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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (6 Viewers)

NFL2DF said:
Other than Ford confessing on live TV that she made it all up is there anything that could possibly convince you that Kavanaugh did not grind on her or hold her mouth closed?

Feel free to deflect.
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Someone else credibly confessing to doing it under oath.  If she’d seemed to not be credible under oath.  If Kavanaugh and others hadn’t ever met her. If Kavanaugh hadn’t reacted in his testimony like a spoiled trust fund kid who was experiencing potential consequences for the first time in his life.  Lots of things that didn’t happen. 

 
-OZ- said:
It would be interesting to see actual results instead of just individual opinions. 

I'm sure you know this, but many women are harsher on other women in these situations than men. 
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I work with all women.  Whether Cosby or Kavanaugh or any of these situations, it's mind-blowing how quick the "she's full of ####, why would she wait so long" thing comes out of their mouth. 

The why they wait so long thing is easily answered, of course. Um, you realize you think she's full of #### without even hearing what she has to say. Now, throw in that the alleged attacker is a very, very powerful man, and you can imagine why so many women don't immediately come forward. There's basically nothing to gain, and a whole lot to lose. In Ford's case, she waited until there was basically no other option.

I'm not naive enough to think we'll ever get rid of sexual violence. But man, it would just be nice if we could get to the point where most women feel like they can say what happened to them, and you know, somebody will at least listen.

 
NFL2DF said:
Ahh, so you are not concerned with facts, just opinions.

Surprised to hear that from a lawyer.

How would you expect someone falsely accused of sexual assault in an attempt to ruin his life for political purposes to react?

Sit there and take it on the chin?
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He wasn’t crying? :shrug:  

 
NFL2DF said:
Ahh, so you are not concerned with facts, just opinions.

Surprised to hear that from a lawyer.

How would you expect someone falsely accused of sexual assault in an attempt to ruin his life for political purposes to react?

Sit there and take it on the chin?
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That’s all a weird interpretation of what I said.  Of course I am concerned with opinions regarding the advice and consent portion of the constitution.  Opinions are required. Kind of like in court, when a judge renders an opinion based on facts. 

Opinions are created based on facts and logic. But opinions are kind of important in the law. I’m surprised that isn’t obvious. 

I would expect any judge to comport himself like a dignified professional at all times as he is required to do.  I would not expect him to cry and yell at members of the Senate. Ever. It is beneath the office. 

 
NFL2DF said:
How do they verify the # of beers drank on thirsty Thursday in 1982?
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They don't need to....just the perjury from this past week.  Add that to his 8th grade temperament and him clearly being comfortable with this as a political position and you've got all you need to move on to the next shmuck on Donny Two Scoops' list that was created for him.  I'd argue you don't even need to verify the perjury....again.  That's already been proven.

 
So the thinking is that Kavanaugh drank...AND had a  penis.  Therefore, he's guilty of her baseless accusation.

I seriously doubt that too many people drank more than I did in high school and in the USMC.
In high school I actually belonged to a sponsored club called Bone Keg Inc (BKI)....full page in the yearbook and all....and yeah...we drank like fish!

I never attacked a girl (drunk or sober) so it is not beyond my imagination to believe that there were others who could drink and not attack a girl. 

I know girls can (and have) lied about things like this...so it is not beyond my imagination that this girl is not being entirely truthful.

So...I guess it all comes down to Republican vs. Democrat and who cares whose lives get destroyed in the process....right?

I'll guarantee you one thing...as soon as Kavanaugh is put on the Bench....the Democrats will cast Ford on the trash heap and move along to block President Trump around the next corner.

 
Opie said:
You are taking this woman at her word and you have never even met her or knew that she even existed until Feinstein decided that you should.
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As unpalatable and victim-shaming as it might be ... when push comes to shove, I cannot say that I can personally verify Ford's account. While I think the general gist of her account is highly likely to be true, I can't express that as an absolute. And I have varying degrees of trust in the intermediaries who would aim to perform the verification and present conclusions to me -- while our major news sources are largely accurate in what they report, I believe what they present is most of the time curated (as is necessary when biased human beings make decisions on how to allocate limited news-reporting resources).

