
I'm willing to give Trump and CDC/Fauci passes for early on - lots of unknowns and confusion.  Why is Trump still making mask wearing a political thing?  Just this week he mocked a reporter's mask (again) and he's holding numerous rallies while not requiring masks and not social distancing.  Can you objectively review everything and come up with a rationale conclusion that he doesn't know what he's doing and is endangering people with this behavior? 

 
I'm willing to give Trump and CDC/Fauci passes for early on - lots of unknowns and confusion.  Why is Trump still making mask wearing a political thing?  Just this week he mocked a reporter's mask (again) and he's holding numerous rallies while not requiring masks and not social distancing.  Can you objectively review everything and come up with a rationale conclusion that he doesn't know what he's doing and is endangering people with this behavior? 
Yes- I believe there’s two reasons why Trump doesn’t wear a mask in public frequently.  He wants to project strength/invincibility and secondly he’s reckless. 

 
Yes- I believe there’s two reasons why Trump doesn’t wear a mask in public frequently.  He wants to project strength/invincibility and secondly he’s reckless. 
I said it before but Covid could have helped Trump if he just stayed out of his own way.  I may be wrong but I don't think people would have blamed him for the economy - I wouldn't.  And he could have united us against a common enemy.  I think there's a good chance he would be even or ahead in the polls right now if he did. 

 
I said it before but Covid could have helped Trump if he just stayed out of his own way.  I may be wrong but I don't think people would have blamed him for the economy - I wouldn't.  And he could have united us against a common enemy.  I think there's a good chance he would be even or ahead in the polls right now if he did. 
I agree 100% but he can’t help himself..

 
Yes- I believe there’s two reasons why Trump doesn’t wear a mask in public frequently.  He wants to project strength/invincibility and secondly he’s reckless. 
So he's egotistical and foolish, and he's occupying the seat of better men who could actually lead a nation effectively. 

 
No, they had already come and gone. 2016 pitted the two worst possible candidates I've ever seen and Gary Johnson, who I voted for.
I can agree with you on that, Gary Johnson would be a great option. Hard to believe that 3rd party didn’t gain momentum this time around. Is there even a 3rd party option? Even with limited funding you would think anyone that made an effort could draw significant interest. Another missed opportunity. 

 
I can agree with you on that, Gary Johnson would be a great option. Hard to believe that 3rd party didn’t gain momentum this time around. Is there even a 3rd party option? Even with limited funding you would think anyone that made an effort could draw significant interest. Another missed opportunity. 
That's how bad Trump has been. I voted for a mainstream candidate exactly once since I turned 18 in 2003(Bush in 04), choosing to back the Libertarian candidate each time, until this year, when I voted Biden, because he chose the apparently radical leftist stance of listening to people who have successfully studied diseases and pandemics and choosing to follow their advice. 

Now to get back on topic, I don't know why the CDC has had so much trouble, but politics has zero place in disease control anyway.

 
That's how bad Trump has been. I voted for a mainstream candidate exactly once since I turned 18 in 2003(Bush in 04), choosing to back the Libertarian candidate each time, until this year, when I voted Biden, because he chose the apparently radical leftist stance of listening to people who have successfully studied diseases and pandemics and choosing to follow their advice. 

Now to get back on topic, I don't know why the CDC has had so much trouble, but politics has zero place in disease control anyway.
You voted  Biden because there isn’t even a 3rd party option, let’s be honest. 
 

Your last statement would be nice if true, sadly this has become very political and its not just the side you are against....far from it. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You voted  Biden because there isn’t even a 3rd party option, let’s be honest. 
 

Your last statement would be nice if true, sadly this has become very political and its not just the side you are against....far from it. 
I voted Biden because Trump is that bad at his job. If a 3rd party put up a viable option, I'd rather vote for it.

On that second statement, I agree, which is why I said what I said. It's a disease, eliminate it. Find something else to argue over later.

