The whole NFL players in NBA debate going on... (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

I think many of the NBA players would struggle more than expected if they were to step on an NFL field...but not nearly as much as NFL players would struggle in the NBA.

The original question is…present state, how many players could swap sports and make the others professional roster.

Even as the end of the bench scrub that never sees the court, I’d guess not one single active NFL player makes an NBA roster. (For arguments sake in original post I said 3, but I don’t really even believe that)

But there is a 100% chance that, at minimum (likely much more), 5 NBA players make an NFL roster at a legit position (not K, P or special teams).

Anybody who disagrees with this is delusional.

There’s no doubt this is true. It’s just basic math. Literally any random person has a better chance of making an NFL team than an NBA team.

 

[Instinctive]

I know I’m way late here and maybe it’s been assessed but:

- Why do we care that nobody is tall enough to jam Wemby in the chest? Wouldn’t jamming him in his groin and leg be even more effective at limiting his movement?

- Teams don’t usually carry guys who play such a specific role as is being described for Wemby. He would need to play special teams.

Yes, all the Wemby tight end takes are equally as bad as the "this 5'7" WR would be an amazing defender" takes.

Wemby would be split in half and/or just get put on his *** most plays.

The guys you're really looking for are NBA guard defenders who would almost certainly make really good safeties, TEs, lots of receivers, some Sherman style corners, and some linebackers. Almost no line play, maybe you get some RBs, there would certainly be a couple QBs (we had a guy on Stanford when I coached who I think was the top football recruit in the state of Minnesota as a 4-star QB and he was a PF and all conference - he didn't really have NBA talent, and I think he was a bit too big for a good football frame, but that guy was BUILT. Could totally have been one of the basketball to NFL TE guys if he wanted)...I doubt you get very many lineman on either side of the ball.

But even limiting to just the remaining playoff teams there are (at least) 2 guys on each who could translate to the NFL.

There list of possible NFL positions to go to NBA is much shorter: it's corners and receivers, tight ends, defensive ends, and maybe RBs who would stand a chance with NBA-style athleticism at the right size. For example, OL often have the footwork and bulk to be a good center, but lack the requisite height at that bulk, so they end up with a bit less quickness and explosiveness than would be needed.

And when you get to the positions with the right kind of athleticism, your size profiles are often all wrong. Way more corners are sub 6 feet than 6'2+, which is really about what you need to be at for the smallest NBA positions (exceptions to rules exist, but those exceptions aren't gonna be guys who played football most their lives lol). Same for RBs. WRs are definitely the most likely to be able to quickly translate, second place is probably the leaner defensive ends moving to PF spots.

 

[offdee]

Yes, all the Wemby tight end takes are equally as bad as the "this 5'7" WR would be an amazing defender" takes.

Wemby would be split in half and/or just get put on his *** most plays.

How about some Giannis takes instead?

 

[Bri]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

 

[Instinctive]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

I'd maybe buy that college kids give more effort (although it's still a bit old man yells at clouds for me). But better overall? Not even close. College kids are in the wrong spots all the time, it's a constant battle. And the significant athleticism gap is also really important. And that doesn't account for how the massive gap in offensive skills makes that defense much harder to play in the NBA.

Beyond that, it's like people extrapolate games against the wizards in december to competitive games that matter, which is also a little ridiculous on its face.


It's also a little odd to call out the Thunder tonight when their opponent is the #1 defense in the NBA since March.

 

[offdee]

And the significant athleticism gap is also really important. And that doesn't account for how the massive gap in offensive skills makes that defense much harder to play in the NBA.

This is really what the difference is. The reality is that many NBA players are simply unguardable. No matter what you do they will score anyways.

 

[Tau837]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

The best offensive players in the world play in the NBA. How many college defenders ever face a player like SGA? Djokovic? Edwards? Towns? Luka? Kyrie? Tatum? I could list 50 players better than any offensive player who must be defended in college. And when they do rarely face any of them, it is typically just for one college freshman year... they are obviously better as they mature and gain experience at the NBA level.

The rules are different. The rules in today's NBA clearly favor the offense to a degree that doesn't exist in college.

Obviously, NBA teams play 82 game regular seasons and then up to 28 more playoff games. That is twice as many or more than college teams, and every game is 48 minutes, not 40. They play more games per week, including back to back games, which are never scheduled in college outside of tournment settings. A lot more effort is required in the NBA, since you chose to criticize effort.

Beyond that, the sophistication of NBA defense is much greater than college. And the average NBA player has a better understanding of defensive positioning, help, etc.

There is just no basis whatsoever for your assertions about NBA defense vs. college defense. Let's put it this way. How often is it that a college player enters the NBA and is immediately a top defender? It almost never happens.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

This is a weird debate. The NBA players size/speed/athleticism combo is insane.