Can I draw a conclusion or act in some other way based on a high likelihood? Of course. At the same time, if -- if, I say -- it came out in 20 years that the 2018 Ford-Kavanaugh confirmation flap was largely invented based on a germ of an incident that actually DID happen, I wouldn't be fall-out-of-my-chair astonished. I'd be a little surprised at the chutzpah of whoever was behind the curtain (that would not be Ford), but I'd also feel like modern American politics had been leading up to such actions for decades before, anyhow.

 
squistion said:
That's exactly the argument people have been making. How perceptive.
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what about those of us who drank and have a penis...are we guilty of sexual assault too?  Are we just waiting for our accuser(s) to come forward?

 
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Opie said:
what about those of us who drank and have a penise...are we guilty of sexual assault too?  Are we just waiting for our accuser(s) to come forward?
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:sigh:

Probably the worst Straw Man argument I have seen in this thread. No one has come even remotely close to suggesting that.

 
Opie said:
No...her whole accusation is based on this.

What else has been produced to prove it happened?
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Yes, her whole accusation is based on the fact he drank and has a penis. :lol:

What else has been produced? Well, her testimony of him holding her down, covering her mouth and trying to rip off her clothes. Plus she put a witness in the room who doesn't want to publically testify (for obvious reasons as Judge probably knows he won't come across as credible).

 
adonis said:
Do you have any interest in a reasoned conversation about this?  
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Reasoned?

Do you have any interest in the fact that we live in a country where (so far), you are innocent until proven guilty.  It used to be a place where we are ruled by facts....not emotions.

As of now...there is not a single fact to show that Kavanaugh did anything like this.  There is not a single corroborating witness to back up this accusation...yet the Left (including those in this forum) who will accept Kavanaugh's guilt based solely on the fact that he drank and had a penis.....oh...and President Trump nominated him.

Other than that...the only thing that says he is guilty was the emotional, sympathetic testimony of a member of the opposite sex....and political party.

 
squistion said:
Yes, her whole accusation is based on the fact he drank and has a penis. :lol:
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awesome....what else was her testimony based on?  Her evidence?  Her witnesses?

Her "witness" (and friend) said that she doesn't remember this happening.  Hardly corroborating 

 
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Opie said:
would there be an accusation without it?
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Sorry, to clarify, are you asking if Ford would report to the Congress that Kavanaugh had held her down, put a hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming for help, and tried to removed her clothes if Kavanaugh were a lesbian woman? 

If that’s your question, I think there’s a pretty decent chance she would, yes. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Sorry, to clarify, are you asking if Ford would report to the Congress that Kavanaugh had held her down, put a hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming for help, and tried to removed her clothes if Kavanaugh were a lesbian woman? 

If that’s your question, I think there’s a pretty decent chance she would, yes. 
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So....we can expect the same if President Trump were to nominate a woman?

 
Opie said:
Reasoned?

Do you have any interest in the fact that we live in a country where (so far), you are innocent until proven guilty.  It used to be a place where we are ruled by facts....not emotions.

As of now...there is not a single fact to show that Kavanaugh did anything like this.  There is not a single corroborating witness to back up this accusation...yet the Left (including those in this forum) who will accept Kavanaugh's guilt based solely on the fact that he drank and had a penis.....oh...and President Trump nominated him.

Other than that...the only thing that says he is guilty was the emotional, sympathetic testimony of a member of the opposite sex....and political party.
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No matter how many times you mischaracterize what people are saying, it doesn't make this Straw Man argument any better and you repeatedly parroting of it amounts to bad fishing or trolling IMO. I will let others continue to argue this point with you.

 
Opie said:
Reasoned?

Do you have any interest in the fact that we live in a country where (so far), you are innocent until proven guilty.  It used to be a place where we are ruled by facts....not emotions.

As of now...there is not a single fact to show that Kavanaugh did anything like this.  There is not a single corroborating witness to back up this accusation...yet the Left (including those in this forum) who will accept Kavanaugh's guilt based solely on the fact that he drank and had a penis.....oh...and President Trump nominated him.

Other than that...the only thing that says he is guilty was the emotional, sympathetic testimony of a member of the opposite sex....and political party.
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Fact: He lied about the definitions of several words, including devils triangle, boofing, and his explanations about yearbook entries.