 
You voted  Biden because there isn’t even a 3rd party option, let’s be honest. 
 

Your last statement would be nice if true, sadly this has become very political and its not just the side you are against....far from it. 
Why can't his statement, "I voted Biden, because he chose the apparently radical leftist stance of listening to people who have successfully studied diseases and pandemics and choosing to follow their advice."

THAT wasn't a political stance until very recently. Maybe reading a thermometer had been turned into a political stance(coincidentally by the same people) but I never thought that listening to life-long health experts during a health crisis had been debatable in the past unless you were getting your healthcare advice from Jenny McCarthy. 

 
One year ago:

Joe Biden @JoeBiden
We are not prepared for a pandemic. Trump has rolled back progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. We need leadership that builds public trust, focuses on real threats, and mobilizes the world to stop outbreaks before they reach our shores.

4:32 PM · Oct 25, 2019

Link
 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Things like that happened at the beginning of the pandemic and mostly out of his control. It’s everything after that has been horrible. Just because there were mistakes made at the beginning doesn’t mean that he’s free of criticism from everything that came after.
Perhaps you’re missing the point of this thread.  It’s that cdc hasn’t fallen because of trump.  I just gave you and everyone an example of the inept of cdc that had nothing to do with trump.  Watch the piece then  please the get back to me.  The people on the plane were in shock cdc let them go and they all knew they were infected.  
For posterity, do we believe 60 minutes is quality reporting and unbiased?  Just want to make sure we agree they are not #fakenews

 
Are you honestly trying to say that the CDC has made as many mistakes and bald face lies about Covid than trump?

This whole, "Ah shucks, there are billions of people that think the world is a sphere but there are a few hundred that thinks the earth is flat.... so, how can we ever really know the truth!? There are both sides".... is the weakest argument that there is. It's right up there with, "But, but, what about the CHILDREN!?". The CDC hasn't made the right call on everything and has made a FEW mistakes and trump has lied and been wrong at nearly every turn.... that DOES NOT mean "well, we all got it wrong". 

Can you list some instances when the CDC knowingly lied about covid or "joked" that Americans should take steps to fight Covid that might kill them?
Please re-read what I said because I never said cdc lied, even once. I said cdc made mistakes.  But cdc and Fauci lied for weeks about the importance of wearing a mask.  Fauci even admitted this fact on 60 minutes interview I believe.  You obviously hate trump and can’t take a step back, objectively review everything and come up with a rationale conclusion other then it’s trump fault.  
I can agree that the CDC has made mistakes.  Is that really a point?

They have also been undermined and basically dismantled by this administration.  That.s the point.

 
Yes- I believe there’s two reasons why Trump doesn’t wear a mask in public frequently.  He wants to project strength/invincibility and secondly he’s reckless. 
I said it before but Covid could have helped Trump if he just stayed out of his own way.  I may be wrong but I don't think people would have blamed him for the economy - I wouldn't.  And he could have united us against a common enemy.  I think there's a good chance he would be even or ahead in the polls right now if he did. 
This is what I would have liked to see.  Let the CDC work through this on their own merits.  That didnt happen, there was/is tremendous meddling and posturing.  Now we will never know what the real issue is.

 
I can agree that the CDC has made mistakes.  Is that really a point?

They have also been undermined and basically dismantled by this administration.  That.s the point.
This is true.  Scary thing is the CDC is just one of several departments that this administration has ruined by trying to make them suit the admin's politicization.  (EPA and the Justice Department stick largely in my mind, among others).

 
I can agree that the CDC has made mistakes.  Is that really a point?

They have also been undermined and basically dismantled by this administration.  That.s the point.
Yes - because to bolt, it’s all trumps fault...

 
Whose role has it been the last 4 years to fund and empower the CDC?
Exactly.  The CDC has a lot of great scientific minds.  But they've been grossly under resourced and it didn't just start with the Trump administration.  It's been that way for a while.  

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA

Users who are viewing this thread

Top