Most NFL players would kill to be able to play in the NBA. Close to zero NBA players would rather play in the NFL.

Long career, huge guaranteed contracts, less major injuries, etc.

 

[offdee]

Most NFL players would kill to be able to play in the NBA

NFL players want to be NBA players. NBA players want to be rappers.

 

[Bri]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

The best offensive players in the world play in the NBA. How many college defenders ever face a player like SGA? Djokovic? Edwards? Towns? Luka? Kyrie? Tatum? I could list 50 players better than any offensive player who must be defended in college. And when they do rarely face any of them, it is typically just for one college freshman year... they are obviously better as they mature and gain experience at the NBA level.

The rules are different. The rules in today's NBA clearly favor the offense to a degree that doesn't exist in college.

Obviously, NBA teams play 82 game regular seasons and then up to 28 more playoff games. That is twice as many or more than college teams, and every game is 48 minutes, not 40. They play more games per week, including back to back games, which are never scheduled in college outside of tournment settings. A lot more effort is required in the NBA, since you chose to criticize effort.

Beyond that, the sophistication of NBA defense is much greater than college. And the average NBA player has a better understanding of defensive positioning, help, etc.

There is just no basis whatsoever for your assertions about NBA defense vs. college defense. Let's put it this way. How often is it that a college player enters the NBA and is immediately a top defender? It almost never happens.

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

You mentioned the rules which are essentially team D concepts versus one on one (help) concepts. The difference is enormous.

It's a valid point that NBA players are better and harder to defend.

There isn't more effort in the NBA than college. Stripped down it's I've got an area and follow that guy. We can go into more detail but man to man D is between the man and the ball. It's literally coached as moving less to be a midpoint.

 

[JShare87]

I agree with most of what has been said. Much easier for NBA players to transition to NFL. However, the whole “niche” WR or offensive weapon for special situations is understandable until you have to deal with roster spots. Although 53 may seem like a lot of spots, I'm not sure there's ever been a player or players that just offer one skill or a “niche” taking up a roster spot for that.
Most players like that are forced to play special teams as well. Not sure how Wemby would do on the punt or kickoff team. Pretty fun debate though.

Bottom line is, there's a reason NBA players play basketball and a reason NFL players play football. They are the elite of the elite at that sport. Saying one group could go to the other no problem is a bit disrespectful imo.

 

[the moops]

The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

1. It is easier to play solid defense against terrible offensive players. College teams are made up of plenty of guys that aren't particularly good at shoot/pass/dribble
2. The NBA game is 20% longer than the college game
3. It seems you don't actually watch NBA games. That's fine, but I suggest watching these playoffs if you want to see defensive effort

 

[offdee]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

The best offensive players in the world play in the NBA. How many college defenders ever face a player like SGA? Djokovic? Edwards? Towns? Luka? Kyrie? Tatum? I could list 50 players better than any offensive player who must be defended in college. And when they do rarely face any of them, it is typically just for one college freshman year... they are obviously better as they mature and gain experience at the NBA level.

The rules are different. The rules in today's NBA clearly favor the offense to a degree that doesn't exist in college.

Obviously, NBA teams play 82 game regular seasons and then up to 28 more playoff games. That is twice as many or more than college teams, and every game is 48 minutes, not 40. They play more games per week, including back to back games, which are never scheduled in college outside of tournment settings. A lot more effort is required in the NBA, since you chose to criticize effort.

Beyond that, the sophistication of NBA defense is much greater than college. And the average NBA player has a better understanding of defensive positioning, help, etc.

There is just no basis whatsoever for your assertions about NBA defense vs. college defense. Let's put it this way. How often is it that a college player enters the NBA and is immediately a top defender? It almost never happens.

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

You mentioned the rules which are essentially team D concepts versus one on one (help) concepts. The difference is enormous.

It's a valid point that NBA players are better and harder to defend.

There isn't more effort in the NBA than college. Stripped down it's I've got an area and follow that guy. We can go into more detail but man to man D is between the man and the ball. It's literally coached as moving less to be a midpoint.

Look at it this way. You put present state Luka Doncic (for example) on any lower level D1 college team and he’s taking that team deep into the NCAA Tournament…if not wining it all. And likely averaging 40pts+ triple double a game. Who cares if the college effort is there, nobody in college is stopping a player like that. It’s just a completely different level.

 

[Tau837]

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

With all due respect, the fact that you think this substantiates your take proves the point that there is no basis.

Even if you limit your college basketball sample to NCAA Division 1, there are 352 teams. If they each use all 13 scholarships, that is 4,576 players, not including walk ons. That is a spectrum of age from ~17 to ~23 and experience from 1st year to 5th year players. As @the moops pointed out, the average college basketball player is not nearly as good offensively as the average NBA player... it isn't remotely close, so comparing game scores doesn't make sense.