Say all you want to about the accusations, his penis, a burden of proof that's' not necessary for what's essentially a job interview and not a criminal trial.

The bottom line is that he lied, under oath, in order to protect his candidacy and prevent further questions into his behavior as a youth as it relates to sex and drinking.

That should be disqualifying.

I am different than others as it relates to Kavanaugh.  I imagine he's done a lot of great things over his life, helped a ton of people, women especially.  I bet he's unlikely to engage in the type of behavior he likely did in high school and college after he got married and graduated.  He's probably been close to a model citizen for decades.

But that doesn't excuse lying under oath, in order to get on the Supreme Court.  There are plenty of other candidates out there who wouldn't have to do this.  

I have a high standard for the quality of person I want having a lifetime appointment to the highest court in our land.  Why don't you?

 
Opie said:
....and if she didn't?

She'll have to prove the "non-event"?
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If someone comes forward and says she did, does so credibly, and testifies under oath, I think it would be unwise for her to flail and shout at Senators like a high school kid who got caught by his parents “holding weed for a friend.”

 
Opie said:
Reasoned?

Do you have any interest in the fact that we live in a country where (so far), you are innocent until proven guilty.  It used to be a place where we are ruled by facts....not emotions.

As of now...there is not a single fact to show that Kavanaugh did anything like this.  There is not a single corroborating witness to back up this accusation...yet the Left (including those in this forum) who will accept Kavanaugh's guilt based solely on the fact that he drank and had a penis.....oh...and President Trump nominated him.

Other than that...the only thing that says he is guilty was the emotional, sympathetic testimony of a member of the opposite sex....and political party.
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It's cute when the "Lock her up! Lock her up!" types say things like this.  

 
I am going to laugh my ### off if the Left is successful in blocking Kavanaugh and, for their efforts, they get Amy Coney Barrett  

Kinda like the "don't get rid of Trump or we get Pence"?

rack 'em up!

 
Opie said:
I am going to laugh my ### off if the Left is successful in blocking Kavanaugh and, for their efforts, they get Amy Coney Barrett  

Kinda like the "don't get rid of Trump or we get Pence"?

rack 'em up!
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It's all a game right...sit back, watch it, make comments...laugh.

Team conservative vs team liberal...amiright?  All about being entertaining and provoking those you disagree with.

What a time to be a troll in this country.

 
Opie said:
Doug B said:
While I think the general gist of her account is highly likely to be true
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....based on the fact that he drank....AND had a penis?
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No. I agree with a take Maurile posted yesterday about how something did happen, but Ford and Kavanaugh had hugely different take-aways and memories of a common event.

EDIT: I simultaneously agree with Ditkaless Wonders that calling the seed incident "attempted rape" is an exaggeration from a third-party perspective. However, I also believe that Ford truly believed, in the moment, that Kavanaugh was close to proceeding with forcible rape. And that in-the-moment memory has both informed and colored her perception of the event ever since.

 
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adonis said:
It's all a game right...sit back, watch it, make comments...laugh.

Team conservative vs team liberal...amiright?  All about being entertaining and provoking those you disagree with.

What a time to be a troll in this country.
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If you call "pointing out the flaws" as "provoking"....then ....yes.

 
adonis said:
It's all a game right...sit back, watch it, make comments...laugh.

Team conservative vs team liberal...amiright?  All about being entertaining and provoking those you disagree with.

What a time to be a troll in this country.
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Angry white guy has the momentum right now and thinks the game is theirs, but history has shown time and time again that conservatives are left in the dust and forced by society to move the goalposts to what they're trying to conserve.  

 
Opie said:
I am going to laugh my ### off if the Left is successful in blocking Kavanaugh and, for their efforts, they get Amy Coney Barrett  

Kinda like the "don't get rid of Trump or we get Pence"?

rack 'em up!
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When even Kanye can see their actions are crazy, things have gone way too far.  

 
Mr. Ham said:
Which opens the door, despite whatever limits the Adminstration tries to impose, for FBI to follow any lead that arises accordingly, including talking to Swetnick or anyone she identifies as a witness or victim.  
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My original post was in error, FBI will not be interviewing Swetnick.

 
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