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Capella

2020-21 NBA Thread: Danny Ainge just sitting there, still contemplating that big move

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In Brad We Trust

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This is the year the Clippers finally get over the hump.

 

 

 

 

:oldunsure:

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Sixers trading Tobias Harris to the Knicks with a 2nd round pick or 2, send Big Al to Kings for Buddy Heild, and prepare to lure Giannis to Philadelphia as a free agent with Morey, Doc and Elton Brand in the room. :stirspot:

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8 hours ago, modogg said:

Sixers trading Tobias Harris to the Knicks with a 2nd round pick or 2, send Big Al to Kings for Buddy Heild, and prepare to lure Giannis to Philadelphia as a free agent with Morey, Doc and Elton Brand in the room. :stirspot:

Yeah, giannis-simmons-embiid seems like it would totally solve all of the issues...

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I read a rumor that free agency has pretty much been decided.  ("Tampering" is a joke still.)  Do you believe it?  I think it's plausible.

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51 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I read a rumor that free agency has pretty much been decided.  ("Tampering" is a joke still.)  Do you believe it?  I think it's plausible.

What do you mean decided?  Like all the free agents have talked to all the teams already and agreed to deals in principle?

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I would think that with most of the players and executives all being in one place for a few months, this was somewhat inevitable.

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27 minutes ago, Ty Webb said:

What do you mean decided?  Like all the free agents have talked to all the teams already and agreed to deals in principle?

Well probably not "all" but a lot.

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How about this trade:

tobias harris

al horford

josh richardson

matisse thybulle

some draft capital

for

bradley beal

john wall

Salaries should match up ok ($75 for Sixers, $70 for wiz)

 

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Just now, Ty Webb said:

How about this trade:

tobias harris

al horford

josh richardson

matisse thybulle

some draft capital

for

bradley beal

john wall

Salaries should match up ok ($75 for Sixers, $70 for wiz)

 

i'd be sad to see Matisse leave, but that deal would certainly be a win for the Sixers. Washington gets some good pieces and can build a culture with Al and Tobias there too. this one seems way too heavy in the Sixers favor, but it would be fun. I just know with Morrey there we will likely see a trade or 2 before the season. will be tough going into the season with this same exact squad

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If Washington deals Beal, wouldn't they want to fully rebuild and get better draft assets than the 76ers have to offer?

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6 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

If Washington deals Beal, wouldn't they want to fully rebuild and get better draft assets than the 76ers have to offer?

 

17 minutes ago, modogg said:

i'd be sad to see Matisse leave, but that deal would certainly be a win for the Sixers. Washington gets some good pieces and can build a culture with Al and Tobias there too. this one seems way too heavy in the Sixers favor, but it would be fun. I just know with Morrey there we will likely see a trade or 2 before the season. will be tough going into the season with this same exact squad

I guess it’s too heavy for the sixers, but I assume that the wall contract is the worst in the league (I guess Westbrook and Wiggins are also contenders).

i realize that harris and horford are not positive value, but I don’t think that they are nearly as bad as wall.

wall is probably like $110 million of bad value.  Harris is something like $70 and horford is maybe like $25 (considering the partial guarantee).

but I do have a hard time figuring out what Washington really wants.

Seems like adding horford, thybulle and Richardson Would really upgrade the wiz defense and still be a competent offense. 

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With all of the trade rumors, it will be an uncomfortable season if the Sixers are unable to move Horford, and to a lesser extent Richardson and/or Tobias (who I think they want to keep, but who needs to move to the 4).

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Hard to see many of these teams wanting to take on salary with the shrinking cap, stars who don't want to play 72 games, and luxury tax implications without knowing if they will even have fans attending the games.  I think we are going to see a lot of bad contract for bad contract swaps that barely move the needle.

Sure would love to see my Magic do......something.  Something to bring some enthusiasm to the blandest playoff team you ever saw.  And to think we had the fifth highest salary 19/20 is crazy.  There is essentially no player on this team that I enjoy watching play.  Probably the closest is T Ross about one of every ten games goes on a heat check for a quarter.  That's it.

The Gordon contact is a true asset since it decreases in value going forward about 2 mil per year, might be able to get something decent back for that.  Hell of an athlete but damn frustrating to watch him on the court.

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6 minutes ago, flranger said:

Hard to see many of these teams wanting to take on salary with the shrinking cap, stars who don't want to play 72 games, and luxury tax implications without knowing if they will even have fans attending the games.

Sounds like they are going to keep the cap at $109 Million and Tax Line at $132 Million.

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d'antoni joining Brooklyn staff as an assistant

Nash and D'antoni cooking again (with a side of Amare)

will certainly be interesting, if nothing else.

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23 hours ago, Ty Webb said:

i realize that harris and horford are not positive value, but I don’t think that they are nearly as bad as wall.