On top of that, it has already been pointed out that rules favor offense more heavily in the NBA, and you admit the difference is enormous. Yet you seem to ignore that difference by comparing college and NBA game scores.

It has also been pointed out that the games are longer. And there is a 24 second shot clock in the NBA, compared to a 30 second shot clock in college. Both of things drive more possessions and more points.

Most importantly, I challenge you to watch some of the ongoing NBA playoff games and report back that you still believe college basketball players are better defensively.

 

[Bri]

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

With all due respect, the fact that you think this substantiates your take proves the point that there is no basis.

Even if you limit your college basketball sample to NCAA Division 1, there are 352 teams. If they each use all 13 scholarships, that is 4,576 players, not including walk ons. That is a spectrum of age from ~17 to ~23 and experience from 1st year to 5th year players. As @the moops pointed out, the average college basketball player is not nearly as good offensively as the average NBA player... it isn't remotely close, so comparing game scores doesn't make sense.

On top of that, it has already been pointed out that rules favor offense more heavily in the NBA, and you admit the difference is enormous. Yet you seem to ignore that difference by comparing college and NBA game scores.

It has also been pointed out that the games are longer. And there is a 24 second shot clock in the NBA, compared to a 30 second shot clock in college. Both of things drive more possessions and more points.

Most importantly, I challenge you to watch some of the ongoing NBA playoff games and report back that you still believe college basketball players are better defensively.

Your lack of common decency or ordinary respect has been prevalent in each of your replies.
You don't understand point counterpoint.
I'm going to put you on ignore.
Take care and best of luck to you

 

[Bri]

The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

1. It is easier to play solid defense against terrible offensive players. College teams are made up of plenty of guys that aren't particularly good at shoot/pass/dribble
2. The NBA game is 20% longer than the college game
3. It seems you don't actually watch NBA games. That's fine, but I suggest watching these playoffs if you want to see defensive effort

Now everyone in college is terrible and I didn't see SGA foul last night

 

[the moops]

The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

1. It is easier to play solid defense against terrible offensive players. College teams are made up of plenty of guys that aren't particularly good at shoot/pass/dribble
2. The NBA game is 20% longer than the college game
3. It seems you don't actually watch NBA games. That's fine, but I suggest watching these playoffs if you want to see defensive effort

Now everyone in college is terrible and I didn't see SGA foul last night

Yes, college players in general are terrible offensive players compared to the NBA. And that is not a knock on them, it's just a reality.

 

[Bri]

NBA defense is boxing out, putting a hand up and fake effort type run towards a three. If your man has the ball you're to bump him or reach for it and then let him go when he gets near the hoop.

Have you always felt this way, or were you a fan of the defensive efforts given in the 90's?

It definitely comes and goes. There's certainly individuals I appreciate watching their efforts regardless of decade

But collectively. It seems you insinuate that defenses today are terrible and they give little effort

Yes

This is a horrible set of takes from someone who knows a lot abut football and clearly knows little to nothing about basketball. This may be a chance to learn from some folks, Bri.

I was fortunate to experience a lot of basketball in my life and play til I was 30. It's entirely possible, I would be very open to being wrong and overconfident here.

No one's replying with any context at all to even have a discussion. I got a smiley as a counter point.

There's an absolute ton of articles criticizing the lack of defense in the NBA. It's not like I'm on an island here.

The young Thunder should play some defense tonight and I'll enjoy it. There's some correlation to age of NBA players and the quality of the defense they play. I notice it. I enjoy it, but there's an annoying nuisance watching a poor effort

The best offensive players in the world play in the NBA. How many college defenders ever face a player like SGA? Djokovic? Edwards? Towns? Luka? Kyrie? Tatum? I could list 50 players better than any offensive player who must be defended in college. And when they do rarely face any of them, it is typically just for one college freshman year... they are obviously better as they mature and gain experience at the NBA level.

The rules are different. The rules in today's NBA clearly favor the offense to a degree that doesn't exist in college.

Obviously, NBA teams play 82 game regular seasons and then up to 28 more playoff games. That is twice as many or more than college teams, and every game is 48 minutes, not 40. They play more games per week, including back to back games, which are never scheduled in college outside of tournment settings. A lot more effort is required in the NBA, since you chose to criticize effort.

Beyond that, the sophistication of NBA defense is much greater than college. And the average NBA player has a better understanding of defensive positioning, help, etc.

There is just no basis whatsoever for your assertions about NBA defense vs. college defense. Let's put it this way. How often is it that a college player enters the NBA and is immediately a top defender? It almost never happens.

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

You mentioned the rules which are essentially team D concepts versus one on one (help) concepts. The difference is enormous.

It's a valid point that NBA players are better and harder to defend.

There isn't more effort in the NBA than college. Stripped down it's I've got an area and follow that guy. We can go into more detail but man to man D is between the man and the ball. It's literally coached as moving less to be a midpoint.

Look at it this way. You put present state Luka Doncic (for example) on any lower level D1 college team and he’s taking that team deep into the NCAA Tournament…if not wining it all. And likely averaging 40pts+ triple double a game. Who cares if the college effort is there, nobody in college is stopping a player like that. It’s just a completely different level.

Luka's team would win it all or do as well as you say, no doubt.
I don't think he'd get 40 per game. He's got his moments of getting his but he's often a selfless great teammate.
In this scenario, I imagine college defenses are going to trap him and he'd keep making them pay by hitting the open man. I'd have him with gaudy assist numbers moreso than points.

This seems to be the constant disagreement here. I prefer team defense and y'all are replying with offensive success. No one else is discussing actual NBA one on one defense which is the opposite of team defense.

I do see the counterpoint of "offense scores if defense is doing a poor job" that's been made but yet when I point out a 50ish average ppg difference all the replies are that that solely constitutes offensive success and not defense.

 

[the moops]

No one else is discussing actual NBA one on one defense which is the opposite of team defense.

Defensive schemes these days are highly sophisticated. One on one defense is the single hardest thing for defenses to rely on, because of the skill of the offense. So you see constant doubles, hedges, blitzes, switches, zones, drops, traps, etc. When team defenses break down, you see layups and wide open threes.

 

[Instinctive]

No one else is discussing actual NBA one on one defense which is the opposite of team defense.

Defensive schemes these days are highly sophisticated. One on one defense is the single hardest thing for defenses to rely on, because of the skill of the offense. So you see constant doubles, hedges, blitzes, switches, zones, drops, traps, etc. When team defenses break down, you see layups and wide open threes.

Yeah I don't really understand the point here. NBA 1 on 1 defense is better, and NBA team defense is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

You could take a team of the best 2 players on the top 10 college teams, put them against a couple of end of bench guys from each NBA team, and the NBA guys would absolutely smother the college team. College players are CONSTANTLY in the wrong place on defense, but offenses mostly don't take advantage. College defenses are relatively simple to break with either scheme or skill, but again, college players are not executing well and often lack the requisite skill. Defense and offense are linked.

The full court press, for example, isn't something NBA teams do. Not because they're lazy, but because players are way too skilled and breaking a press is super easy. NBA players can execute that scheme far better than any college team. That's why you'll see full court pressure, or an attempt at chaos for a possession or two, mostly focused on wearing a guy down for 48 minutes, or wasting shot clock time.

Or look at defensive 3 seconds. You have to "two point nine" on both offense and defense. On offense, you're trying to time your driving action so it happens right when the opposing big has to dip to one side of the lane or the other to avoid the call, and on defense you're relying on your big as the backline to funnel to, and/or you're icing the action, or hedging enough for the perimeter guy to stick to a ballhandler who's likely to snake a screen far more effectively than anyone in college ever has.

You also have to account for, as much as we complain, how much dramatically better officiating is in the NBA. A lot of crap you can get away with in college with your hands and hitting guys, and restricting things, and the number of uncalled just hacks at the rim...and it makes college defenses look better than they are too. Low scoring =/= good defense.

Maybe I suck at coaching (we did miss the tourney all 3 seasons) but I coached a Pac12 team and then went into the NBA for a bit. It's not even close how much better the worst NBA players are, especially at picking up concepts like team defense and staying in concert on a string with each other.

 

[Tau837]

No basis?
The difference in scoring of an average game is 68 in college and 114 in the NBA.

With all due respect, the fact that you think this substantiates your take proves the point that there is no basis.

Even if you limit your college basketball sample to NCAA Division 1, there are 352 teams. If they each use all 13 scholarships, that is 4,576 players, not including walk ons. That is a spectrum of age from ~17 to ~23 and experience from 1st year to 5th year players. As @the moops pointed out, the average college basketball player is not nearly as good offensively as the average NBA player... it isn't remotely close, so comparing game scores doesn't make sense.

On top of that, it has already been pointed out that rules favor offense more heavily in the NBA, and you admit the difference is enormous. Yet you seem to ignore that difference by comparing college and NBA game scores.

It has also been pointed out that the games are longer. And there is a 24 second shot clock in the NBA, compared to a 30 second shot clock in college. Both of things drive more possessions and more points.

Most importantly, I challenge you to watch some of the ongoing NBA playoff games and report back that you still believe college basketball players are better defensively.

Your lack of common decency or ordinary respect has been prevalent in each of your replies.
You don't understand point counterpoint.
I'm going to put you on ignore.
Take care and best of luck to you

Disagree that any of my posts have been disrespectful with the possible exception of my response to you after you called me a 5 year old.

I have provided counterpoints to your comments, so your second comment here is wrong.

You probably won't see this given you say you are putting me on ignore, and that's fine with me.