 

They aren't as bad as Wall, but that's a pretty wild deal considering like 3 of the worst 5-7 contracts in the league are getting moved in the same transaction.

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1 hour ago, thecatch said:

They aren't as bad as Wall, but that's a pretty wild deal considering like 3 of the worst 5-7 contracts in the league are getting moved in the same transaction.

I don’t know that horford is quite in that range, but I have started to think more about just how bad the Tobias deal is.

i think that horford can still contribute meaningfully to a lot of teams.  Harris is more or less a floor raiser who doesn’t even get the floor that high

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@Capella  Can you clean this up?  Philly trades are the best trades.

Edited by Sammy3469

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Only 9 more moths of cheering for Joakim Noah's dead cap stretch!

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Ready for a full season of Luka's march to his first MVP.

(Subject to change during the season.)

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On 10/30/2020 at 12:47 PM, thecatch said:

They aren't as bad as Wall, but that's a pretty wild deal considering like 3 of the worst 5-7 contracts in the league are getting moved in the same transaction.

So I was thinking about this more and took a look at the top 50 nba contracts in terms of total value and then broke down number of years left, number of years after an age 29 and grouped 20 that seemed like they were in the running for the worst contracts (basically anyone with 3 or more years remaining who was above a certain age, as well as Chris Paul and Blake griffin) and I assigned an approximate dollar value per year Of what I would say that each is really worth.  Then I multiplied that by the number of years left.

number 1 was John wall.

number 2 was Tobias Harris.

:sadbanana:

so yeah...

i think that horford’s deal is arguably as low as 15th-worst, but it really depends on how you prioritize.  If you weight the next couple of years a lot more than the total contract length, then he is probably only behind Westbrook, Wiggins, love, and maybe vucevic.

So I will have to agree that horford and Harris in two of the top 7 worst contracts in the league.

horford plus something for love, anyone?

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On 10/29/2020 at 9:45 AM, Ty Webb said:

How about this trade:

tobias harris

al horford

josh richardson

matisse thybulle

some draft capital

for

bradley beal

john wall

Salaries should match up ok ($75 for Sixers, $70 for wiz)

 

Pass if I'm Washington, unless more teams are involved & all the draft capital heads their way.

You deal Beal, you're in full rebuild. Not adding the likes of Tobias/Horford.

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4 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Pass if I'm Washington, unless more teams are involved & all the draft capital heads their way.

You deal Beal, you're in full rebuild. Not adding the likes of Tobias/Horford.

I get it, but to be fair, Washington’s perpetual goal just seems to be any playoff seed

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12 hours ago, Ty Webb said:

So I will have to agree that horford and Harris in two of the top 7 worst contracts in the league.

Haven't looked into it but without looking Horford would most definitely be in my top 7 (and probably contender for my worst given his age and inability to be anything but a center at this stage). 

Everytime I watch Theiss and Time Lord this past year, only thought I had was wow did Boston dodge a bullet. 

Good for Horford. Jmo if he's a free agent this offseason coming out of Boston, I think he's getting somewhere between 1/3-1/2 the annual salary he is now. 

Philly's in a terrible position. Bunch of bloated contracts of frontline players thatve got many years left on deals. I'm sure they can move Embiid or Simmons and get a return. I don't know who or why anyone would touch Horford. I question if anyone would take Tobias off Philly's hands if even they floated him out there as a 'free agent' more or less given future uncertainty of cap. Tobias isn't and never will be a guy you can build around

 

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Per reports, Wiseman hoping to avoid being selected by Minnesota :lol: 

Don't think you have anything to worry about there buddy.

I'd definitely pass on him too if Golden State (assuming keep pick). Charlotte seems like the perfect place for him. He can go average 20/10 on a 15 win team year in year out.

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29 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Don't think you have anything to worry about there buddy.

I'd definitely pass on him too if Golden State (assuming keep pick). Charlotte seems like the perfect place for him. He can go average 20/10 on a 15 win team year in year out.

Apparently the Wolves are wary of Anthony Edwards. So that leaves Ball? I guess they could trade down or out too.
 

 

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Time to dust off my Martin/Scola trade machine hat for the first time. 
 

Are the vultures circling the cheap rockets owner post-Morey?

Knicks get - Harden and take on Eric Gordon’s contract

Rockets get - Barrett, Robinson, Frankie Smokes,  Randle, Ellington

 

Knicks would need to add $1.7m to make this work. I forget, can they add the Marcus Morris trade exemption?  If not, they could add Bullock, swap Payton for Nkitina, or swap Portis for Ellington.  Can’t tell on espn trade machine but aren’t some of the knicks contracts not fully guaranteed?

 

If you think this ones bad, wait until you see what I cook up for the Lakers. Green/Kuzma are the new Martin/Scola!

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1 minute ago, Yo Mama said:

Time to dust off my Martin/Scola trade machine hat for the first time. 
 

Are the vultures circling the cheap rockets owner post-Morey?

Knicks get - Harden and take on Eric Gordon’s contract

Rockets get - Barrett, Robinson, Frankie Smokes,  Randle, Ellington

 

Knicks would need to add $1.7m to make this work. I forget, can they add the Marcus Morris trade exemption?  If not, they could add Bullock, swap Payton for Nkitina, or swap Portis for Ellington.  Can’t tell on espn trade machine but aren’t some of the knicks contracts not fully guaranteed?

 

If you think this ones bad, wait until you see what I cook up for the Lakers. Green/Kuzma are the new Martin/Scola!

You can’t add trade exceptions.

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Elton Brand apparently signed a multi-year extension in Philadelphia so there's that

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51 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

Time to dust off my Martin/Scola trade machine hat for the first time. 
 

Are the vultures circling the cheap rockets owner post-Morey?

Knicks get - Harden and take on Eric Gordon’s contract

Rockets get - Barrett, Robinson, Frankie Smokes,  Randle, Ellington

 

Knicks would need to add $1.7m to make this work. I forget, can they add the Marcus Morris trade exemption?  If not, they could add Bullock, swap Payton for Nkitina, or swap Portis for Ellington.  Can’t tell on espn trade machine but aren’t some of the knicks contracts not fully guaranteed?

 

If you think this ones bad, wait until you see what I cook up for the Lakers. Green/Kuzma are the new Martin/Scola!

Yeah that won’t happen but also thibs and harden seems like a horrific marriage.

knicks would definitely need to throw in some firsts for that

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1 minute ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Yeah that won’t happen but also thibs and harden seems like a horrific marriage.

knicks would definitely need to throw in some firsts for that

Yeah I forgot to add the knicks 1st rounder this year in there. Good point about Thibs/Harden. 

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According to @ryenarussillo, it’s the “worst kept secret in the NBA” that Devin Booker already wants out of Phoenix.

OMG IT'S HAPPENING

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Booker to MIN, Hayward to PHX, and Johnson, Okogie, and Culver to BOS works. 

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On 11/1/2020 at 2:32 PM, Juxtatarot said:

Apparently the Wolves are wary of Anthony Edwards. So that leaves Ball? I guess they could trade down or out too.
 

 

If they pass on Edwards, I'd most definitely go Ball/Deni if them.

I wouldn't take Wiseman in the top 2. Particularly if the Warriors keep the pick. I think he's got a lot of work to do offensively. His immediately impact, if any, on a good team will be defensively early. JMO The Warriors can get similar production out of a couple bigs during their remaining championship window. Maybe add a vet big ring chasing on the cheap to play whatever minutes Green/etc.. leave behind.. Personally I don't see the fit for him having a prominent role anytime soon with that offense. Particularly with his lack of positional versatility. Warriors will have a ton of options involving pick 2, I just don't see any of them involving them taking Wiseman. I guess I'll believe it when I see it if they take Wiseman. 

While the Hornets will/are in prime position to grab a him/another big, wouldn't be really surprised if Okongwu went before him either. Given his issues at Memphis and his reported "refusal to go MN", I think it's very possible, maybe not likely, he drops a bit in the draft. 

Draft's in 2 weeks BTW :)

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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8 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

If they pass on Edwards, I'd most definitely go Ball/Deni if them.

I wouldn't take Wiseman in the top 2. Particularly if the Warriors keep the pick. I think he's got a lot of work to do offensively. His immediately impact, if any, on a good team will be defensively early. JMO The Warriors can get similar production out of a couple bigs during their remaining championship window. Maybe add a vet big ring chasing on the cheap to play whatever minutes Green/etc.. leave behind.. Personally I don't see the fit for him having a prominent role anytime soon with that offense. Particularly with his lack of positional versatility. Warriors will have a ton of options involving pick 2, I just don't see any of them involving them taking Wiseman. I guess I'll believe it when I see it if they take Wiseman. 

While the Hornets will/are in prime position to grab a him/another big, wouldn't be really surprised if Okongwu went before him either. Given his issues at Memphis and his reported "refusal to go MN", I think it's very possible, maybe not likely, he drops a bit in the draft. 

Draft's in 2 weeks BTW :)

That #1 pick will be in Phoenix. 

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12 hours ago, Frostillicus said:

According to @ryenarussillo, it’s the “worst kept secret in the NBA” that Devin Booker already wants out of Phoenix.

OMG IT'S HAPPENING

Has there been a less inspiring “big 3” than Russell, Booker, and KAT?

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9 minutes ago, thecatch said:

Has there been a less inspiring “big 3” than Russell, Booker, and KAT?

Do you know how fun that would be to watch?

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is all this huffing about when the NBA will start again really being Lebron's decision just sports media hype?  assuming, yes, but he does seem to have an outsized say in how things work these days for right or wrong.

i mean, there are thousands and thousands of people who would be impacted by the NBA start date.. it's insane to think that one guy could say "nah, i'm tired from the playoffs... i know half the league hasn't played basketball since March and people are hemorrhaging money, but i need some time off to clear my head here" and the NBA PA and league office are just like "yeah, ok, tell us when you want to play again and we'll go with that."

right??

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5 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

is all this huffing about when the NBA will start again really being Lebron's decision just sports media hype?  assuming, yes, but he does seem to have an outsized say in how things work these days for right or wrong.

i mean, there are thousands and thousands of people who would be impacted by the NBA start date.. it's insane to think that one guy could say "nah, i'm tired from the playoffs... i know half the league hasn't played basketball since March and people are hemorrhaging money, but i need some time off to clear my head here" and the NBA PA and league office are just like "yeah, ok, tell us when you want to play again and we'll go with that."

right??

Sounds like they are ready to agree to the pre-christmas start and 72-game schedule actually.  

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18 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

If they pass on Edwards, I'd most definitely go Ball/Deni if them.

I wouldn't take Wiseman in the top 2. Particularly if the Warriors keep the pick. I think he's got a lot of work to do offensively. His immediately impact, if any, on a good team will be defensively early. JMO The Warriors can get similar production out of a couple bigs during their remaining championship window. Maybe add a vet big ring chasing on the cheap to play whatever minutes Green/etc.. leave behind.. Personally I don't see the fit for him having a prominent role anytime soon with that offense. Particularly with his lack of positional versatility. Warriors will have a ton of options involving pick 2, I just don't see any of them involving them taking Wiseman. I guess I'll believe it when I see it if they take Wiseman. 

While the Hornets will/are in prime position to grab a him/another big, wouldn't be really surprised if Okongwu went before him either. Given his issues at Memphis and his reported "refusal to go MN", I think it's very possible, maybe not likely, he drops a bit in the draft. 

Draft's in 2 weeks BTW :)

I've become really skeptical of Deni.  Not super athletic and has questionable shooting potential with a sub 60% free throw percentage.  His strength is suppose to be playmaking but is a team really going to let him be a main ballhandler?  I can understand taking a chance on him in the mid/late lottery but I'd certainly pass in the top 5.  

Edited by Juxtatarot
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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I've become really skeptical of Deni.  Not super athletic and has questionable shooting potential with a sub 60% free throw percentage.  His strength is suppose to be playmaking but is a team really going to let him be a main ballhandler?  I can understand taking a chance on him in the late lottery but I'd certainly pass in the top 5.  

Fair.  I don't think he'll be asked to be the main ball handler many/any spots (including MN) anytime soon. He's more than capable of being a secondary one...with great size/floor spacing and shooting ability. Where he separates in today's NBA, for me, to Wiseman.

I think Deni will go Top 5 personally. I think it's more likely Wiseman falls out of Top 5 than Deni. I think he'd be a better fit on Golden State than Wiseman. Wiseman offensive game needs work. I don't see the fit in GS championship window.....they can easily grab a more offensively versatile big looking for ring on the cheap that'll give them the 10-20 mpg.

Wiseman's best spot probably is a winning team like GS long term.......I just don't believe Wiseman is GS's fit. I'm sure Wiseman could be a 15-20 and 10 guy pretty soon on a 15-20 win Charlotte team. Just so so so many better complimentary players than Wiseman for Golden State right now (whether in draft or trading pick). Is Deandre Jordan/Hasaan Whiteside/James Wiseman the difference in Golden State in the next couple years? Resounding no from me.

He's got a lot of work to do offensively to become anything resembling Chris Bosh whom I've seen some comparisons to.

-----------------------

Edit: The hardest transition, by far, even in today's NBA is for a big man. Going from being so physical overwhelming....against other kids. To playing against men. Disregards the deemphasis on low post bigs in NBA (Wiseman doesn't have the versatility right now to be more than that)

Sure I can see Charlotte wanting him.....they're desperate for any possible face of franchise. I want to see how he deals with adversity myself. 

Offensively he's nowhere close to KAT's class (defense he's already better than KAT....as in, he actually plays on that)........and we're still waiting for KAT to do anything to propel his team in the playoffs. Except the one year where Jimmy Butler carried him and the typical other crap that's in MN to the playoffs.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL
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My tiers:

1. Edwards.

2. Wiseman.

3. Ball, Hayes, Halliburton, Okungwu

4. Avdija, Toppin, Okoro

 

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